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Theme Changer

 Topic: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad

 (Read 160999 times)
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  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #60 - November 20, 2009, 12:28 AM

    That is what I admire about the Islamic communities that surround us in neighbouring countries, the way family is important to them.  Traditionally we are also like that, although things are changing.


    In my younger years, when Salafism was really strong, I personally saw that, and the desire for discipline seemed to be the big reasons that people were Muslim.  For those who don't know, Salafism in America was very strong in the ghetto areas.  Sometimes it would be the only masjid in town or the only one where they spoke English.  In some cities in the US, they controlled the entire Muslim community, and I lived in one of those cities.  The only version of Islam was their version. 

    There was so much emphasis on order and proper patriarchal families, and this longing to achieve these things, but in reality, the uprbringing that people brought with them into Islam and the atmosphere of the neighbourhood were there and were not going away.  Our masjids were in the hood and the jamaat was afflicted with hood problems.   Especially in the 1990s when crime was really out of control and crack and heroin were flooding the streets.  A lot of people became Salafi Muslims and came from families where parents were in prison or dead or on drugs and they were raised in the system or by a grandparent, etc.  Islam offered order, discipline, structure, consistency, but people didn't realize - you don't throw away your problems when you take your shahada.  I  knew so many people who couldn't stay married more than two months or so.  Most of my friends were married and divorced multiple times, they had children with different men, they were on welfare, they were in "polygamy", and so on.  Umar Lee.com had a series of post examining the problems of the culture that was admired by a lot of people, even though he's sort of a tosser himself.  When I met Muslims who were born into the Nation and then raised in the Warith Deen version of Sunni Islam, it was the first time I met American Muslims who were middle class, had stable jobs, education, families, etc. 

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #61 - November 20, 2009, 01:05 PM

    i read your blog here, and i am not one to judge...i know sisters that have taken hijab off, and as shocking as it may feel, in the end, the person has the exact same personality....the only thing you did wrong was go so public about your opinions of islam then sit here today and take them back....so i guess what im trying to say is put yourself in a muslims pair of shoes and see the other side of the ball. You say muslims are being hypocrites, yet arent you by saying you believe in this then take back your opinion of the religion? Just somthing for you to think about.... Smiley
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #62 - November 20, 2009, 01:08 PM

    i read your blog here, and i am not one to judge...i know sisters that have taken hijab off, and as shocking as it may feel, in the end, the person has the exact same personality....the only thing you did wrong was go so public about your opinions of islam then sit here today and take them back....so i guess what im trying to say is put yourself in a muslims pair of shoes and see the other side of the ball. You say muslims are being hypocrites, yet arent you by saying you believe in this then take back your opinion of the religion? Just somthing for you to think about.... Smiley


    That is not being hypocritical. That is changing one's mind and opinion about something.

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #63 - November 20, 2009, 01:09 PM

    i read your blog here, and i am not one to judge...i know sisters that have taken hijab off, and as shocking as it may feel, in the end, the person has the exact same personality....the only thing you did wrong was go so public about your opinions of islam then sit here today and take them back....so i guess what im trying to say is put yourself in a muslims pair of shoes and see the other side of the ball. You say muslims are being hypocrites, yet arent you by saying you believe in this then take back your opinion of the religion? Just somthing for you to think about.... Smiley

    Have you ever changed your mind about something - how did you punish yourself afterwards?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #64 - November 20, 2009, 01:09 PM

    i read your blog here, and i am not one to judge...i know sisters that have taken hijab off, and as shocking as it may feel, in the end, the person has the exact same personality....the only thing you did wrong was go so public about your opinions of islam then sit here today and take them back....so i guess what im trying to say is put yourself in a muslims pair of shoes and see the other side of the ball. You say muslims are being hypocrites, yet arent you by saying you believe in this then take back your opinion of the religion? Just somthing for you to think about.... Smiley


    Does the same apply to the very many Muslim converts who went public about becoming Muslim and do a great deal more than Kim to promote their new beliefs?

    Why is it wrong to say publicly you are a Muslim then say publicly you are not?

    Is it a sin to change your mind?
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #65 - November 20, 2009, 02:25 PM

    Welcome KimDonesia, I mean EX-KimDonesia lol. I know this was late. We are all glad you joined here and not that stupid faith freedom website. If you need any help from us, please let us know and we would love to be of help Smiley


    Thanks. Faith Freedom seems a little biased to me. Full of converts to Christianity, though correct me if I'm wrong. One delusion to another.  Cry

    "But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads; Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron." [Qur'an (22:19-21)]
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #66 - November 20, 2009, 02:26 PM

    Welcome and well done on leaving Islam!

