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 Topic: List of Contradictions in the Qur'an

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  • List of Contradictions in the Qur'an
     OP - August 25, 2009, 02:32 PM

    This is an excellent list of contradictions in the Qur'an - it is in Arabic for those who can read it (I will see if I have time to translate it later for others).

    http://el7ad.com/smf/index.php/topic,75776.0.html

    Hell is an absurd & wicked fiction. You're not a bad person for rejecting something that's cruel, irrational, unjust & lacks evidence. You have nothing to fear. Nothing to feel ashamed about. Enjoy your life. Do the best you can. Make yourself & others happy.
  • Re: List of Contradictions in the Qur'an
     Reply #1 - August 25, 2009, 02:40 PM

    Great find Hassan, I read some contradictions from the list and I swear I thought I read them before and I never noticed. When I say before I mean like 15 years ago. As I never touched the quran for a long time. But I guess I need to sit down and read with an objective mind now. Before I was reading it as a fact that it was from God.... wacko

    ...
  • Re: List of Contradictions in the Qur'an
     Reply #2 - August 25, 2009, 02:44 PM

    This is an excellent list of contradictions in the Qur'an - it is in Arabic for those who can read it (I will see if I have time to translate it later for others).

    http://el7ad.com/smf/index.php/topic,75776.0.html



    Hassan, is there anything you can point me to in english? Some good and coherent that I can show my missus?
  • Re: List of Contradictions in the Qur'an
     Reply #3 - August 25, 2009, 02:46 PM

    Just a quick taster of the contradictions - the "He is knower of all things" made me laugh - he obviously didn't know he'd contradicted himself  Cheesy:


    "Which was created first, the heavens or the earth?"

    The Heavens!

    Are you harder to create, or the heavens that He built? He raised its canopy, and He gave it order and perfection. And He made dark its night and brought out its light. Then after that He spread the earth. (An-Nazi'aat 27-30)

    The Earth!

    He it is Who created for you all that is in the earth. Then turned He to the heaven, and fashioned it as seven heavens. And He is knower of all things. (Al-Baqara 29)
    ما الذي خُلِق أولا السماوات أم الأرض:

    السماوات:

    ((أَأَنتُمْ أَشَدُّ خَلْقًا أَمِ السَّمَاء بَنَاهَا، رَفَعَ سَمْكَهَا فَسَوَّاهَا، وَأَغْطَشَ لَيْلَهَا وَأَخْرَجَ ضُحَاهَا، وَالْأَرْضَ بَعْدَ ذَلِكَ دَحَاهَا)) النازعات 27-30

    الأرض:

    ((هُوَ الَّذِي خَلَقَ لَكُم مَّا فِي الأَرْضِ جَمِيعاً ثُمَّ اسْتَوَى إِلَى السَّمَاء فَسَوَّاهُنَّ سَبْعَ سَمَاوَاتٍ وَهُوَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ )) البقرة 29

    Hell is an absurd & wicked fiction. You're not a bad person for rejecting something that's cruel, irrational, unjust & lacks evidence. You have nothing to fear. Nothing to feel ashamed about. Enjoy your life. Do the best you can. Make yourself & others happy.
  • Re: List of Contradictions in the Qur'an
     Reply #4 - August 25, 2009, 02:47 PM

    Great find Hassan, I read some contradictions from the list and I swear I thought I read them before and I never noticed. When I say before I mean like 15 years ago. As I never touched the quran for a long time. But I guess I need to sit down and read with an objective mind now. Before I was reading it as a fact that it was from God.... wacko


    Well it was Prosaic who found it (Thanks Habibti  Afro )

    Hell is an absurd & wicked fiction. You're not a bad person for rejecting something that's cruel, irrational, unjust & lacks evidence. You have nothing to fear. Nothing to feel ashamed about. Enjoy your life. Do the best you can. Make yourself & others happy.
  • Re: List of Contradictions in the Qur'an
     Reply #5 - August 25, 2009, 02:49 PM

    This is an excellent list of contradictions in the Qur'an - it is in Arabic for those who can read it (I will see if I have time to translate it later for others).

