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 Topic: A question to former practising Muslims

 (Read 4339 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • A question to former practising Muslims
     OP - December 28, 2009, 02:24 PM
    Assalamu Alykum Warahmatuallah Wabarakatahu!!  grin12

    I want to ask a question I had in mind.

    When you were Muslims, whether practising or not, did you ever pray Salat Al Istikhara?

    And if so, did you see any signs following such prayer?

    I'm wondering if that can be proof of anything? Like proof of the existance of Allah?

    For those who understand, no explanation is necessary. For those who refuse to understand, no explanation is possible.
  • Re: A question to former practising Muslims
     Reply #1 - December 28, 2009, 02:31 PM
    Quote
    I'm wondering if that can be proof of anything? Like proof of the existance of Allah?


    I never did it, but even if I had, and I had felt some guidance afterwards, I wouldn't call it possible proof of god.

    The guidance merely comes from within, the answer, something you may have considered already.  That training of clearing your mind just before prayer, is the key.  You are blanking your mind out, focusing on this one isue you need guidance on from god, and yet all it really is is your mind taking advantage of the quiet to come to your own natural solution.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: A question to former practising Muslims
     Reply #2 - December 28, 2009, 02:33 PM
    No I did not.

    Most of the time I just asked for guidance in my prayer after Salat.
  • Re: A question to former practising Muslims
     Reply #3 - December 28, 2009, 04:31 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on December 28, 2009, 02:31 PM
    I never did it, but even if I had, and I had felt some guidance afterwards, I wouldn't call it possible proof of god.

    The guidance merely comes from within, the answer, something you may have considered already.  That training of clearing your mind just before prayer, is the key.  You are blanking your mind out, focusing on this one isue you need guidance on from god, and yet all it really is is your mind taking advantage of the quiet to come to your own natural solution.



    No, that's not what my question refers too.

    I'm talking about signs, such as the colours one sees in their dream which is supposed to indicate positive or negative? With White/Green being positive - Red/Black being negative.. Signs such as those, which don't usually appear, and supposedly appears after reciting Salat Al Istikhara.
    For those who understand, no explanation is necessary. For those who refuse to understand, no explanation is possible.
  • Re: A question to former practising Muslims
     Reply #4 - December 28, 2009, 04:34 PM
    Quote from: _truth_ on December 28, 2009, 02:33 PM
    No I did not.

    Most of the time I just asked for guidance in my prayer after Salat.

    Did you ever feel any of your Du'as was actually answered? That you were ever guided?
    For those who understand, no explanation is necessary. For those who refuse to understand, no explanation is possible.
  • Re: A question to former practising Muslims
     Reply #5 - December 28, 2009, 04:36 PM
    I did it, and usually I would end up making the decision that was the most logical/beneficial, and take my realization of which one it was as the answer. Tongue
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: A question to former practising Muslims
     Reply #6 - December 28, 2009, 05:24 PM
    My family used to do this and apparently it worked something like this:
    - If you saw any green or white objects it meant do the thing
    - If you saw any red or black objects or even the color itself, it meant don't do it

    So this is hardly a proof of anything, almost every dream will have one of those colors in an object even without doing that prayer  Cheesy.

    I remember as a kid I would feel mad at why god won't show a real sign because to me this always seemed very interesting.

    Also, my family and the moulvi had a lot of interesting justifications for why you might sometimes not remember your dreams or not see any of those colors/objects. I.e you had to keep saying the prayers for 1 week (or may be 2 weeks) and in one of the nights if you see anything that's the answer.
  • Re: A question to former practising Muslims
     Reply #7 - December 28, 2009, 05:39 PM
    Quote from: Ibn Saba on December 28, 2009, 02:24 PM
    Assalamu Alykum Warahmatuallah Wabarakatahu!!  grin12

    I want to ask a question I had in mind.

    When you were Muslims, whether practising or not, did you ever pray Salat Al Istikhara?