    I'm not gonna lie, I had never heard of you previously but I just looked you up on youtube!

    Could I ask you how old you are? And how old were you when you became Muslim? Its just you seem quite young and seem to have had some remarkable experiences for one so young!

    That is so true!


    I decided to convert to Islam when I was 15-years-old... I converted when I was 16, and I am now 18 and a fresh murtad. Chyeahhh.

    "But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads; Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron." [Qur'an (22:19-21)]
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #67 - November 20, 2009, 02:27 PM

    Ditto  Afro

    Also welcome to the forums. Well done on publicising about your apostasy, I wish I could do it as well.


    Trust me... It's not fudgin' easy at all. Hate mail and death threats left and right.

    "But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads; Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron." [Qur'an (22:19-21)]
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #68 - November 20, 2009, 02:34 PM

    Trust me... It's not fudgin' easy at all. Hate mail and death threats left and right.


    Don't worry Kim, mostly these threats are just bubbles! But still annoying I agree! Welcome to the forums by the way!  Afro

    ...
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #69 - November 20, 2009, 02:36 PM

    The same old same old.  She / he never believed, she was a fitnah / sinner, and it was a conspiracy anyway.  I honestly don't know how the west gets anything done, seeing as how we are all engaged, at all times, in conspiracies large and small against Islam.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuPiOSF3ByI

    Hey, speaking of apologetics, I heard a new one today. According to the video above, I and a fellow possibly-an-apostate were actually being paid by a non-Muslim company to act as Muslims then cause Muslims to doubt Islam by apostating publicly.

    Oh yeah, it's true... Allah told her that there are non-Muslim organizations spending all their wealth just to stop Islam from spreading. Haha. Funny.  dance

    Though, I'm flattered that they think my acting's that good. In reality, I can't act for shit.

     bunny

    (Post modified due to the video showing up in a weird place.)

    "But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads; Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron." [Qur'an (22:19-21)]
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #70 - November 20, 2009, 02:38 PM

    That is not being hypocritical. That is changing one's mind and opinion about something.


    Exactly. I say this all the time, but the human mind is constantly evolving. Nothing is permanent. What one believes today may not be what one believes tomorrow. I don't see how uncontrollable change of heart is hypocritical. That's like saying converts to Islam are hypocrites because now they're saying they believe in Islam, when they didn't before.

    "But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads; Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron." [Qur'an (22:19-21)]
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #71 - November 20, 2009, 02:40 PM

    Don't worry Kim, mostly these threats are just bubbles! But still annoying I agree! Welcome to the forums by the way!  Afro


    Pleasure to be here. Smiley

    "But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads; Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron." [Qur'an (22:19-21)]
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #72 - November 20, 2009, 02:43 PM

    Does the same apply to the very many Muslim converts who went public about becoming Muslim and do a great deal more than Kim to promote their new beliefs?

    Why is it wrong to say publicly you are a Muslim then say publicly you are not?

    Is it a sin to change your mind?


    Apparently so.  Cheesy

    "But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads; Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron." [Qur'an (22:19-21)]
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #73 - November 20, 2009, 02:52 PM

    I don't see how uncontrollable change of heart is hypocritical. That's like saying converts to Islam are hypocrites because now they're saying they believe in Islam, when they didn't before.

    Good point  Afro

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #74 - November 20, 2009, 03:00 PM

    Hey Kim, is that you in the avatar? I like the pink heart.

    ...
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #75 - November 20, 2009, 03:05 PM

    Quote
    Hi there.

    Some of you may know me as KimDonesia. I was quite a popular Muslim Youtuber and blogger. I appeared on TV in the Middle East, in magazines, on many blogs, on Turkish radio, etc. I was a role model Muslim who received praise from the majority of Muslims online, and "haram haram haram" from a lot of the stricter Muslims.

    On my 18th birthday my 14-year-old dog had to be put down, which triggered a depression. I was at home all the time, and thought a lot about the Hereafter. I feared for my non-Muslim family, and was constantly praying for them to be guided to Islam so that they could be saved from eternal Jahannam (Hellfire). I even thought of making my death wish "you must convert to Islam before you all die".

