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 Topic: Raising children too openly?

 (Read 7734 times)
  • 12 3 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Raising children too openly?
     OP - September 11, 2009, 06:54 AM

    So to carry on from my comment on this thread: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=6592.msg166565#msg166565

    What is too open and what is instilling the same repressive ideas we grew up with?

    I am truly struggling with this, which makes me quite inconsistent, and as any parent knows, inconsistent is not something you ever want to be around your children lol.

    However I would never allow them to see porn, I do have issues with my 10yr old boy sneaking looks up to the top shelf of magazines at the local corner shop lol but I get that it's normal, so I just tease him about it, after all there is nothing I can really do to avoid going in to shops that have it all spread out like that, every local shop has a filfthy top shelf.

    Anyway on the other hand I don't have an issue with them seeing my avatars that I choose, if it is just nudity of some type, then I sometimes think it is fine because I want them to be comfortable and desensitized to skimpy clothing, and naked flesh so that they don't go on to become judgemental about women who do dress how they please.

    Perhaps this is wrong, maybe there is a proper way to raise your kids to healthy well rounded individuals, what do you think?

    Should I be sheltering them more from this (my avatars for instance)?

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Raising children too openly?
     Reply #1 - September 11, 2009, 07:28 AM

    Nice topic for us ex-Muslims to think about. However, for me Berbs, my situation is different from yours. I live in a country where such magazines never exists, and seeing somthing like in your avatar (which I love very much) is quite a new experience for my kid. He has not seen this one, but has seen the glittery butt avatar you used to have several weeks ago. But you have to agree that the glittery butt was more artistic than this one which leans more towards the kinky sex over 18 category!


    ...
  • Re: Raising children too openly?
     Reply #2 - September 11, 2009, 07:28 AM

    I guess they might say 'Why is there a picture of a sexy butt on your avatar'? What's wrong with a rose or a fluffy kitten? Smiley
    My son is eleven now and getting interested, he knows i'd go mad if he looked up porn when with me, but you can't prevent outside influences. His peers at school - they all reckon they know it all. I wouldn't worry about them becoming desensitized Berbs, it's all around, everywhere you look.

    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Raising children too openly?
     Reply #3 - September 11, 2009, 07:31 AM

    I had the advantage of growing up in a very liberal enviornment for most my youth. When I was little (around 6 years old to 12 years old), every summer we used to go to the beach......a nude beach.
    So I spent many of my younger years around 23 year old women and men playing volleyball naked.

    Not recommending it or something, and take it for what it is, but as a teenager and an adult, I've never felt any shame about my body, and while I dont walk around naked all day (out of respect for other people, to protect my "junk", not look like a nut, ect and well...general cleanliness), I wouldnt feel freaked out, or even uncomfortable, if someone saw me naked.
    That, and I can look at your avatar and think "that is a really sexy butt" without becoming uncontrollably horney or obsessed with it.
     

    So, maybe it was a good thing. I dont know

    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
  • Re: Raising children too openly?
     Reply #4 - September 11, 2009, 07:33 AM

    Nice topic for us ex-Muslims to think about. However, for me Berbs, my situation is different from yours. I live in a country where such magazines never exists, and seeing somthing like in your avatar (which I love very much) is quite a new experience for my kid. He has not seen this one, but has seen the glittery butt avatar you used to have several weeks ago. But you have to agree that the glittery butt was more artistic than this one which leans more towards the kinky sex over 18 category!




    true, I have however put a childish cheeky slant on this one when my 7yr old son asked me why she was handcuffed, I said her bum was in trouble for farting so it was under arrest, he thought it was hilarious, he still doesn't connect it to kinky over 18 stuff.


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Raising children too openly?
     Reply #5 - September 11, 2009, 07:52 AM

     Cheesy Bum under arrest.  rofl  Nice one.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Raising children too openly?
     Reply #6 - September 11, 2009, 08:32 AM

     Cheesy That's brilliant Berbs.

    And I don't think there is a set way to raise your child...not that I would know because I'm not a parent, but I don't judge you AT ALL for raising your children YOUR way.

    Growing up in a very strict environment where I was restricted when it came to sex, I snuck looks behind my parents backs anyway. Since I was always bi-curious when I was a teenager, I was always interested in the naked female (and male) figure. My parents would change the channel if two people kissing came on television...until I was about 17...and will probably still do it when I go back to live with them. However when they weren't home, and two people were kissing on television, I'd watch with a sense of curiosity. Of course, my parents don't know this.

