Try to defeat my God, I dare ye!

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- Rubaiyat
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Re: Try to defeat my God, I dare ye!
Reply #90 - January 02, 2010, 12:43 PM

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I have my reasons.

Then we have reasons too.

Back to square one :-) He he :-)

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On this site you generally attack religion and feel you know that it is bad etc etc.

No. I am not one of them. Religions are not wholly bad or wholly good.

I don't see religion as human weakness as Hitchens does or root of all evil in the world etc.

If religion was a weakness then evolution would have got rid off it and if it was wholly evil it would not last that long.

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If you take such a clear position surely you should be able to defend it.

You see I don't "believe" there is no God.

I see no evidence for a God.

I reject all beliefs.

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If you don't have "proof" as you would put it wouldnt it be better to hold your counsel?

I am not interested in proof. For humans "certainty" can be a psychological thing and not necessarly based on objectively verifiable evidence.

I am only interested in Evidence.

And there is no Evidence for a God.

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- lightrays
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Re: Try to defeat my God, I dare ye!
Reply #91 - January 02, 2010, 12:44 PM

The poster wanted to defeat God (delusions of grandeur!!!) but I am glad you accept that is silly and not possible. Arrogance and belliegerence is far too prevelant in our world far better to look for common ground.
- lightrays
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Re: Try to defeat my God, I dare ye!
Reply #92 - January 02, 2010, 12:47 PM

Quote from: IsLame on January 02, 2010, 12:42 PM
who says we dont have proof? most of us believe the quran is manmade.

You said you dont have proof and indeed as you say you "believe" the quran is man made.
- Saif Rahman
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Re: Try to defeat my God, I dare ye!
Reply #93 - January 02, 2010, 12:54 PM

no i didnt? is this better, i KNOW the quran IS 100% manmade

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- lightrays
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Re: Try to defeat my God, I dare ye!
Reply #94 - January 02, 2010, 12:57 PM

dear dear what a lame reply.... that will only beg the question 'how do you know?' do you really wanna go down that road?
- Rubaiyat
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Re: Try to defeat my God, I dare ye!
Reply #95 - January 02, 2010, 01:04 PM

Quote from: lightrays on January 02, 2010, 12:44 PM
The poster wanted to defeat God (delusions of grandeur!!!) but I am glad you accept that is silly and not possible. Arrogance and belliegerence is far too prevelant in our world far better to look for common ground.

I think you misunderstood the thread.

The poster put a question so that the we can discuss whether the Idea of God is coherent.

It's nothing to do with being arrogant etc.

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- Rubaiyat
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Re: Try to defeat my God, I dare ye!
Reply #96 - January 02, 2010, 01:07 PM

Quote from: lightrays on January 02, 2010, 12:57 PM
dear dear what a lame reply.... that will only beg the question 'how do you know?' do you really wanna go down that road?

If you think Quran is God made then this could be interesting debate.

Lets open a thread shall we?

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- Saif Rahman
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Re: Try to defeat my God, I dare ye!
Reply #97 - January 02, 2010, 01:08 PM

Quote from: lightrays on January 02, 2010, 12:57 PM
dear dear what a lame reply.... that will only beg the question 'how do you know?' do you really wanna go down that road?

i dont mind

answer:

because a devinely dictated script by Allah would not

a) contradict itself
b) make false statements

nor would he choose his religion to be led by a polygamous murdering prophet who had penchant for kids

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Re: Try to defeat my God, I dare ye!
Reply #98 - January 02, 2010, 01:14 PM

Well actually God could contradict himself etc. And alternatively you could not really understand and therefore make a mistaken judgement. I would tend to the latter. Either way it is your belief here not a proof..
- Rubaiyat
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Re: Try to defeat my God, I dare ye!
Reply #99 - January 02, 2010, 01:20 PM

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Well actually God could contradict himself etc.

That's your best argument? :-)

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And alternatively you could not really understand

Is that your second best argument? :-)

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I would tend to the latter.

Is that your Third Best Argument?

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Either way it is your belief here not a proof..

And finally that's your cop out? :-)

I believe I believe I believe now - Lightrays - you have shown me the Light :-)

Praise the Lord!!!

I bow down to ye God I believe I believe !!!!

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Re: Try to defeat my God, I dare ye!
Reply #100 - January 02, 2010, 01:22 PM

Quote from: lightrays on January 02, 2010, 01:14 PM
Well actually God could contradict himself etc. And alternatively you could not really understand and therefore make a mistaken judgement. I would tend to the latter.

No, an omnipotent & omnicient being (he is, isnt he? if he isnt't then that another contradiction in the quran) would not contradict itself.
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Either way it is your belief here not a proof..

yes, i never said they were the proofs? they were conclusions and an explanation of your previous question.

Moving on, there are literally hundreds of them, so many of them that it would go into pages here. But you could start by watching my quranic sceince and scientific miracles videos. kthnxbai.

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- lightrays
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Re: Try to defeat my God, I dare ye!
Reply #101 - January 02, 2010, 01:23 PM

its Islame who wants to convince. He claims to KNOW. I don't make any such claim
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Re: Try to defeat my God, I dare ye!
Reply #102 - January 02, 2010, 01:26 PM

Oh sorry misunderstood you its the odd way you develop your thoughts. Ok so you said you belive but then that you know and then you come back to saying you believe. Or at least that you "never said they were proofs". So Am I now correct to say you belive the quaran is false based on your well developed intellect.
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Re: Try to defeat my God, I dare ye!
Reply #103 - January 02, 2010, 01:29 PM

I think I probably know most of your arguments and suffice to say I don't regard them as credible but it is enough to agree to disagree. You believe your faith and I belive mine. "For you your religion and for me mine".
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Re: Try to defeat my God, I dare ye!
Reply #104 - January 02, 2010, 01:32 PM

I am curious however to learn how you KNOW things you cant PROVE. And am not making fun here I genuinely accept that is possible
- Saif Rahman
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Re: Try to defeat my God, I dare ye!
Reply #105 - January 02, 2010, 01:37 PM

Quote from: lightrays on January 02, 2010, 01:26 PM
Oh sorry misunderstood you its the odd way you develop your thoughts. Ok so you said you belive but then that you know and then you come back to saying you believe. Or at least that you "never said they were proofs". So

You picking at straws here Its irrelevent, Islam is bollocks which ever way you want to look at it

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Am I now correct to say you belive the quaran is false based on your well developed intellect.

No. You're so desperate to win, that you are trying to put words into my mouth You need to do better than that in order to prove 7th century hearsay is the word of the Lord.

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- Saif Rahman
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Re: Try to defeat my God, I dare ye!
Reply #106 - January 02, 2010, 01:39 PM

Quote from: lightrays on January 02, 2010, 01:32 PM
I am curious however to learn how you KNOW things you cant PROVE. And am not making fun here I genuinely accept that is possible

You have misunderstood. I tried to clarify, but it still sounds like you dont understand.

i) I knowIslam is false
ii) I dont know if there is a supernatural creator

The 2 points are NOT mutually exclusive, as you seem to believe

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- lightrays
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Re: Try to defeat my God, I dare ye!
Reply #107 - January 02, 2010, 01:46 PM

Sorry you are doing it again. Are you now saying you know the Quran is false. As in you last post i) I know the Quran is false. It does seem a very clear statement. I which case my questions stands how do you KNOW something you cant prove.
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Re: Try to defeat my God, I dare ye!
Reply #108 - January 02, 2010, 01:48 PM

Dont forget just before saying you know the Quran is false you had said you know you cant prove it is false as below.

Quote from: IsLame on January 02, 2010, 01:22 PM
i never said they were the proofs? they were conclusions and an explanation of your previous question.
- lightrays
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Re: Try to defeat my God, I dare ye!
Reply #109 - January 02, 2010, 01:48 PM

please be consistent Islame
- Saif Rahman
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Re: Try to defeat my God, I dare ye!
Reply #110 - January 02, 2010, 01:49 PM

You what, you dont think the quran and Islam are now inextricably linked ffs, your brain is a right mush - no wonder you converted to Islam
Quote from: lightrays on January 02, 2010, 01:46 PM
Sorry you are doing it again. Are you now saying you know the Quran is false. As in you last post i) I know the Quran is false. It does seem a very clear statement. I which case my questions stands how do you KNOW something you cant prove.

