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 Topic: Fatwa against terrorism

 (Read 7300 times)
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  • Fatwa against terrorism
     OP - March 02, 2010, 10:35 AM

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8544531.stm

    An influential Muslim scholar is to issue in London a global ruling against terrorism and suicide bombing.

    Dr Tahir ul-Qadri, from Pakistan, says his 600-page judgement, known as a fatwa, completely dismantles al-Qaeda's violent ideology.

    The scholar describes al-Qaeda as an "old evil with a new name" which has not been sufficiently challenged.

    The scholar's movement is growing in the UK and has attracted the interest of policymakers and security chiefs.

    In his religious ruling, Dr Qadri says that Islam forbids the massacre of innocent citizens and suicide bombings.

    Although many scholars have made similar rulings in the past, Dr Qadri's followers argue that the massive document being launched in London goes much further.


      Extremist groups based in Britain recruit the youth by brainwashing them that they will be rewarded in the next life

    Shahid Mursaleen
    They say it sets out point-by-point theological arguments against the rhetoric used by al-Qaeda inspired recruiters.

    The fatwa also challenges the religious motivations of would-be suicide bombers who are inspired by promises of an afterlife.

    The populist scholar developed his document last year as a response to the increase in bombings across Pakistan by militants.

    The basic text has been extended to 600 pages to cover global issues, in an attempt to get its theological arguments taken up by Muslims in western nations. It will be promoted in the UK by Dr Qadri's organisation, Minhaj ul-Quran International.

    Shahid Mursaleen, spokesman for Minhaj-ul-Quran in the UK, said the fatwa was hard-hitting.

    "This fatwa injects doubt into the minds of potential suicide bombers," he said.

    "Extremist groups based in Britain recruit the youth by brainwashing them that they will 'with certainty' be rewarded in the next life.

    "Dr Qadri's fatwa has removed this key intellectual factor from their minds."

    Religious rulings

    The document is not the first to condemn terrorism and suicide bombing to be launched in the UK.


     MINHAJ UL-QURAN
    Islamic organisation from the Sufi tradition
    Active in 70 countries
    5,000 members in UK


    BBC Religion: Sufism explained 
    Scholars from across the UK came together in the wake of the 7 July London attacks to denounce the bombers and urge communities to root out extremists.

    But some scholarly rulings in the Middle East have argued that the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians is an exceptional situation where "martyrdom" attacks can be justified.

    Although Dr Qadri has a large following in Pakistan, Minhaj ul-Quran International remained largely unknown in the UK until relatively recently.

    It now has 10 mosques in the British cities with significant Muslim communities and says it is targeting younger generations it believes have been let down by traditional leaders.

    The organisation is attracting the attention of policymakers and security chiefs who are continuing to look for allies in the fight against extremists.

    The Department for Communities, which runs most of the government's "Preventing Violent Extremism" strategy, has tried building bridges with a variety of liberal-minded groups, but often found that they have limited actual influence at the grassroots.



    The last stand of frej
  • Re: Fatwa against terrorism
     Reply #1 - March 02, 2010, 01:46 PM

    Sounds like a small step forward in the right direction. However the statement :
    In his religious ruling, Dr Qadri says that Islam forbids the massacre of innocent citizens and suicide bombings.
    is so open to interpretation,indeed is used already to justify atrocities by different interpretations of what 'innocent' means. The one I mostly come up against is 'Muslims' are innocent and infidels and apostates are fair game. I even read once that the muslim victims of the tube bombings were not innocent as they were mixing with the kaffirs.

    We've a way to go but as I say its a step in the right direction and I hope that it has some effect on borderline jihadists and radicals.

    According to the polls only 1.6 % of Americans are athiests. So what gives you the right to call the other 80% morons?'
  • Re: Fatwa against terrorism
     Reply #2 - March 02, 2010, 02:45 PM

    Tahir ul Qadri and Javed Ahmed Ghamidi are perhaps the only two Pakistani ulema I tend to respect. I like Ghamidi's style although a lot of people accuse him of being too 'modernist'.

    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: Fatwa against terrorism
     Reply #3 - March 02, 2010, 04:41 PM

    Is Tahir ul Qadri a Barelvi?

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Fatwa against terrorism
     Reply #4 - March 02, 2010, 05:06 PM

    Tahir ul Qadri and Javed Ahmed Ghamidi are perhaps the only two Pakistani ulema I tend to respect. I like Ghamidi's style although a lot of people accuse him of being too 'modernist'.

    Did you read the Ghamdi-Sina debate?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Fatwa against terrorism
     Reply #5 - March 02, 2010, 06:56 PM

    No I havent actually. I heard about it a long time back, but didnt pay attention. How was it?

