Clarifying the Council's position: Against Political Islam not Muslims

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Clarifying the Council's position: Against Political Islam not Muslims
OP - January 06, 2008, 06:03 AM

The Council is strongly against the advocacy and implementation of Political Islam i.e. Sharia Law and harmful, regressive practices and beliefs in general.

It holds no discriminatory or disparaging views against individual Muslims, or Muslims as a group. It is important to keep in mind that most Ex-Muslims have family and friends who are Muslim.

Maryam Namazie addressed this issue very eloquently during the launch of the Council :-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLfT_RC5wFA

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Re: Clarifying the Council's position: Against Political Islam not Muslims
Reply #1 - January 06, 2008, 06:25 AM

While we're clarifying positions I will mention that the Council's Executive Committee is a non-partisan body that is not affiliated with any political party. The members of the Executive Committee hold a range of political views and are united by their devotion to bettering the social and political climate for ex-Muslim apostates.
As people have probably noticed we are now using the Council's logo at the head of our forum. This is because we asked for and received confirmation regarding the non-partisan nature of the Council. We ( the staff ) are completely happy with their answers and have no qualms whatsoever about being officially associated with them. If this was not the case we would have resigned our positions and set up an independent forum.

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Re: Clarifying the Council's position: Against Political Islam not Muslims
Reply #2 - January 06, 2008, 09:15 AM

Quote from: osmanthus on January 06, 2008, 06:25 AM
While we're clarifying positions I will mention that the Council's Executive Committee is a non-partisan body that is not affiliated with any political party. The members of the Executive Committee hold a range of political views and are united by their devotion to bettering the social and political climate for ex-Muslim apostates.
As people have probably noticed we are now using the Council's logo at the head of our forum. This is because we asked for and received confirmation regarding the non-partisan nature of the Council. We ( the staff ) are completely happy with their answers and have no qualms whatsoever about being officially associated with them. If this was not the case we would have resigned our positions and set up an independent forum.

Perhaps it's a good idea to make that position the official policy of this forum.
Publish it in a prominent spot (on the mini portal?) so all members and non members can see it. Make the compliance with this principle an absolute condition for the membership of the forum.

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Re: Clarifying the Council's position: Against Political Islam not Muslims
Reply #3 - January 06, 2008, 10:01 AM

I'm glad you clarified that, thank you.

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Re: Clarifying the Council's position: Against Political Islam not Muslims
Reply #4 - January 06, 2008, 10:16 AM

You're welcome, Iris.

Wiking, I'm not quite sure what you mean. There are currently no criteria for registration and no plans to introduce any. This is a public forum and anyone can sign up regardless of their views on any subject. If they behave like complete prats we'll wallop them, but there's no oaths they have to swear before posting.

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Re: Clarifying the Council's position: Against Political Islam not Muslims
Reply #5 - January 15, 2008, 11:02 PM

Ha!, would things actually be different if you were legally in Europe allowed to discriminate against Muslims without using the pretext of Islam to discriminate against them?

I think the policy will be alot different if there was no laws enforcing no discrimination of Muslims as this is a violation of basic human rights. Who are you trying to kid by saying of we are not against Muslims we are only against Islam, the truth of the matter is legally you're not allowed to be against Muslims, that's why you're "not" against Muslims. However, as a Muslim I would like to make something abundantly clear anyone who is against Islam is against Muslims and no doubt all other Muslims will represent the same views as myself.

So as far as I am concerned ya'll can take your policy and shove up!

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Re: Clarifying the Council's position: Against Political Islam not Muslims
Reply #6 - January 15, 2008, 11:53 PM

Quote
anyone who is against Islam is against Muslims

King Tut do you have an identity seperate from Islam?

I may disagree with someone's belief system or ideology, that does not mean that I am against them as a person. Your beliefs are just a part of you. Beliefs can be altered once you come across new information.

Personally speaking, I do not believe in Islam and do not want to see it spread. But I am not against Muslims because many of my friends and my family are muslim. I see them as individuals not as a homogenous Muslim mass. And that has nothing to do with what I am allowed legally.