    Hello sister
    Your decision to leave was based on emotions, not reason.
    Your family was not going to Hellfire in the first place because the message of Islam had not reached them in the first place. It was a gross misunderstanding on your part.
    Quote
    One night, I had a long conversation with my mother and told her my worries. I explained to her that my perception of God was not the God in the Qur'an who constantly talked about punishment of Hell for the disbelievers... Seriously, that's what it's like. All throughout, it's basically "the disbelievers will go to Hell forever, and God is most Merciful, most Forgiving". I realized that I was only a Muslim out of fear of Hellfire, and being brainwashed.

    It is true that the Quran constantly talks about punishment for the disbelievers, which is understandable because it is the last message from God, but it also talked about many other things.
    Quote
    So yes, I left Islam. I kept it all very private for a week because I was scared about the reactions of my online Muslim friends. I told some that I knew in real life, and they completely deserted me. "Kim, I can't be your friend anymore because you have insulted Islam."

    What the fudge? So now, leaving a religion means that you're insulting it?

    I "came out" on Youtube... In a video. And things went downhill with the Muslim community online. Most were in shock, some suspected that I was always a top secret spy who faked a conversion just to hurt Islam (*scoff* Yeah, right.), some wrote blog posts and articles about it, some were supportive as it's my decision, and MANY started calling me a cock sucking whore... Oh, and I wasn't that surprised when some started to give me death threats.

    Several sisters said that you were rude to them when they contacted you after your video.
    Quote
    It went from famous Muslim, to infamous Murtad. It's amazing, and hypocritical, how people's perceptions of somebody can change based on religion/beliefs. I deleted my Youtube account again, as I fear for my safety. I have received multiple death threats, and I just don't want to put up with that shit anymore.

    This is of course wrong, but understandable. I mean if a member here decides to convert to Islam I am sure all hell is going to break loose. You have to understand that religion is a very sensistive and emotional topic.
    Quote
    Don't get me wrong, I still respect Muslims. Islam was a big part of my life for quite a while. I simply disagree with Islam, for if there is a God (yup, 100% Agnostic now), He/She/It would not be so desperate for worship. People say "you need God, He doesn't need you". Doesn't seem like it.

    God is not desperate for worship. He deserves worship because He is your Creator, just like your parents deserve your obedience because they delivered  and raised you.
    Quote
    I'm so happy with my decision. I feel free... I can wear what I what, I can drink again (I missed intoxication), and I can live my life without worrying what foot I enter the bathroom with and whether I have prayed yet.

    1. You can wear whatever you want in Islam. It just has to be decent clothing.
    2. Alcohol is bad I believe. Personally I know several non-Muslims who do not drink alcohol.
    3. You can enter the bathroom with any foot you want. It looks that you converted to a radical, strict version of "Islam".
    4. You have to pray 5 times a day, but if that is so tiring, you can pray as many as you can.
    Quote
    It's funny that Muslims talk about Islam being a religion of peace when trying to bring people to Islam, but threaten to kill somebody who leaves Islam. *sigh* Gotta love double standards...

    It is funny how you generalize over the entire community. Many people wished you good luck and supported you in your decision. I was one of them. As I said religion is a very emotional and sensitive topic. Nobody, not even atheists, likes to see someone leaving their fold.

    I wish you return to YouTube as I believe we can have a fruitful discussion. I really believe your decision was emotional and illogical, and that you can revert to Islam once again.

    Good luck in your life, and may God be with you.
    Regards,

  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #76 - November 20, 2009, 03:33 PM

    Thanks. Faith Freedom seems a little biased to me. Full of converts to Christianity, though correct me if I'm wrong. One delusion to another.  Cry

    Most of them are fake "converts". It is a hate site like many hate sites out there.
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #77 - November 20, 2009, 03:46 PM

    Hi,
    This is of course wrong, but understandable. I mean if a member here decides to convert to Islam I am sure all hell is going to break loose. You have to understand that religion is a very sensistive and emotional topic.


    Absolutely not. Nothing like that would happen. We wouldn't get deeply upset and say things like: "How dare you do this us?" or "Who is paying you to destroy us?" or "Die you bitch/bastard! Hope you suffer forever!" etc. Muslims get all whiny just because somebody left their wonderful and flawless religion. They have to react like that, because they believe that their "all-merciful" god will torture the apostates and unbelievers forever, which is worse than suffering in an extermination camp.