    Yes.


    Quote
    And if so, did you see any signs following such prayer?


    Yes.

    Quote
    I'm wondering if that can be proof of anything? Like proof of the existance of Allah?


    No.

    Before you go to sleep. Focus on something and you will more likely to dream about it.

    Challenge All Ideologies but don't Hate People.
  • Re: A question to former practising Muslims
     Reply #8 - December 28, 2009, 06:07 PM
    I did but I didn't know about these "signs". God, could you be more vague?

    Funny thing, I did a few times, and the last time I did it I was told if you do this or not doit might be a good thing or it might not be a good thing.  Roll Eyes

    So I decided to do what I was asking for, and the results were horrible lol I never did another isthikare after that in fact had major doubts about it. Because of the extreme vagueness around the whole method. I felt very uneasy anytime it was mentioned after this little disaster. I also thought, it's much better to use logic and rational for dealing with situations.The method I used was opening the Quran randomly and picking a verse, I think the first verse? And if it doesn't make sense, then do it again. Maybe I never did it properly and that's why it didn't work  Cheesy
  • Re: A question to former practising Muslims
     Reply #9 - December 28, 2009, 06:43 PM
    blackdog, want to tell us what happened?  Tongue
  • Re: A question to former practising Muslims
     Reply #10 - December 28, 2009, 06:59 PM
    I wanted to know if I should pursue my love for this particular girl. I went for it and told her I was in love with her, she ended up not talking to me for months  Cheesy

    I learned one thing from this, the Quran is not a good book on relationships. Unless you're a slave master.

    Dear Allah
    I'm crushing on this girl like hella mad. And I don't know how to approach her. Some of my friends say be a man and just go for it. Other say be easy, and ask her out on a date. If she says no then respect that and move on. Maybe, she'll change her mind in the future and will take the first step. In any case you need to move on.

    I'm so confused!! Please advise me Smiley

    Regards
    Star-crossed lover

    Dear Star-crossed lover

    Sorry for not getting back to you earlier, I've been busy dictating my eternal word to a 7th century schmuck who keeps forgetting what I''ve passed on to him and hasn't yet learned how to read and write. *sigh* It might be middle-management fucking things up, but I doubt it (I can doubt, I am God after all. The Most Doubtful) Gabriel has been pretty trustworthy in the past and I find no reason for this to have changed.

    Here's my solution to your dilemma.

    Men are in charge of women, because Allah has made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah has guarded. As for those from whom you fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High Exalted, Great.

    Have fun Wink

    Bestest Regards
    The Most Merciful
  • Re: A question to former practising Muslims
     Reply #11 - December 28, 2009, 07:03 PM
    LOL!! Cheesy dance

    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 03:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: A question to former practising Muslims
     Reply #12 - December 28, 2009, 07:09 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on December 28, 2009, 06:59 PM
    I wanted to know if I should pursue my love for this particular girl. I went for it and told her I was in love with her, she ended up not talking to me for months  Cheesy

    I learned one thing from this, the Quran is not a good book on relationships. Unless you're a slave master.

    Dear Allah
    I'm crushing on this girl like hella mad. And I don't know how to approach her. Some of my friends say be a man and just go for it. Other say be easy, and ask her out on a date. If she says no then respect that and move on. Maybe, she'll change her mind in the future and will take the first step. In any case you need to move on.

    I'm so confused!! Please advise me Smiley

    Regards
    Star-crossed lover

    Dear Star-crossed lover

    Sorry for not getting back to you earlier, I've been busy dictating my eternal word to a 7th century schmuck who keeps forgetting what I''ve passed on to him and hasn't yet learned how to read and write. *sigh* It might be middle-management fucking things up, but I doubt it (I can doubt, I am God after all. The Most Doubtful) Gabriel has been pretty trustworthy in the past and I find no reason for this to have changed.

    Here's my solution to your dilemma.

    Men are in charge of women, because Allah has made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah has guarded. As for those from whom you fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High Exalted, Great.

    Have fun Wink

    Bestest Regards
    The Most Merciful

    Dude. You're a genius. You should start AskAllah website or something  Cheesy Cheesy

    Oh BTW. If you told this story to a Muslim as a refutation of Istikhara, they will probably tell you that you wanted to do something Haram(A non-mahram-supervised relationship), and you can't consult Allah about what he has forbade you from doing in the first place.
    Just though I'd warn you not to use it when debating/arguing with someone.
    "In every time and culture there are pressures to conform to the prevailing prejudices. But there are also, in every place and epoch, those who value the truth; who record the evidence faithfully. Future generations are in their debt." -Carl Sagan

  • Re: A question to former practising Muslims
     Reply #13 - December 28, 2009, 07:10 PM
    ROTFL AskAllah website  Cheesy

    And his side-kick Mohammad the Love-Guru  Cheesy
  • Re: A question to former practising Muslims
     Reply #14 - December 28, 2009, 07:11 PM
    Quote from: Infidel on December 28, 2009, 07:09 PM
    Dude. You're a genius. You should start AskAllah website or something  Cheesy Cheesy


    Seriously, if you want to start a satirical website like www.askallah.com, I'm down to help. Serious!
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 03:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: A question to former practising Muslims
     Reply #15 - December 28, 2009, 07:12 PM
    ROTFL I'm having a hard time typing right now  Cheesy
  • Re: A question to former practising Muslims
     Reply #16 - December 29, 2009, 12:39 AM
    Quote from: Ibn Saba on December 28, 2009, 02:24 PM
    When you were Muslims, whether practising or not, did you ever pray Salat Al Istikhara?


    Once, thinking it was what I was told it was, and then a few times afterwards out of form and adaab.

    Quote
    And if so, did you see any signs following such prayer?


    No, b/c it's a waste of time praying to something that doesn't exist.  Frankly, I think 98% of the people who claim they experienced a vision or dream are liars. 
    [this space for rent]
  • Re: A question to former practising Muslims
     Reply #17 - December 29, 2009, 12:51 AM
    Quote from: Ibn Saba on December 28, 2009, 02:24 PM
    did you ever pray Salat Al Istikhara?

    no but i used to pray with very much sincerity(i used to cry), but that was when i was 7 or so.
    Quote from: Ibn Saba on December 28, 2009, 02:24 PM
    did you see any signs following such prayer?

    nop
    Quote from: Ibn Saba on December 28, 2009, 02:24 PM
    I'm wondering if that can be proof of anything? Like proof of the existance of Allah?

    x -> y (false)
  • Re: A question to former practising Muslims
     Reply #18 - December 29, 2009, 03:33 AM
    Quote
    When you were Muslims, whether practising or not, did you ever pray Salat Al Istikhara?


    Yes

    Quote
    And if so, did you see any signs following such prayer?


    The "sign" that tou are talking about isn't like the naked native american in Waynes World 2. It's usually how you feel about a decision that you need to make. Even without the assumption of istikhara, how many times have you been in a situation where you needed to make a decision but couldn't? You then thought "I'll sleep on it" Then in the morning you are in favour or against the decision? The assumption of prayer or istikhara wasn't present.

    Quote
    I'm wondering if that can be proof of anything? Like proof of the existance of Allah?


    I really do think it's a non-sequitor. One must be completely objective and avoid any kind of solipsism when trying to see that as a proof. Look, there are people around the world who are non-muslims but believe in a God from whatever respective religion they belong to. Does the answering of their prayer mean that Yahweh, Ram, Krishna, Ahura Mazda and Zeus exist?

    Quote
    Did you ever feel any of your Du'as was actually answered? That you were ever guided?


