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Theme Changer

 Topic: Men

 (Read 15989 times)
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  • Re: Men
     Reply #30 - April 11, 2010, 11:30 AM
    Quote from: kaiwai on April 11, 2010, 11:11 AM
    Make one declaration like that and every one wants to get into your pants lol You've got yourself a little fan club here Smiley


    lol... Note to self: Don't post when you've had a couple of drinks  grin12
  • Re: Men
     Reply #31 - April 11, 2010, 11:32 AM
    It'll be all over the Islamic channels tomorrow.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Men
     Reply #32 - April 11, 2010, 01:16 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on April 11, 2010, 11:30 AM
    lol... Note to self: Don't post when you've had a couple of drinks  grin12


    Can't hold your booze eh?  grin12

    Okay everyone, you heard him say it, get him liquored up and you can have your way with him.  whistling2

    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I remain.
  • Re: Men
     Reply #33 - April 11, 2010, 02:22 PM
    Quote from: RIBS on April 11, 2010, 10:52 AM
    Hey just occured to me..... since men have nipples too, do you think the original story was like
    Adam was created from Eve's rib, and not the other way around  Thinking hard

    good point
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  • Re: Men
     Reply #34 - April 11, 2010, 06:54 PM
    Christ, I didn't even notice this sub-forum.

    Can we have one for Hermaphrodites and Transexuals in Islam too  Tongue

    I keed, I keed.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Men
     Reply #35 - April 11, 2010, 06:55 PM
    Quote from: allat on April 11, 2010, 01:58 AM
    I think this is a great idea for a thread billy. Afro In fact, we have something similar to this in the works. lipsrsealed


    Always one step ahead, never outgunned, that's what they say about me in the whisky saloons I frequent. Or something like that.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Men
     Reply #36 - April 11, 2010, 07:18 PM
    Quote from: allat on April 11, 2010, 01:58 AM
    I think this is a great idea for a thread billy. Afro In fact, we have something similar to this in the works. lipsrsealed

    The mods have started a thread on men  Huh?
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  • Re: Men
     Reply #37 - April 11, 2010, 07:23 PM

    They created a whole sub-forum for men!


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Men
     Reply #38 - April 11, 2010, 07:28 PM
    Perhaps, but sounds like a crap idea to me.  Whatever I say here, is exactly what I would say on a men-only forum.
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  • Re: Men
     Reply #39 - April 11, 2010, 07:34 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on April 11, 2010, 07:28 PM
    Perhaps, but sounds like a crap idea to me.  Whatever I say here, is exactly what I would say on a men-only forum.

    Just as a woman might say anything she'd say elsewhere on the forum in the women in islam sub-forum. It's not designed to be a man's club, but a place to discuss issues affecting men in islam. For example a relevant thread has already been started there (aside from this one). During the discussion we touched on some of the ways men are subjected to oppression which is different to that which women experience but how both should be recognised for what they are.
    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
  • Re: Men
     Reply #40 - April 11, 2010, 07:43 PM
    Oh yes, I am not saying Islam doesnt affect men and their are specific issues related to men that are problematic.  But I can do that here, and dont need specially designed segregatory sub-forum to do so. 

    If I have views that I feel needs to be kept behind closed doors, then I need to have a rethink.  I am no longer in trapped in a cerebral closet, but out in the open. 
    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: Men
     Reply #41 - April 11, 2010, 07:56 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on April 11, 2010, 07:43 PM
    Oh yes, I am not saying Islam doesnt affect men and their are specific issues related to men that are problematic.

    So we've established that there are topics for discussion relating to a whole host of scenarios involving men, just like women.

    Quote from: IsLame on April 11, 2010, 07:43 PM
    But I can do that here, and dont need specially designed segregatory sub-forum to do so. 

    I agree. I could also discuss an issue involving women in islam in a general forum. Organising the forum into sub-categories is designed to draw attention to topics of interest. The reason international news is separated from UK news, for example. I think it's a good idea to contain issues relating to men in islam in their own subforum so they don't get lost amongst threads in the womenin islam forum or another sub-forum.

