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Theme Changer

 Poll

  • Question: Are there superior beings?
  • Yes. - 0 (0%)
  • No. - 5 (38.5%)
  • Maybe. - 8 (61.5%)
  • Total Voters: 13

 Topic: Now that you're an atheist...

 (Read 5591 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Now that you're an atheist...
     OP - April 20, 2010, 12:16 AM

    Whaddoya think like?  Smiley

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Now that you're an atheist...
     Reply #1 - April 20, 2010, 12:17 AM

    Define "superior beings".

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Now that you're an atheist...
     Reply #2 - April 20, 2010, 12:18 AM

    No.

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Now that you're an atheist...
     Reply #3 - April 20, 2010, 12:19 AM

     Roll Eyes

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Now that you're an atheist...
     Reply #4 - April 20, 2010, 12:23 AM

    You answer: that's it.

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Now that you're an atheist...
     Reply #5 - April 20, 2010, 12:24 AM


    I find this poll offensively bourgeois and imperialistic.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Now that you're an atheist...
     Reply #6 - April 20, 2010, 12:25 AM

    Why's that?

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Now that you're an atheist...
     Reply #7 - April 20, 2010, 12:27 AM

     Grin

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Now that you're an atheist...
     Reply #8 - April 20, 2010, 12:28 AM

    Vague and ambivalent questions without a clear articulation of the questioner's intent... Good luck with that.






    And no, I don't believe in things like "superiority" or "inferiority" as measures of the intrinsic value of beings. Such hierarchies are social constructs that may have had evolutionary reasons, but they are not hard-coded into anyone and are subject to change as societies change.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Now that you're an atheist...
     Reply #9 - April 20, 2010, 12:30 AM

    Then what do you believe 'measures' the 'intrinsic value' of beings?


    Quote
    Nothing. There's no intrinsic value; that itself is a human, social construct.


    There's no intrinsic value to human life? You nihilist.

    And: what kind of 'construct' is it (that you and your like talk of)? From where did it originate?

    [Why are you editing my messages?]

    Quote
    The only value/measure of anyone can be gauged through their actions,


    By who?

    Quote
    specifically how their actions impact others, and themselves.


    And who should judge this? A being with no intrinsic value?

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Now that you're an atheist...
     Reply #10 - April 20, 2010, 12:34 AM

    I don't believe in God....well hell I don't need to be rational or intelligent to do this. So now that I'm an atheist...thats where it ends. Just like now that I'm a non-bottle cap collector...I've stopped collecting bottle caps.Smiley End of story. Anything after it is irrelevant to my atheism because atheism is not a belief system.

    Edit: This is assuming by superior beings you mean God (s) and not some advanced aliens. Tongue

    "If intelligence is feminine... I would want that mine would, in a resolute movement, come to resemble an impious woman."
  • Re: Now that you're an atheist...
     Reply #11 - April 20, 2010, 12:35 AM

    Then what do you believe 'measures' the 'intrinsic value' of beings?


    Nothing. There's no intrinsic value; that itself is a human, social construct.

    The only value/measure of anyone can be gauged through their actions, specifically how their actions impact others, and themselves.

    E.g. case in point, my mistake up above was a stupid action on my part. I can make mistakes. I am not superior or inferior to anyone else. (Please feel free to edit your post, if you'd like, panoptic.)

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Now that you're an atheist...
     Reply #12 - April 20, 2010, 12:42 AM

    Nothing. There's no intrinsic value; that itself is a human, social construct.


    There's no intrinsic value to human life? You nihilist.

    And: what kind of 'construct' is it (that you and your like talk of)? From where did it originate?

    Quote
    The only value/measure of anyone can be gauged through their actions,


    By who?

    Quote
    specifically how their actions impact others, and themselves.


    And who should judge this? A being with no intrinsic value?

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Now that you're an atheist...
     Reply #13 - April 20, 2010, 12:43 AM

    Check my post above...  Roll Eyes

    Nihilistic? LOL. No it's called Existentialism, Consequentialism... it's the opposite of Nihilism. Nihilism expects fantastical reality and finds none. What I'm talking about is not Nihilism.

