When were the verses about the Bible/Torah being corrupted revealed?

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- King Koopa
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When were the verses about the Bible/Torah being corrupted revealed?
OP - February 15, 2010, 01:36 PM

Was this in Mecca? Or in Medina?

The majority of the Biblical stories are Meccan stories HOWEVER this is far from the entire truth, since Medinan verses are interspersed with the Meccan verses in Meccan suras and vice-versa for Medinan suras and Meccan verses. So it's hard to tell.

I would guess the claims of Biblical corruption came during Medina, after Mohammed failed to get the Jews to see him as a prophet. And really not even regarding how the Bible/Torah were written rather I think Mohammed claimed they were corrupted because they mismatched with his Biblical stories and no mention of Allah for example. Or of him as a coming prophet. And so on.

Maybe the verse that the Christians corrupted their texts were early, as in Meccan, because of that Jesus was the son of God. But when did the verse about this corruption arrive? Also, when did the verses of Jewish scripture being corrupted arrive?
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Re: When was the verses about the Bible/Torah being corrupted revealed?
Reply #1 - February 15, 2010, 01:40 PM

I dont see that it would make any difference - as muslims would argue that the verse was revealed at the right time by Allah so Jews would convert

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Re: When were the verses about the Bible/Torah being corrupted revealed?
Reply #2 - February 15, 2010, 01:47 PM

Quote from: IsLame on February 15, 2010, 01:40 PM
I dont see that it would make any difference - as muslims would argue that the verse was revealed at the right time by Allah so Jews would convert

I see how it can make a difference because the claims of corruption is not accurate in the manner Mohammad claims them to have happened. More importantly the motivation of corruption/alteration and the actual content being corrupted is historically incorrect.

Plus, it shows the psychological framework of a human and not the Omniscience of a God. Revelations revealed after an incident? How can this be a prophecy of any sort? Is God communicating with Mohammad as a fight coach after every round? Should God not have prepared Mohammad so he knew exactly how and when the enemy would strike, and teach him how to block in advance?

IE Before he says what was revealed to you was true, and we are friends. After, he says we are no longer friends and your scriptures are corrupted. In the first instance he is weak and needs to make friends. In the second, he is strong and needs no more friends. He was angered and ridiculed in both instances.

You might be able to answer anything with faith, but it's perverse to deny history.
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Re: When were the verses about the Bible/Torah being corrupted revealed?
Reply #3 - February 15, 2010, 02:34 PM

Quote from: BlackDog on February 15, 2010, 01:47 PM
I see how it can make a difference because the claims of corruption is not accurate in the manner Mohammad claims them to have happened. More importantly the motivation of corruption/alteration and the actual content being corrupted is historically incorrect.

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Plus, it shows the psychological framework of a human and not the Omniscience of a God.

Yes, but we can already argue this without needing to know the order in which it occurred

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Revelations revealed after an incident? How can this be a prophecy of any sort? Is God communicating with Mohammad as a fight coach after every round?

Yes, Muslims already know Allah used Mo as a vehicle for spreading the message. Why is already a question you can ask them without answering the question.

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Should God not have prepared Mohammad so he knew exactly how and when the enemy would strike, and teach him how to block in advance?

A better question before you get there is why not convert them magically in the first place

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Before he says what was revealed to you was true,

Did he say that, or are you infering that from him not saying anything? Like I said, muslims will just say Allah revealed verses in the order that they would be required and might even prove the case of the omnicience of God.

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Re: When were the verses about the Bible/Torah being corrupted revealed?
Reply #4 - February 15, 2010, 05:34 PM

Quote from: IsLame on February 15, 2010, 02:34 PM
I see how it can make a difference because the claims of corruption is not accurate in the manner Mohammad claims them to have happened. More importantly the motivation of corruption/alteration and the actual content being corrupted is historically incorrect.

A Christian will say the Bible is the word of God. Written by men who received the Holy Spirit.

This is not historically accurate.

A Muslim will say A Christian/Jew altered their scriptures.

This is not historically accurate either.

But you can infer that Christians/Jews altered their scriptures or they are man-made etc. But you can only make this point up to a certain point. That's why Mohammad said they have altered it, not that it's totally false. Because then he could not rely on it. So Muslims will criticize the Bible only to a certain level.

The last point, I think there are verses which say the previous scriptures where a true guidance. In any case it began in a more flattering light and some how later in his life the message changed to scriptures having being altered.
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Re: When were the verses about the Bible/Torah being corrupted revealed?
Reply #5 - February 15, 2010, 07:05 PM

This is what Mohammed meant with corrupted texts:

Quran 61:6
And when Isa son of Marium said: O children of Israel! surely I am the apostle of Allah to you, verifying that which is before me of the Taurat and giving the good news of an Apostle who will come after me, his name being Ahmad, but when he came to them with clear arguments they said: This is clear magic.

This is a clear fucking lie.
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