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 Topic: Qur'anic studies today

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  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9930 - February 07, 2021, 09:22 AM


    Quote
    verse 17.1.......   Glory be to Him Who made His servant to go on a night from the Sacred Mosque to the remote mosque of which We have blessed the precincts, so that We may show to him some of Our signs; surely He is the Hearing, the Seeing.



    So question  to you on that Miller's pub dear Altara., 

    That verse may be related originally to that  Hijazi Poetry(BEFORE IT GOT IN TO SANA MANSUCRIPTS) but do you really think it has to do with those Yemeni Inscriptions??  Could the author of that chapter 17 write that verse in some sort of poem before manuscripts were transported to Yemen Sana mosque??

    The importance lies in the fact of the slowly emergence of the South Arabian dimension concerning certain Quranic vocabulary. What is this South Arabian dimension? The Yemeni one. What is Yemen at this time? Robin has written many papers about it. Academia is your friend.

    what does that   "South Arabian dimension in   Quranic vocabulary  "   means??   

    You mean to say in that verse.,  that word ..... "Isrā" ...... got imported in to Quran from the  rock inscriptions that were there in southern   Arabia/Yemen   much before the birth Quranic manuscripts??

    that is very much possible ., but i was looking that Miller paper w,r,t  early Islamic expeditions during the time of Prophet of Islam .. Muhammad (PBUH)..

    please see the Appendices  at the end of that publication on expeditions/expansion of Islam

    Quote
    1a: Muhammad's Deputised Military Expeditions According to al-Wāqidī

    1b: Muhammad's Deputised Expeditions According to Ibn Hishām/Ibn Isḥāq

    1c: Muhammad's Deputised Expeditions According to Khalīfa b. al-Khayyāṭ


    DO YOU BELIEVE IN THOSE EXPEDTIONS TO EXPAND ISLAM DURING THE TIME OF PROPHET OF ISLAM?? .. did they really occur during Prophet of Islam time??

    *****************************************************************
    Quote
    http://dasi.cnr.it/index.php?id=42&prjId=1&corId=0&colId=0&navId=0

     
    Quote
    Subhana allathee asra biAAabdihi laylan mina almasjidi alharami ila almasjidi alaqsa allathee barakna hawlahu linuriyahu min ayatina innahu huwa alssameeAAu albaseeru

     

    (Clicky for piccy!)


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9931 - February 07, 2021, 10:38 AM

    Altara - are you looking at this expansion into central Arabia as the source of South Arabian influence on Quranic vocabulary?


    Not at an expansion, but at the Yemen itself and to the triangle it forms with Palestine and Iraq where common points are manifold. Robin has written many papers about Yemen.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9932 - February 07, 2021, 07:46 PM

    Miller and 17:1

    Interesting that Miller lets go of the Sira to reread 17:1 But he doesn't let got of the rest of the non proven tradition of Mecca and Medina and the Qurash and the rest...

    Connection with Yemen:
    Why might not be the main connection be the port  of Ayla , gate of the Hijaz nd the Levant? No need to imagine Abraha's influence continuing into to 7th C in conflict with hypothetical Qurash. Just some Yemenite traders and learned men mixing with North Arabians giving inspiration to the Quranic author might be explanation enough for 'isra'?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9933 - February 08, 2021, 01:49 PM

    Ian D. Morris - Who 'Arabised' the Late Antique State?

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ry5uqdzr468ex55/Who%20‘Arabised’%20the%20Late%20Antique%20State%20%28Do%20not%20circulate%29.docx?dl=0
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9934 - February 08, 2021, 02:10 PM


    in that   Morris  says

    Quote
    I’m a specialist in early Muslim history, roughly 600–850, which includes the great Arabian conquests, the foundations of classical Islamic religion, and the transitionfrom a militarised society ........................


    well in that history of Arabia between 600-850... I am more interested in the history of Arabia between the years 600 to  632....     for me that early 7th Century (600-632) C.E. Islam is far more important than rest of Islam....  and one can  see the time line of Islamic history at the resource center of this very forum Chronological History of Islam

    did Ian D. Morris  say /write/construct anything on the history of Islam  during that time??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9935 - February 08, 2021, 02:19 PM

    Miller and 17:1

    Interesting that Miller lets go of the Sira to reread 17:1 But he doesn't let got of the rest of the non proven tradition of Mecca and Medina and the Qurash and the rest...

