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Theme Changer

 Topic: Putting Faith in its Place

 (Read 37620 times)
  • 12 3 ... 6 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Putting Faith in its Place
     OP - September 15, 2009, 09:03 PM

    Excellent video - worth listening to carefully.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wV_REEdvxo

    Hell is an absurd & wicked fiction. You're not a bad person for rejecting something that's cruel, irrational, unjust & lacks evidence. You have nothing to fear. Nothing to feel ashamed about. Enjoy your life. Do the best you can. Make yourself & others happy.
  • Re: Putting Faith in its Place
     Reply #1 - September 15, 2009, 09:21 PM

    That's a great video Hassan. I may have to send that to my dad one day, says a lot about him.
  • Re: Putting Faith in its Place
     Reply #2 - September 15, 2009, 10:12 PM

    That vid is killer. Totally love it.  Afro

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Putting Faith in its Place
     Reply #3 - September 15, 2009, 10:14 PM

    The last fe minutes of it are particularly pertinent given recent experiences of some people here.  Afro

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Putting Faith in its Place
     Reply #4 - September 15, 2009, 10:16 PM

    Yes - and I really hope ppl watch it to the end - it is worth it.

    Hell is an absurd & wicked fiction. You're not a bad person for rejecting something that's cruel, irrational, unjust & lacks evidence. You have nothing to fear. Nothing to feel ashamed about. Enjoy your life. Do the best you can. Make yourself & others happy.
  • Re: Putting Faith in its Place
     Reply #5 - September 15, 2009, 10:20 PM

    Why doesn't it work.

    Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
  • Re: Putting Faith in its Place
     Reply #6 - September 15, 2009, 10:27 PM

    Should work. Works for me. You can always try watching it direct on YouTube if your connection is playing up.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Putting Faith in its Place
     Reply #7 - September 16, 2009, 02:18 AM

    That was brilliant!

    I'm so using that when discussing this with my mum.  Afro Thanks Hassan.
  • Re: Putting Faith in its Place
     Reply #8 - September 16, 2009, 02:20 AM

    This one is worth stickying.   yes

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Putting Faith in its Place
     Reply #9 - September 16, 2009, 04:13 AM

    That's an awesome video Hassan!  Wish I could show it to my mother

    Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish.

    Atheism: A non-prophet organization.

    Which is it, is man one of God?s blunders or is God one of man?s?
  • Re: Putting Faith in its Place
     Reply #10 - September 16, 2009, 07:42 AM

    Hassan, that was a brilliant vid. Although I don't think my friends would appreciate it.
  • Re: Putting Faith in its Place
     Reply #11 - September 16, 2009, 01:04 PM

    they guy who did that video is a genius

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  • Re: Putting Faith in its Place
     Reply #12 - September 16, 2009, 01:13 PM

    I really wanna email it to my mum. She's on MSN right now talking about praying (her praying for my test) so I dunno if this is the right time to show her  Cheesy
  • Re: Putting Faith in its Place
     Reply #13 - September 16, 2009, 06:28 PM

    Brilliant video
     thnkyu

    I also watched a couple of videos in his channel and they were great as well  Afro
    http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=QualiaSoup&view=videos

    "In every time and culture there are pressures to conform to the prevailing prejudices. But there are also, in every place and epoch, those who value the truth; who record the evidence faithfully. Future generations are in their debt." -Carl Sagan

  • Re: Putting Faith in its Place
     Reply #14 - September 16, 2009, 06:29 PM

    If you haven't seen this one, Infidel, you should:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaL7CkQaQpU

    Hell is an absurd & wicked fiction. You're not a bad person for rejecting something that's cruel, irrational, unjust & lacks evidence. You have nothing to fear. Nothing to feel ashamed about. Enjoy your life. Do the best you can. Make yourself & others happy.
  • Re: Putting Faith in its Place
     Reply #15 - September 16, 2009, 06:31 PM

    Hassan, thanks for posting this. It's possibly the best, most articulate video on the subject of rationality and faith I've come across. Though I do agree that most theists will either fail to understand or appreciate its message, but it does give the rest of us a clearer way to understand and communicate our own thought processes. Brilliant!