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Re: Clarifying the Council's position: Against Political Islam not Muslims
Reply #7 - January 15, 2008, 11:53 PM

Quote from: King Tut on January 15, 2008, 11:02 PM
Ha!, would things actually be different if you were legally in Europe allowed to discriminate against Muslims without using the pretext of Islam to discriminate against them?

I think the policy will be alot different if there was no laws enforcing no discrimination of Muslims as this is a violation of basic human rights. Who are you trying to kid by saying of we are not against Muslims we are only against Islam, the truth of the matter is legally you're not allowed to be against Muslims, that's why you're "not" against Muslims. However, as a Muslim I would like to make something abundantly clear anyone who is against Islam is against Muslims and no doubt all other Muslims will represent the same views as myself.

So as far as I am concerned ya'll can take your policy and shove up!

God you are a twit at times Tut.

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Re: Clarifying the Council's position: Against Political Islam not Muslims
Reply #8 - January 15, 2008, 11:55 PM

Quote
Ha!, would things actually be different if you were legally in Europe allowed to discriminate against Muslims without using the pretext of Islam to discriminate against them?

What do you mean?

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Re: Clarifying the Council's position: Against Political Islam not Muslims
Reply #9 - January 16, 2008, 09:31 AM

Quote from: King Tut on January 15, 2008, 11:02 PM
Ha!, would things actually be different if you were legally in Europe allowed to discriminate against Muslims without using the pretext of Islam to discriminate against them?

I think the policy will be alot different if there was no laws enforcing no discrimination of Muslims as this is a violation of basic human rights. Who are you trying to kid by saying of we are not against Muslims we are only against Islam, the truth of the matter is legally you're not allowed to be against Muslims, that's why you're "not" against Muslims. However, as a Muslim I would like to make something abundantly clear anyone who is against Islam is against Muslims and no doubt all other Muslims will represent the same views as myself.

So as far as I am concerned ya'll can take your policy and shove up!

King Twat,
What an absurd post!

As Iris says people can have different beliefs and ideologies and they can very easily be against different belief systems.

Are you saying that because you believe in Islam that you MUST hate everyone else as they don't believe in the same thing as you? In other words, do you have no respect for anyone who is not a muslim?

There are many muslims that I have a lot of respect for (particularly my mother!) but I do not agree with their beliefs... is it really that hard to see - are you so blinded by your Islam?

For me there are two main categories of people which range from the very good to the very bad... and ALL people on the planet fall into those categories regardless of whether they are muslims, christians, Man U supporters, americans, indians, conservatives, liberals, policemen, soldiers, gays, teachers, etc, etc, etc. My affinity is for the people in the good category regardless of their race, colour, creed, religion, political stance etc.

So as far as I am concerned you can shove your Islam and pathetic ideology where it doesn't shine!
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Re: Clarifying the Council's position: Against Political Islam not Muslims
Reply #10 - January 16, 2008, 01:22 PM

Whats so hard to understand about this Tut?

I just want the freedom to choose a religion or not have one, and I do not wish for the archaic laws of any religion particularly Islam enforced on me. I can see where you are coming from though, not too long ago I couldn't differentiate between people who criticised Islamic beliefs and people who hated all Muslim people as a whole.

I live in a Muslim country,my family and friends are Muslim: I'm surrounded by Muslims: how can I hate them? I was one not too long ago, and as far as everyone else is concerned I am still a Muslim. They are wonderful human beings, but political Islam is a loathesome entity I am strongly against, and I do not wish to see it spread without a challenge.

If you are so obtuse that you cannot see the difference between people of differing views and beliefs getting along, unless one subjugates the other, then I think it is the majority of Muslims who will be shamed by your views.

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Re: Clarifying the Council's position: Against Political Islam not Muslims
Reply #11 - January 16, 2008, 02:40 PM

Quote from: Iris on January 15, 2008, 11:53 PM
King Tut do you have an identity seperate from Islam?