    Connection with Yemen:
    Why might not be the main connection be the port  of Ayla , gate of the Hijaz nd the Levant? No need to imagine Abraha's influence continuing into to 7th C in conflict with hypothetical Qurash. Just some Yemenite traders and learned men mixing with North Arabians giving inspiration to the Quranic author might be explanation enough for 'isra'?

    1/ Yes of course. All of this ( non proven tradition of Mecca and Medina and the Qurash and the rest... )has to be set aside.
    2/ There is no Abraha campaign to Mecca since there is no "Mecca".
    3/ Why these guys would have inspiring the Quranic author/texts? What are the ideas of the Quran?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9936 - February 08, 2021, 03:09 PM

    well sometimes I wonder some of these academics who are working with Quran and trying to frame early Islamic history., do they read Quran properly?  or they just take some translation of a verse from some one and write publication for  their ACEDAMIC CAREER ??

    I like Miller pub for some other reason.. FOR EARLY ISLAMCI EXPEDITIONS.. but as far as this 17:1 verse concerned ..  as Prophet Night journey on a good looking Horsey is concerned.,   It is nonsense...,

     in the abstract Miller  says

    Quote
    Abstract:

    The term isrāʾ, based on the first verse of sūra 17, is typically rendered as ‘Night Journey’. There is little compelling evidence that this was the original meaning of the Qur'anic text, and medieval lexicographers and exegetes preserved a number of alternative meanings, such as that asrā was a denominal verb meaning ‘to travel through the uplands (al-sarāh)’. Another explanation is that asrā is a denominal verb of the noun sariyya (pl. sarāyā), a military expedition. By drawing on early historiographical descriptions of sarāyā and South Arabian inscriptions, which give evidence that the word sariyya is of Sabaic origin, the Qur'anic meaning of asrā was evidently something like ‘to send on a royal expedition’. Early Islamic Arabic poetic texts also offer extremely compelling evidence that the first Muslims were familiar with some of the key concepts of South Arabian royal authority as they appear in Sabaic inscriptions.


    why even say that??

    does this verse has word "Journey" in it??

     or these academics  make it out as "night journey" by   just copy/pasting some one's tafsir??

    I say that verse entered in to Quran as a part of some earlier story that was floating around northern Arabia... from which these Quranic authors scripted /scribbled it in a very cryptic way     "travelling in night"  turns    in to NIGHT JOURENY and then early Muslims wrote/spread a children story  and   construct it as Prophet travelling to heavens on some womanly looking hotsie horsie....  FOOOLS

    https://publicdomainreview.org/essay/out-of-their-love-they-made-it-a-visual-history-of-buraq



    MOCK THE FOOLS AND MOVE ON..  for children it is a nice story ., I liked it and I still like it., and I can tell that story to children

    My problem with that verse and that story is not in  telling such beautiful Islamic stories to children., but BUT  Brainless fools  and FUCKING MULLAH MORONS IN MOSQUES spreading it to brain wash young 18 year olds and  adults ..,    and  and on top of it these  early Islamic academic  historians from west running around that verse and that story to write publications for their career .,  That is indeed a pity

    garbage in garbage out  ..anyways.. .. where is it??

    Quote
    Verse 17:1......
     
    سُبْحَانَ الَّذِي أَسْرَىٰ بِعَبْدِهِ لَيْلًا مِّنَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ إِلَى الْمَسْجِدِ الْأَقْصَى الَّذِي بَارَكْنَا حَوْلَهُ لِنُرِيَهُ مِنْ آيَاتِنَا ۚ إِنَّهُ هُوَ السَّمِيعُ الْبَصِيرُ


    again where is the word "JOURNEY " in it??

    https://alrashidmosque.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/The-Life-of-The-Prophet-Muhammad.pdf

    Yap.. that link is for academics ....   they can read more  stories and publish some more junk....

