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 Topic: The Reformed Islam of COEM

 (Read 20383 times)
  • 12 3 ... 7 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • The Reformed Islam of COEM
     OP - February 22, 2010, 10:11 PM

    Let's make our own reformed version of Islam.

    Who wants to go first? We can later compile it and make it coherent. But brainstorm first.
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #1 - February 22, 2010, 10:25 PM

    It would be good to think Muslims could get to the stage where they realise that the Qur'an is NOT the word of God but the meditations of Muhammad. They could therefore ignore the bits that are crap and move on.
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #2 - February 22, 2010, 10:37 PM


    Hmmmmm....I think a reformed Islam becoming mainstream Islam would mean the de-fanging and castration of it to such a degree that it would simply cease to be anything resembling what we know as Islam anymore.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #3 - February 22, 2010, 10:47 PM

    and what is Islam billy? 99% of Islam is submission to one God and maintaining the 5 pillars.

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #4 - February 22, 2010, 10:49 PM

    My Muslim brother has such a wide definition of what constitutes a Muslim it includes anyone who is "good." (How long is a piece of string?)
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #5 - February 22, 2010, 10:54 PM

    Why reform when everything is good and makes sense?
    Or you desire to make evil as good and good as evil.
    ha same people, same ideas, human will never learn from past until they experience it themselves, but it will be too late.
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #6 - February 22, 2010, 10:58 PM

    and what is Islam billy? 99% of Islam is submission to one God and maintaining the 5 pillars.


    OK. Lets start off with the de-fanging of Islam, the ideas of Ummah Supremacism, the Mohammad worship, the underlying attitudes of Arab imperialism, the very central tenets of Jihad and the ideology of Kuffar-ism. Make them dissapear and you have.....well, Judaism and a bit of Christianity, basically.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #7 - February 22, 2010, 10:59 PM

    Why reform when everything is good and makes sense?


     Grin


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #8 - February 22, 2010, 11:05 PM

    OK. Lets start off with the de-fanging of Islam, the ideas of Ummah Supremacism, the Mohammad worship, the underlying attitudes of Arab imperialism, the very central tenets of Jihad and the ideology of Kuffar-ism. Make them dissapear and you have.....well, Judaism and a bit of Christianity, basically.


    Come again? Islam defanged we get Judiasm?!! JUDIASM?!! What do you mean by Judiasm? the one described in the Hebrew Bible or the one *practiced* today?

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #9 - February 22, 2010, 11:14 PM

    hate to say it, but debunkers right - original pure unadulterated Judaism would make you piss your pants, where do you think Islam got its ridiculous ideas from.. (although Jews claim they did not invent the Islamic concept of hell, as that came from Christianity)

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #10 - February 22, 2010, 11:15 PM

    Quote
    Come again? Islam defanged we get Judiasm?!! JUDIASM?!! What do you mean by Judiasm? the one described in the Hebrew Bible or the one *practiced* today?

     

    I mean Islam would revert to what it is shorn of all the central impulses of Kuffari-ism, Mohammad idolatry, Jihad, and so on, and that is, an unremarkable, unoriginal, plaigarised set of rules indistinguishable from certain aspects and templates of Judaism and Christianity.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #11 - February 22, 2010, 11:16 PM

    hate to say it, but debunkers right - original pure unadulterated Judaism would make you piss your pants, where do you think Islam got its ridiculous ideas from.. (although Jews claim they did not invent the Islamic concept of hell, as that came from Christianity)


    Well, that is what I said, see my last post.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #12 - February 22, 2010, 11:18 PM

    Let's make our own reformed version of Islam.

    Who wants to go first? We can later compile it and make it coherent. But brainstorm first.

    Its a pointless exercise - If you defang it, no-one would follow it.  The power of the fear (through hell), pride (part of ummah) & hope (via prayers) meme is what keeps it alive..

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #13 - February 22, 2010, 11:25 PM

    @ Billy

    again I'm confused:

    Kuffari-ism --> I won't speak of Hebrew Bible, but check out the lovely NT on this one.
    http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1506&p=21821#p22543

    - Mohammad idolatry --> Jesus worship.