    There is only so much you can do to stop them from looking at porn at such a young age, etc, but like you said, loads of corner shops have the images on the top shelf anyway. I think you handled it well by teasing him about it because you are building up a form of trust with your son and so, hopefully, when he gets older he will be able to openly talk to you about it (in the sense that he can get sex education from you and not from his mates who might give him the wrong information).

    Just remember, that the more you restrict a child, the more they will want to do something because curiosity is a built-in human characteristic.

    I can understand if the other parents on the board disagree with me, because none of what I have written is coming from a parent's perspective...just a curious girl who grew up in a strict household.
  • Re: Raising children too openly?
     Reply #7 - September 11, 2009, 08:45 AM

    I guess they might say 'Why is there a picture of a sexy butt on your avatar'? What's wrong with a rose or a fluffy kitten? Smiley
    My son is eleven now and getting interested, he knows i'd go mad if he looked up porn when with me, but you can't prevent outside influences. His peers at school - they all reckon they know it all. I wouldn't worry about them becoming desensitized Berbs, it's all around, everywhere you look.


    Because I'm no flower or fluffy kitten.  Tongue They don't really represent my cheeky inner spirit.

    My son never asks me why there is a sexy butt, he doesn't associate it with sexy, nothing is sexy to him at 7, nor my daughter at 5, they just initially asked (not about this one) why her bum was showing, or she was almost naked from previous avatars and I compared it to beaches, bikinis and people not being ahsamed of their bodies.  My eldest now, well that's another story lol but there isn't anything he can't discuss with me and he is growing up so fast, he might associate it with sexy, he hasn't seen this one yet. 

    I had the advantage of growing up in a very liberal enviornment for most my youth. When I was little (around 6 years old to 12 years old), every summer we used to go to the beach......a nude beach.
    So I spent many of my younger years around 23 year old women and men playing volleyball naked.

    Not recommending it or something, and take it for what it is, but as a teenager and an adult, I've never felt any shame about my body, and while I dont walk around naked all day (out of respect for other people, to protect my "junk", not look like a nut, ect and well...general cleanliness), I wouldnt feel freaked out, or even uncomfortable, if someone saw me naked.
    That, and I can look at your avatar and think "that is a really sexy butt" without becoming uncontrollably horney or obsessed with it.
     

    So, maybe it was a good thing. I dont know


    That's my aim.  One of my closest friend raises her son in that kind of environment and discusses everything very frankly with him, I have yet to meet a 12yr old as secure and knowledgable as her son, I admire it, it took me many years to get to a stage where my eldest could even ask me about sex, or for instance the time he came home from school asking me what wanking was.......that was quite a tough test for me.  Cheesy

    I don't want him to be like his father, his father freaks out at the slightest bit of nudity, he would go mental if his kids ever accidentally walked in on him in the shower (as my father did, he even beat me for it and it was only an accident cos he didn't lock the door).

    Cheesy Bum under arrest.  rofl  Nice one.


     Tongue Pretty pleased with my fast thinking too if I don;t say myself.  dance


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Raising children too openly?
     Reply #8 - September 11, 2009, 08:52 AM

    Haha oops, sorry Embarrassed .  Maybe I am a bad mum but I just leave it now, I used to have an issue with them stumbling across my avatars, but now I don't because it's all natural, just womens beauty and I don't want them to think anything is shameful.  Maybe that's a bad attitude to have.  wacko

    I'm the same as you - its all relative.  I remember whenever there was just a basic kissing scene on TV and me and my brother were told to close our eyes (although we always sneeked a peek).   Kids find nude pictures funny rather than seeing the sexual side to them, and I certainly dont see any long term damage from them.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Raising children too openly?
     Reply #9 - September 11, 2009, 08:54 AM

    Cheesy That's brilliant Berbs.

    And I don't think there is a set way to raise your child...not that I would know because I'm not a parent, but I don't judge you AT ALL for raising your children YOUR way.

    Growing up in a very strict environment where I was restricted when it came to sex, I snuck looks behind my parents backs anyway. Since I was always bi-curious when I was a teenager, I was always interested in the naked female (and male) figure. My parents would change the channel if two people kissing came on television...until I was about 17...and will probably still do it when I go back to live with them. However when they weren't home, and two people were kissing on television, I'd watch with a sense of curiosity. Of course, my parents don't know this.