    Thanks to Internet. Cloud storage.. computer gods  .. we don't need to cut the tree to print such publications

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9937 - February 08, 2021, 03:10 PM

    Thread: https://twitter.com/PhDniX/status/1358376447035998210
    Quote
    Yesterday I gave an introduction on Nabataean Arabic and Old Hijazi and the Quran Arabic. Now, let's look at some of the linguistic features that both connect and differentiate these ancient dialects form one another!

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9938 - February 08, 2021, 05:03 PM

    in that   Morris  says

    well in that history of Arabia between 600-850... I am more interested in the history of Arabia between the years 600 to  632....     for me that early 7th Century (600-632) C.E. Islam is far more important than rest of Islam....  and one can  see the time line of Islamic history at the resource center of this very forum Chronological History of Islam

    did Ian D. Morris  say /write/construct anything on the history of Islam  during that time??


    I don't think so. The problem is always what sources are you going to use to write the history.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9939 - February 08, 2021, 05:26 PM

    Talking of sources...

    Podcast: https://levantinipod.com/episodes/episode-39-envisioning-islam
    Quote
    Envisioning Islam: Syriac Christians and the Early Muslim World

    Michael Philip Penn is a professor of religious studies at Stanford University and the author of Envisioning Islam: Syriac Christians and the Early Muslim World as well as the book When Christians First Met Muslims. Professor Penn’s book and research examine Syriac sources to better understand how Christians in the Middle East perceived the early Muslims and in doing so challenge some widespread cultural assumptions about early Christian-Muslim relations. 

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9940 - February 12, 2021, 06:10 PM

    Nathaniel Miller - Seasonal Poetics: The Dry Season and Autumn Rains among Pre-Islamic Najdi and Hijazi Tribes

    https://www.academia.edu/29277725/Tribal_Poetics_in_Early_Arabic_Culture_The_Case_of_of_Ashʿār_al_Hudhaliyyīn
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9941 - February 13, 2021, 10:17 AM

    Nathaniel Miller - Seasonal Poetics: The Dry Season and Autumn Rains among Pre-Islamic Najdi and Hijazi Tribes, p.410.
    A skeptical attitude towards our sources is common among historians of early Islam, but to a large extent this comes of ignoring the available texts in the quest to find out what was “pre-Islamic” or “Jāhilī” about early Arabs. It seems quite certain that if we could travel back in time and ask a Hudhalī tribesperson who they were, they would tell us that although their language was Arabic, their people were some clan within the tribe of Hudhayl, they summered in such-and-such a valley and wintered in such-and-such a mountain near Mecca, and that moreover, they inhabited the Ḥijāz.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9942 - February 14, 2021, 04:07 PM

    .................................
    A skeptical attitude towards our sources is common among historians of early Islam, but to a large extent this comes of ignoring the available texts in the quest to find out what was “pre-Islamic” or “Jāhilī” about early Arabs.........................

    I consider  “pre-Islamic” or “Jāhilī” .... description of Arabs of that time is nonsense., it is THE WORST LIE IN  ISLAM  THAT MUSLIM SCOUNDRLES OF EARLY TIMES WHO CONVERTED IN TO ISLAM PROPOGATED ..

    The problem with "MANUFACTURED HISTORY" of early times is., it is hard to figure out the true history from story tellers of the past.,     and it is much worse when it comes to faiths/religious historicity  irrespective of the religion
    Quote


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9943 - February 15, 2021, 10:36 AM

    Nathaniel Miller - Seasonal Poetics: The Dry Season and Autumn Rains among Pre-Islamic Najdi and Hijazi Tribes, p.410.
    A skeptical attitude towards our sources is common among historians of early Islam, but to a large extent this comes of ignoring the available texts in the quest to find out what was “pre-Islamic” or “Jāhilī” about early Arabs..............


    so dear Altara ., I casually read through the first 33 pages of that Nathaniel Miller  Ph. D. Thesis

    Do you trust such analysis of  Pre/early Islamic history /Poetry of that region  and its connection to Quranic Muhammad?? 