Well personally speaking, Islam is my identity - it defines my ethics and morals, which in turn define my attitude to the world around me and my personality. You attacking Islam is attacking a part of me personally, as Islam defines my identity. When you attack Islam this upsets me as I have an emotional attachment to it. This is an abuse of my basic human rights, who gives you the right to attack a part of my identity? which genuinely creates hurt and suffering for me. Emotional bullying is no different then, bullying someone physically.

Quote
I may disagree with someone's belief system or ideology, that does not mean that I am against them as a person. Your beliefs are just a part of you. Beliefs can be altered once you come across new information.

Its my basic human right to have a belief in Islam, you can't push your totalitarian agenda and tell us what to believe by mentally trying to bully us.

Quote
Personally speaking, I do not believe in Islam and do not want to see it spread. But I am not against Muslims because many of my friends and my family are muslim. I see them as individuals not as a homogenous Muslim mass. And that has nothing to do with what I am allowed legally.

So having Muslim friends proves, you're not attacking Muslims - the Nazis had Jewish friends going by your logic I guess they (the Nazis) were innocent? your arguments conclusion doesnt follow logically from your argument premise.

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Re: Clarifying the Council's position: Against Political Islam not Muslims
Reply #12 - January 16, 2008, 02:48 PM

Quote from: Iris on January 15, 2008, 11:55 PM
Quote
Ha!, would things actually be different if you were legally in Europe allowed to discriminate against Muslims without using the pretext of Islam to discriminate against them?

What do you mean?

I mean would you all be acting so innocent and peaceful if there was no laws in Europe protecting individual Muslims? Or would you be actually attacking Muslims as opposed to using the pretext of Islam to attack them?

In other words, the only reason you are saying you are not against Muslims is because its illegal to discriminate against someone for having religious beliefs.

Lets not forget majority of the anti Islamics on this forum have come from faith freedom forum, where comments like "nuke Muslims" are posted, and even Ali SIna makes racist statements about Pakistanis, claims to be an atheist, but yet believes in Alien conspiracy theories.

Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
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Re: Clarifying the Council's position: Against Political Islam not Muslims
Reply #13 - January 16, 2008, 02:50 PM

Quote from: King Tut on January 16, 2008, 02:48 PM

Lets not forget majority of the anti Islamics on this forum have come from faith freedom forum, where comments like "nuke Muslims" are posted, and even Ali SIna makes racist statements about Pakistanis, claims to be an atheist, but yet believes in Alien conspiracy theories.

I honestly credit you with better thinking skills than you are showing so far. Many of us ex FFI members left because of that attitude.

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Re: Clarifying the Council's position: Against Political Islam not Muslims
Reply #14 - January 16, 2008, 02:55 PM

Quote
Lets not forget majority of the anti Islamics on this forum have come from faith freedom forum, where comments like "nuke Muslims" are posted, and even Ali SIna makes racist statements about Pakistanis, claims to be an atheist, but yet believes in Alien conspiracy theories.

That is factually wrong, and IMO deliberately misleading. The ex-FFIers here are not the same posters responsible for nuke Mecca style nonsense. In fact, most of us are here because we either got disillusioned with that, or because we fell out with Ali Sina of the alien conspiracies, or a bit of both.

You're just attempting to smear people through guilt by association, because you have nothing really to back up your claim that being against political Islam is synonymous with being bigoted against muslims.

"Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny." - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
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Re: Clarifying the Council's position: Against Political Islam not Muslims
Reply #15 - January 16, 2008, 03:03 PM

Quote
King Twat,
What an absurd post!

There's no need to be abuse to me personally just because I am a Muslim, attack my argument not me.

Quote
As Iris says people can have different beliefs and ideologies and they can very easily be against different belief systems.

So, but does that make it alright for individuals to discriminate against each other? don't you see the irony here? this website is against Islam. But yet you are trying to fool the public my coming up with these pseudo policies to desperately give credibility to your abhorrent organisation? which indirectly discriminates against Muslims, just because they believe in Islam.