    Quote from: IsLame on April 11, 2010, 07:43 PM
    If I have views that I feel needs to be kept behind closed doors, then I need to have a rethink.  I am no longer in trapped in a cerebral closet, but out in the open. 

    I understand where you're coming from. Try not to think of sub-forums as closed areas of discussion, but categories relating to areas of interest.
    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
  • Re: Men
     Reply #42 - April 11, 2010, 07:58 PM
    yeah i always wondered about you males..
    how come when islam says or assumes  you can't control yourselves in front of unveiled women you don't stand up and say 'how insulting'... like you are somehow unable to control your actions is a woman walks by...
    if i was a guy i would find that insulting ... Huh?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV9vdUjuWxc
  • Re: Men
     Reply #43 - April 11, 2010, 07:59 PM
    Good for you Islame.  Afro But try and remember that you are a regular member, we are trying to be more welcoming to new apostates and new members as well. The Men's subforum is not about segregation. Like both men and women post in the "Women in Islam" forum, so, both men and women can and should post in the "Men in Islam" forum. Rather than a segregated space, it's a space for organized discussions, articles, polls etc. as they relate to issues surrounding Islam's effect on Men, like how the Women's forum is meant to house articles, discussions and polls about Islam's effect on Women. When new members/new apostates come on this site, they may benefit from seeing an organized space where they can quickly look up a number of articles about men in Islam, like they can currently look up articles (in 1 sub-forum) about women in Islam.

    Hope that clarifies it a bit. Smiley
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Men
     Reply #44 - April 11, 2010, 08:05 PM
    Quote from: nessrriinn on April 11, 2010, 07:58 PM
    if i was a guy i would find that insulting ... Huh?


    That's what befuddles me. If any ideology or person went around saying a social group I belong to, is in essence, dumber, than another social group, I'd find that very insulting. I don't see how the stereotype of the bumbling male is not an insult to men, though it seems, more and more men are realizing how gender stereotypes affect them negatively as well as women.
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Men
     Reply #45 - April 11, 2010, 08:05 PM
    Quote from: nessrriinn on April 11, 2010, 07:58 PM
    yeah i always wondered about you males..
    how come when islam says or assumes  you can't control yourselves in front of unveiled women you don't stand up and say 'how insulting'... like you are somehow unable to control your actions is a woman walks by...
    if i was a guy i would find that insulting ... Huh?

    Incredibly insulting, tbh. I like to think that I might have progressed past the level of primal beast at least to the extent that I can control my base urges.
    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
  • Re: Men
     Reply #46 - April 11, 2010, 08:09 PM
    Quote from: thinkfree on April 11, 2010, 07:56 PM
    So we've established that there are topics for discussion relating to a whole host of scenarios involving men, just like women.

    Yes, that was never in question, and we are free to do so here if we ever feel like doing.

    Quote
    I agree. I could also discuss an issue involving women in islam in a general forum. Organising the forum into sub-categories is designed to draw attention to topics of interest. The reason international news is separated from UK news, for example. I think it's a good idea to contain issues relating to men in islam in their own subforum so they don't get lost amongst threads in the womenin islam forum or another sub-forum.

    I dont think a separate subject area would generate enough interest to merit its own specific subject area.  Men do not have the additional set of demands based upon their sex in the same way women do.

    A quick search on men in the search option will broadly show how much interest it might generate.  Not that its not a subject worthy of discussion, its

    Quote
    I understand where you're coming from. Try not to think of sub-forums as closed areas of discussion, but categories relating to areas of interest.

    Are you saying it would only be accessible only to men?  If so, dont you think it is segregatory?  We're all part of the same human race, and what I say to you I hope would be no different to what I would say to a black jewish transgender female.

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  • Re: Men
     Reply #47 - April 11, 2010, 08:09 PM
    Quote from: nessrriinn on April 11, 2010, 07:58 PM
    yeah i always wondered about you males..
    how come when islam says or assumes  you can't control yourselves in front of unveiled women you don't stand up and say 'how insulting'... like you are somehow unable to control your actions is a woman walks by...
    if i was a guy i would find that insulting ... Huh?


