Cousin Marriages

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Cousin Marriages
OP - August 23, 2009, 09:16 PM

I would like to know what you guys think about the cousin marriages, either arranged or otherwise.

When I was a Muslim, I had nothing against it, though I was always aware that this was a medically unhealthy practice. I even had a crush on one of my cousins and I wanted to marry her. But she was older than me and this could not happen. (I am so glad)

However, after rejecting Islam, in the recent years I have turned against cousin marriages. This is partly because I have read some medical research, which shocked me and I got convinced that this is an unhealthy practice.

Another reason, my wife has a couple of pure breed dogs. I have seen how pure breed dogs suffer from genetic degeneration because of inbreeding. So there are a few things which may have shaped my thinking.

I would like to know what other ex-Muslims think about this.
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Re: Cousin Marriages
Reply #1 - August 23, 2009, 09:22 PM

Quote
I would like to know what you guys think about the cousin marriages, either arranged or otherwise.

When I was a Muslim, I had nothing against it, though I was always aware that this was a medically unhealthy practice. I even had a crush on one of my cousins and I wanted to marry her. But she was older than me and this could not happen. (I am so glad)

However, after rejecting Islam, in the recent years I have turned against cousin marriages. This is partly because I have read some medical research, which shocked me and I got convinced that this is an unhealthy practice.

Another reason, my wife has a couple of pure breed dogs. I have seen how pure breed dogs suffer from genetic degeneration because of inbreeding. So there are a few things which may have shaped my thinking.

I would like to know what other ex-Muslims think about this.

I'm married to my first cousin and don't see anything wrong with it at a physical level. There may be research to indicate otherwise and I'm aware of some couples who have had problems regarding children. Although I would discourage it for other reasons.
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Re: Cousin Marriages
Reply #2 - August 23, 2009, 09:24 PM

I have many family members who have married. But never first or second cousins.
They must at least be 5th removed otherwise it is not acceptable.

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Re: Cousin Marriages
Reply #3 - August 23, 2009, 09:32 PM

From a genetic point of view it is not much of a risk if it only happens occasionally, but it is a definite risk if it happens continually. The example of pure-bred dogs is a good one. Humans, and any other animals for that matter, are susceptible to the same sort of problems if they become inbred. If the rest of your family is "outbreeding" and you marry your first cousin then everything will probably be ok. If everyone is marrying their first cousins for generations then I would expect a higher incidence of inherited problems compared to a control group. This need not include lack of intelligence. It can be a range of minor physical symptoms or it could end up being something more serious.

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Re: Cousin Marriages
Reply #4 - August 23, 2009, 09:33 PM

I think that as long as you love each other, nothing matters...

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Re: Cousin Marriages
Reply #5 - August 23, 2009, 09:35 PM

The risk of a child being born with genetic defects to parents who are first cousins is higher than a child born to parents who aren't first cousins. The increased risk for first cousins is 1.7 - 2.8% higher than the base risk of about 3%.

Saying that, I don't believe anyone can stand in the way of personal choice and if two consenting adults who are first cousins want to get married and have kids, that is their own personal business.

And on a cultural note, the taboo of marrying cousins is really a very recent thing, only in the last century or so. Lets take Philip II, who was king of Spain from 1554 - 1598 as an example.

His first wife was his double first cousin
His second wife, Mary I of England was his first cousin once removed
His fourth wife was an even closer relation than his first cousin; she was his niece!

And this was considered quite normal.

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Re: Cousin Marriages
Reply #6 - August 23, 2009, 10:33 PM

Quote from: 20yearstoolong on August 23, 2009, 09:22 PM
Although I would discourage it for other reasons.

family interference?

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Re: Cousin Marriages
Reply #7 - August 23, 2009, 10:34 PM

Yeah, family interference is one reason to be suspicious of cousin marriages. A lot of people are forced or at least pressured into marrying cousins.

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Re: Cousin Marriages
Reply #8 - August 23, 2009, 11:39 PM

yep, cousin marriages were forced in my family, ugh. My parents are first cousins, it's just fucked up. tons of my relatives are also first cousins and let me tell you firsthand the kids are messed up! we all have depression, diabetes, heart disease and eczema potent in my family. my ancesters are just stupid fucks, and my mom was basically forced into it, tho she's an idiot for not divorcing my dad when she got the chance.

beside genetic, and forced reasons, you can't say shit abotu ur mother inlow/father in law or so so and because you're related to them also and it's all taken SOOOO persoanliy. it's a shitty situation, at least from my experience

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Re: Cousin Marriages
Reply #9 - August 24, 2009, 08:12 AM

Quote from: IsLame on August 23, 2009, 10:33 PM
family interference?

Yeah, that's a start!
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Re: Cousin Marriages
Reply #10 - August 24, 2009, 03:18 PM

Quote
And on a cultural note, the taboo of marrying cousins is really a very recent thing, only in the last century or so. Lets take Philip II, who was king of Spain from 1554 - 1598 as an example.

His first wife was his double first cousin
His second wife, Mary I of England was his first cousin once removed
His fourth wife was an even closer relation than his first cousin; she was his niece!

And this was considered quite normal.