    There is only so much you can do to stop them from looking at porn at such a young age, etc, but like you said, loads of corner shops have the images on the top shelf anyway. I think you handled it well by teasing him about it because you are building up a form of trust with your son and so, hopefully, when he gets older he will be able to openly talk to you about it (in the sense that he can get sex education from you and not from his mates who might give him the wrong information).

    Just remember, that the more you restrict a child, the more they will want to do something because curiosity is a built-in human characteristic.

    I can understand if the other parents on the board disagree with me, because none of what I have written is coming from a parent's perspective...just a curious girl who grew up in a strict household.


    Yes, this is it, I remember being that way too when my parents were out, and they were regularly out working, I was left at home alone when I was 8, my sisters were 10 and 4.  When they were out at work, we would watch the things they never let us watch, I even play acted some kissing and fondling scenes with the scottish girl from next door.  Tongue  However there was such shame in me as I grew because sex was wrong, it was bad.  Nudity for a girl was a sin, I felt sinful if my skirt was too short as a teen.  I knew nothing about sex except what I saw on tv, and damn those unrealistic love stories like dirty dancing  finmad because the education is crap, it's like reading a fairy tale and thinking that's how it is going to be.

    No, I want my kids to be clued up.  You hit the nail right on the head, my son does come to me now, I found it very uncomfortable to start off with and it put a strain on me, I even shouted at him for it once, but with time and hard inner work he can now ask me things.  It's still tough though, because he goes boarding school and there are older boys there who are teaching him bullshit about stuff I personally wouldn;t want him to know at his age (11).

    However my brother assures me that 11 is pretty damn normal for the curiousity to begin, that he was aswell at that age, so I am trying to relax.

    I'm just glad he feels he can trust me enough to ask me these things.

    I did find it hard to smother the giggle the other day.  He saw a 4yr old boy with a hard on, and in his infinite wisdom then proceeded to tell me all about how it happens to him too now, but that it happens whenever he thinks of something rude or sees something rude.  Cheesy

    Bit too much information, but at least he trusts me.


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Raising children too openly?
     Reply #10 - September 11, 2009, 08:56 AM

    Just as long as he doesn't start on the donkeys.  whistling2

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Raising children too openly?
     Reply #11 - September 11, 2009, 08:59 AM

    Yes, this is it, I remember being that way too, when my parents were out, and they were regularly out working, I was left at home alone when I was 8, my sisters were 10 and 4.  When they were out at work, we would watch the things they never let us watch, I even play acted some kissing and fondling scenes with the scottish girl from next door.  Tongue  However there was such shame in me as I grew because sex was wrong, it was bad.  Nudity for a girl was a sin, I felt sinful if my skirt was too short as a teen.  I knew nothing about sex except what I saw on tv, and damn those unrealistic love stories like dirty dancing because the education is crap, it's like reading a fairy tale and thinking that's how it is going to be.

    No, I want my kids to be clued up.  You hit the nail right on the head, my son does come to now, I found it very uncomfortable to start off with and it put a strain, I even shouted at him for it once, but with time and hard inner work he can now ask me things.  It's still tough though, because he goes boarding school and there are older boys there who are teaching him bullshit about stuff I personally wouldn;t want him to know at his age (11).

    However my brother assures me that 11 is pretty damn normal for the curiousity to begin, that he was aswell at that age, so I am trying to relax.

    I'm just glad he feels he can trust me enough to ask me these things.

    I did find it hard to smother the giggle the other day.  He saw a 4yr old boy with a hard on, and in his infinite wisdom then proceeded to tell me all about how it happens to him too now, but that it happens whenever he thinks of something rude or sees something rude.  Cheesy

    Bit to much information, but at least he trusts me.



    I think it is good that he can talk to you about such things.. I never could have with my folks, and I believe it is better the devil you know that the devil you dont.  At least then he wont be uncomfortable coming to you for advice if he ever needs it.  How come you are sending him to boarding school?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Raising children too openly?
     Reply #12 - September 11, 2009, 09:02 AM

    I'm the same as you - its all relative.  I remember whenever there was just a basic kissing scene on TV and me and my brother were told to close our eyes (although we always sneeked a peek).   Kids find nude pictures funny rather than seeing the sexual side to them, and I certainly dont see any long term damage from them.


