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Theme Changer

 Topic: A Campaign To Improve Image Of Islam - "Inspired by Mohammad"

 (Read 41033 times)
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  • Re: Campaign Launched To Improve Image Of Islam
     Reply #210 - June 15, 2010, 12:02 PM
    Quote from: Hassan
    Personally of course it baffles me how people can call a circle a square (which is how I see it), but I know how important religion is to people's lives (and I also recognise the benefits they get from religion) and so I think Muslims will reform Islam until we are at the stage when the Hadith is all but dumped and Qur'an is not seen as an infallible - and traditionalists are a tiny loony fringe. We are too close to events right now to say for sure either way of course - but never underestimate human will.

    You would know the issues better than I but I don't rule out new information coming to light that casts the original texts in a new light.  Ancient texts communicated to distant people are often not immediately accessible to us now.  This is particularly true when free discussion is so limited.  Therefore I would find it hard to conclude now whether we really have a circle or a square.

    Personally, if there is no text left that is considered reliable, I would expect the whole thing to die.  I think that's the direction liberal Christianity is taking - most of the growth seems to be among those who think that the Christian texts are reliable.
  • Re: Campaign Launched To Improve Image Of Islam
     Reply #211 - June 15, 2010, 12:07 PM
    Quote from: Iblis on June 15, 2010, 11:39 AM
    Uh, so what?

    Point is, as much as I dislike their beliefs I'm not going protest them building a church.


    I have just had a quick look at extracts from the book of mormon and have to say that a charge of racism could be made to stick against it in a court of law - its position as a "religion" notwithstanding. You don't, however, have a major issue with them building a church because you don't see them as a serious threat - which, unlike Islam, they haven't routinely proven themselves to be.
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Campaign Launched To Improve Image Of Islam
     Reply #212 - June 15, 2010, 12:29 PM
    Quote from: DH on June 15, 2010, 11:40 AM
    And what do you see as my "personal agenda"?


    Apparently living up to the initials of your name (and it's not Designated Hitter), by continuing to be a boring, broken record coming to an ex-Muslim site and trying to convince everyone that all Muslims constitute a threat, and that the state must take authoritarian, discriminatory measures accordingly.
    fuck you
  • Re: Campaign Launched To Improve Image Of Islam
     Reply #213 - June 15, 2010, 12:34 PM
    What does it stand for?

    Dildo Hamburger?
  • Re: Campaign Launched To Improve Image Of Islam
     Reply #214 - June 15, 2010, 12:44 PM
    Quote from: sparky on June 15, 2010, 07:28 AM
    I didn't say it wasn't ok for muslims.  Muslims can, and do, interpret their own scriptures as they want.  Of course it helps if they live in Western countries like Edip Yuksel.  Otherwise they often end up dead.

    Often? really?
    In Iraq, Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon.... ect there are bars, liquor stores, discos, night clubs where belly dancers dance. There are actors and musicians and huge entertainment corporations.
    All these people are following their own interpretation of the Quran or ignoring it all together yet they didn't end up end dead. In fact the governments tax all of these Haram products and services.
    The Middle East and other Muslim countries generally have much more conservative societies than non-Muslim countries. Overall it is pretty shitty for a liberal to live there. No doubt about that. But it's not hell. And there is no Inquisition.


    Quote from: DH on June 15, 2010, 09:34 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on June 15, 2010, 09:26 AM
    I don't mind if they think that.

    So you'd support UK non-Muslims campaigning against  mosques being built in their neighborhoods for no other reason than they don't want a place of worship of such an iredeemably nasty religion anywhere near their homes? Would you?

    I'm with Os on this one. If 90% of Brits think that Islam is a nasty religion, I don't mind. They're entitled to their opinion. What I do mind is if they acted on their opinions in a way that infringes of the religious freedoms of Muslims.
    Just like I think the BNP and its ideology is nasty and racist but I'm not gonna riot to demand banning it. As a matter of fact I was dismayed by the UAF rallies against Griffin's appearance on question time.
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."



    Quote from: DH on June 15, 2010, 10:55 AM
    Quote from: Iblis
    I personally believe in taking poops on BNP'ers heads,

    Why?

