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Theme Changer

 Topic: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things

 (Read 18989 times)
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  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #60 - February 19, 2010, 02:51 PM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXdnD39GYVU
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #61 - February 19, 2010, 02:54 PM
    I'm sorry but I never grew up calling people Kafirs. It really annoys me. I was taught against splitting people up in this manner, was it my Shia upbringing, being part of a minority? No offense, but in my experience the Sunnis have used the word kaffir. Always to my shock and disgust, and silence. They were probably surprised I didn't agree.

    Bronze-aged mentality.
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #62 - February 19, 2010, 03:01 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on February 19, 2010, 02:51 PM
    It's like being a KKK member and calling out for a Universal Brotherhood while shouting hang niggers and burning crosses on people front-lawns.


    Its like that, but Muslims so often actually believe it. There are such layers of lunacy about this. They will tell the world that Islam preaches Universal Brotherhood, love for humanity (when it actually teaches contempt and hostility towards all non Muslim humanity) and equality. This rhetoric is so compounded in their minds, that they think its true, all the while considering people to be 'kuffar'. The complexities of this are needful of a full psychological study, its beyond the scope of a few posts here.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on April 30, 2011, 11:33 PM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #63 - February 19, 2010, 03:04 PM
    Quote from: billy on February 19, 2010, 03:01 PM
    The complexities of this are needful of a full psychological study, its beyond the scope of a few posts here.




    lol very true, and funny at the same time.
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #64 - February 19, 2010, 03:07 PM
    What's wrong with this picture.

    2 Muslims and their mutual non-muslim friends hanging out. One muslim whispers to other muslim you know they are kuffars right?


    1 muslim tourist in foreign european country tells another foreign muslim that the people of this country are kuffars, he says this while sipping from a beer bottle.

    Warm summer day. One muslim to another muslim, both living in a nice working class suburb. "They complain about the heat. The heat of hell will be worse. What will they say then?"
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #65 - February 19, 2010, 03:13 PM
    I have been called a Kafir more times than I can remember. Mostly by a guy who went mental when I stated that I do not fear Allah.
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #66 - February 19, 2010, 03:16 PM
    How did that make you feel?
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #67 - February 19, 2010, 03:16 PM
    Has anybody else here been called a kafir?
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #68 - February 19, 2010, 03:19 PM
    count me in
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  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #69 - February 19, 2010, 03:22 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on February 19, 2010, 03:07 PM
    What's wrong with this picture.

    2 Muslims and their mutual non-muslim friends hanging out. One muslim whispers to other muslim you know they are kuffars right?


    1 muslim tourist in foreign european country tells another foreign muslim that the people of this country are kuffars, he says this while sipping from a beer bottle.

    Warm summer day. One muslim to another muslim, both living in a nice working class suburb. "They complain about the heat. The heat of hell will be worse. What will they say then?"


    Its not that uncommon is it? They can't handle cognitively the situation they are in. They are taught that Islam is supreme, that non Muslims are arrogant, wicked people, immoral, deniers-of-the-truth......and yet the live in non Muslim societies. How can this clash of what they are taught to believe, even tacitly, even by the atmospherics of their upbringing, and the truth, which is that they live in a 'kuffar' society, amongst 'kuffars', and this society is successful, liberal, tolerant, that it is a good society that strives for the upliftment of its members - how can this not lead to anxieties and a hushed, whispered camaraderie about this? Its easier than questioning the stupidity of what they have been brought up to believe.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on April 30, 2011, 11:33 PM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #70 - February 19, 2010, 03:30 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on February 19, 2010, 03:16 PM
    How did that make you feel?

    At first it did upset me. It basically is a slur. But then I thought that there really is no point in me getting upset over somebody else’s stupidity.
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #71 - February 19, 2010, 03:33 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on February 19, 2010, 03:16 PM
    Has anybody else here been called a kafir?


    Yes - not really bothered (coz I know they are idiots) - but I agree with you, they shouldn't say it as it is clearly used as an insult.
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #72 - February 19, 2010, 03:44 PM
     
    Quote from: BlackDog on February 19, 2010, 02:37 PM
    Hey Bronze all jokes aside don't user the word kuffars any more.


    I used that term ironically only because people earlier in this thread were talking about Islam's view of the kuffar, perhaps I should have put it in quotes.   I find your sincerity sweet though if you were a more careful reader, you'd realize that I'm a kafir myself.  
     
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #73 - February 19, 2010, 03:45 PM
    Quote from: bronze on February 19, 2010, 03:44 PM

    I used that term ironically only because people earlier in this thread were talking about Islam's view of the kuffar, perhaps I should have put it in quotes.   I find your sincerity sweet though if you were a more careful reader, you'd realize that I'm a kafir myself.  
     


    lol *face-palm* well it was not easy to discern between me trolling, drinking my white russian and reminiscing on intolerance

    i forgive you

     grin12

  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #74 - February 19, 2010, 03:47 PM
    Quote from: bronze on February 19, 2010, 03:44 PM
    I find your sincerity sweet though if you were a more careful reader, you'd realize that I'm a kafir myself.  
     