    So  Miller writes .. this story of Prophet of  Islam.,   starts at PAGE 8 of his thesis   .. and writes some 30 pages on  Prophet of Islam
    Quote
    ....In the classical genealogical works, the ancestor of the tribe, Hudhayl ibn Mudrikah ibn Ilyās ibn Muḍar ibn Nizār ibnMaʿadd ibn ʿAdnān, was said to be an uncle of Kinānah, the parent tribe of Quraysh, the   Prophet Muammad’s tribe. The Prophet himself was said to be related to Hudhayl via acouple of distant maternal great grandmothers.  Hudhayl were not, however, part of theḤums,the Amphictyonic League-like confederation of tribes, including Quraysh, associated with Mecca’s sacred rituals...

    ..

    please read 1st 33 pages..... Question is  about those stories of in those 33 pages...... should we trust  such stories and their connection to    "REAL HISORY OF PROPHET OF ISLAM'S LIFE" .. The Quranic Muhammad??  or even the word "Muhammad" that I see in some 4 verses of Quran??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9944 - February 15, 2021, 02:24 PM

    As a historian I do not trust  any retro projected historical sources. I trust with a critical examination and prudence contemporary and ancient sources. Moreover, Miller is aware of this, that is why I quoted it.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9945 - February 17, 2021, 11:58 PM

    Peter Webb - The Spread of Islam in Arabia: Expressing Conversion in Poetry

    https://www.academia.edu/45125931/The_Spread_of_Islam_in_Arabia_Expressing_Conversion_in_Poetry
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9946 - February 19, 2021, 04:51 PM

    Philip Wood - Christianity in the Arabian Peninsula

    https://www.academia.edu/42289041/Draft_Christianity_in_the_Arabian_Peninsula
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9947 - February 19, 2021, 08:47 PM

    Ahmad Al-Jallad - An Invocation to Jesus in a Safaitic Inscription?
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=165&v=Pc6Rv8d63hE&feature=youtu.be
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9948 - February 20, 2021, 01:19 AM

    Yes important discovery and interesting lecture .
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9949 - February 20, 2021, 11:16 PM

    Yes important discovery and interesting lecture .

    Ahmad already published that stuff in various journals... is it  not  .. ??  Why is it  so interesting about that  lecture specially w.r.t Quranic scripts dear Altara ?? that safaitic inscriptions language /linguistic appears to be far far away from Quranic scripts such as  we see in  sana manuscripts ..

    Quote

     

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9950 - February 21, 2021, 01:25 PM

    1/No he did not.
    2/ Nothing regarding Quranic script as such. But it is the first mention of "'Isa" which is the same word used than in the Quranic texts.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9951 - February 21, 2021, 06:12 PM

    There is at the moment a debate on twitter mainly between Dr. Javad T. Hashmi and Shadi Hamid, but people like Dr. Khalil Andani and even Sean Anthony take part.  The start of the debate was a lecture by Hamid about why Islam is exceptional. They do not agree on how the Muslims has looked upon the Quran:
    Quote from Andani:
     "to ensure I don’t misrepresent you (Hamid), here are parts of the book where you make descriptive claim re Muslim beliefs in the Quran as “God’s actual direct & literal speech” & that this makes Islam exceptional. What follows are my academic disagreements with you (thread)"
    https://twitter.com/KhalilAndani/status/1363534647565705217?s=20
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9952 - February 21, 2021, 06:19 PM

    Dr. Javad T Hashmi:

    "Shadi Hamid of Brookings recently gave a talk at Harvard called "Islamic Exceptionalism." As a PhD candidate in the Study of Religion at said university, I attended this talk ready to give my input & pushback. Not called upon to respond, I decided to make a short video response. Once I got going, the response turned out to be much longer than I anticipated, since I had been taking notes during Shadi's talk. Here is my video response:"
    https://twitter.com/DrJavadTHashmi/status/1363264079629078531?s=20
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9953 - February 21, 2021, 08:57 PM

    Quote
    2/ Nothing regarding Quranic script as such. But it is the first mention of "'Isa" which is the same word used than in the Quranic texts.