    German ex-Muslim forumMy YouTubeList of Ex-Muslims
    Wikis: en de fr ar tr
    CEMB-Chat
    I'm on an indefinite break...
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #78 - November 20, 2009, 04:07 PM

    When I first learned about istinja, I thought 'What the fuck?' but now I see how sensible it is.  The thing is, even though Islam teaches it, it's fairly widespread in Eastern cultures, from what I know.  I don't know if bidets are used widely in Europe, but they're definitely not on this side of the pond.  It just makes sense.  In America, they now market these wipes to clean yourself with.  So you pay $3 for a box of wipes, using paper, plastic, and the chemicals, when you could install a hose like in the Arab countries or use a lota and use the water from your sink for free - without the packaging and plastic and purchasing refills. 


    I have always thought that istinja is a good thing, with or without islam. It certainly beats skid marks! What does annoy me though is when muslims claim it to be something exclusive, as though it's something they have invented. I'm aware that istinja is practiced throughout India and Pakistan, regardless of religion. The problem is the image that people who do istinja have of the westerners who just use toilet paper. I have heard it so many times amongst muslim circles, that the kuffar are dirty because they don't wipe their backsides properly.
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #79 - November 20, 2009, 04:10 PM

    Saleem,

    The argument that you're making is actually an emotional blackmail. I highly doubt that you've watched her deconversion video all the way to the end to be making claims like that. Her leaving of Islam wasn't emotional--it was triggered by an emotional experience. She left Islam after analytical investigation of Islam--something we all here have done. Your attempt to undermine the experiences of others by labeling it purely "emotional" and being void of reason is quite sly. Too bad it won't work here my friend. A lot of us here know how that works. Nice try anyways.



    .1. You can wear whatever you want in Islam. It just has to be decent clothing.


    Oh, so the Hijab is not mandatory then? A woman doesn't have to be covered from head to toe? I mean what is "decent" in your eyes? To me, shorts are decent for a woman to wear. Can a Muslim woman wear that in public?


    2. Alcohol is bad I believe. Personally I know several non-Muslims who do not drink alcohol.


    Quite irrelevant. Thank you.



    3. You can enter the bathroom with any foot you want. It looks that you converted to a radical, strict version of "Islam".


    Islam is a strict religion. You either live by the Quran and the Sunnah, or you don't. It's as black and white as that. I understand that there are many "moderate" Muslims who tries to cherry-pick Quran, but in the end, it's all just pretending to be a Muslim anyways.

    4. You have to pray 5 times a day, but if that is so tiring, you can pray as many as you can.It is funny how you generalize over the entire community. Many people wished you good luck and supported you in your decision. I was one of them. As I said religion is a very emotional and sensitive topic. Nobody, not even atheists, likes to see someone leaving their fold.


    I as an Atheist wouldn't really care if an Atheist converted to a religion. I'd question it, because I'd be curious. But I guarantee none of the reactions would amount to the reactions of Muslim slandering the one who leaves their fold. Again nice try.


    God is not desperate for worship. He deserves worship because He is your Creator, just like your parents deserve your obedience because they delivered  and raised you.


    Respect is earned. Some parents disown their kids, abuse their children their whole life, and some even kill their kids--they don't deserve respect.

    Besides, parents dont bring kids into this world just for the sake of respecting them. However, in the Quran, it says Allah created humans JUST for the sake of worshiping him. So clearly he is desperate for worship. It's in the Quran mate.

    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #80 - November 20, 2009, 04:18 PM

    Hi,
    Absolutely not. Nothing like that would happen. We wouldn't get deeply upset and say things like: "How dare you do this us?" or "Who is paying you to destroy us?" or "Die you bitch/bastard! Hope you suffer forever!" etc. Muslims get all whiny just because somebody left their wonderful and flawless religion. They have to react like that, because they believe that their "all-merciful" god will torture the apostates and unbelievers forever, which is worse than suffering in an extermination camp.


    People here would certainly get upset if someone reverted/converted to Islam. Maybe they would not be hysterical, but they would certainly get upset. Not all Muslims were hysterical about our sister actually. Many supported her, even though some say that she was rude to them.
    Not all unbelievers will be tortured forever. Only those that learned genuine Islam and rejected it would get punished. Punishing the wrongful does not contradict mercy.

    Regards,
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #81 - November 20, 2009, 04:20 PM

    Only those that learned genuine Islam and rejected it would get punished. Punishing the wrongful does not contradict mercy.

    Regards,



    Really?  Says who?  And what is 'genuine Islam' if I may ask?  As there seem to be several brands, each insisting that they are genuine...

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #82 - November 20, 2009, 04:24 PM

    People here would certainly get upset if someone reverted/converted to Islam. Maybe they would not be hysterical, but they would certainly get upset.
    Regards,


    You seem to be though... otherwise you would have never posted this...

