Was Muhammad crazy?

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Was Muhammad crazy?
OP - December 31, 2009, 05:42 AM

Muhammad heard voices in his head and these voices told Muhammad that his religion was a continuation of Judaism and Christianity and that those who followed these outdated religions should be converted or killed. Since he forgot about Zoroastrianism, he apparently thought that his religion was the third and final in the monotheistic trilogy. And being the third, it is inevitably the most shitty of the three (think Spiderman 3 or The Matrix Revolutions, not The Godfather III ).

What do you think? i think he was crazy
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Re: Was Muhammad crazy?
Reply #1 - December 31, 2009, 06:49 AM

I think that he had a epiphany one day and decided to spread his idea around; I would love to know at what point did the Qur'an get defined as being the 'literal word of allah', did Muhammad say it? he claims it was not of his own creation but does that mean he didn't think it up but instead he claims that the idea came into his head by an external source? many of them were dreams - were they merely the results of stories he heard on his trade routes and resulted in them culminating together in a dream which he thought was a vision?

As for the miraculous nature; considering how repetitive and broken the language is, it sounds like a series of spontaneous bursts of ideas rather than something coherently bought down from the heavens.

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Re: Was Muhammad crazy?
Reply #2 - December 31, 2009, 06:51 AM

Naw, he was a clever and cunning fucker.

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.
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Re: Was Muhammad crazy?
Reply #3 - December 31, 2009, 06:55 AM

Quote from: Kafirist on December 31, 2009, 06:51 AM
Naw, he was a clever and cunning fucker.

And a nymphomaniac - which funny enough seems to be an attribute for alot of charismatic leaders throughout the ages.

"It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
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Re: Was Muhammad crazy?
Reply #4 - December 31, 2009, 07:04 AM

Probably, in a Charles Manson kind of way. By that I mean not completely psychotic, but maybe narcissistic personality disorder, or some other mental disorder.
That seems closest to his psychological profile.

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superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
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Re: Was Muhammad crazy?
Reply #5 - December 31, 2009, 07:08 AM

Charles Manson and Dave Koresh in sand basically. I wouldn't compare him to Hubbard though, Hubbard was fucking creative.

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.
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Re: Was Muhammad crazy?
Reply #6 - December 31, 2009, 07:10 AM

Quote from: Kafirist on December 31, 2009, 07:08 AM
Charles Manson and Dave Koresh in sand basically. I wouldn't compare him to Hubbard though, Hubbard was fucking creative.

The funny part about Hubbard is some of the leaked lectures that have been made available; I swear it is as though he was seeing how far he could push the envelop as to how crazy and nutty his story could become before people started to leave.

"It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
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Re: Was Muhammad crazy?
Reply #7 - December 31, 2009, 07:19 AM

The Qur'an confirms that the people of Mecca, before being forced into Islam, thought Muhammad was mad:

Q44:14 They had turned away from him and said: ?One taught by others, a madman!?
Q25:41 And when they see you, they treat you only with mockery
Q21:5 They say: ?These are mixed up false dreams! Nay, he has invented it!

Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
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Re: Was Muhammad crazy?
Reply #8 - December 31, 2009, 10:13 AM

Sure Allah's Messenger [sal] is crazy but it's a crazy world. It's just Muhammad's conception of the Mystery. Only problem is al-Ikhlas says that you can't conceptualise god: "and none is like unto Him" but we can't not conceptualise god can we? Don't we approach everything through language? And anyway it's contradictory cause there are hadiths that say you can see God.

I think Muhammad just thought about the world and how there's beautiful cannabis plants and yet children starve; then he wrote the Koran. How many times does the Qur'an say "Reflect upon...." something. Trees? Stars? I think even the camel is mentioned in there. That's why you have such a dichotomous approach because this was his way of making sense of the beautiful tragedy that's life. Even the names of Allah - al-Rahim and al-Dar, al-Wadud and al-Qahhar. This "kind/tyrant" approach is the same in all the Abrahamic religions.

Then you have people like ibn Arabi and Haji Bektash who just had a totally new religion even though they quoted Coran. And they have Sunni and Shia fans who look to them and think - yeah, this way I can follow something good but still not have to ditch that Muhammad and Islam bagagge that I've been saddled with. In times gone by it was easier to ignore the more evil hadiths etc. (they weren't online) so we could even believe in the "Muhammadan Reality" and shit. Now that the Muhammadan reality is known, in the more mundane sense, the Honorable Elijah Muhammad (PBUH) and Clarence Allah (SWT) are now finding acceptance among non-African Americans in an attempt to distance oneself futher still from Muhammad's sunnah.

The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
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Re: Was Muhammad crazy?
Reply #9 - December 31, 2009, 01:30 PM

I think that Sam Harris sums it all up very well -

"It is merely an accident of history that it is considered normal in our society to believe that the Creator of the universe can hear your thoughts while it is demonstrative of mental illness to believe that he is communicating with you by having the rain tap in Morse code on your bedroom window"

If a patient discusses hearing voices, hallucinations, messages from angels then we would be sufficiently concerned to admit them urgently. When we read that Mohammed had similar experiences, we call it a divine prophethood.
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Re: Was Muhammad crazy?
Reply #10 - December 31, 2009, 09:42 PM

Aha! so he was crazy..

soo does that mean Joan of Arc, all the prophets in abrahamic religion ofcource, were all crazy?
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Re: Was Muhammad crazy?
Reply #11 - January 01, 2010, 05:02 PM

Not totally psychopathic but maybe a narcissist, all those who think they hear God saying things to them is to some degree either deluding themselves and/or has serious depression and mental problems. Muhammad despised the polytheism of his fellow paan tribes so I think creating his own religion was in some way comforting to him and a way for him to eradicate the previous ideologies in Arabia especially Paganism. Not easy to point on one trigger for what led him to spawn a new religion, a combination of a lot of factors i guesss.

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Re: Was Muhammad crazy?
Reply #12 - February 15, 2010, 08:49 PM

Quote from: abdalwali on December 31, 2009, 10:13 AM
Sure Allah's Messenger [sal] is crazy but it's a crazy world. It's just Muhammad's conception of the Mystery. Only problem is al-Ikhlas says that you can't conceptualise god: "and none is like unto Him" but we can't not conceptualise god can we? Don't we approach everything through language? And anyway it's contradictory cause there are hadiths that say you can see God.

I think Muhammad just thought about the world and how there's beautiful cannabis plants and yet children starve; then he wrote the Koran. How many times does the Qur'an say "Reflect upon...." something. Trees? Stars? I think even the camel is mentioned in there. That's why you have such a dichotomous approach because this was his way of making sense of the beautiful tragedy that's life. Even the names of Allah - al-Rahim and al-Dar, al-Wadud and al-Qahhar. This "kind/tyrant" approach is the same in all the Abrahamic religions.

Then you have people like ibn Arabi and Haji Bektash who just had a totally new religion even though they quoted Coran. And they have Sunni and Shia fans who look to them and think - yeah, this way I can follow something good but still not have to ditch that Muhammad and Islam bagagge that I've been saddled with. In times gone by it was easier to ignore the more evil hadiths etc. (they weren't online) so we could even believe in the "Muhammadan Reality" and shit. Now that the Muhammadan reality is known, in the more mundane sense, the Honorable Elijah Muhammad (PBUH) and Clarence Allah (SWT) are now finding acceptance among non-African Americans in an attempt to distance oneself futher still from Muhammad's sunnah.

I googled Clarence Allah and saw this youtube video. I don't think I have lol'd more in my life. I can never look at Wu-Tang the same way anymore:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKgbA0Rmnsw

They use phrases like As Salam Aleikom, INshallah for a guy that that uses Allah as a surname. Reminds me of a Ras Kass Song

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The chicken or the egg?
The arm leg leg arm-a head
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Re: Was Muhammad crazy?
Reply #13 - February 15, 2010, 10:08 PM

no he was very smart and manipulative. He knew what to say to get people to believe his dogma in which he succeeded. If you look at the Quran, the later chapter of the Surahs Muhammad seems to have a lot of more power in them
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Re: Was Muhammad crazy?
Reply #14 - February 15, 2010, 10:27 PM

Quote from: abuk on December 31, 2009, 01:30 PM
I think that Sam Harris sums it all up very well -

"It is merely an accident of history that it is considered normal in our society to believe that the Creator of the universe can hear your thoughts while it is demonstrative of mental illness to believe that he is communicating with you by having the rain tap in Morse code on your bedroom window"

If a patient discusses hearing voices, hallucinations, messages from angels then we would be sufficiently concerned to admit them urgently. When we read that Mohammed had similar experiences, we call it a divine prophethood.

This is merely reflective of the beliefs of a culture. Even today, talking of hearing voices or expressing that you bring the message of G-d will be viewed as a sign of piety and divinity in some parts of the world whereas in other parts, such as the Western world, the general consensus lies not with witchcraft, demons and God but rather with organised investigative and objective thought to explain things.
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