    Please read my post below and reply point by point.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=9690.msg250285#msg250285
  • Re: Campaign Launched To Improve Image Of Islam
     Reply #215 - June 15, 2010, 01:28 PM
    <<<<< IA mate don't bother. I don't.
  • Re: Campaign Launched To Improve Image Of Islam
     Reply #216 - June 16, 2010, 12:17 AM
    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist
    Often? really?
    In Iraq, Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon.... ect there are bars, liquor stores, discos, night clubs where belly dancers dance. There are actors and musicians and huge entertainment corporations.
    All these people are following their own interpretation of the Quran or ignoring it all together yet they didn't end up end dead. In fact the governments tax all of these Haram products and services.
    The Middle East and other Muslim countries generally have much more conservative societies than non-Muslim countries. Overall it is pretty shitty for a liberal to live there. No doubt about that. But it's not hell. And there is no Inquisition.

    1.  Ignoring the Quran and re-interpreting it are not the same thing.  One represents little threat to mainstream Islam, the other potentially does.
    2.  I was not referring to solely to government responses but also to the responses of individual fundamentalist muslims or muslim groups.  Edip Yuksel himself felt he had to leave Turkey, even given its secular government, when his views turned against the conservative Islam that he had previously outspokenly supported.  Note that this was not the case when he had previously spoken against the government.

    When I say 'often', I am talking about those people who vociferously challenge the mainstream interpretation of Islam within their countries, like Yuksel has done.

    I didn't say living in a muslim country was hell.  I live in one now and am pretty happy here (even though there are few bars or belly dancers).  I was talking about the danger to those who express significant challenges to mainstream understandings of Islam in muslim majority countries - particularly by those who have previously been part of that mainstream.

    Suppose a person was known as a conservative muslim and went on tv in one of the countries you mentioned and argued solely from the Quran that Jesus was the word of God sent to die for mankind.  Would my life be in danger?
  • Re: Campaign Launched To Improve Image Of Islam
     Reply #217 - June 16, 2010, 12:59 AM
    Quote from: "Q-Man
    Apparently living up to the initials of your name (and it's not Designated Hitter), by continuing to be a boring, broken record coming to an ex-Muslim site and trying to convince everyone that all Muslims constitute a threat,


    The Muslim "faith communities" in the west have repeatedly proved themselves to be far more of a threat to western societies than any other indigenous or foreign religion. The larger these communities are the more of a threat they have shown themselves to pose. In countries where Muslims are the majority the human rights of non-Muslims, like the Coptic Christians, are routinely trampled on with little or protection from the state at best or outright state persecution where states are run on avowedly "Islamic" lines". These are facts whether you want to acknowledge them or not.

    Quote
    and that the state must take authoritarian, discriminatory measures accordingly.


    Unlike you, my primary concern is the freedom and physical safety of my fellow non-Muslims  not pursuing some pseudo-anti-racist cause.
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Campaign Launched To Improve Image Of Islam
     Reply #218 - June 16, 2010, 01:09 AM
    Quote from: DH on June 16, 2010, 12:59 AM
    The Muslim "faith communities" in the west have repeatedly proved themselves to be far more of a threat to western societies than any other indigenous or foreign religion. The larger these communities are the more of a threat they have shown themselves to pose. In countries where Muslims are the majority the human rights of non-Muslims, like the Coptic Christians, are routinely trampled on with little or protection from the state at best or outright state persecution where states are run on avowedly "Islamic" lines". These are facts whether you want to acknowledge them or not.


    Yes, we get it. Like I said, broken record. You might as well copy and paste the same shit over and over again.

    Quote
    Unlike you, my primary concern is the freedom and physical safety of my fellow non-Muslims


    No it's not. Otherwise you wouldn't be in favor of handing the state sweeping powers that could just as easily be used against "your fellow non-Muslims" as against Muslims. Giving the state authoritarian powers to discriminate against one group rarely ends with that one group. Given that you think Enver Hoxha did a bang-up job suppressing Islam, it's doubtful your concept of "freedom" is very similar to anyone else's around here.

    The same arguments were used for suppressing Communism in Germany, Italy, Greece, Latin America and elsewhere, but it didn't end with the Communists, now did it? You don't give a flying fuck about freedom. You're full of fear and hate. You're a scared child who wants Big Brother to protect you from the Muslim bogeyman. What a pussy.
    fuck you
  • Re: Campaign Launched To Improve Image Of Islam
     Reply #219 - June 16, 2010, 02:56 AM
    ^^^ I would land on a grenade for this man.
  • Re: Campaign Launched To Improve Image Of Islam
     Reply #220 - June 16, 2010, 07:17 PM
    DH,

    I'm still waiting for your reply regarding the BNP.


    Sparky,

    Thanks for clearing that up.