    That's my biggest concern, I worry about long term damage, maybe early sexual development because of this kind of exposure?

    Then I worry that it's the repressed part of me making me worry about that in the first place.

    This is what my head looks like most of the time >>  GoodVsBad

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Raising children too openly?
     Reply #13 - September 11, 2009, 09:11 AM

    Just as long as he doesn't start on the donkeys.  whistling2


    As long as he is never a member here, he should be just fine.  Tongue


    I think it is good that he can talk to you about such things.. I never could have with my folks, and I believe it is better the devil you know that the devil you dont.  At least then he wont be uncomfortable coming to you for advice if he ever needs it.  How come you are sending him to boarding school?



    He has a behaviour disorder, O.D.D, and the regular schools won't take him.  We did home schooling for a year and a half but last year we moved to a new borough and they send them to boarding schools that are tailored to his needs.

    I wasn't keen, I refused the offer many times, but in the end it has actually been really good for him.  He finally caught up on his education and sat his SAT's before school broke up, he is 2yrs above his peers in maths and science, which considering he refused to even learn to read before last year, is a huge improvement.

    He is doing quite well now.  Smiley

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Raising children too openly?
     Reply #14 - September 11, 2009, 09:18 AM

    thats nice to hear  Afro

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Raising children too openly?
     Reply #15 - September 11, 2009, 09:20 AM

    That is very good news. I remember all the trouble you were having with him.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Raising children too openly?
     Reply #16 - September 11, 2009, 09:31 AM

    Yeah, infact I haven;t grumbled about him in ages when you come to think about it, because there is real good progress.  Don't get me wron,g I;m still having issues, especially about the way he behaves after seeing his dad, but I;m closer to him now, he trusts me more and he looks forward to school, and enjoys learning.

    He has friends now, home schooling is quite bad for the isolation aspect.  All in all I'm quite positive about it all.

    However I not only attribute that to the school, but to the shift in my attitude towards the way I parent too.  I think I am a better mum to him now than I was before.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Raising children too openly?
     Reply #17 - September 11, 2009, 10:34 AM

    I'm the same as you - its all relative.  I remember whenever there was just a basic kissing scene on TV and me and my brother were told to close our eyes (although we always sneeked a peek).   Kids find nude pictures funny rather than seeing the sexual side to them, and I certainly dont see any long term damage from them.


    Really? you had that funny experience too? It was the same as us here when I was a kid, but not with my children, no. I let them watch movies with kisses and I think it is OK that they learn that showing affections is nothing to be ashamed of. In our society, holding hands is seen as sexual. I find it very difficult to hold my wife's hands in public let alone to hug her, although I never minded.

    Here attached are 3 very famous cartoons by one of the best Cartoonists of North Africa. Although, these were made in the late sixties (I think 1967) the first one is very representative of what the situation would be when kissing or cuddling appears on TV. LOL


    ...
  • Re: Raising children too openly?
     Reply #18 - September 11, 2009, 11:14 AM


    Ok, question. If everyone panics when they see kissing on tv why do they screen movies with kissing in them?

    Great cartoons, by the way. grin12

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Raising children too openly?
     Reply #19 - September 11, 2009, 11:23 AM

    I'm really happy to hear that your son is making progress Berbs. The fact that he has improved so much in Science and Maths just goes to show that you are doing a great job.

    I don't think 11 is too young for guys to become curious...I was curious at 10...wacko I always felt really uncomfortable about sharing that with anyone, and it really did isolate me as well because I felt like it was something to be ashamed of. I couldn't talk to my parents, and when I hinted it in front of friends, well let's just say that wasn't a smart move! Bloody hormones.

    Ribs: Brilliant cartoons  Cheesy
  • Re: Raising children too openly?
     Reply #20 - September 11, 2009, 11:57 AM

    Ribs: Brilliant cartoons  Cheesy


    Then you will like these. They are my favourites...


    ...
  • Re: Raising children too openly?
     Reply #21 - September 11, 2009, 12:11 PM

    Interesting topic, thanks for bringing it up. I think you are doing a fine job BerberElla.

    I'm with the idea of freedom to talk about sex with kids. The only danger is they might go too far to a teenage pregnancy, but I think the risk here is out weighed by the benefits of a mature young adult. Keeping something scarce to a child only makes them want it more, whatever it is.

    It is exactly due to this shameful Islamic culture that a cousin of mine died in Banglade$h a few years back. She was about 15/16 and wouldn't see a male doctor to treat her jaundice. My uncle is a decent guy, just highly religious and so brought up his kids as such.
  • Re: Raising children too openly?
     Reply #22 - September 11, 2009, 12:14 PM

    I love how he interpret emotions and pays attention to little details that no other cartoonist would bother to do. Shame this artist whose name is "Zwawi" is in his late 80 or something, his prime time was way before the internet age. So sadly, he does not have website or any other reference apart from printed books which are all sold out, and considered collectors items. He has 3 big catalogs of funny and hilarious ones. I have only one at home.

    He was famous in the late 50s and 60s... He was famous for attacking the cultural backwardness (he obviously could not tackle religion frankly, but he was hinting to it when ever he could).

    For example, this one is about Niqab and covering up of women. The ladies were on a day out, and decided to take a picture by a street photographer. Each of them holding a piece of paper with her name on!!!



    Berbs, show these to your boy so he knows how some cultures think of women differently! LOL

    ...
  • Re: Raising children too openly?
     Reply #23 - September 11, 2009, 12:26 PM

    Interesting topic, thanks for bringing it up. I think you are doing a fine job BerberElla.

    I'm with the idea of freedom to talk about sex with kids. The only danger is they might go too far to a teenage pregnancy, but I think the risk here is out weighed by the benefits of a mature young adult. Keeping something scarce to a child only makes them want it more, whatever it is.


    Yes, I do worry about them entering that world too young, but I am really going to back it all up with good sex education, protection, and talking to them as much as possible about how hard life is for young parents and for the kids of those young parents. 

    If you think about it, the european country with the least teenage pregnancy (can't remember which one exactly) is that way because of it's openess and education.  Let's hope anyway.

    Quote

    It is exactly due to this shameful Islamic culture that a cousin of mine died in Banglade$h a few years back. She was about 15/16 and wouldn't see a male doctor to treat her jaundice. My uncle is a decent guy, just highly religious and so brought up his kids as such.


    That is just so sad and wasteful of a life, I am glad I am in a place in my life where I don;t have to stress about whether my doctor is male or female, as your experience shows not every female is as lucky and it is sad.

    It's like jehovah witnesses who let their kids die rather than get a blood transfusion because jesus will save them.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Raising children too openly?
     Reply #24 - September 11, 2009, 12:27 PM

    Love the cartoons RIBS, especially the kissing on TV one.  Cheesy

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Raising children too openly?
     Reply #25 - September 11, 2009, 12:29 PM

    Well, I was brought up in a very liberal atmosphere at my mom's house.  She used to make the coffee in her birthday suit and when I would say something about it she would always reply, 'Well, darling, I don't have anything you won't/don't have so what's the fuss?'.

    As for movies I was under the usual childhood restrictions, no gory horror movies and no overt sex but movies like Dirty Dancing were okay but for some odd reason my mom wouldn't let me watch Heathers until I was well into my teens (probably because she thought it would encourage me to blow up my school!).

    So, when I became Muslim, this all actually worked in my favor because it meant that I didn't have the usual reservations about sex that most Muslims have which made my hubby VERY happy! thnkyu

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: Raising children too openly?
     Reply #26 - September 11, 2009, 12:31 PM

    Love the cartoons RIBS, especially the kissing on TV one.  Cheesy


    Agreed!  I have a book with some Turkish cartoons about women getting it off when the men are away but unfortunately my scanner isn't working so I can't scan them in and post them.

    D'oh!  015

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: Raising children too openly?
     Reply #27 - September 11, 2009, 12:32 PM

     Cheesy I remember Heathers. That film was evil.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Raising children too openly?
     Reply #28 - September 11, 2009, 12:32 PM

    Oddly, I had reservations, but I was still a trysexual when I got married, I was up for trying it all, can't help how sinful I get when it comes to sex  Tongue, unfortunately in my case this did not make hubby happy at all, this made him very mad, very mad indeed.  Roll Eyes

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Raising children too openly?
     Reply #29 - September 11, 2009, 12:45 PM

    Oddly, I had reservations, but I was still a trysexual when I got married, I was up for trying it all, can't help how sinful I get when it comes to sex  Tongue, unfortunately in my case this did not make hubby happy at all, this made him very mad, very mad indeed.  Roll Eyes


    This is called 'Muslim Male Insecurity Syndrome'.

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
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