    - Jihad --> Hebrew Bible orders genocide PLUS enslaving *entire* nations outside the promised land.

    - an unremarkable, unoriginal, plaigarised set of rules indistinguishable from certain aspects and templates of Judaism and Christianity --> So? why should God be different? He was one God since forever... in fact the Quran openly admits that its core message is NOT new AT ALL and that it has been the same message since the dawn of humanity.

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #14 - February 22, 2010, 11:29 PM



    debunker, I don't really know why my comments are controversial to you. IsLame says it quite concisely as well.

    Its a pointless exercise - If you defang it, no-one would follow it.  The power of the fear (through hell), pride (part of ummah) & hope (via prayers) meme is what keeps it alive..



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #15 - February 22, 2010, 11:38 PM

    @ billy

    English is NOT my first language and you use very weird words like "shron" so perhaps that's why I don't understand you Smiley

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #16 - February 23, 2010, 05:28 AM

    Let's make our own reformed version of Islam.

    Who wants to go first? We can later compile it and make it coherent. But brainstorm first.


    Dear BlackDog, I do not think the issue is clarity of what we want islam to be, that I made very clear in introduction ie so long as muslims accept freedom, secularism, democracy, human rights and separation between religion and state there is no problem between muslims and nonmuslim. There is no confusion there at all as to what islam needs to be ie so long as islam is within the said parameters what else anyone thinks islam is that is his/her own business.

    The real issue is serious conflict of interests between individuals and between individuals and their groups and between groups which keeps religion the way it is.

    Religions were invented and modified to serve some purposes to begin with and so long as the sense of those purposes remains alive, we cannot get ourselves rid of religions. So we need to bring about a group that offers a better alternative to religions. You do not leave your parents house till you have some place better to go. Alternatively you may be thrown out of your parental home because you do not live by the house rules or that you may so dislike the parental house rules that you just walk away without much forethought as to how you are going to survive etc etc.

    You see religions were brought about and modified by all sections of humanity, this is why each person is ready to defend his religion because in his or her mind it serves his or her purpose. For example, it gives control to rich and powerful and solace or comfort and courage to the poor to live another day. So rich and powerful person defends religion for his reasons and the poor for his reasons. To bring reality of religion to peoples' minds needs education and education needs backing of the rich and the poor ie so that rich help provide resources for education and the poor to make an effort to educate themselves. Once education is there it makes easier for people to see where their real interests lie.

    Since rich and powerful individuals within a society can use religion to keep others under their control so why would they rock the boat? Or why would they change things when they suits them? Take this idea and apply it broadly and you will see the role rich and powerful people are playing to keep the power to themselves. They are well educated but their education serves them better to exploit their own people at their disposal even more for their own ends. Likewise do rich and powerful countries with poor and weak countries.

    There is no one single reason for the way in which we find our world. There are religious reasons and there are human reasons. If we want a better world then we must try and change things that do not let us make our world a better place. The main reason is undue exploitation of weak by the strong. Unless we all push for a just and fairer world, we are not going to get much further. The problem is only some poor and their sympathizers are willing to go that way and all others are just doing nothing.

    The rich world has plenty money to spend on arms but little to help built educational institutions in poor countries enabling them to become self supporting. They do not want poor world to become reasonably independent because then they will lose their power over that world. The people on top in the poor worlds are not held to account for unduly exploiting and manipulating their people and stealing their wealth away.

    So one can see that there are serious problems within muslims as well as within nonmuslims and in between them both.

    I am looking forward to the day when people will become truly free ie when all will become fair minded people to deal with matters pertaining to this world in a democratic way that is transparent. Human rights will be equally important for all humans and religions and states will be truly separate. The day when religious and nonreligious will all be accepted equal equal citizens of the state. When people would have learned to live in harmony and would cooperate for progress and prosperity.

    In the short term we should do whatever we can to help world move towards these goals no matter how small the step ie every little bit helps. In fact this is why we are here discussing things to see what we each can do to make our world a better place.

    I have simply brought up points that matter but they need to be discussed in detail so that we understand things better.

    regards and all the best.          