    Who should judge? Well it's up to individuals and up to societies. Societies and individuals don't like murderers... who judges them? Society, law, the political structures that are around us. Individually, we judge who we want in our lives and who we don't. These judgements are also subject to change.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Now that you're an atheist...
     Reply #14 - April 20, 2010, 12:45 AM

    There's no intrinsic value to human life? You nihilist.


    First of all you said "beings"... you didn't say human beings. You do know there are beings other than human beings, right? As for nihilism, a nihilist is someone who doesn't believe there can be value in anything. There's a difference between that and saying value is determined by factors other than "intrinsic-ness".

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Now that you're an atheist...
     Reply #15 - April 20, 2010, 12:46 AM

    No it's called Existentialism


    Existentialism doesn't deny all value of human life. Quite the opposite.

    Quote
    Who should judge? Well it's up to individuals and up to societies.


    It's up to MAN. That's right.

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Now that you're an atheist...
     Reply #16 - April 20, 2010, 12:48 AM

    First of all you said "beings"... you didn't say human beings. You do know there are beings other than human beings, right?


    Which ones have 'intrinsic value'?

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Now that you're an atheist...
     Reply #17 - April 20, 2010, 12:48 AM

    Existentialism doesn't deny all value of human life. Quite the opposite.


    It does absolutely deny any intrinsic value. It says our choices determine who we are and our value. Choices ... actions... not anything intrinsic, but what we *do*.

    It's up to MAN. That's right.


    Didn't say those words exactly but feel free to not pay attention to what's being said and imagine whatever you'd like.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Now that you're an atheist...
     Reply #18 - April 20, 2010, 12:49 AM

    Which ones have 'intrinsic value'?


    This is what I'm saying... there's no such thing as intrinsic value. The universe is not waiting for our judgement on it... do you understand that??

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Now that you're an atheist...
     Reply #19 - April 20, 2010, 12:51 AM

    It does absolutely deny any intrinsic value. It says our choices determine who we are and our value. Choices ... actions... not anything intrinsic, but what we *do*.


    Now... intrinsic value... where does that idea come from?

    It doesn't deny 'value' (or, rather: intrinsic meaning). Only nihilism does that.

    Quote
    Didn't say those words exactly but feel free to not pay attention to what's being said and imagine whatever you'd like.


    No, you didn't.

    And no I won't. Unlike the theists and liberals and nihilists etc...

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Now that you're an atheist...
     Reply #20 - April 20, 2010, 12:54 AM

    Now... intrinsic value... where does that idea come from?


    You tell us. You started this convo with a discussion of superiority and then balked at the idea of explaining your thought process. Smiley

    It doesn't deny 'value' _or, rather: intrinsic meaning). Only nihilism does that.


    Yes the world is very very simple. Either a person believes in what panoptic believes, or he/she is a nihilist.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Now that you're an atheist...
     Reply #21 - April 20, 2010, 12:55 AM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED4VL7W6VdQ

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Now that you're an atheist...
     Reply #22 - April 20, 2010, 12:59 AM

    You tell us.


    Capitalism.

    Extrapolating exchange values to human life.

    Quote
    Yes the world is very very simple.


    Do you think so?

    Human life, wordly life, has inherent meaning - anything else is nihilism.

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Now that you're an atheist...
     Reply #23 - April 20, 2010, 01:02 AM

    Capitalism.

    Extrapolating exchange values to human life.


    Monetary value is not the only measure of value, or is that what you think?

    Human life, wordly life, has inherent meaning - anything else is nihilism.


    Well the meaning is that we're here, so is everything, including non human animals, plants, rocks... what other meaning is there that's applicable to all, and can you prove it?

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Now that you're an atheist...
     Reply #24 - April 20, 2010, 01:06 AM

    Monetary value is not the only measure of value, or is that what you think?