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."

    Help keep this forum going! Donate to the Council of ExMuslims here: ex-muslim.org.uk/donate
  • Re: Putting Faith in its Place
     Reply #16 - September 16, 2009, 10:14 PM

    If you haven't seen this one, Infidel, you should:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaL7CkQaQpU

    I have watched it and it was really logical, kind of similar to your 'Hell in the Quran' video

    "In every time and culture there are pressures to conform to the prevailing prejudices. But there are also, in every place and epoch, those who value the truth; who record the evidence faithfully. Future generations are in their debt." -Carl Sagan

  • Re: Putting Faith in its Place
     Reply #17 - September 17, 2009, 12:11 AM

    That was an amazing way of explaining the concept of hell.  He makes so much sense!

    Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish.

    Atheism: A non-prophet organization.

    Which is it, is man one of God?s blunders or is God one of man?s?
  • Re: Putting Faith in its Place
     Reply #18 - September 17, 2009, 01:30 AM

    Thanks Hassan, not seen that one. Doug's videos are excellent!
  • Re: Putting Faith in its Place
     Reply #19 - September 20, 2009, 12:47 AM

    Hi Hassan
    I hope and pray all is well with you and yours.
    I found the video interesting. I just thought it rather strange the direction it took.
    It stated the well known fact that the word sheol means grave which is nothing like what the word hell means. Indeed a mistranslation. It reasoned well that eternity in torment is not a just punishment for even the worst of crimes, let alone simply not believing in God. The commentator is exactly right how could forever in Paradise be paradise for a just minded person knowing that there may be someone, let alone someone they love being tormented in fire forever. That is why the Bible assures us that the dead are conscious of nothing at all which eliminates the possibility of physical torment or for that matter any kind of torment. Try looking at Ecc 9:5. The commentator says that life ends in death, being gone, being nothing and by this trys to defame the Bible. This is to me is an odd thing to do since the Bible tells what happened to Adam when he dead was to return to the dust. Exactly being nothing like before he was formed. This account in the Bible is to show what will happen to those who do not want to live in the world created by the God of the Bible. So I am wondering why try to defame the Bible because of the traditions of mankind? The commentator also voiced concern about the possibility of an all powerful God who could not retrieve someone from hell.(which there is not a burning one anyhow) Well, that is just not the case God can retrieve the dead from the grave (which is the real meaning of the word sheol). I suppose that you would not take the accounts in the Bible as proof. But you might be surprised how the accounts of resurrections in the Bible tell something that is somewhat different then what many Christians think they teach.
    until another time, Lynna

    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Putting Faith in its Place
     Reply #20 - September 20, 2009, 04:30 PM

    Hi Lynna,

    Do you mean those who reject Christ don't suffer an eternity in torment?



    Hell is an absurd & wicked fiction. You're not a bad person for rejecting something that's cruel, irrational, unjust & lacks evidence. You have nothing to fear. Nothing to feel ashamed about. Enjoy your life. Do the best you can. Make yourself & others happy.
  • Re: Putting Faith in its Place
     Reply #21 - September 23, 2009, 11:45 AM

    I think there is the issue of whether or not the muslim feels that his or her faith needs to be scrutinised under the lamp of objectivity. Afterall the muslim can turn around and say that faith is about the individual, salvation and why humans were created in the first place. This is the angles I have seen muslims use before in trying to defend their position.
  • Re: Putting Faith in its Place
     Reply #22 - September 23, 2009, 11:09 PM

    Hi Hassan,
    Sorry for taking awhile to get back to you. I don't have a computer at home so I have to used the cyber cafe after work when I have time.
    According to the Bible those people who reject Christ do not suffer an eternity of torment. Not only that but nobody who is dead suffers anything or feels anything at all for that matter. Did you read Ecclesiastes 9:5? Just in case you don't have a Bible I'll cut and paste for you.

    Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten.
    Think about it. Ecclesiastes clearly states the dead "are conscious of nothing at all", this clearly agrees with what Genesis says about those who don't want to live in the world that the God of the Bible created. Just in case you have never read Genesis I'll cut and paste a few verses for you.
    Genesis 2:15 And Jehovah God proceeded to take the man and settle him in the garden of Eden to cultivate it and to take care of it. 16 And Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: "From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. 17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die."
    So for mankind who want to take thier own course they "will die". It is however not left up to our own imagenation what death is.
    Take a look at this.

    Genesis 3:17 And to Adam he said: "Because you listened to your wife's voice and took to eating from the tree concerning which I gave you this command, 'You must not eat from it,' cursed is the ground on your account. In pain you will eat its produce all the days of your life. 18 And thorns and thistles it will grow for you, and you must eat the vegetation of the field. 19 In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return."
    The last part has the main point for this subject. "...until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return."
    So at death all humans turn back into dirt (compost?) No torment.
    The only thing is if a person wants to live in Paradise and has done anything to show they would like to have a life directed by God then by his power and mercy the person can be resurrect on the last day.
    It is my hope and prayer that you remain safe and well.
    Until next time.
    Lynna

    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Putting Faith in its Place
     Reply #23 - October 03, 2009, 03:44 PM

    Though the video is generally well argued, I have doubts on his refutation of Willian Lane Craig.

    Craig already asserts that the creator transcends time and space. How much less probable is transcending 'all time and space' than only 'our time and space'?

    Why can't a "changeless disembodied mind" exist outside our undertanding, if the creator of the video himself assumes that a different 'time and space' outside ours (which also is outside our understanding; correct me if I'm wrong) could exist?

    "God is a geometer" - Plato

    "God is addicted to arithmetic" - Sir James Jeans
  • Re: Putting Faith in its Place
     Reply #24 - October 04, 2009, 03:49 PM


    According to the Bible those people who reject Christ do not suffer an eternity of torment. Not only that but nobody who is dead suffers anything or feels anything at all for that...


    So it makes no difference whether one accepts Christ or not?

    Hell is an absurd & wicked fiction. You're not a bad person for rejecting something that's cruel, irrational, unjust & lacks evidence. You have nothing to fear. Nothing to feel ashamed about. Enjoy your life. Do the best you can. Make yourself & others happy.
  • Re: Putting Faith in its Place
     Reply #25 - October 04, 2009, 04:50 PM

    "So it makes no difference whether one accepts Christ or not.'

    Good news! Thanks Jehova's Witnesses Afro


    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Putting Faith in its Place
     Reply #26 - October 04, 2009, 04:54 PM

    "So it makes no difference whether one accepts Christ or not.'

    No.
    But you knew I would say this.   Wink

    Hi, Hassan.

    Respectfully,
    History

    "You shall love your fellow as yourself."--Vayikrah 19:18

    "Justice, justice shall you pursue"--Devarim 16:20
  • Re: Putting Faith in its Place
     Reply #27 - October 04, 2009, 04:58 PM

    In that case I am a Jehovah's Witness to keep my bases covered

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  • Re: Putting Faith in its Place
     Reply #28 - October 04, 2009, 06:02 PM

    No.
    But you knew I would say this.   Wink

    Hi, Hassan.

    Respectfully,
    History


    Hi History Smiley and yes I knew you would say that - May God always bless you - as I'm quite sure he does Smiley

    Hell is an absurd & wicked fiction. You're not a bad person for rejecting something that's cruel, irrational, unjust & lacks evidence. You have nothing to fear. Nothing to feel ashamed about. Enjoy your life. Do the best you can. Make yourself & others happy.
  • Re: Putting Faith in its Place
     Reply #29 - October 04, 2009, 06:50 PM

    Someone once asked me 'do you want to be Jehovah's witness'? I said 'I didn't see the accident'.

    Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
  • 12 3 ... 6 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »