Cryonics?

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Cryonics?
OP - April 04, 2010, 02:16 PM

http://alcor.org/AboutCryonics/index.html
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Cryonics is the speculative practice of using cold to preserve the life of a person who can no longer be supported by ordinary medicine. The goal is to carry the person forward through time, for however many decades or centuries might be necessary, until the preservation process can be reversed, and the person restored to full health.

While cryonics sounds like science fiction, there is a basis for it in real science. The complete scientific story of cryonics is seldom told in media reports, leaving cryonics widely misunderstood.

Cryonics is justified by three facts that are not well known:

1) Life can be stopped and restarted if its basic structure is preserved.

Human embryos are routinely preserved for years at temperatures that completely stop the chemistry of life. Adult humans have survived cooling to temperatures that stop the heart, brain, and all other organs from functioning for up to an hour. These and many other lessons of biology teach us that life is a particular structure of matter. Life can be stopped and restarted if cell structure and chemistry are preserved sufficiently well.

2) Vitrification (not freezing) can preserve biological structure very well.

Adding high concentrations of chemicals called cryoprotectants to cells permits tissue to be cooled to very low temperatures with little or no ice formation. The state of no ice formation at temperatures below -120°C is called vitrification. It is now possible to physically vitrify organs as large as the human brain, achieving excellent structural preservation without freezing.

3) Methods for repairing structure at the molecular level can now be foreseen.

The emerging science of nanotechnology will eventually lead to devices capable of extensive tissue repair and regeneration, including repair of individual cells one molecule at a time. This future nanomedicine could theoretically recover any preserved person in which the basic brain structures encoding memory and personality remain intact.

So...

If survival of structure means survival of the person;

If cold can preserve essential structure with sufficient fidelity;

If foreseeable technology can repair injuries of the preservation process;
Then cryonics should work, even though it cannot be demonstrated to work today. That is the scientific justification for cryonics. It is a justification that grows stronger with every new advance in preservation technology.

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What does everyone think? What are the chances it would work?

I think I'm definitely going to go for it. Once i'm about 60-70 I'll voluntarily get a lethal injection inside a cryonics facility so they can preserve me right away. Unless I die in some other way that is
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Re: Cryonics?
Reply #1 - April 04, 2010, 02:32 PM

Why not just stick yourself in a meat freezer?

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 03:58 PM
Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.
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Re: Cryonics?
Reply #2 - April 04, 2010, 02:33 PM

cryonics is not freezing.

FYI rabbit kidneys
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Re: Cryonics?
Reply #3 - April 04, 2010, 02:39 PM

Quote from: @li on April 04, 2010, 02:16 PM

I think I'm definitely going to go for it. Once i'm about 60-70 I'll voluntarily get a lethal injection inside a cryonics facility so they can preserve me right away. Unless I die in some other way that is

Yeah, fuck that. Unless they have found a way to give me youth again at the same time they wake me up, I'd rather stay dead than be woken up as a 60-70 woman.

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Re: Cryonics?
Reply #4 - April 04, 2010, 02:48 PM

Well,

Quote
3) Methods for repairing structure at the molecular level can now be foreseen.

The emerging science of nanotechnology will eventually lead to devices capable of extensive tissue repair and regeneration, including repair of individual cells one molecule at a time. This future nanomedicine could theoretically recover any preserved person in which the basic brain structures encoding memory and personality remain intact.

If tissue repair and regeneration could happen, it would likely also be able to reverse the aging process by reparing cell damage that occurs through aging, so you could wake up young!

The point is that they preserve your brain, with the belief that the rest of your body could be regenerated...
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Re: Cryonics?
Reply #5 - April 04, 2010, 02:51 PM

I'd do it if that was the aim and I had the money.

Sadly no money, not now or in the foreseeable future,

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Re: Cryonics?
Reply #6 - April 04, 2010, 02:52 PM

Actually you can pay for it via life insurance. Look into it
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Reply #7 - April 04, 2010, 03:02 PM

Quote
Myth 8: Cryonics is an indulgence of rich people.

Most of Alcor's membership is middle class, and funds cryonics by life insurance. Cryonics is within reach of any healthy young person in the industrialized world who plans for it. For a young person, the lifetime cost of cryonics is no greater than that of smoking, cable TV, or regular eating out.

http://alcor.org/cryomyths.html
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Reply #8 - April 04, 2010, 03:14 PM

Medicine is developing too quickly. We are running out of resources for all these people we're keeping alive. The likelihood of war and famine is just going to increase. Some family planning will help! Might be a cynical view but.... really, the human population is growing too quickly.
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Reply #9 - April 04, 2010, 03:19 PM

@prince so is the space technology. there's no reason to believe we wont be able to colonize moon/other plants by the time earth runs out of resources.