    Yes, that is it. Value is a purely economic category, yet it is made to contaminate human qualities and potentialities.

    Quote
    Well the meaning is that we're here, so is everything, including non human animals, plants, rocks... what other meaning is there that's applicable to all, and can you prove it?


    The only meaning is applicable to us.

    Man is the 'being for' man [as Marx said]!

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Now that you're an atheist...
     Reply #25 - April 20, 2010, 01:14 AM

    Yes, that is it. Value is a purely economic category, yet it is made to contaminate human qualities and potentialities.


    Oh right, I forgot... everything in existence boils down to just reductionist economics for both demagogical capitalists and communists. Roll Eyes

    Going by that, disabled people, those who can't/won't reproduce, children etc. are all valueless, right?

    The only meaning is applicable to us.

    Man is the 'being for' man [as Marx said]!


    Thanks for proving my point: "meaning" "value" etc. are man-made social constructs.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Now that you're an atheist...
     Reply #26 - April 20, 2010, 01:19 AM

    You call me a demagogical communist for the very reason that: I oppose the extrapolation of exchange values to human life.... but you don't!

    They are man-made. Except 'value' is anti-human... and meaning isn't.

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Now that you're an atheist...
     Reply #27 - April 20, 2010, 01:33 AM

    Ok, semantic pedantry aside, what do you think is the difference between "Value" and "Meaning" in this context? Here's what the dictionary says about "Value"

    val·ue
       /ˈvælyu/
    –noun
    1.relative worth, merit, or importance: the value of a college education; the value of a queen in chess.
    2.monetary or material worth, as in commerce or trade: This piece of land has greatly increased in value.
    3.the worth of something in terms of the amount of other things for which it can be exchanged or in terms of some medium of exchange.
    4.equivalent worth or return in money, material, services, etc.: to give value for value received.
    5.estimated or assigned worth; valuation: a painting with a current value of $500,000.
    6.denomination, as of a monetary issue or a postage stamp.
    7.Mathematics.
    a.magnitude; quantity; number represented by a figure, symbol, or the like: the value of an angle; the value of x; the value of a sum.
    b.a point in the range of a function; a point in the range corresponding to a given point in the domain of a function: The value of x2 at 2 is 4.
    8.import or meaning; force; significance: the value of a word.
    9.liking or affection; favorable regard.
    10.values, Sociology. the ideals, customs, institutions, etc., of a society toward which the people of the group have an affective regard. These values may be positive, as cleanliness, freedom, or education, or negative, as cruelty, crime, or blasphemy.
    11.Ethics. any object or quality desirable as a means or as an end in itself.
    12.Fine Arts.
    a.degree of lightness or darkness in a color.
    b.the relation of light and shade in a painting, drawing, or the like.
    13.Music. the relative length or duration of a tone signified by a note.
    14.values, Mining. the marketable portions of an orebody.
    15.Phonetics.
    a.quality.
    b.the phonetic equivalent of a letter, as the sound of a in hat, sang, etc.

    The only definition you are willing to notice is the monetary value. There are other measures of value besides as applied in economics. That was my point... value as in any kind of value is determined by actions. "Meaning" is similarly a subjective term, signifying more of a personal, reflexive viewpoint rather than a social/structural viewpoint.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Now that you're an atheist...
     Reply #28 - April 20, 2010, 02:55 AM

    All meaning is entirely social. What else?

    Value is derived from exchange value historically. So what you say is not so much not the point. It is, in fact, the point itself.

    To put 'value' on people owes more to slavery than to equality; for their living to be meaningful and for one to have belief in that is another matter.

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Now that you're an atheist...
     Reply #29 - April 20, 2010, 04:44 AM

    *cocky Italian voice* Superior beings??? Superior beings??? You're talking to 'em buddy!

    Also monetary evaulation only approximates a person's "psychic value" that he or she places on an object, experience, etc. That value exists independent of monetary evaulation, of which requires certain characteristics to be able to be visible.  The issue is that exchange value is the only way that human beings have to approximate such value.

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »