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 Topic: The Reformed Islam of COEM

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  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #150 - March 30, 2010, 05:38 PM
    Quote from: IslamMythology on March 30, 2010, 05:18 PM
    Islamic mythology is a body of myths and legends belonging to the Muslims which recognize a spiritual tradition identified with Abraham and culminating in Muhammad. Greek mythology is the body of myths and legends belonging to the ancient Greeks.


    Yeah I know what Greek mythology is, I was pointing out that comparing Islam to ancient Greek mythology is bogus. And your definitions of what Islamic mythology is just shows how that mythology actually doesn't belong to Muslims at all, because 9 tenths of them are Jewish and Christian in the Abrahamic lineage.

    You have to confine yourself to Mo's life to get your mythology, and even then it has nothing to do with ancient Greee and is not comparable to it.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #151 - March 30, 2010, 05:40 PM
    Well its not really "Christian" either, billy. Its really all Jewish.. but then again it probably isn't Jewish since they probably ripped it off older semitic cults and babylonian/egyptian stuff... so on and so forth.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #152 - March 30, 2010, 05:46 PM
    Quote
    Well its not really "Christian" either, billy. Its really all Jewish.. but then again it probably isn't Jewish since they probably ripped it off older semitic cults and babylonian/egyptian stuff... so on and so forth.

     

    Well, yeah, but my point was that the lineage of Abrahamic faith is not something that is solely identifiable with Muslims when it comes to 'mythology'.

    So what is Islamic mythology?

    Oh, its the mythology of other religions, but I'll claim it as ours. We have some extra bits that we add on ie: the life of Mo. I mean, its just funny, it so wrong. And once again, none of this can be compared to Greek mythology. For a start, nobody worships those Gods. They are best remembered today because of Homer, the Iliad and the Odyssey, ie: as works of imaginative literature. And because of movies like Clash of the Titans as well. What does anything that can be compared to mythology in Islam have in common with this?

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #153 - March 30, 2010, 05:48 PM
    I don't get it Billy, how is it wrong? Why does it bother you so much if he wants to believe in that? Are we going to hound every muslim here until he totally becomes like us?

    Practically every religion on earth is nothing more than a rip-off of a previous + some new shit. Its really not a very good argument your making.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #154 - March 30, 2010, 06:06 PM
    .
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #155 - March 30, 2010, 06:15 PM
    You want us to call ourselves muslims.  What do you say to people who say in order to be a muslim you must accept the Allah as the one & only God, and prophet Mohammed as his final messenger.  You will find most of us can not except either of these two clauses.
    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #156 - March 30, 2010, 06:20 PM
    Quote from: Iblis on March 30, 2010, 05:48 PM
    I don't get it Billy, how is it wrong? Why does it bother you so much if he wants to believe in that? Are we going to hound every muslim here until he totally becomes like us?

    Practically every religion on earth is nothing more than a rip-off of a previous + some new shit. Its really not a very good argument your making.


    I'm not making an argument - I'm saying that claiming Jewish, Christian, Abrahamic 'mythology' as Islamic mythology is bizarre.




    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #157 - March 30, 2010, 06:24 PM
    Quote from: IslamMythology on March 30, 2010, 06:06 PM
    Not only is Islam like Greek mythology, in some areas IT IS Greek mythology. What I mean is that it has some influence from Greek mythology, both directly and indirectly. For example, compare Pegasus and Buraq. Both names refer to "lightening", both are white, winged beasts that take their religious figure up to Heaven (or Mt. Olympus) to talk with God/the Gods.


    Oh brother. So now Islamic mythology is Greek mythology too. Amazing. Yeah, well if you're going to stretch it that way, it isn't so different from a normal Muslim saying everyone is a Muslim and everything is Islamic, like, its right here in my book, you got pwned, Allah-hu-Akbar.


    Quote
    See here is another advantage of taking up Islamic mythology. You may be able to let go of your hate. As an 'Ex-Muslim' or an 'Atheist' alone, your beliefs will be too heavily characterized by negativity, because your ideas are all about negating other's ideas - there is no positive embrace


    I don't have any hate. It seems that an Islamic Mythologist is not different from an Islamic Literalist when it comes to ascribing 'hatred' to anyone who they disagree with.


    Quote
    Being an Ex- anything or an Anti- anything can be bad for your health, mentally. For Atheists I find that they must mix in Humanism to get balanced. For Ex-Muslims, I don't know, but you have to find something.

    I enjoy the challenge of ideas though (not so much the condescending attitude) so keep them coming.


    You speak on behalf of atheists and ex-Muslims and what they need? Now that really is a condescending attitude  Afro



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #158 - March 30, 2010, 06:26 PM

    By the way IM, you didn't reply to this post of mine:

    Quote
    The problem is you talk about the fundamentalists who hate you and your interpretation. This is incredibly naive. Its not just the fundamentalists who hate you and reject you - its 90% of Muslims full stop, from benign, peace loving, moderate practitioners, to nominal Muslims who only celebrate Eid but still fear Allah and think Mohammad was the greatest thing that ever happened - none of these are fundamentalists, none of them are extremists, but they would still consider you to be a loathsome kaffir, your ideas detestable, stupid and preposterous.

    That is what you are up against.


    You see, people here are the last persons you need to be trying persuade as to the efficacy of your vision.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #159 - March 30, 2010, 07:45 PM
    Quote from: IslamMythology on March 30, 2010, 06:06 PM
    See here is another advantage of taking up Islamic mythology. You may be able to let go of your hate. As an 'Ex-Muslim' or an 'Atheist' alone, your beliefs will be too heavily characterized by negativity, because your ideas are all about negating other's ideas - there is no positive embrace. Being an Ex- anything or an Anti- anything can be bad for your health, mentally. For Atheists I find that they must mix in Humanism to get balanced. For Ex-Muslims, I don't know, but you have to find something.


    Well I gotta call you out on this one.

    I do not define myself in opposition to anything. I'm only an ex-muslim because I used to believe in Islam and now I don't. That doesn't mean I define the rest of my views according to their opposition to Islam. When among company I rarely ever describe myself as an "ex-muslim" - instead I am for science, humanism and freedom. I reject Islam precisely because it comes into conflict with those beliefs.

    And honestly, I think its a lot more unhealthy to live trying to make sense of ancient nonsense or 'mythology' as you call it. If you don't believe these things to be true then why call yourself a Muslim? Why not just "islam mythology enthusiast"?

    Look, I understand your angle and what your trying to do. I was there once. But frankly, it's quite futile and superficial at the end of the day. A muslim is a person who claims to believe in the Quran as the inerrant word of god and the prophet muhammad as his last and infallible messenger. If you do not accept this definition then you should call yourself something else - until of course you have successfully redefined the word (that means a majority of muslim scholars accept your new defintion).
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #160 - March 30, 2010, 07:47 PM
    exactly  Afro
    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #161 - March 31, 2010, 12:16 AM
    .
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #162 - March 31, 2010, 12:52 AM
    Quote
    I believe that you guys simply hate Islam so much that you can't stand that someone like me has any kind of positive connection to it. I think that is just childish.


    Get a grip mate.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #163 - March 31, 2010, 12:55 AM
    Quote from: IslamMythology on March 31, 2010, 12:16 AM
    why are you trying to push me out of my religion?


    Ah, so that's us doing that. Not the 95% of practising and nominal Muslims who will look at you as if you are mad, and consider you to be a kaffir for believing all that you believe and saying all that you're saying. Nope. The problem is ex-Muslims and dissenters from Islam who disagree with you. Okey dokey.

    I'll have some of what you're smoking please.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #164 - March 31, 2010, 02:11 AM
    @IslamMythology

    Why are you so concerned with whether we hate Islam are not? Why are you here to try to rationalize your beliefs to people who've already left the faith? Why not go to a muslim forum for this purpose where it would serve some useful goal? What makes you believe we care about your fringe and inconsequential beliefs?

    You last post in the "Nice Hadith" thread and the thread you made is sort of giving away the fact that you're really here to play apologetics for Islam. Nice try though!
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #165 - March 31, 2010, 02:47 AM
    Quote from: IslamMythology on March 31, 2010, 12:16 AM


    I believe that you guys simply hate Islam so much that you can't stand that someone like me has any kind of positive connection to it.


    Use the word hate and it becomes easy to ignore the genuine criticism. I don't think the members here "hate" Islam. I think they followed their reasoning aptitude and came to a conclusion that Islam cannot be a divine religion. In fact they have concluded that there is no divine religion.

    Quote
    I have many fond memories of my days as a devout Sunni, why are you trying to push me out of my religion? Isn't it enough for you that I concede and take ownership of it's errors? What else do you want from me?

     

    I don't see how you can conclude that this forum is trying to push you out of your religion. I have been arguing with them without getting that feeling at all.
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #166 - March 31, 2010, 03:49 AM
    .
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #167 - March 31, 2010, 04:01 AM
    Again with the holier-than-thou arrogance which is so typical of the haughty religious types too proud to get off their (imaginary) high horse.  Roll Eyes

    Curse Satan? Why curse something made by man's own primitive Bronze Age insecurities and fears? At least Muhammad existed as a man, Satan (and Allah for that matter) have only existed in the insecure fears of mankind. Like the Big Bad Wolf, and the Nazgul from LOTR series by Tolkien.

    Again, IslamMythology, you have badly lost the plot here. Your 'truth' is delusion. That just proves why us leaving Islam was better for us, and should be for anyone willing to think outside the box.
    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #168 - March 31, 2010, 04:02 AM
    Why the hell does COEM always attract the fringe elements of Islam that most Muslims would dismiss as near-heresy and blasphemy?

    Are the orthodox Muslims (and their multitude of sects) so damn scared of us apostates?
    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #169 - March 31, 2010, 06:23 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on February 22, 2010, 10:49 PM
    My Muslim brother has such a wide definition of what constitutes a Muslim it includes anyone who is "good." (How long is a piece of string?)


    That reminds me of a question I raised over at Shia Chat regarding Ismailis, its funny how many on their that anyone who says the Shahada is a Muslim. Not that I think it is a bad thing; if you're going to have a wide scope then it allows for a plurality of beliefs thus a better chance of a moderate/liberal/progressive strain to come through but for some reason I simply don't see the majority holding onto such a loose definition just as I don't think there are many who would be willing to acknowledge 'the tailor' as a fellow Muslim because of his esoteric understanding of the Qur'an.

    Quote from: atheist.pk on March 31, 2010, 04:02 AM
    Why the hell does COEM always attract the fringe elements of Islam that most Muslims would dismiss as near-heresy and blasphemy?

    Are the orthodox Muslims (and their multitude of sects) so damn scared of us apostates?


    Because their understanding is like concrete - any challenge to it will result in cracks appearing. If you're liberal your mind is open enough to approach a matter for multiple angles and can entertain re-interpretation and so forth. Who wants 'concrete Islam'? those whose identity is based on nothingness and need to exaggerate Islam to make up for that non-existance.
    "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #170 - March 31, 2010, 10:55 AM
    Quote from: IslamMythology on March 31, 2010, 03:49 AM
    It is so ironic to me that as soon as I arrive here I get bad treatment. It is just like going to a Muslim forum. And you are as unwilling as they are to be objective. COEMB Takfeeris, who would have thought lol.


    Bad treatment = people disagreeing with you.

    Spoken like a true Muslim.

    Can someone bring out the red carpet, and bring some dates and grapes to feed IM please? He's feeling sore about people disagreeing with him.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #171 - March 31, 2010, 11:03 AM
    Quote from: IslamMythology on March 31, 2010, 12:16 AM
    In a surprise twist I thought I joined the council of ex-muslims while I really joined the council of ex-muslim takfeeris lol. Any bets on how long I last before I get banned?

    I bet you dont get banned.  Why, how much do you want to bet?
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #172 - March 31, 2010, 11:06 AM
    Quote from: IslamMythology on March 31, 2010, 12:16 AM
    I believe that you guys simply hate Islam so much that you can't stand that someone like me has any kind of positive connection to it. I think that is just childish. You guys are way overboard on the hate, and it is a common problem amongst people in the ex- something anti-something a- something communities. This is a problem I have seen over and over again, in person, and on chat programs like Paltalk, which I have been on for over 10 years. Whether it is a Muslim or Ex-Muslim, Christian or Ex-Christian, Theist or Atheist room on Paltalk all you get is a lot of hate. It seems like people flip flop from one extreme to the other and few find the careful balance of truth that lies somewhere in between. Many Humanists complain about Atheists, and how horrible their attitudes are, and how horrible it is to base one's beliefs on not believing in something.

    You might be right, but there is reason we are ex-muslims are dont like this mythology you hold supreme. 

    If you want details take a look at the blog in my signature, but to summarise ; it condones murder, paedophilia, polygamy, wife beating, slavery and you want us to be "nice" about it & wish you the best in upholding its values?
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #173 - March 31, 2010, 11:17 AM
    Quote from: IslamMythology on March 31, 2010, 03:49 AM
    I didn't come to this forum for the purpose of Islamic apologetics, I just have this funny thing about sticking to the truth as close as possible. If I am not cussing Muhammad as worse than satan himself I am suspect in this forum. I wish there was an Islamic studies forum but there is not. People in Islamic studies usually like to ask the tough questions and turn things on their head until they get down to the facts (though there are some people in Islamic studies who have their own agenda).


    The Islam forum I am on has some pretty good discussions - if you would like the website I can give it via private message.

    Quote
    It is so ironic to me that as soon as I arrive here I get bad treatment. It is just like going to a Muslim forum. And you are as unwilling as they are to be objective. COEMB Takfeeris, who would have thought lol.


    Unfortunately many of them put up their crappy cultural version of Islam they got taught by their parents as being Islam - superstitious nonsense, second hand stories, Qur'an being put on top shelves in the belief it'll ward off evil spirits, old wives tales of Muhammad being born already circumcised, his heart washed with zamzam water when he was young when he was visited by two angels, jinns that control you and give you bad thoughts, black dogs that are possessed by evil spirits, Satan eating with his left hand and so on and so on on. Are you surprised that so many people here are a psychological mess?
    "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #174 - March 31, 2010, 11:20 AM
    Just to clarify: which parts of Islam are not "superstitious nonsense"? Methinks that would be a very short list.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #175 - March 31, 2010, 11:35 AM
    Quote
    Unfortunately many of them put up their crappy cultural version of Islam they got taught by their parents as being Islam - superstitious nonsense, second hand stories, Qur'an being put on top shelves in the belief it'll ward off evil spirits, old wives tales of Muhammad being born already circumcised, his heart washed with zamzam water when he was young when he was visited by two angels, jinns that control you and give you bad thoughts, black dogs that are possessed by evil spirits, Satan eating with his left hand and so on and so on on. Are you surprised that so many people here are a psychological mess?


    Kaiwai, you seem to have a chip on your shoulder about people here, after your long absence. Why don't you name names, instead of making this trembling admixture of personalised and generalised insult? Its not just that its a spectacle, its actually very boring. Get it out of your system.

    Thanks.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #176 - March 31, 2010, 01:17 PM
    Quote from: kaiwai on March 31, 2010, 11:17 AM
    Are you surprised that so many people here are a psychological mess?


    That's a pretty nasty thing to say, Kaiwai.
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #177 - March 31, 2010, 02:42 PM
    Kaiwai calling others a psycholigical mess quite the rich. Especially coming from a guy who is so emotionally comprimised that he feels the uncontrollable impulse to come here and cuss out ex-muslims who don't give a shit what he thinks in any case. QQ more. eusa_boohoo

    And of course the obsession with every minutiae of Islamic theology, a religion that has little roots or bearing on his own personal life. Yeah we get it, you had to suffer the oppression of Islam for a total of 4 days. *slow clap* You're like Jesus only you made your own cross and nailed yourself up there. Such a martyr.

    Get help, BRO.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #178 - March 31, 2010, 04:29 PM
    Quote from: atheist.pk on March 31, 2010, 04:02 AM
    Why the hell does COEM always attract the fringe elements of Islam that most Muslims would dismiss as near-heresy and blasphemy?

    Are the orthodox Muslims (and their multitude of sects) so damn scared of us apostates?


    They are dismissive towards apostates and view them with contempt worse than that reserved for Hindus. But you already know this from your Islamic days?
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #179 - September 01, 2011, 10:10 PM
    Quote from: Iblis on March 31, 2010, 02:42 PM
    You're like Jesus only you made your own cross and nailed yourself up there. Such a martyr.


    Is... is that you, Jesus?

    And, @thread: this, basically: http://www.mpvusa.org/our_principles.html
    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
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