Yes, its a clear statement. And I have proved it. Like I said, see the vids.

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- lightrays
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Re: Try to defeat my God, I dare ye!
Reply #111 - January 02, 2010, 01:51 PM

you have proved the QUran is false?
- lightrays
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Re: Try to defeat my God, I dare ye!
Reply #112 - January 02, 2010, 01:53 PM

is that really what you claim for yourself?
- lightrays
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Re: Try to defeat my God, I dare ye!
Reply #113 - January 02, 2010, 02:03 PM

Will need a bit longer to see the vids but these seem like the standard lame claptrap of Hassan and others here.. Certainly no proof. As you said, you never said they were proofs and they certainly arent.
- lightrays
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Re: Try to defeat my God, I dare ye!
Reply #114 - January 02, 2010, 02:06 PM

Have got through a couple a bit tedious....it only works if you misunderstand almost everything,...
- Saif Rahman
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Re: Try to defeat my God, I dare ye!
Reply #115 - January 02, 2010, 02:15 PM

Thats your opinion and you are entitled to it. btw do you also accept that the invisible fairy at the bottom of my garden created the universe, or do you only accept 7th century Arabic fantasies as being the 'truth'?

You are a rare minority by the way - I hear 75% of converts to Islam, deconvert after 3 years? Or are you only a recent convert soon to realise the fact that you were misled?

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Re: Try to defeat my God, I dare ye!
Reply #116 - January 02, 2010, 02:42 PM

I will explain why I consider the one-god-as-creator-of-the-universe hypothesis as false.

Premises:

1) Something is greater than or equal to any of its subsets.
2) Nothing is greater than or equal to God.

Now let's evaluate the concept of "creation".
We could boil creationism down to this very simple statement:

- God created something different than him/her/itself.
- Let's call this created something "The-Creation"

Let's define something now:

- Let's take the set of everything that exists, has existed or will exist.
- Let's call it "The-Set-Of-Everything-Ever".

If God exists, then:

- God is a subset of the The-Set-Of-Everything-Ever

Also:
Since...
- The-Creation is not part of God
And...
- The-Creation is part of The-Set-Of-Everything-Ever

It is clear that:
- God is not The-Set-Of-Everything-Ever

So, that implies that (premise 1):
- The-Set-Of-Everything-Ever is greater than or equal to God

But that contradicts premise #2

=========================================

So, to summarize, one of these must be false:

1) Something is greater than or equal to any of its subsets.
2) Nothing is greater than or equal to God.
3) God created something different than him/her/itself.

And, between all those 3 premises, #1 seems to me like the most reasonable.
So I'd either consider false #2 or #3.

Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
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Re: Try to defeat my God, I dare ye!
Reply #117 - January 02, 2010, 03:04 PM

Taloc. thanks for your reasons why you "consider" (believe) God not to exist. They remain beliefs...
- Saif Rahman
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Re: Try to defeat my God, I dare ye!
Reply #118 - January 02, 2010, 03:08 PM

Quote from: lightrays on January 02, 2010, 03:04 PM
Taloc. thanks for your reasons why you "consider" (believe) God not to exist. They remain beliefs...

you assertions count for nothing. point out the flaws of the hypothesis, otherwise we are left to assume you dont actually have a point to make, and are here just to make noiss without any substance

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Re: Try to defeat my God, I dare ye!
Reply #119 - January 02, 2010, 03:44 PM

lightrays

Why would God choose to recite his word to a man in Arabia who subsequently murdered people in cold blood and had sex with young girls?

People here are doing a good job of pointing out the flaws in your logic - I want to come at things from a different angle, a moral angle, and ask you a question.

Why would God allow his chosen messenger to rape a 9 year old girl when he was in his fifties?

Does that not trouble you?

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
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