    It's not translated perfectly, but you can see what they're talking about:
    http://translate.google.nl/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fel7ad.com%2Fsmf%2Findex.php%2Ftopic%2C75776.0.html&sl=ar&tl=en&history_state0=

    I also have some in English:
    - http://www.carm.org/religious-movements/islam/contradictions-quran
    - http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/contra/by_name.html
    - http://www.contenderministries.org/islam/contradictions.php

    We should all remember a few of those, just in case we debate a muslim... xD

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  • Re: List of Contradictions in the Qur'an
     Reply #6 - August 25, 2009, 03:17 PM

    Just a quick taster of the contradictions - the "He is knower of all things" made me laugh - he obviously didn't know he'd contradicted himself  Cheesy:

    LoL! xD

    Twitter: https://twitter.com/ExMuslims
    Council of Ex-Muslims of the Netherlands will be back!

    Never doubt that a small group of commited people can change te world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. -Margaret Mead
  • Re: List of Contradictions in the Qur'an
     Reply #7 - August 25, 2009, 03:27 PM

    I'm not certain that these verses contradict each other in a clear-cut way. I assume the word 'thumma' is used in Arabic, some translate it as 'moreover'. See Yusuf Ali's translation:

    79:27: What! Are ye the more difficult to create or the heaven (above)? (Allah) hath constructed it:
    79:28: On high hath He raised its canopy, and He hath given it order and perfection.
    79:29: Its night doth He endow with darkness, and its splendour doth He bring out (with light).
    79:30: And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse);

    2:29: It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on earth; Moreover His design comprehended the heavens, for He gave order and perfection to the seven firmaments; and of all things He hath perfect knowledge.

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  • Re: List of Contradictions in the Qur'an
     Reply #8 - August 25, 2009, 03:38 PM

    By the way, just use Google Translate to see a machine translation into English of that forum thread. It's not that bad actually.

    I think many of those "contradictions" have already been listed and discussed on English websites. I put the word contradictions in quotes, because I think that the language can often be bent or twisted to suit your position, so you can explain these problems away.

    German ex-Muslim forumMy YouTubeList of Ex-Muslims
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  • Re: List of Contradictions in the Qur'an
     Reply #9 - August 25, 2009, 04:19 PM

    Good find! Of course to Muslims, there is NO contradiction at all lol. If you were to show this to a muslim, they would tell you to go to www.answering-christianity.com

    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: List of Contradictions in the Qur'an
     Reply #10 - August 25, 2009, 08:41 PM

    I'm not certain that these verses contradict each other in a clear-cut way. I assume the word 'thumma' is used in Arabic, some translate it as 'moreover'. See Yusuf Ali's translation:

    79:27: What! Are ye the more difficult to create or the heaven (above)? (Allah) hath constructed it:
    79:28: On high hath He raised its canopy, and He hath given it order and perfection.
    79:29: Its night doth He endow with darkness, and its splendour doth He bring out (with light).
    79:30: And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse);

    2:29: It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on earth; Moreover His design comprehended the heavens, for He gave order and perfection to the seven firmaments; and of all things He hath perfect knowledge.


    Yes, Muslims will always try to wriggle out of it, but Thumma shows progression and sequence and the use of Istawa emphasizes that..

    The Qur'an has many examples of Thumma meaning suche sequential progression - for example the verses about the growth of the embryo:








    Hell is an absurd & wicked fiction. You're not a bad person for rejecting something that's cruel, irrational, unjust & lacks evidence. You have nothing to fear. Nothing to feel ashamed about. Enjoy your life. Do the best you can. Make yourself & others happy.
  • Re: List of Contradictions in the Qur'an
     Reply #11 - August 25, 2009, 08:44 PM

    Another good link re-contradictions:

    http://ladeenion1.blogspot.com/2007/11/blog-post_04.html

    Hell is an absurd & wicked fiction. You're not a bad person for rejecting something that's cruel, irrational, unjust & lacks evidence. You have nothing to fear. Nothing to feel ashamed about. Enjoy your life. Do the best you can. Make yourself & others happy.
  • Re: List of Contradictions in the Qur'an
     Reply #12 - August 25, 2009, 08:47 PM