    I don't find it insulting, because its so stupid. The victims of Islams stupidities are first and foremost, Muslims themselves. I do feel somewhat insulted on their behalf, and offended is not the right word, more gobsmacked and amazed when this logic is projected into a discussion.

    It basically means that Islam considers Muslim men to be incontinent. That's kind of embarassing for Islam, and embarassing for Muslim men.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Men
     Reply #48 - April 11, 2010, 08:13 PM
    Quote from: allat on April 11, 2010, 07:59 PM
    Good for you Islame.  Afro But try and remember that you are a regular member, we are trying to be more welcoming to new apostates and new members as well. The Men's subforum is not about segregation. Like both men and women post in the "Women in Islam" forum, so, both men and women can and should post in the "Men in Islam" forum. Rather than a segregated space, it's a space for organized discussions, articles, polls etc. as they relate to issues surrounding Islam's effect on Men, like how the Women's forum is meant to house articles, discussions and polls about Islam's effect on Women. When new members/new apostates come on this site, they may benefit from seeing an organized space where they can quickly look up a number of articles about men in Islam, like they can currently look up articles (in 1 sub-forum) about women in Islam.

    Hope that clarifies it a bit. Smiley

    Oh, I get it - its not a male-only club.  Yes, in that case its a good idea for new joiners to see a section like that, and differentiates us from other apostate sites which are focused on the women issues.  We do that here too, by just have a section of women too.

    Yes, I guess when I joined, I would have been interested about males apostacy issues, and would have had a look as they are rarely discussed.  Its also makes it more equal & balanced, given that we already have one for women.

    However if we do, can I suggest moving all past male-related issue threads there.  Its just that I fear it will never have much content.
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  • Re: Men
     Reply #49 - April 11, 2010, 08:15 PM
    Quote from: nessrriinn on April 11, 2010, 07:58 PM
    if i was a guy i would find that insulting ... Huh?

    I once explained to a Muslim friend of mine the implications of the demand for covering using the example of that Australian Imam who compared uncovered women to meat. You guys should have seen his face at the moment the realization hit him.

    Quote from: nessrriinn on April 11, 2010, 07:58 PM
    yeah i always wondered about you males..

    It applies to Muslim men only!

    This is what Manat had to say regarding this issue:
    Quote from: Manat on March 30, 2010, 08:04 PM
    Because they're not thinking!  They don't realize that it means that Islam says they can't be man enough to control themselves.  Also, if someone else becomes responsible for your sexuality and its expression, then it's easier for you to act as you want to and then cast the blame on that person b/c it was their responsibility.  

  • Re: Men
     Reply #50 - April 11, 2010, 08:18 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on April 11, 2010, 08:09 PM
    I dont think a separate subject area would generate enough interest to merit its own specific subject area.  Men do not have the additional set of demands based upon their sex in the same way women do.

    But they do have a different set of demands and pressures placed upon them by islam.

    Quote from: IsLame on April 11, 2010, 08:09 PM
    A quick search on men in the search option will broadly show how much interest it might generate.

    The "other blogs and bios" sub-forum only has 231 posts as of now, the men in islam sub-forum already has 62. Perhaps it should be amalgamated into the main blogs and bios sub-forum by your logic. Or perhaps it's fine as it is, because it provides a different set of perspectives on leaving faiths other than islam in an otherwise ex-muslim dominated forum.

    Quote from: IsLame on April 11, 2010, 08:09 PM
    Are you saying it would only be accessible only to men?  If so, dont you think it is segregatory?  We're all part of the same human race, and what I say to you I hope would be no different to what I would say to a black jewish transgender female.

    I'm sorry if I didn't make myself very clear. I'm saying the opposite.
    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
  • Re: Men
     Reply #51 - April 11, 2010, 08:24 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on April 11, 2010, 08:15 PM
    It applies to Muslim men only!