Quote
Are you saying that because you believe in Islam that you MUST hate everyone else as they don't believe in the same thing as you? In other words, do you have no respect for anyone who is not a muslim?

Am not the one saying that, look around you... Who owns this website? not me? do I own a website which discriminates against religions? no I don't.

Quote
There are many muslims that I have a lot of respect for (particularly my mother!) but I do not agree with their beliefs... is it really that hard to see - are you so blinded by your Islam?

It shows how tolerant your mother is to respect you, despite you holding abhorrent views about her belief system. How am I blinded by Islam, I'm not discriminating, I can't care less if you leave Islam, our scriptures state clearly there is no compulsion in religion.

Quote
For me there are two main categories of people which range from the very good to the very bad... and ALL people on the planet fall into those categories regardless of whether they are muslims, christians, Man U supporters, americans, indians, conservatives, liberals, policemen, soldiers, gays, teachers, etc, etc, etc. My affinity is for the people in the good category regardless of their race, colour, creed, religion, political stance etc.

Then I support you to.

Quote
So as far as I am concerned you can shove your Islam and pathetic ideology where it doesn't shine!

Thanks for showing us all your true colors and hearted of Islam and contradicting yourself.

Have a good day.

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Re: Clarifying the Council's position: Against Political Islam not Muslims
Reply #16 - January 16, 2008, 03:05 PM

Quote from: King Tut on January 16, 2008, 03:03 PM

There's no need to be abuse to me personally just because I am a Muslim, attack my argument not me.

Stop with the victimisation calls, it's a bit snivelly don;t you think?

You are not being attacked for being a muslim, just for the silly things you say. That's why you say them, you like the cyber beatings.

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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Re: Clarifying the Council's position: Against Political Islam not Muslims
Reply #17 - January 16, 2008, 03:10 PM

Quote from: BerberElla on January 16, 2008, 02:50 PM
Quote from: King Tut on January 16, 2008, 02:48 PM

Lets not forget majority of the anti Islamics on this forum have come from faith freedom forum, where comments like "nuke Muslims" are posted, and even Ali SIna makes racist statements about Pakistanis, claims to be an atheist, but yet believes in Alien conspiracy theories.

I honestly credit you with better thinking skills than you are showing so far. Many of us ex FFI members left because of that attitude.

Maybe so, however at the end of day its the same formula. Sugarcoating bigotry doesnt make it OK.

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Re: Clarifying the Council's position: Against Political Islam not Muslims
Reply #18 - January 16, 2008, 03:14 PM

Quote
Maybe so, however at the end of day its the same formula. Sugarcoating bigotry doesnt make it OK.

Criticising Islam is not bigotry. It's an ideology, it should be just as open to criticism as any other. Look around the net and you'll find plenty of ex-Christian fora, so I don't think Islam should expect any special kid glove treatment.

"Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny." - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
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Re: Clarifying the Council's position: Against Political Islam not Muslims
Reply #19 - January 16, 2008, 03:17 PM

Quote
In fact, most of us are here because we either got disillusioned with that, or because we fell out with Ali Sina of the alien conspiracies, or a bit of both.

I think most of you are here, for the fact that Ali Sina banned you, as opposed to leaving ffi by being outraged, by the genocidal comments made my members about Muslims.

Quote
You're just attempting to smear people through guilt by association, because you have nothing really to back up your claim that being against political Islam is synonymous with being bigoted against muslims.

You are only using a pretext of being against "political Islam" to attack Muslims. There is no such thing as "political Islam" there is only "Islam" which means submission, which comes from the root word "peace" in Arabic.

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Re: Clarifying the Council's position: Against Political Islam not Muslims
Reply #20 - January 16, 2008, 03:21 PM

Quote from: BerberElla on January 16, 2008, 03:05 PM
Quote from: King Tut on January 16, 2008, 03:03 PM

There's no need to be abuse to me personally just because I am a Muslim, attack my argument not me.