    Quote
    Another good link re-contradictions:


    Man! Anything in english? I want to show the missus. Anyything but answering-islam.com.
  • Re: List of Contradictions in the Qur'an
     Reply #13 - August 25, 2009, 08:52 PM

    More contradictions :
    Allah`s word doesnot change..
    verse 6 34:
    "And none can alter the words of Allah. And there has certainly come to you some information about the [previous] messengers."

    Verse 10:64
    " No change is there in the words of Allah. That is what is the great attainment. "

    Verse 6:115
    "And the word of your Lord has been fulfilled in truth and in justice. None can alter His words, and He is the Hearing, the Knowing."

    Verse 18:27
    "And recite, [O Muhammad], what has been revealed to you of the Book of your Lord. There is no changer of His words, and never will you find in other than Him a refuge.""

    Allah Changes his words as he likes ..

    Verse 2:106
    "We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth [one] better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent?

    verse 16:101

    And when We substitute a verse in place of a verse - and Allah is most knowing of what He sends down - they say, "You, [O Muhammad], are but an inventor [of lies]." But most of them do not know.

    أشهد أن لا إله إلا الله وأن محمدآ عبده ورسوله
  • Re: List of Contradictions in the Qur'an
     Reply #14 - August 25, 2009, 08:53 PM

    20yearstoolong, out of curiosity, your wife is a muslim then?

    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: List of Contradictions in the Qur'an
     Reply #15 - August 25, 2009, 08:55 PM

    Man! Anything in english? I want to show the missus. Anyything but answering-islam.com.


    The most objective ones in english (as also mentioned by Farid up top): http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/contra/by_name.html (NOT a christian site, it's an atheist/agnostic site)

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."

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  • Re: List of Contradictions in the Qur'an
     Reply #16 - August 25, 2009, 08:56 PM

    Man! Anything in english? I want to show the missus. Anyything but answering-islam.com.


    Sorry, mate.

    But although I dislike the answering-Islam site because I hate the hypocrisy of Christians who attack Islam with such venom (pot calling kettle black and all that) - I have to say that many of the articles I have read there are quite well researched and well-informed.

    Hell is an absurd & wicked fiction. You're not a bad person for rejecting something that's cruel, irrational, unjust & lacks evidence. You have nothing to fear. Nothing to feel ashamed about. Enjoy your life. Do the best you can. Make yourself & others happy.
  • Re: List of Contradictions in the Qur'an
     Reply #17 - August 25, 2009, 08:57 PM

    This thread makes me think perhaps there should be a section in this forum for learning the basics/foundations of arabic? and the people in here who know arabic could set it up...  just an idea, i don't know how difficult it would be or... anyway just thought since it is the language of the quran it would fit in here.

    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: List of Contradictions in the Qur'an
     Reply #18 - August 25, 2009, 08:58 PM

    20yearstoolong, out of curiosity, your wife is a muslim then?


    Yep, a nominal one though. She doesn't pray or fast etc. Doesn't even force her beliefs on the kids. I do hope she manages to get rid of the nonsense superstition though.
  • Re: List of Contradictions in the Qur'an
     Reply #19 - August 25, 2009, 09:01 PM

    Sorry, mate.

    But although I dislike the answering-Islam site because I hate the hypocrisy of Christians who attack Islam with such venom (pot calling kettle black and all that) - I have to say that many of the articles I have read there are quite well researched and well-informed.


    I think it might be a good idea to compile a section if there isn't one with all the contradictions. These can then be passed on if anyone needs them.
  • Re: List of Contradictions in the Qur'an
     Reply #20 - August 25, 2009, 09:54 PM

    why isn't there anytihng on the contradictions of the torah :S

    and yeah I agree, answering islam/christianity really ahve no basis to point fingers at each other

    Closets after closets
  • Re: List of Contradictions in the Qur'an
     Reply #21 - August 25, 2009, 10:55 PM

    Old folks didnot convey the quran right,

    Verse 17:23
    Allah commands us to worship Him alone, with no partner or associate. The word Qada [normally having the meaning of decree] here means "commanded''. Mujahid said that..
    (And He has Qada) means enjoined. This is also how Ubayy bin Ka`b, Ibn Mas`ud and Ad-Dahhak bin Muzahim recited the Ayah as:
    "And your Lord has Wassa [enjoined] that you worship none but Him.'' The idea of worshipping Allah is connected to the idea of honoring one's parents.

    in the arabic tafseer of tabary it said that it was written Wassa but letters were joined and it was read Qada..

    http://quran.al-islam.com/Tafseer/DispTafsser.asp?l=arb&taf=TABARY&nType=1&nSora=17&nAya=23

    أشهد أن لا إله إلا الله وأن محمدآ عبده ورسوله
  • Re: List of Contradictions in the Qur'an
     Reply #22 - August 25, 2009, 11:33 PM

    I think we need a thread about Hadeath contradictions too!

    Mo said: Most hell residents are women!

    Mo also said: Heaven is under the feet of mothers!

     Huh?

    ...
  • Re: List of Contradictions in the Qur'an
     Reply #23 - August 26, 2009, 02:00 PM

    verse 4:128
    Allah states, and thus legislates accordingly, that sometimes, the man inclines away from his wife, sometimes towards her and sometimes he parts with her. In the first case, when the wife fears that her husband is steering away from her or deserting her, she is allowed to forfeit all or part of her rights, such as provisions, clothing, dwelling, and so forth, and the husband is allowed to accept such concessions from her. Hence, there is no harm if she offers such concessions, and if her husband accepts them.

    http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=4&tid=12406

    http://quran.al-islam.com/Tafseer/DispTafsser.asp?nType=1&bm=&nSeg=0&l=arb&nSora=4&nAya=128&taf=KATHEER&tashkeel=1

    Verse 4:34
    As to those women on whose part you see ill conduct, admonish them (first)).(abandon them in their beds,)beat them) means, if advice and ignoring her in the bed do not produce the desired results, you are allowed to discipline the wife, without severe beating.


    أشهد أن لا إله إلا الله وأن محمدآ عبده ورسوله
  • Re: List of Contradictions in the Qur'an
     Reply #24 - August 26, 2009, 02:26 PM

    Muslims Ethics in wars :
    verse 59:5
    http://quran.al-islam.com/Tafseer/DispTafsser.asp?nType=1&bm=&nSeg=0&l=arb&nSora=59&nAya=5&taf=KATHEER&tashkeel=1

    (What you cut down of the Linah, or you left them standing on their stems, it was by leave of Allah, and in order that He might disgrace the rebellious.)

    When the Messenger of Allah laid siege to Bani An-Nadir, to humiliate them and bring fear and terror to their hearts, he ordered their date trees to be cut down. Muhammad bin Ishaq narrated that Yazid bin Ruman, Qatadah and Muqatil bin Hayyan said, "Bani An-Nadir sent a message to the Messenger , saying that he used to outlaw mischief in the earth, so why did he order that their trees be cut down Allah sent down this honorable Ayah stating that whatever Linah was felled or left intact by the Muslims, has been done by His permission, will, leave and pleasure to humiliate and disgrace the enemy and degrade them.'' Mujahid said, "Some of the emigrants discouraged others from chopping down the date trees of Jews, saying that they were war spoils for Muslims. The Qur'an approved of the actions of those who discouraged and those who approved of cutting these trees, stating that those who cut them or did not, did so only by Allah's leave..

    http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=59&tid=53126

    أشهد أن لا إله إلا الله وأن محمدآ عبده ورسوله
  • Re: List of Contradictions in the Qur'an
     Reply #25 - January 07, 2010, 12:20 AM

    For anyone of you who have friends and family still stuck within Islamic bootcamp, this might be a good starting video to start the first tremors in their worldview

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLk7vL6Pwe4

    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: List of Contradictions in the Qur'an
     Reply #26 - January 07, 2010, 03:26 AM

    Personally I don't think there are any "clear cut" contradictions in the Qur'an. I mean, I'm not even muslim, but those list of contradictions in the Qur'an are BS. There are scientific errors however.