    Quote from: sparky on June 16, 2010, 12:17 AM
    Suppose a person was known as a conservative muslim and went on tv in one of the countries you mentioned and argued solely from the Quran that Jesus was the word of God sent to die for mankind.  Would my life be in danger?

    It depends on the country and the channel. But I don't think there will imminent danger. I might be wrong.
  • Re: Campaign Launched To Improve Image Of Islam
     Reply #221 - June 16, 2010, 08:45 PM
    Did I miss the party? Grunching but I am going to guess that someone suggested that authoritarian  Muslims are a threat to people and so proactively we should be authoritarian and violent towards them.  If the fundamentalists do it it's good enough for us.. or something along those lines.  
    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Campaign Launched To Improve Image Of Islam
     Reply #222 - June 16, 2010, 09:16 PM
    Just look through DH's posts. He's been here for a while, goes away for a while then drops by every few weeks or months to post on the same thread for a week or two about the same stuff he always posts about, then goes away again for a while. Consistent and boring pattern, almost robot-like. Most of his posts are pretty much interchangeable in terms of the point he is making-- very good at what political campaign staffers call "staying on message". Unfortunately for him, no one here much likes him, nor do they agree with his political perspective, so his message is lost on people here.
    fuck you
  • Re: Campaign Launched To Improve Image Of Islam
     Reply #223 - June 16, 2010, 09:50 PM
    ^^ Yeah. He's even defending the BNP.
  • Re: Campaign Launched To Improve Image Of Islam
     Reply #224 - June 17, 2010, 12:54 AM
    Quote from: Q-man
    Yes, we get it. Like I said, broken record. You might as well copy and paste the same shit over and over again.


    The same repeated non-arguments of course warrant the same repeated response. Now which of my above statements do you regard as "shit"?:

    1) The Muslim "faith communities" in the west have repeatedly proved themselves to be far more of a threat to western societies than any other indigenous or foreign religion.

    2) The larger these communities are the more of a threat they have shown themselves to pose.

    3) In countries where Muslims are the majority the human rights of non-Muslims, like the Coptic Christians, are routinely trampled on with little or protection from the state at best or outright state persecution where states are run on avowedly "Islamic" lines".

    Which do you disagree with: 1,2,3 or all or none?


    Quote
    No it's not. Otherwise you wouldn't be in favor of handing the state sweeping powers that could just as easily be used against "your fellow non-Muslims" as against Muslims.


    I fail to see how disallowing further mosque building could be "used against" other groups like Christians - any more than Saudi Arabia's ban on all non-Muslim religions in that country could be "used against" Islam. Perhaps you could explain.

    Quote
    The same arguments were used for suppressing Communism in Germany, Italy, Greece, Latin America and elsewhere, but it didn't end with the Communists, now did it?


    Specious comparison.

    Quote
    You're a scared child who wants Big Brother to protect you from the Muslim bogeyman.


    The trouble is the Muslim isn't a "bogeyman". The Muslim has  proved himself to be a very real threat to the freedom and physical well being of those he categorizes as "The Other" - to borrow a phrase from that groveling dhimmi idiot Edward Said.

    Quote
    What a pussy.


    Which at the end of the day pretty well sums up your "arguments" in favor of treating Islam in the west as "just another religion" - rather than the aggressive foreign colonialist entity that it is - which should be permitted to grow and spread its tentacles into western societies unchecked.
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Campaign Launched To Improve Image Of Islam
     Reply #225 - June 17, 2010, 01:04 AM
    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."


    So if a BNP member called a black man a "nigger" and ended up having the crap beaten out of him, you'd jump in and protect him would you?
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Campaign Launched To Improve Image Of Islam
     Reply #226 - June 17, 2010, 01:12 AM
    Quote from: DH on June 17, 2010, 12:54 AM
    The same repeated non-arguments of course warrant the same repeated response. Now which of my above statements do you regard as "shit"?:

    1) The Muslim "faith communities" in the west have repeatedly proved themselves to be far more of a threat to western societies than any other indigenous or foreign religion.

    2) The larger these communities are the more of a threat they have shown themselves to pose.

    3) In countries where Muslims are the majority the human rights of non-Muslims, like the Coptic Christians, are routinely trampled on with little or protection from the state at best or outright state persecution where states are run on avowedly "Islamic" lines".

    Which do you disagree with: 1,2,3 or all?


    I fail to see how disallowing further mosque building could be "used against" other groups like Christians - any more than Saudi Arabia's ban on all non-Muslim religions in that country could be "used against" Islam. Perhaps you could explain.