    Yes, there was a prayer that was answered and it involved the decision of another person. If one thinks further, they will see that the prayer usually involves a decision which is 50-50. It'll happen or it won't. Then one must also see if what you are asking for, is contingent upon something else other than the prayer? Then there is the type of reaction that comes from a prayer not being answered, which is that "Allah knows best, maybe his not granting me this dua this time has some sort of benefit for me?" So, when an answer like that is given, you are not even given a chance to think that you might be praying to a non-existent entity.
  • Re: A question to former practising Muslims
     Reply #19 - December 29, 2009, 05:43 AM
    Quote from: BlackDog on December 28, 2009, 07:10 PM
    ROTFL AskAllah website  Cheesy

    And his side-kick Mohammad the Love-Guru  Cheesy


    Hey, you should really start this, this is a great idea! I'm a web developer so I can help you with it for free, PM me if you want to discuss it  grin12
  • Re: A question to former practising Muslims
     Reply #20 - December 29, 2009, 06:39 PM
    Quote from: Ibn Saba on December 28, 2009, 04:34 PM
    Did you ever feel any of your Du'as was actually answered? That you were ever guided?


    not even one prayer.

    however whenever I put my mind to something, and hoped for something, it usually happened....

    I think people just confuse confidence/hope/ambition for god.
    Closets after closets
  • Re: A question to former practising Muslims
     Reply #21 - December 29, 2009, 06:41 PM
    Quote from: Kafirist on December 28, 2009, 07:11 PM
    Seriously, if you want to start a satirical website like www.askallah.com, I'm down to help. Serious!


    SOMEBODY PLEASE make this! we could all send in our questions and allah will guide us in the "right way"
    Closets after closets
  • Re: A question to former practising Muslims
     Reply #22 - January 05, 2010, 12:07 AM
    Quote from: Omaar Khayaam on December 29, 2009, 03:33 AM
    Yes

    The "sign" that tou are talking about isn't like the naked native american in Waynes World 2. It's usually how you feel about a decision that you need to make. Even without the assumption of istikhara, how many times have you been in a situation where you needed to make a decision but couldn't? You then thought "I'll sleep on it" Then in the morning you are in favour or against the decision? The assumption of prayer or istikhara wasn't present.

    I really do think it's a non-sequitor. One must be completely objective and avoid any kind of solipsism when trying to see that as a proof. Look, there are people around the world who are non-muslims but believe in a God from whatever respective religion they belong to. Does the answering of their prayer mean that Yahweh, Ram, Krishna, Ahura Mazda and Zeus exist?

    Yes, there was a prayer that was answered and it involved the decision of another person. If one thinks further, they will see that the prayer usually involves a decision which is 50-50. It'll happen or it won't. Then one must also see if what you are asking for, is contingent upon something else other than the prayer? Then there is the type of reaction that comes from a prayer not being answered, which is that "Allah knows best, maybe his not granting me this dua this time has some sort of benefit for me?" So, when an answer like that is given, you are not even given a chance to think that you might be praying to a non-existent entity.

    I enjoyed reading this response. Thank you for taking your time to reply.
    For those who understand, no explanation is necessary. For those who refuse to understand, no explanation is possible.
  • Re: A question to former practising Muslims
     Reply #23 - January 05, 2010, 12:08 AM
    Thanks to all for responding to my questions. I appreciate that.
    For those who understand, no explanation is necessary. For those who refuse to understand, no explanation is possible.
  • Re: A question to former practising Muslims
     Reply #24 - January 05, 2010, 12:10 AM
    Quote from: Manat
    No, b/c it's a waste of time praying to something that doesn't exist.  Frankly, I think 98% of the people who claim they experienced a vision or dream are liars.


    You see, that's a problem I've had when listening to the claims some people make. How can I prove they are liars? Many people have said they've experienced a vision/seen a dream, after reciting Salat Al-Istikhara. Is all of this lies?
    For those who understand, no explanation is necessary. For those who refuse to understand, no explanation is possible.
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