Edit: P.S I do think that people should do family planning, etc, but not doing research in cryonics is lame imo.
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Reply #10 - April 04, 2010, 07:20 PM

I think over-population will occur long before we find a way to utilise resources on another planet..... but that's just speculation....
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Reply #11 - April 04, 2010, 08:01 PM

Since the world is arguably already overpopulated I don't think it is all that speculative.

Anyway, one question about cryogenics that I've never seen satisfactorily answered: what incentive would people in the future have for reviving you?

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Reply #12 - April 04, 2010, 10:31 PM

@osman , to learn about the previous culture and just for the big media story. If we had the ability to revive people from the past today I would bet you anything we would do it. See how fascinated we already are with fossils and bones of dead folks? Imagine having a real person from the 1600s or 1700s
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Re: Cryonics?
Reply #13 - April 04, 2010, 10:41 PM

Quote from: osmanthus on April 04, 2010, 08:01 PM
Anyway, one question about cryogenics that I've never seen satisfactorily answered: what incentive would people in the future have for reviving you?

access to a specially set up trust fund

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Reply #14 - April 05, 2010, 03:56 AM

And those who think that we will run out of resources.. should look up the 3 civilization types..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale

Here's what theoretical physicist and futurologist Michio Kaku has to say about this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cF4p_pMfcs
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Reply #15 - April 05, 2010, 04:18 AM

Quote from: @li on April 04, 2010, 10:31 PM
@osman , to learn about the previous culture and just for the big media story. If we had the ability to revive people from the past today I would bet you anything we would do it. See how fascinated we already are with fossils and bones of dead folks? Imagine having a real person from the 1600s or 1700s

Yes I understand that point but you're forgetting that there are a stack of people frozen and let's face it, most of them are probably boring egotistical pricks or they wouldn't be doing it anyway. The novelty of reviving boring egotistical pricks who assume they are important enough to revive would probably wear off pretty quickly. Unless the person in question was a genuine expert on some particularly fascinating aspect of their culture they are just as likely to be kept as a frozen museum exhibit. Food for thought there.

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Re: Cryonics?
Reply #16 - April 05, 2010, 04:26 AM

The company whom you pay $200k or so to keep you preserved will be responsible for keeping you preserved and for your revival as well. I'm sure it will all be in the legal contract.

Secondly, you're showing your ignorance when you say that boring egotistical people are the ones who would take advantage of this technology. Rather, the boring people will be the ones getting themselves put into boxes and buried. People who take advantage of this sort of innovative and controversial technology are the smart ones, the elites.

3rdly, even with today's human rights no dead bodies will ever be put up on display anywhere, so you're showing even more ignorance when you claim that in 100 years when nanotechnology is advanced enough to regenerate bodies and we will be a type 1 or type 2 civilization, people will put up your dead bodies on display.

4th, only a tiny, tiny fraction of humanity are getting themselves preserved. Right now there are around 1000 people total who've had this done. So they won't have a stack of dead bodies.
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Re: Cryonics?
Reply #17 - April 05, 2010, 04:32 AM

Quote from: @li on April 05, 2010, 04:26 AM
The company whom you pay $200k or so to keep you preserved will be responsible for keeping you preserved and for your revival as well. I'm sure it will all be in the legal contract.

You're assuming regeneration becomes feasible before the company goes out of business. What's the average life of a company these days?

Any corporation can declare itself dissolved at any time, and you can be sure the top management have already figured out how to line their pockets with the company's assets before dissolving it. Standard business practice, mate.

Quote
Secondly, you're showing your ignorance when you say that boring egotistical people are the ones who would take advantage of this technology. Rather, the boring people will be the ones getting themselves put into boxes and buried. People who take advantage of this sort of innovative and controversial technology are the smart ones, the elites.

I thought you were planning on doing this.

Quote
3rdly, even with today's human rights no dead bodies will ever be put up on display anywhere, so you're showing even more ignorance when you claim that in 100 years when nanotechnology is advanced enough to regenerate bodies and we will be a type 1 or type 2 civilization, people will put up your dead bodies on display.

Dude, dead bodies are still being put on display today.

Quote
[4th, only a tiny, tiny fraction of humanity are getting themselves preserved. Right now there are around 1000 people total who've had this done. So they won't have a stack of dead bodies.

They wont need 1,000 from the same culture. Ten would be more than enough to satisfy curiosity, and their social attitudes, ethical attitudes and technical skills will be centuries out of date.

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Re: Cryonics?
Reply #18 - April 05, 2010, 04:41 AM

Quote
You're assuming regeneration becomes feasible before the company goes out of business. What's the average life of a company these days?

Any corporation can declare itself dissolved at any time, and you can be sure the top management have already figured out how to line their pockets with the company's assets before dissolving it. Standard business practice, mate.

You are further assuming that if a company does go out of business, there will be no other companies/scientific organizations/charities/governments interested in keeping the ancient people preserved. Certainly the frozen bodies of 16th century men will never be destroyed even in present conditions.

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I thought you were planning on doing this.

If most of the population thinks like you then I'm definitely one of the elites

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Dude, dead bodies are still being put on display today.

Not without their consent. At least nowhere in the civilized world.

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They wont need 1,000 from the same culture. Ten would be more than enough to satisfy curiosity, and their social attitudes, ethical attitudes and technical skills will be centuries out of date.

Not really. A doctor will have different insights to share than an engineer, and so on.
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Re: Cryonics?
Reply #19 - April 05, 2010, 04:58 AM

Quote from: @li on April 05, 2010, 04:41 AM
Not without their consent. At least nowhere in the civilized world.

Only applies to the recently deceased. Older bodies are regularly put on display without any problems over lack of consent.

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Re: Cryonics?
Reply #20 - April 05, 2010, 05:03 AM

Those bodies don't have a will saying 'don't put me on display, keep me preserved'
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Reply #21 - April 05, 2010, 05:28 AM

Might not be legally binding after a while. It can be taken for granted that the owners of the bodies did not anticipate being put on display and would have preferred to remain buried where they were.

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Reply #22 - April 05, 2010, 05:31 AM

I'm positive that if they had a written will specifically asking not to be put on display, that no one would do it.
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Reply #23 - April 05, 2010, 05:36 AM

Also, you're comparing centuries old skeletons with no tissue to very well preserved people who can be revived through modern science. Not a fair comparison. A skeleton cannot be revived at all therefore its good for nothing except being put in a meuseum.
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Reply #24 - April 05, 2010, 12:07 PM

This is relavant to what Os was asking.

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Q: Who will revive the patients?

A: The short answer is "Alcor will revive them."

The third item in Alcor's mission statement is: "Eventually restore to health all patients in Alcor's care."

Reviving the patients is also required by Alcor's contracts with members: "When, in Alcor's best good faith judgement, it is determined that attempting revival is in the best interests of the Member in cryopreservation, Alcor shall attempt to revive and rehabilitate the Member."

Reviving the patients is also a duty of the Alcor Patient Care Trust: "At such time as Alcor deems that repair and revival of the Patients is feasible, the Trust shall expend whatever amounts of money are necessary to revive the Patients and reintroduce them to society, as long as on-going care of the Patients remaining in biostasis is not endangered. It is the intent of the Trust that such repair and revival proceed in such manner that ongoing Trust earnings reasonably can be predicted to provide for the eventual repair and revival of all Patients."

Financially, the Patient Care Trust should grow in real value over time — compound interest should eventually produce sufficient assets to cover the costs of revival. At the same time, as technology progresses the cost of reviving patients should decrease over time. Eventually, the ever increasing funds available in the PCT should be sufficient to pay for the ever decreasing costs of reviving the patients.

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Q: How will Alcor sustain itself for the duration of my cryopreservation?

A: In 1997, Alcor created an irrevocable Patient Care Trust. This trust was established to ensure the security of the funds allotted to the long-term care of Alcor's cryopatients. Using a conservative estimate, the funds should generate more than enough money to cover patient maintenance indefinitely.

Alcor places $25,000 into the Trust for each neuropatient and $65,000 for each whole body patient. The Trust holds the mortgage of the building housing Alcor patients as well as majority interest in the ownership of the building. The rest of the Trust investments are held at the investment firm of Morgan Stanley. Future growth of the Trust that sufficiently exceeds patient storage cost may be used to fund research into the technology of patient repair and resuscitation.

FYI it is a non profit organization..
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