    Specious comparison.

    The trouble is the Muslim isn't a "bogeyman". The Muslim has  proved himself to be a very real threat to the freedom and physical well being of those he categorizes as "The Other" - to borrow a phrase from that groveling dhimmi idiot Edward Said.

    Which at the end of the day pretty well sums up your "arguments" in favor of treating Islam in the west as "just another religion" - rather than the aggressive foreign colonialist entity that it is - which should be permitted to grow and spread its tentacles into western societies unchecked.

    No wonder I stopped taking Pat Condell seriously.
    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: Campaign Launched To Improve Image Of Islam
     Reply #227 - June 17, 2010, 04:30 AM
    Quote from: DH on June 17, 2010, 12:54 AM
    The same repeated non-arguments of course warrant the same repeated response. Now which of my above statements do you regard as "shit"?:

    1) The Muslim "faith communities" in the west have repeatedly proved themselves to be far more of a threat to western societies than any other indigenous or foreign religion.

    I regard that one as shit because the vast majority of them have done nothing. They are no threat to my country.


    Quote
    I fail to see how disallowing further mosque building could be "used against" other groups like Christians - any more than Saudi Arabia's ban on all non-Muslim religions in that country could be "used against" Islam. Perhaps you could explain.

    Simple. Once you legalise discrimination against one it becomes easier to justify it against others. After all, the Talmud/Old Testament contains plenty of things that are every bit as horrific as the contents of the Quran. The fact that most Jews and Christians don't put these bits into practice is irrelevant. I mean you never know when they will start taking their religion seriously, and what would happen then? We need to take precautions.


    Quote
    The trouble is the Muslim isn't a "bogeyman". The Muslim has  proved himself to be a very real threat to the freedom and physical well being of those he categorizes as "The Other" - to borrow a phrase from that groveling dhimmi idiot Edward Said.

    ROFLMAO. So now it's "the Muslim". Sort of like "the black" or "the Jew" eh? Yes, DH, "the Muslim" is a bogeyman. 
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Campaign Launched To Improve Image Of Islam
     Reply #228 - June 17, 2010, 07:40 AM
    Quote from: DH on June 17, 2010, 01:04 AM
    So if a BNP member called a black man a "nigger" and ended up having the crap beaten out of him, you'd jump in and protect him would you?


    Hey DH, I got an idea-- instead of asking, why don't you and IA head down to the roughest Black community you can find and test it out yourself? Actions speak louder than words.
    fuck you
  • Re: Campaign Launched To Improve Image Of Islam
     Reply #229 - June 17, 2010, 07:42 AM
    Film it.
  • Re: Campaign Launched To Improve Image Of Islam
     Reply #230 - June 17, 2010, 11:12 AM
    Quote from: DH on June 17, 2010, 01:04 AM
    So if a BNP member called a black man a "nigger" and ended up having the crap beaten out of him, you'd jump in and protect him would you?

    Of course. First I would call the police immediately and then do whatever else in my power to stop the fight even if it meant getting beat up. As long as I don't feel there is an imminent danger to my life


    Could you now please read my post in the link and reply.

    Quote from: DH on June 15, 2010, 10:55 AM
    Quote from: Iblis
    I personally believe in taking poops on BNP'ers heads,

    Why?

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=9690.msg250285#msg250285
  • Re: Campaign Launched To Improve Image Of Islam
     Reply #231 - June 17, 2010, 01:00 PM
    Quote from: Q-man
    Hey DH, I got an idea-- instead of asking, why don't you and IA head down to the roughest Black community you can find and test it out yourself? Actions speak louder than words.


    Sorry, no can do. The experiment stipulates a racist BNP member - which I am not. Now why don't you address the questions I directed at you?
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Campaign Launched To Improve Image Of Islam
     Reply #232 - June 17, 2010, 01:08 PM
    Because there's no point. You have your mind made up. You are authoritarian, statist slime, and I oppose authoritarianism whether it comes in the Muslim variety or your version. Anybody who wants state power to expand and individual and collective liberties against the state to contract is my enemy.

    You're like a fuckin robot, DH. Predictable, mind-numbing pattern. I don't know why you bother here. I don't think you've managed to get a single person to agree with your views here, and most people here can't stand you-- including the other hardline anti-Muslim folks who aren't here anymore.
    fuck you
  • Re: Campaign Launched To Improve Image Of Islam
     Reply #233 - June 17, 2010, 01:43 PM
    Quote from: Me
    1) The Muslim "faith communities" in the west have repeatedly proved themselves to be far more of a threat to western societies than any other indigenous or foreign religion.