    The problem is that they project these ideas onto the entire male gender within free societies where they are in a minority. How many 'sisters' did you ever know who were scared of 'respectful brothers'? In the West they are protecting themselves from 'kuffar' males.
    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
  • Re: Men
     Reply #52 - April 11, 2010, 08:42 PM
    Quote from: thinkfree on April 11, 2010, 08:24 PM
    The problem is that they project these ideas onto the entire male gender within free societies where they are in a minority. How many 'sisters' did you ever know who were scared of 'respectful brothers'? In the West they are protecting themselves from 'kuffar' males.

    Point is that one can use "applies to Muslim men only" to point out the fact that non-Muslims are not like animals - according to Islam that is.

    One can also point out that the fact that Western women do not cover themselves indicates that men in the West are in fact capable of sexual restraint, that they are not simply blind slaves to their sexual desires.

  • Re: Men
     Reply #53 - April 11, 2010, 08:49 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on April 11, 2010, 08:42 PM
    Point is that one can use "applies to Muslim men only" to point out the fact that non-Muslims are not like animals - according to Islam that is.

    One can also point out that the fact that Western women do not cover themselves indicates that men in the West are in fact capable of sexual restraint, that they are not simply blind slaves to their sexual desires.

    Very true. You would have thought this would be obviously evidenced by the fact that many non-muslim women go out wearing revealing clothing without continual fear of sexual assult.
    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
  • Re: Men
     Reply #54 - April 11, 2010, 08:50 PM
    Quote from: thinkfree on April 11, 2010, 08:18 PM
    But they do have a different set of demands and pressures placed upon them by islam.

    Such as?
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  • Re: Men
     Reply #55 - April 11, 2010, 09:15 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on April 11, 2010, 08:50 PM
    Such as?

    Forced marriage, which we're already discussing in this thread.
    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
  • Re: Men
     Reply #56 - April 11, 2010, 09:31 PM
    ^^Thanks thinkfree! You just taught me some html without even realizing it. Afro
  • Re: Men
     Reply #57 - April 11, 2010, 10:20 PM
    That's BBC, not HTML. Tongue
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Men
     Reply #58 - April 11, 2010, 10:53 PM
    Quote from: thinkfree on April 11, 2010, 09:15 PM
    Forced marriage, which we're already discussing in this thread.

    Yes, but a lot of the problems with Islam happen to both men & women; or women specifically.  This is an example where it is not specifically aimed at men, that is what I was asking for. 

    My point was that men are not specifically targetted in Islam like women are.
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  • Re: Men
     Reply #59 - April 11, 2010, 11:41 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on April 11, 2010, 10:53 PM
    Yes, but a lot of the problems with Islam happen to both men & women; or women specifically.  This is an example where it is not specifically aimed at men, that is what I was asking for.

    It affects men differently because another set of pressures are applied to coerce them into marriages they do not want. I don't accept the false dichotomy inferred by your question that because many issues faced by men in islam are also faced by women that they should automatically be amalgamated under the category of women in islam. It's not very different from arguing that UK news is still news and technically the UK is part of the rest of the world so it should all be part of the same sub-forum.

    Quote
    My point was that men are not specifically targetted in Islam like women are.

    Islamic ideology is patriarchal in nature, so women will inevitably bear the brunt of its force. However men also suffer within patriarchal systems. False benefits are offered such as the ability to have multiple wives, which merely serve as a way to incentivise men to conform. They experience psychological damage, from being expected to take on alpha roles which can be very stressful and being pressurised to conform to standards of masculinity. They also suffer from emotional damage from being unable to form healthy relationships with females due to restrictions in forming bonds with them.

    You could argue from what I've said that there should simply be a "gender issues" type sub-forum. However, I think that would miss the point. As in the example mentioned before regarding people's stories of leaving religion there is a good reason for not allowing the experiences of those leaving religions other than islam from being lost within the ex-muslim stories. They offer unique perspectives on other religions. In a similar way, men's experiences of islam differs from that of women. It's not a question of whether they are more or less exploited, or whether the issues they face are similar. The point is that they are experienced from a male perspective, with which other males can relate. It's nice that there is now an area where ex-muslim (or muslim) men can easily access information and ideas relating to their experience of islam without having to sift through countless threads relating to the mistreatment of women. I think that makes it a useful resource, regardless of popularity.
    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
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