    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: List of Contradictions in the Qur'an
     Reply #27 - January 07, 2010, 03:34 AM

    when faced with a contradiction, like christians go to hell / heaven or  humans produced from mud/clay/water/from the dead, then how can these not be contradictions?  what happens is they claim they are contextual/metaphorical when it makes not sense or contradicts itself, thus making it impossible to do. 

    However if they do this, then it makes the Quran an unworthy as literal way to lead your life as it is impossible then to know how to interepret it.

    Either way they're buggered.

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  • Re: List of Contradictions in the Qur'an
     Reply #28 - January 07, 2010, 03:55 AM

    when faced with a contradiction, like christians go to hell / heaven or  humans produced from mud/clay/water/from the dead, then how can these not be contradictions?  what happens is they claim they are contextual/metaphorical when it makes not sense or contradicts itself, thus making it impossible to do. 

    However if they do this, then it makes the Quran an unworthy as literal way to lead your life as it is impossible then to know how to interepret it.

    Either way they're buggered.


    The problem is with metaphors, who decides when and when it isn't a metaphor? an old geiser with a long beard and a double hyphenated elongated name with sheikh at the beginning? when does allegory stop and 'real begins'? if most of it is allegory then it is open to interpretation therefore it is impossible to have sharia because then there would be no uniformity in interpretation.

    Then there is the obvious question and the most obvious contradiction - how come 90% of the rules Muslims need to follow are outside the official canon (Qur'an)? why aren't the directions of pray in the actual book? why does it have so little in the way of laws and rules? Was God to lazy to make the rules and thus left it up to his prophet? why then wasn't it written down at the time instead of leaving it 200 years to finally collate all the narrations together?

    Islam from top to bottom is a giant contradiction - never mind the Qur'an itself.

    "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
  • Re: List of Contradictions in the Qur'an
     Reply #29 - January 07, 2010, 05:16 AM

    Just a quick taster of the contradictions - the "He is knower of all things" made me laugh - he obviously didn't know he'd contradicted himself  Cheesy:


    "Which was created first, the heavens or the earth?"

    The Heavens!

    Are you harder to create, or the heavens that He built? He raised its canopy, and He gave it order and perfection. And He made dark its night and brought out its light. Then after that He spread the earth. (An-Nazi'aat 27-30)

    The Earth!

    He it is Who created for you all that is in the earth. Then turned He to the heaven, and fashioned it as seven heavens. And He is knower of all things. (Al-Baqara 29)
    ما الذي خُلِق أولا السماوات أم الأرض:

    السماوات:

    ((أَأَنتُمْ أَشَدُّ خَلْقًا أَمِ السَّمَاء بَنَاهَا، رَفَعَ سَمْكَهَا فَسَوَّاهَا، وَأَغْطَشَ لَيْلَهَا وَأَخْرَجَ ضُحَاهَا، وَالْأَرْضَ بَعْدَ ذَلِكَ دَحَاهَا)) النازعات 27-30

    الأرض:

    ((هُوَ الَّذِي خَلَقَ لَكُم مَّا فِي الأَرْضِ جَمِيعاً ثُمَّ اسْتَوَى إِلَى السَّمَاء فَسَوَّاهُنَّ سَبْعَ سَمَاوَاتٍ وَهُوَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ )) البقرة 29


    i'm a little confused about that one.. i dont know arabic so its not so easy but when it says afterwards that 'he turned to the heavens' - wouldnt there already have to have been a heaven to turn to? does it make any sense to assume that he went back and 'perfected' it more after being done with earth? just curious.



    Quod est inferius est sicut quod est superius,
    et quod est superius est sicut quod est inferius,
    ad perpetranda miracula rei unius.
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