Stop with the victimisation calls, it's a bit snivelly don;t you think?

You are not being attacked for being a muslim, just for the silly things you say. That's why you say them, you like the cyber beatings.

by the way it only has one l in it.

no am not cyber masochist.

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Re: Clarifying the Council's position: Against Political Islam not Muslims
Reply #21 - January 16, 2008, 03:26 PM

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I think most of you are here, for the fact that Ali Sina banned you, as opposed to leaving ffi by being outraged, by the genocidal comments made my members about Muslims.

First you tried to smear us by association with an alien conspiracy theorist, and then you try and attack us for being banned after disagreeing with the alien nonsense. Consistency is not your strong point, is it Tutsi? Also, bear in mind that outrage has been expressed over genocidal and racist comments at FFI many times, mostly by the members who are now here. Also again, bear in mind that I am plenty computer literate enough to multi-nick, and I expect the others are too, so if we wanted to still be there, we could be. We have chosen here, largely because it is a relief to be away from such a poisonous atmosphere, and still be able to share a forum with the people we respect from over there.

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You are only using a pretext of being against "political Islam" to attack Muslims. There is no such thing as "political Islam" there is only "Islam" which means submission, which comes from the root word "peace" in Arabic.

There's no such thing as political Islam? Pull the other one its got bells on. Hizb ut-Tahrir and similar organisations make a liar of you. And that's not even mentioning the really extreme political Islamists - al-Qaeda and the like.

"Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny." - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
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Re: Clarifying the Council's position: Against Political Islam not Muslims
Reply #22 - January 16, 2008, 03:36 PM

Quote from: Cheetah on January 16, 2008, 03:26 PM
Quote
I think most of you are here, for the fact that Ali Sina banned you, as opposed to leaving ffi by being outraged, by the genocidal comments made my members about Muslims.

First you tried to smear us by association with an alien conspiracy theorist, and then you try and attack us for being banned after disagreeing with the alien nonsense. Consistency is not your strong point, is it Tutsi? Also, bear in mind that outrage has been expressed over genocidal and racist comments at FFI many times, mostly by the members who are now here. Also again, bear in mind that I am plenty computer literate enough to multi-nick, and I expect the others are too, so if we wanted to still be there, we could be. We have chosen here, largely because it is a relief to be away from such a poisonous atmosphere, and still be able to share a forum with the people we respect from over there.

Quote
You are only using a pretext of being against "political Islam" to attack Muslims. There is no such thing as "political Islam" there is only "Islam" which means submission, which comes from the root word "peace" in Arabic.

There's no such thing as political Islam? Pull the other one its got bells on. Hizb ut-Tahrir and similar organisations make a liar of you. And that's not even mentioning the really extreme political Islamists - al-Qaeda and the like.

Who made HUT or Al-qaeda representatives of Islam?

they are political moments, HUT are as much representative of Islam as the BNP is of Christianity.

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Re: Clarifying the Council's position: Against Political Islam not Muslims
Reply #23 - January 16, 2008, 03:42 PM

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Who made HUT or Al-qaeda representatives of Islam? Roll Eyes

Nobody made them representatives. They adopted that mantle themselves, and they use Islam as a justification for the things they say and do. They are religious and sectarian bigots. Why shouldn't I oppose them, and why shouldn't you for that matter?

The BNP don't use Christianity as a raison d'etre so your comparison is not that great. However, you are basically right to compare the Hizbs et al to the BNP, they appeal to the same type of 'them vs. us' mentality, only they use nationalism instead of religion.

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Re: Clarifying the Council's position: Against Political Islam not Muslims
Reply #24 - January 16, 2008, 03:46 PM

Quote from: King Tut on January 16, 2008, 03:17 PM

I think most of you are here, for the fact that Ali Sina banned you, as opposed to leaving ffi by being outraged, by the genocidal comments made my members about Muslims.

This website was created by us before I was banned.