    There are 36 instances of Isa being used. But AJ's find is the first to be referring to Jesus.

    https://twitter.com/mattcrotts/status/1128350207173955591?s=20
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9954 - February 22, 2021, 06:52 AM

    There are 36 instances of Isa being used. But AJ's find is the first to be referring to Jesus.

    https://twitter.com/mattcrotts/status/1128350207173955591?s=20

    let me add this map here which comes from that mundi twitter link



    Quote
    @Politico_view Dr Al-Jallad was kind enough to correct me. 's1y is the cognate to Isa. This updated map shows the distribution of the 36 finds.

    There are 36 documented Safaitic inscriptions containing the name ʿs1y, found in about 8 sites in Northern Arabia. This name is the Safaitic cognate to the Qur'anic ʿīsà. The Safaitic script was used around the 1st century BCE to 4th century CE.


    what does that mean...?? what do we make out of it ,,, ?? some guy .. some folks.... carved rocks around that vast area  with these  letters   ??....s1y.... which means  ..Isa.....??  and then what do we do with it??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9955 - February 22, 2021, 03:02 PM

    Yeez,

    It shows in what area the name Isaa is found.
    Probably the name was not limited to the desert where the Safaitic writers roamed, it was probably a known (common) name in the entire North of Arabia.
    The Quranic author probably got his inspiration in that area. Would that be a correct statement?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9956 - February 22, 2021, 03:33 PM

    Yeez,

    It shows in what area the name Isaa is found. Probably the name was not limited to the desert where the Safaitic writers roamed, it was probably a known (common) name in the entire North of Arabia.

    that is fine that may be true dear mundi

    Quote
    The Quranic author probably got his inspiration in that area. Would that be a correct statement?

     
    NO GOD! PLEASE NO!!! NOOOOOOOOOO    Cheesy Cheesy

    So what we do with these prophets of quran  dear mundi?? NO ROCKS??

    Adam, Idris , Nuh, Hud ,  Saleh, Lut, Ibrahim, Ismail, Ishaq, Yaqub, Yusuf, Shu'aib , Ayyub , Dhulkifl , Musa , Harun , Dawud, Sulayman , Ilyas , Alyasa , Yunus, Zakariya, Yahya ...... and Muhammad....

    WHY NO ROCKS ON THEM??  what is so good about Isa  that is not good about other guys??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9957 - February 22, 2021, 03:41 PM

    Yeez,

    It seems highly improbable that the Quranic author got his inspiration in the desert where these Safaitic rocks are found. But the fact that Isa is inscribed in those graffiti, makes it likely that the name existed in the cities and cultural centers of that area. No?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9958 - February 22, 2021, 03:49 PM

    Yeez,

    It seems highly improbable that the Quranic author got his inspiration in the desert where these Safaitic rocks are found.

    Oh I will agree with that and this ., did you click the mem link ....lol...
    Quote
    But the fact that Isa is inscribed in those graffiti, makes it likely that the name existed in the cities and cultural centers of that area. No?

    yes.. absolutely  ..  there is NO reason not to believe that  .. atleast three ..four hundred years went by  between rock inscriptions and Isa.. IF "ISA" WAS JESUS  and Jesus story was true..

    interesting investigation will be .. dating those inscriptions .. was any of them got inscribed in  BC??  before Christ ...Not after Christ

    on that Isa.  word let me watch this again

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ja9_dq5Wa0
     
    That is Tabitha  Gill  A nurse ..... LOOK AT THOSE FUCKING ROGUES that is life in land of pure

    let me hear  the same Thabitha 

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR5UIKNXhwY

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9959 - February 25, 2021, 10:41 AM

    Peter Webb - Review of Brian Ulrich: Arabs in the Early Islamic Empire: Exploring al-Azd Tribal Identity

    https://www.academia.edu/43808806/Reivew_of_Brian_Ulrich_Arabs_in_the_Early_Islamic_Empire_Exploring_al_Azd_Tribal_Identity
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