No, it wasn't considered normal. He needed a dispensation from the Pope for all of those marriages, and it would only have been granted because he was royalty. Up till the Enlightenment freed people from religious rules cousin marriage would be all but impossible for the common folk, and Catholic countries to this day have a high level of social stigma against cousin marriage.

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Re: Cousin Marriages
Reply #11 - August 24, 2009, 03:36 PM

I don't know about common folk, but cousin marriages were certainly not uncommon amongst royalty in the Early Modern period. Ferdinand of Aragon and Isabella of Spain were cousins. Charles V married his cousin, as did Mary Queen of Scots and Louis XIV.

Are you sure Philip II needed dispensation from the Popes for his marriages? I have never heard that before.

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Re: Cousin Marriages
Reply #12 - August 24, 2009, 03:40 PM

All of those people would have needed special dispensations from the Pope for marrying cousins, neices, etc. Henry the Eighth even needed one to marry his brother's widow. Such dispensations were only usually granted for royalty, and only carried out for dynastic reasons. They certainly weren't the norm.

Its a bit like the way now that the royal family of Monaco can always get their marriages annulled, whereas ordinary Catholics rarely can.

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Re: Cousin Marriages
Reply #13 - August 24, 2009, 03:52 PM

Yeah, but Henry VIII marrying his brother's widow was considered a much bigger deal than marrying close relatives because that is a contentious issue in the bible. There was some quote from the bible which I can't quite remember. Henry VIII actually had valid grounds to annul his marriage because she was his brother's widow but the reason the Pope refused was because he was being influenced by Charles V, who was CofA's nephew.

I am not going to lie, I am no expert on dynastic marriages, but I can't see why marrying close relatives would have required dispensation from the Pope. The Book of Common Prayer has a big list of people who you are not allowed to marry, and first cousins are not included in that. I know it is a Protestant book, but were Catholics really that different to Protestants on the issue of marriage?

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Re: Cousin Marriages
Reply #14 - August 24, 2009, 04:02 PM

Quote
I am not going to lie, I am no expert on dynastic marriages, but I can't see why marrying close relatives would have required dispensation from the Pope. The Book of Common Prayer has a big list of people who you are not allowed to marry, and first cousins are not included in that. I know it is a Protestant book, but were Catholics really that different to Protestants on the issue of marriage?

On that issue, yes. Any degree of consanguinity could annul a marriage according to the Catholic Church. If you go back further to medieval times, the rules were so strictly drawn that I wonder how anybody living in a small village or hamlet managed to get married at all.

Here's the rules as they stand today....

Legal prohibitions on marriage between cousins (and other close blood relationships, such as uncle and niece) stem from the Church's ban on such marriages. Before 1983, marriages between second cousins were prohibited?indeed, former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani received an annulment of his first marriage after determining that his wife was his second cousin. Today, second-cousin marriages are allowed, and, under some circumstances, a dispensation can be obtained to allow a first-cousin marriage. The Church still discourages such marriages, however.

http://catholicism.about.com/od/catholicliving/f/FAQ_Marriage.htm

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Re: Cousin Marriages
Reply #15 - August 24, 2009, 05:36 PM

It looks like you have educated me, Cheetah! I did not realise that marrying cousins was a taboo in Catholicism, especially considered Phil II married his niece!

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Re: Cousin Marriages
Reply #16 - August 24, 2009, 06:21 PM

Yukky! One law for the rich and one for the poor, typical.

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Re: Cousin Marriages
Reply #17 - August 24, 2009, 07:12 PM

Could be really dangerous,

My auntie is married to her cousin, my uncle as well;

circumstances could be seriously sad..

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Re: Cousin Marriages
Reply #18 - August 24, 2009, 07:51 PM

Two of my first cousins, who are themselves first cousins to each other, are married and their little son is deaf without hearing aids. He also can't talk like other kids, perhaps just a few words like mother and father.

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Re: Cousin Marriages
Reply #19 - August 29, 2009, 04:37 AM

Well said Farid --- I think that as long as you love each other, nothing matters..

Thats right..Anyone can marry anyone if they love that much...

I dont see any problem in that....
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Re: Cousin Marriages
Reply #20 - August 29, 2009, 11:39 AM

There's a lot of cousin marriages in my family and as a result there are a lot of disabled kids. My family are recognising this problem though, hopefully it should all start changing soon.

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Re: Cousin Marriages
Reply #21 - August 29, 2009, 09:15 PM

Sameer, read what Peru just said. The problem is genetics. Prolonged inbreeding is likely to be detrimental to your kids. It's that simple.

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Re: Cousin Marriages
Reply #22 - August 29, 2009, 09:53 PM

There's nothing wrong in marrying for love. Thanks to evolution you are not very likely to fall in love with relatives so in a normal environment cousin marriages wouldn't be a normal occurrence.

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Re: Cousin Marriages
Reply #23 - August 29, 2009, 10:53 PM

Quote from: aliadiere on August 24, 2009, 05:36 PM
It looks like you have educated me, Cheetah! I did not realise that marrying cousins was a taboo in Catholicism, especially considered Phil II married his niece!

Even in India, Christians are supposed to consider their cousins as siblings. But what is the theological ground? Anything in the bible? Cousin marriages were commonplace in the old testament.

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