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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Re: Clarifying the Council's position: Against Political Islam not Muslims
Reply #25 - January 16, 2008, 03:53 PM

Quote from: King Tut on January 16, 2008, 03:03 PM
There's no need to be abuse to me personally just because I am a Muslim, attack my argument not me.

Stop acting a victim - I am arguing with you as a person who has some strange views NOT because you are a muslim - is that too difficult to understand?! To clarify (as I do not want to get too personal) I very much dislike and disagree with your argument that you are being discriminated against.

Note there is no law in europe that says one cannot criticise a belief system unlike some Islamic countries such as Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc!

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So, but does that make it alright for individuals to discriminate against each other? don't you see the irony here? this website is against Islam. But yet you are trying to fool the public my coming up with these pseudo policies to desperately give credibility to your abhorrent organisation? which indirectly discriminates against Muslims, just because they believe in Islam.

What is all this about being discriminated against? Open your eyes and your mind - We very much stand for Human Rights for ALL humans - unlike your Sharia where women, gays, apostates etc are discriminated against! Don't talk about discrimination to muslims when you have such abhorrent and discriminatory principles towards certain humans!

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It shows how tolerant your mother is to respect you, despite you holding abhorrent views about her belief system. How am I blinded by Islam, I'm not discriminating, I can't care less if you leave Islam, our scriptures state clearly there is no compulsion in religion.

And you again convenient forget all the discriminatory aspects of your belief system!

There is no way you Islamists are going to keep us quiet by taking a victim status when it is clear to everyone that it is Islam that is oppressing a very large number of people!
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Re: Clarifying the Council's position: Against Political Islam not Muslims
Reply #26 - January 16, 2008, 04:03 PM

Quote from: Cheetah on January 16, 2008, 03:42 PM
Quote
Who made HUT or Al-qaeda representatives of Islam? Roll Eyes

Nobody made them representatives. They adopted that mantle themselves, and they use Islam as a justification for the things they say and do. They are religious and sectarian bigots. Why shouldn't I oppose them, and why shouldn't you for that matter?

The BNP don't use Christianity as a raison d'etre so your comparison is not that great. However, you are basically right to compare the Hizbs et al to the BNP, they appeal to the same type of 'them vs. us' mentality, only they use nationalism instead of religion.

So why are the scriptures being attacked, as opposed to Sufism or Barelvism. Why are you guys attacking peaceful Deobandism of which I am an ardent supporter of? I'm opposed to the corruption of Islam by Barelvi school of thought and yes I would support you. Islam needs to be purified of these external non Islamic influences.

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Re: Clarifying the Council's position: Against Political Islam not Muslims
Reply #27 - January 16, 2008, 04:08 PM

You're on a forum, so express any views you like, including pro-Deobandi ones. Given that many people here have ceased to believe in Islam in any shape or form, you probably won't get many agreeing with you. That's life though, isn't it? Doesn't mean we hate you, just because we disagree with you. Its a bit silly you thinking we hate you anyway, you were personally invited here by the admin, and warmly welcomed by most people who already knew you. If we hated you we wouldn't have been so pleased to see you, so stop whining you little cry baby

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Re: Clarifying the Council's position: Against Political Islam not Muslims
Reply #28 - January 16, 2008, 04:13 PM

Quote from: Cheetah on January 16, 2008, 04:08 PM
You're on a forum, so express any views you like, including pro-Deobandi ones. Given that many people here have ceased to believe in Islam in any shape or form, you probably won't get many agreeing with you. That's life though, isn't it? Doesn't mean we hate you, just because we disagree with you. Its a bit silly you thinking we hate you anyway, you were personally invited here by the admin, and warmly welcomed by most people who already knew you. If we hated you we wouldn't have been so pleased to see you, so stop whining you little cry baby

Well if you're cool with a Muslim who is of Tablighi Jamaat then I am cool with you.

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Re: Clarifying the Council's position: Against Political Islam not Muslims
Reply #29 - January 16, 2008, 04:15 PM

Yeah, I'm cool with it, although as I said, don't expect me to agree with all of your views. Or indeed, any of them, lol.

"Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny." - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
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