    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: Fatwa against terrorism
     Reply #6 - March 02, 2010, 07:38 PM

    Mashallah. I bet after hearing this Bin Laden will have second thoughts about 9/11.  mysmilie_977 Roll Eyes

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Fatwa against terrorism
     Reply #7 - March 02, 2010, 07:48 PM

    Puh-leeze!  There have been so many fatwas issued against terrorism and suicide bombings since 9/11.  Do you really think anyone with an Islamist agenda is going to pay attention to this guy and his fatwa?  They never have in the past so why do so now?

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: Fatwa against terrorism
     Reply #8 - March 02, 2010, 08:05 PM

    It's better than being quiet though.

    I am glad he did it.
  • Re: Fatwa against terrorism
     Reply #9 - March 02, 2010, 08:21 PM

    Puh-leeze!  There have been so many fatwas issued against terrorism and suicide bombings since 9/11.  Do you really think anyone with an Islamist agenda is going to pay attention to this guy and his fatwa?  They never have in the past so why do so now?


    They paid attention when Dr. Fadl repudiated them- Zawahiri even had to issue several hurried rebuttals

    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: Fatwa against terrorism
     Reply #10 - March 02, 2010, 09:51 PM

    Progress of some sort i guess, better than hearing a fatwa against someone for drawing cartoons or writing a book.

    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: Fatwa against terrorism
     Reply #11 - March 02, 2010, 09:53 PM

    This is so confusing. How can one party find rationale to commit terrorist acts. And another party condemns these people to hell?

    And both of them using the same sources?
  • Re: Fatwa against terrorism
     Reply #12 - March 02, 2010, 09:56 PM

    Fair play to the guy for standing up to be counted.  It will be interesting to see what the nutjob clerics response is.

    Allah, The Beneficent, The Merciful, The Perpetually Pissed Off About Some Shit Or Other.
  • Re: Fatwa against terrorism
     Reply #13 - March 02, 2010, 09:58 PM

    Let us know Ricardo. Not sure where one is to find one such as that. Crazy clerics bulletin board Cheesy
  • Re: Fatwa against terrorism
     Reply #14 - March 02, 2010, 09:59 PM


    This guy is being promoted by the government. He has a very small following (I think I saw in the BBC website it said he has about 5000 followers in Britain)

    Because he has some patronage of the government he will be prone to accusations from those hostile to him of being a British establishment stooge, you know the drill.

    More importantly, will he be invited to speak at the East London Mosque? The Green Lane Mosque in Birmingham?

    How will the message go down with the Jamaati-e-Islami, Tableeghi Jamaati, salafis, and wahaabis, the hardline deobandis, and the Hizb-ut-Tahrirs, the al Muhajirouns, and the Muslim Brotherhood scoundrels and various Mawdudi disciples in Britain who spread their messages of hostility constantly in various means, and are responsible for the consistent grooming and coarsening of Muslims, especially young Muslims, into hardline and uncompromising attitudes and beliefs. Even though they don't have a mandate, they speak the loudest because they are organised - they have the zeal of fanatics, and so they are the ones who create the atmospherics of separateness and grievance that causes the problem.

    I wish him all the luck in the world, but the problem is larger than just one guy writing a document against the practise of suicide bombing.



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Fatwa against terrorism
     Reply #15 - March 02, 2010, 09:59 PM

    This is so confusing. How can one party find rationale to commit terrorist acts. And another party condemns these people to hell?

    And both of them using the same sources?


    Different schools of thought and interpretation of texts. That's what it comes down to.

    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: Fatwa against terrorism
     Reply #16 - March 02, 2010, 10:14 PM

    Let us know Ricardo. Not sure where one is to find one such as that. Crazy clerics bulletin board Cheesy


    rabidlydroolingintomybeard.com and justsoiledmyselfonhearingaboutawomanlearning.org are both pretty good for keeping ones finger on the pulse of the inexcusably disturbed among the ulema. Wink

    Allah, The Beneficent, The Merciful, The Perpetually Pissed Off About Some Shit Or Other.
  • Re: Fatwa against terrorism
     Reply #17 - March 02, 2010, 10:15 PM

     Cheesy
  • Re: Fatwa against terrorism
     Reply #18 - March 02, 2010, 10:16 PM

    They spend time deciding whether or not anal sex is halal. As if a God actually would care about something as silly as that. Can you imagine? In the 21th century as well.
  • Re: Fatwa against terrorism
     Reply #19 - March 02, 2010, 11:21 PM

    No I havent actually. I heard about it a long time back, but didnt pay attention. How was it?