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #83 - November 20, 2009, 04:26 PM

    To give the devil his due, I was impressed with how efficiently safiya managed to burn books, especially given that I don't need to tell you that her cult followers have been trained, organized, and motivated to replace discourse and open dialogue with disorganized flimflams and blatant ugliness. That should be self-evident. What is less evident is that I haven't the foggiest idea why she wants to resolve a moral failure with an immoral solution.

    Get this: safiya insists that anyone who dares to convert retreat into advance can expect to suffer hair loss and tooth decay as a result. [One minute break for laughter.] Whew! That's the funniest thing I've heard in weeks.
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #84 - November 20, 2009, 04:27 PM

    Correct me if I'm wrong Saleem, but doesn't your "holy" book say too many times that hell is eternal. I mean. in 3:85, is says ALL those don't except Islam will be tortured in hell forever. How do you explain that?

    "Whoever seeks a faith other than Islam, it will never be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers."--3:85

    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #85 - November 20, 2009, 04:33 PM

    Quote
    Saleem,

    The argument that you're making is actually an emotional blackmail. I highly doubt that you've watched her deconversion video all the way to the end to be making claims like that.

    Hello Tommy
    You are wrong here.
    Quote
    Her leaving of Islam wasn't emotional--it was triggered by an emotional experience. She left Islam after analytical investigation of Islam

    It was purely emotional. Read my post in response to her again.
    Quote
    something we all here have done.

    I, and many others, investigated Islam analytically and are fully convinced in it.
    Quote
    Your attempt to undermine the experiences of others by labeling it purely "emotional" and being void of reason is quite sly. Too bad it won't work here my friend. A lot of us here know how that works. Nice try anyways.

    I did not try any of those things. I only talked about our sister here, not all of you since I do not know any of you. I am not even sure if all of you were Muslim at some point in your lives or not, anyway.
    Quote
    Oh, so the Hijab is not mandatory then? A woman doesn't have to be covered from head to toe? I mean what is "decent" in your eyes? To me, shorts are decent for a woman to wear. Can a Muslim woman wear that in public?

    No, "hijab" and "niqab" are not mandatory. Some shorts are decent, some are not. They have to fully cover their chests though.
    Quote
    Quite irrelevant. Thank you.

    No it is not. She said that she now can drink alcohol. I am advising her against that for the sake of her health.
    Quote
    Islam is a strict religion. You either live by the Quran and the Sunnah, or you don't. It's as black and white as that. I understand that there are many "moderate" Muslims who tries to cherry-pick Quran, but in the end, it's all just pretending to be a Muslim anyways.

    Wrong. Islam is not strict. I live by the Quran and I do not cherry pick anything. I go by the whole and for me it is the most liberal religion there is.
    Quote
    I as an Atheist wouldn't really care if an Atheist converted to a religion. I'd question it, because I'd be curious. But I guarantee none of the reactions would amount to the reactions of Muslim slandering the one who leaves their fold. Again nice try.

    You are the exception that proves the rule. I also criticized the hysterical reactions from some of the Muslims here.
    Quote
    Respect is earned. Some parents disown their kids, abuse their children their whole life, and some even kill their kids--they don't deserve respect.

    Besides, parents dont bring kids into this world just for the sake of respecting them.

    Those parents do not deserve obedience of course. But God is unlike them. He is Gracious and Merciful. Just too.
    Good parent, nonetheless, expect obedience from their children.
    Quote
    However, in the Quran, it says Allah created humans JUST for the sake of worshiping him. So clearly he is desperate for worship. It's in the Quran mate.

    Working is considered a form of worship too. God demands worship because He deserves it. He is the Creator, and therefore He deserves worship. Both go hand in hand. Nothing to do with desperation.
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #86 - November 20, 2009, 04:36 PM


    Really?  Says who?  And what is 'genuine Islam' if I may ask?  As there seem to be several brands, each insisting that they are genuine...

    The Quran. The Quran is genuine Islam.
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #87 - November 20, 2009, 04:38 PM

    You seem to be though... otherwise you would have never posted this...

    No, I never wanted to register in this site in the first place, but when I read our sister's rantings, and others' reactions to her I could not help it.
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #88 - November 20, 2009, 04:38 PM

    SO why do you have the hadith then?
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #89 - November 20, 2009, 04:38 PM

    The Quran. The Quran is genuine Islam.


    There are Sunnis, who are divided into further subgroups and then there are Shiaa who are also divided.  Tell me which one is genuine

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
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