    I am a student of quran and islam and not an exmuslim.
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #17 - February 23, 2010, 07:49 AM

    Mughal I agree but I don't think the majority will do what you wish individually. It needs to be done a macro-level.

    My suggestions:

    All jihadi wars gone. They don't apply anymore.

    All people are treated the same. And in fact all people should be treated respectfully.

    Freedom of religion.

    All the punishments such as stoning, lashing and cutting hands gone.

    Seperation between state and church.

    Secular law, and not sharia law. Laws that can be changed and reformed.

    Muhammed is just a messanger, end of story. No need to emulate him in any manner.

    Full rights for women as for man.

    No more sects  Afro

    All rituals gone, no more halal slaughter, no more Kaaba even. If you wish to go to Hajj you are free to do so, its not obligatory.

    You can eat pork.

    You can drink but remember you are not allowed to harm anybody or yourself. So don't over do it. You have a responsibilty.

    Adam and Eve and Solomon and similar stories are not literal stories. Metaphorical.

    And then add all the good things that are in Islam we have mentioned in this forum.
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #18 - February 23, 2010, 09:36 AM


    Religions were invented and modified to serve some purposes to begin with and so long as the sense of those purposes remains alive, we cannot get ourselves rid of religions. So we need to bring about a group that offers a better alternative to religions. You do not leave your parents house till you have some place better to go. Alternatively you may be thrown out of your parental home because you do not live by the house rules or that you may so dislike the parental house rules that you just walk away without much forethought as to how you are going to survive etc etc.

    you make a good point, but man applied his dreams to an invisible being  without ever having to prove it e.g. in the real world as an atheist, nobody gets the chance to live again, the wicked do go indeed unpunished n the afterlife, and some of our dreams will never be fulfilled - how else can you offer these things without positing an imaginery & invisible dimension with preferred attributes  in the first place?

    As I said earlier the power of the fear, pride & hope meme is what will always keep religion, particlarly Islam, alive and there is little we can do to change it.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #19 - February 23, 2010, 09:39 AM

    I don't believe it cant be changed. I don't think it cant be removed. And saying people want to believe out of fear is ot true. People ahev to believe out of fear because they dont have any other alternatives. I am pretty sure there would be people that still believed or were cultural/secular muslims even without fear.

    Reformed scholars can change Islam
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #20 - February 23, 2010, 09:45 AM



    As I said earlier the power of the fear, pride & hope meme is what will always keep religion, particlarly Islam, alive and there is little we can do to change it.


    No way, Islam is not going to survive, you can see it crumbling from within even now.

    I think education will continue to kill it, people may want to believe, and for people in lands where humanity comes last, belief is usually based on fear, however in time even they (I mean just look at the people fighting for change in all of the countries that are behind on natural humane laws?  even in the face of persecution) will evolve to prefer a different form of belief.

    Belief based on fear is on it's way out.


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #21 - February 23, 2010, 09:47 AM

    And my love for that ass just grew stronger.
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #22 - February 23, 2010, 09:52 AM

    Send me a pic on a postcard then lol.  Wink

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #23 - February 23, 2010, 10:03 AM

    With this smiley?

     Smiley

     Smiley
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #24 - February 23, 2010, 09:46 PM

    BlackDog  starts a wonderful thread 
    Quote
    Let's make our own reformed version of Islam.

    Who wants to go first? We can later compile it and make it coherent. But brainstorm first.

    Even if you remove/slightly modify all those verses of Quran that you think are not useful(dangerous)., how would you answer guys like this one in this video BD??

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYkihuj3oyk

    or would it be good idea to go to UN and get such people banned speaking on web?? 

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #25 - February 23, 2010, 09:51 PM

    BlackDog  starts a wonderful thread  Even if you remove/slightly modify all those verses of Quran that you think are not useful(dangerous)., how would you answer guys like this one in this video BD??

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYkihuj3oyk

    or would it be good idea to go to UN and get such people banned speaking on web??  


    Hello my Dear Mr. Yeezevee, yes we must go to the UN and ban this guy.