    Its a great piece of work, I even saved it alongside my blog - takes ages to read but worth it - heres the link http://www.scribd.com/doc/24488219/Ghamdi-vs-Sina-Debate-muslim-vs-ex-muslim-debate

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Fatwa against terrorism
     Reply #20 - March 03, 2010, 10:54 AM

    Thanks. I've downloaded and saved it. Will read as soon as I get spare time.  Afro

    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: Fatwa against terrorism
     Reply #21 - March 04, 2010, 02:15 PM

    I think it is a big mistake to promote any of the muslim groups against any other. In reality that will be strengthening islam against ourselves. This idea has been tried in iraq and afganistan. One group was promoted against the other so that they fight amongst themselves but they did not and the ones that were helped became strong against the infidels that armed them. Same situation is here. Our funding will help them print more islamic literature and distribute it yet wider.

    The only way to fight islam is to stop it from growing, for all branches of islam are dangerous. We need to discredit all those who try and fool us. The only genuine muslims are those who claim to be secular muslims. Such muslims do not read the quran to follow it but to understand it so that they could see the dangers and stay away from those dangers.

    The other muslims are those who do not practice islam even though they believe in it. We are better leaving these muslims to themselves because disturbing them will make them practicing muslims thereby dangerous. Let the sleeping dogs lie.

    To oppose islam the best things is to start open discussions and debates about islam and muslims in mosques and faith schools and on muslim tv channels and radio stations etc etc. Just like muslims, if infidels do not go to mosques to know about islam then muslims bring islam to them, we infidels too need to take our ideas to muslims if they refuse to come to us. Let us have open, honest and genuine discussions debates about islam.

    Tahir alqadri is no different from any other muslims I know him since 70s when he came on world islamic mission conference. His difference of opinion is not about jihad but about who can declare jihad. That is all his fatwa is about. His argument is that taleban and alqaida jihad is not jihad because no muslim state has declared this jihad. Individuals cannot take law in their own hands. All this is no use because muhammad declared jihad without being a tribal chief and without being the ruler of state. He started his jihad by looting caravans and attacking weak targets.  

    He also tells us that because attacking nonmuslims is harming islam and muslim interests that is why this jihad is not a jihad. This means if nonmuslims were not able to inflict such damage on muslims then this jihad will be jihad.

    I am a student of quran and islam and not an exmuslim.
  • Re: Fatwa against terrorism
     Reply #22 - March 04, 2010, 05:57 PM

    Its good that a Muslim is speaking out, for sure, but it isn't enough. If Muslims really want to prove to people that they are about peace, they need to get out in the streets in MASSES, and that includes Imams as well. Because the only time you ever see 50,000 + Muslims on the street protesting is if its for that bullshit "FREE PALESTINE" movement, but when a suicide bombing occurs, none of those 50,000+ who were in the free Palestine movements go into the public and speak out against terrorism. The most sad part is that the people who speak out against terrorism the most are either secular Muslims or a few Ex-Muslims. Sorry if my post sounded stupid, but really when was the last time you have ever seen 50,000+ muslims out in public saying no to terrorism? What they need to understand is that creating a facebook which says Islam condemns terrorism or having a group of 15 people saying terrorism is not speaking out.

    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: Fatwa against terrorism
     Reply #23 - March 04, 2010, 06:02 PM

    Its good that a Muslim is speaking out, for sure, but it isn't enough. If Muslims really want to prove to people that they are about peace, they need to get out in the streets in MASSES, and that includes Imams as well. Because the only time you ever see 50,000 + Muslims on the street protesting is if its for that bullshit "FREE PALESTINE" movement, but when a suicide bombing occurs, none of those 50,000+ who were in the free Palestine movements go into the public and speak out against terrorism. The most sad part is that the people who speak out against terrorism the most are either secular Muslims or a few Ex-Muslims. Sorry if my post sounded stupid, but really when was the last time you have ever seen 50,000+ muslims out in public saying no to terrorism? What they need to understand is that creating a facebook which says Islam condemns terrorism or having a group of 15 people saying terrorism is not speaking out.


    Muslims don't speak out against terrorism because a good chunk of them agree with sticking it to the kuffar. And those that don't are just apathetic and avoidant of the issue altogether. Anytime a practicing muslim tries to deal with the issue of terrorism head on the islamists that dominate muslim community orgs usually launch a smear campaign against them.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Fatwa against terrorism
     Reply #24 - March 04, 2010, 06:04 PM

    Muslims don't speak out against terrorism because a good chunk of them agree with sticking it to the kuffar. And those that don't are just apathetic and avoidant of the issue altogether. Anytime a practicing muslim tries to deal with the issue of terrorism head on the islamists that dominate muslim community orgs usually launch a smear campaign against them.


    And they wonder why everyone hates them (I don't). If they will never speak out, then people will always give Islam a bad name and thats their fault, for not speaking out.

    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: Fatwa against terrorism
     Reply #25 - March 04, 2010, 06:09 PM

    Mind you, I'm not saying most muslims would straight up agree or support terrorism. They do not. But the fact is that their is a sort of implicit "understanding" among Muslims and sympathetic attitudes in general. How can you ever get people to be passionately against something when they either sympathize with it or outright deny it.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

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