    What a sweet turn of events  Cheesy
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  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #75 - February 19, 2010, 03:49 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on February 19, 2010, 03:47 PM
    What a sweet turn of events  Cheesy


    i know hey but honestly i dont think it was that easy to see... i mean the post of positive sides :S
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #76 - February 19, 2010, 04:10 PM
    I wish I'd posted "great musicians" in that thread as well, then when people objected I could point out that there have been highly respected pious Muslim exponents of Carnatic (Hindu) religious music.  e.g.
    http://www.esnips.com/doc/b5e8b733-a7c1-438a-b66d-57eeab85872e/Chinna-Moula---Padavenee-Salaga-Bhairavi

     
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #77 - February 19, 2010, 04:18 PM
    An individual has not started living until he can rise above the narrow confines of his individualistic concers to the broader concers of all Humanity - Martin Luther King, Jr

    It pains me that the Seal of Prophets did not say this in a hadith.
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #78 - February 19, 2010, 04:36 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on February 19, 2010, 03:49 PM
    i know hey but honestly i dont think it was that easy to see... i mean the post of positive sides :S


    I meant every one of them.  Just to take remarraige, if the question is "what's wrong with Islam", we can talk about how difficult it is for women to initiate divorce, how easy it is for men etc.  But if the question is "what do you like about Islam", I have to say that the idea of divorce and remarraige exists at all is something worth celebrating -- a hundred and some odd years ago, there were groups of radical men having debates over whether virgin chlid widows should be allowed to remarry!  If the question is "what is wrong with Islam," we can talk about Islamist violence.  But if we're going to say what we love, I have to say I LOVE the fact that Muslims showed brotherhood to non-converts who were otherwise despised by my society.  I could go on but I really did not expect to rack up so many posts.
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #79 - February 19, 2010, 04:40 PM
    In that case how about racking one more post with an introduction Wink
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  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #80 - February 19, 2010, 04:47 PM

    There are scholars who say that the humanist Bhakthi poets in the North were influenced by the egalitarianism of Islam, by the way.  I know, I know, the very phrase is shocking to your ears -- but regardless, what any text says and what believers make it mean in one "community of meaning" are two different things.

     
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #81 - February 19, 2010, 04:51 PM
    exactly - tell that to FFI
    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #82 - February 19, 2010, 05:00 PM

    Bronze, none of that says anything at all about the lie that Islam teaches ‘universal brotherhood’

    The truth is that humans are great – they can transcend with compassion the belief systems that weigh on them. For evangelists, the social conditions of various societies provide numerous opportunities for carrying out dawah amongst the dispossessed and downtrodden. But for every social situation like that, you could find countless examples that disprove it. So why not stick to what Islam actually teaches, and how these teachings manifest themselves in real social attitudes and realities in the modern world?

    To say that Islam teaches universal brotherhood is simply false – outrageously false. That's not to say that individual Muslims are not capable of breaking away from that binary, bigoted way of looking at the world. But Islam divinely ordains that kuffars are not only not the ‘brothers’ of Muslims, but they are ignorant and inferior, and only redeemable by converting to Islam.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on April 30, 2011, 11:33 PM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #83 - February 19, 2010, 05:06 PM
    God bless the fundies. They make religion easy to understand. And facilitate apostasy.
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #84 - February 19, 2010, 05:07 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on February 19, 2010, 05:06 PM
    God bless the fundies. They make religion easy to understand. And facilitate apostasy.


    Ameen - Ya rab!
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #85 - February 19, 2010, 05:32 PM


    What does "Islam divinely ordain" about making religious music -- for other religions?  And yet, and yet, there are COMMUNITIES, not just nice individuals, of believing Muslims who play Carnatic music.  There is a COMMUNITY of Muslims who trace their lineage to somewhere in the Mahabharatha (forgot name).  There are place and times where ahl-ul-kitab has included Sikhs, Hindus etc -- yes, doctrinally risible, I'm sorry that they didn't ask for my fatwa on the subject but it happened.  If Kabir was influenced by the egalitarianism of Islam, I guess I could back in time and be like, "dunn it's not that egalitarian, they have this whole kuffar thing, wait nobody explained that you, let me give you some Salafi mixtapes", but you know what, that seems a little besides the point.  The Meenakshipuram converts apostated and afaik nothing bad happened to them, should I notify a terror squad so that reality can be in line with your stereotypes?   When Kancha ILaiah talks about brotherhood -- unless you have some sort of research interest in Muslim theology in Dalit Bahujan communities of Andhra -- I suggest you sit down and learn something rather than pontificating. 
     
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #86 - February 19, 2010, 05:36 PM
    Quote from: bronze on February 19, 2010, 05:32 PM

    There are place and times where ahl-ul-kitab has included Sikhs, Hindus etc
     


    Sikhs cannot be ahl ul kitab because their religion started after Islam
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #87 - February 19, 2010, 05:38 PM

    bronze - don't knock pontificating, when you do it so much yourself  Afro

    Here is the money shot again:

    The truth is that humans are great – they can transcend with compassion the belief systems that weigh on them. For evangelists, the social conditions of various societies provide numerous opportunities for carrying out dawah amongst the dispossessed and downtrodden. But for every social situation like that, you could find countless examples that disprove it. So why not stick to what Islam actually teaches, and how these teachings manifest themselves in real social attitudes and realities in the modern world?

    To say that Islam teaches universal brotherhood is simply false – outrageously false. That's not to say that individual Muslims are not capable of breaking away from that binary, bigoted way of looking at the world. But Islam divinely ordains that kuffars are not only not the ‘brothers’ of Muslims, but they are ignorant and inferior, and only redeemable by converting to Islam.

    ++++

    I congratulate all those who loosened the stranglehold of divinely ordained non-brotherhood of humanity that the kuffar complex of Islam verifies - it speaks of the ability of men and women to revive innate humanistic sympathy despite the oppression of religious injunction. But it doesn't negate or change what is what, or what Islam teaches.




    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on April 30, 2011, 11:33 PM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

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