    I hope you like our new reformed Islam. We are all really still Muslims at heart. Ask Ansar - he always knew that anyway.

    Hopefully we will be able to sell our new reformed Islam to children in Schools.

    I'm on the phone to Tariq Ramadan right now - he is good at soft sell - wouldn't you agree?

    OMG did I just say all that out loud? Damn!

    Please ignore everything I just said... in fact when you have finished reading this post - eat the computer.

    With kind regards and with best wishes my Dear Mr. Yeezevee  far away hug

    Note to self: "Remember Taqiyya at all times!"
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #26 - February 23, 2010, 09:55 PM

    Hello my Dear Mr. Yeezevee, yes we must go to the UN and ban this guy.


    Note to self: "Remember Taqiyya at all times!"


    Tutt tutt Hassan. Whilst you began your reply correctly, you neglected to end with :

    kind regards/ with best wishes
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #27 - February 23, 2010, 10:04 PM

    BlackDog  starts a wonderful thread  Even if you remove/slightly modify all those verses of Quran that you think are not useful(dangerous)., how would you answer guys like this one in this video BD??

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYkihuj3oyk

    or would it be good idea to go to UN and get such people banned speaking on web??  


    lol yeezevee i like his videos, i watched up 70 of them, in a row. i even somewhat remember his catch phrase

    that every word, every letter, ever verse is and was the fervent imaginations of muhammed...

    and lol i know islam is silly, so is the bible and every religion, how could they not be, they were made by men, several thousand years ago

    what i mean was that since Judaism and Christianity have gone through a reform why cant islam? and if so, what form will it take

    there are reformed versions of islam, and i have to believe that we can progress as a species, we can make mistakes, indeed i did one not long ago, but we can hopefully learn from them and not do them again

    islam needs to learn from its mistakes and it needs to know its place so it can move on, the other religions have understood this and the turn is for islam to understand its no different
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #28 - February 23, 2010, 10:15 PM

    Tutt tutt Hassan. Whilst you began your reply correctly, you neglected to end with :

    kind regards/ with best wishes


    How terribly remiss of me - I have fixed it now  Afro grin12
  • Re: The Reformed Islam of COEM
     Reply #29 - February 23, 2010, 10:28 PM

    dear Hassan & BD., "This reformation of Islam".. specially Quran., That is in my mind since the age of 6 .. Still remember., the day My grand father and grand mother died .. Suicide...  And they were not old.. ~48 to 55

    And when web became available and I became quite active in FFI ., Iwrote this ~ 8 years back in the first ffi forum..

    please read around  this link..  

    http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum2/viewtopic.php?p=3704#3704

    also in the 2nd ffi forum  http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/search.php?search_author=yeezevee  

    somewhere in those posts .. There is a folder by me on "Reformation and Editing Quran"

    And again in the 3rd FFI forum., I opened another thread on similar grounds..
    http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2669

    Unfortunately guys at FFI always countered me and answered me  with examples "such modified version of Quran will not survive and you will not survive"..
    Any way I am all for that.,

    Quote
    Hassan: Hello my Dear Mr. Yeezevee, yes we must go to the UN and ban this guy.

      But one has to think a bit,   If we ban that Guy, then later they may extend that to banning your videos,  After that forum like FFI and subsequently CEMB.

    Quote
    I hope you like our new reformed Islam. We are all really still Muslims at heart. Ask Ansar - he always knew that anyway.

     Off course I love it.  I am all for it., and I will contribute as much as I can for the success of such wonderful idea  dear Hassan.

    Quote
    Hopefully we will be able to sell our new reformed Islam to children in Schools.

    I'm on the phone to Tariq Ramadan right now - he is good at soft sell - wouldn't you agree?

      Children may be good idea, But I don't think Tariq Ramadan will fall for you.
    Quote
    OMG did I just say all that out loud? Damn!

    Please ignore everything I just said... in fact when you have finished reading this post - eat the computer.

    Note to self: "Remember Taqiyya at all times!"

     Lol.. I will send it to Tariq Ramadan to eat it., As far  you & Taqiyya is concerned., You are out of that business with your videos.  Without them there was a possibility.

    with best
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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