    Quote from: osmanthus
    I regard that one as shit because the vast majority of them have done nothing. They are no threat to my country.


    The vast majority of Charles Manson's "family" didn't go breaking into people's houses and murdering them. However, a high enough proportion did so to render the prospect of the cult setting up its headquarters in ones neighborhood something not to be welcomed - and indeed to be actively opposed. Or do you regard making comparisons between Islam and Manson's killing cult to be somewhat absurd?


    Quote from: Me
    I fail to see how disallowing further mosque building could be "used against" other groups like Christians - any more than Saudi Arabia's ban on all non-Muslim religions in that country could be "used against" Islam. Perhaps you could explain.


    Quote
    Simple. Once you legalise discrimination against one it becomes easier to justify it against others.


    There you go on about "discrimination" again. It is only "discrimination" if Islam is "just another religion" and a mosque is "just another place of worship" like a hindu temple. This is obviously nonsense to anybody whose head is not buried deep in the sand. So-called "discrimination" against Islam can be justified on grounds that this global cult poses a particular proven danger to the non-Muslim societies in which it has established colonie as the CEMB's OWN MISSION STATEMENT acknowledges:

    the increasing intervention of and devastation caused by religion and PARTICULARLY ISLAM in contemporary society has necessitated our public renunciation and declaration.

    Or do you take issue with these words?

     
    Quote
    After all, the Talmud/Old Testament contains plenty of things that are every bit as horrific as the contents of the Quran. The fact that most Jews and Christians don't put these bits into practice is irrelevant.


    The fact that we are discussing ISLAM and not judaism or Christianity refutes this claim. Jews and Christians have a proven track record of reconciling themselves to living under "man made laws". The Jews have managed to create a truly democratic secular society in the middle east. Muslims have not. There are good reasons for this that I have outlined elsewhere.


    Quote
    ROFLMAO. So now it's "the Muslim". Sort of like "the black" or "the Jew" eh? Yes, DH, "the Muslim" is a bogeyman.


    Bogeymen don't exist. Muslims do. The "international Jewish conspiracy" is claptrap. The global Islamic one is a reality, whether you want to face up to the fact or not.

    If you think jihadism and shariaism can be effectively tackled while regarding their proponents as some kind of separate movement from "mainstream Islam"which should be allowed to expand in the west without constraint then you are living in a fools paradise I am afraid.
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Campaign Launched To Improve Image Of Islam
     Reply #234 - June 17, 2010, 01:46 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on June 17, 2010, 01:08 PM
    Because there's no point. You have your mind made up. You are authoritarian, statist slime, and I oppose authoritarianism whether it comes in the Muslim variety or your version. Anybody who wants state power to expand and individual and collective liberties against the state to contract is my enemy.

    You're like a fuckin robot, DH. Predictable, mind-numbing pattern. I don't know why you bother here. I don't think you've managed to get a single person to agree with your views here, and most people here can't stand you-- including the other hardline anti-Muslim folks who aren't here anymore.


    Ad hominem attacks are really all you have at the end of the day aren't they?
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Campaign Launched To Improve Image Of Islam
     Reply #235 - June 17, 2010, 02:08 PM
    DH wears pink panties for Nick Griffin.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 03:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Campaign Launched To Improve Image Of Islam
     Reply #236 - June 17, 2010, 02:18 PM
    Quote from: DH on June 17, 2010, 01:46 PM
    Ad hominem attacks are really all you have at the end of the day aren't they?


    Better than a used condom on my face and a crumpled up 5 dollar bill on my nightstand, which is all you have at the end of the day.
    fuck you
  • Re: Campaign Launched To Improve Image Of Islam
     Reply #237 - June 17, 2010, 02:18 PM
    Cheesy
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 03:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Campaign Launched To Improve Image Of Islam
     Reply #238 - June 17, 2010, 02:20 PM
    an answer to your hysterical reactionary paranoia DH:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWyJJQbFago
    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: Campaign Launched To Improve Image Of Islam
     Reply #239 - June 17, 2010, 02:25 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on June 17, 2010, 02:18 PM
    Better than a used condom on my face and a crumpled up 5 dollar bill on my nightstand, which is all you have at the end of the day.

    Syphilis and Paranoia do go hand in hand.
    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
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