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 Topic: Verses spoken by Muhammad

 (Read 5163 times)
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  • Verses spoken by Muhammad
     OP - August 23, 2009, 04:58 PM

    Posted this at the Muslim Zone: grin12 dance
    http://www.themuslimzone.com/knowledge-quran-sunnah/4094-verses-spoken-muhammad.html

    EDIT: They banned me and the thread got deleted. See below to read what I posted there.

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  • Re: Verses spoken by Muhammad
     Reply #1 - August 23, 2009, 05:33 PM

    Good points Aziz. Well I had the same problem once, but some dude named Ozzycda told me that Allah is "simply quoting" what other prophets had said before. If you don't know who he is, its this guy. Warning, he is an apologist...

    http://www.youtube.com/user/ozzycda


    Most of this guys rebuttals come directly from www.answering-christianity.com

    The articles on that website are very unprofessional and rude imo.

    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: Verses spoken by Muhammad
     Reply #2 - August 23, 2009, 06:04 PM

    I agree, i hate that site! I don't like answering-islam either, both may have their valid (and accurate proofs), but neither will admit they're BOTH wrong

    Closets after closets
  • Re: Verses spoken by Muhammad
     Reply #3 - August 23, 2009, 06:39 PM

    No doubt.  grin12 The Prophet Muhammad spoke was Kalam-ullah, the Word of God.  thnkyu

    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • Re: Verses spoken by Muhammad
     Reply #4 - August 23, 2009, 07:47 PM

    No doubt.  grin12 The Prophet Muhammad spoke was Kalam-ullah, the Word of God.  thnkyu

    Very interesting and profound explanation. thnkyu

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  • Re: Verses spoken by Muhammad
     Reply #5 - August 24, 2009, 12:49 AM

    Yippieh, I got banned! Cheesy
    Quote
    You have been banned for the following reason:
    spam

    Date the ban will be lifted: Never


    Here is the message I posted there:
    ========================

    Hello,

    I'm sorry I didn't introduce myself before posting this question here. Frankly I'm only interested in learning the answer to my question from you. I couldn't find anything with Google, so I'm gonna ask right away. There are some verses in the Qur'an which I find very problematic to its claim to be authored by a perfect God and to be written in a very clear and understandable manner. The issue is that a few verses seem to be missing the word "say/said" in order to make it distinctly clear that somebody else, instead of Allah, is talking from there on. The Qur'an is written from the perspective of Allah, the book is entirely his word.

    So why is it that most of the time Allah properly quotes Muhammad, other prophets and other people in his book, but in a few verses he seems to have forgotten to do that. This confuses a reader of the text quite strongly in my opinion, especially since it is claimed to be a divine and perfect revelation from God himself.

    Please keep in mind, that I'm not a believer and I have not come to smash anyone's faith here with this question. I'm simply curious and want to hear what learned Muslims have to say on this topic.

    I haven't provided a context to these verses, but anybody who is interested to research this, will surely look them up themselves. The verses are as follows: (Translation by Yusuf Ali.)

    6:104: "Now have come to you, from your Lord, proofs (to open your eyes): if any will see, it will be for (the good of) his own soul; if any will be blind, it will be to his own (harm): I am not (here) to watch over your doings."
    6:114: (Say:) "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.
    9:30: The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
    11:2: (It teacheth) that ye should worship none but Allah. (Say): "Verily I am (sent) unto you from Him to warn and to bring glad tidings:

    The whole set of verses here:
    37:164: (Those ranged in ranks say): "Not one of us but has a place appointed;
    37:165: "And we are verily ranged in ranks (for service);
    37:166: "And we are verily those who declare (Allah's) glory!"
    37:167: And there were those who said,
    37:168: "If only we had had before us a Message from those of old,
    37:169: "We should certainly have been Servants of Allah, sincere (and devoted)!"
    37:170: But (now that the Qur'an has come), they reject it: But soon will they know!

    51:50: Hasten ye then (at once) to Allah: I am from Him a Warner to you, clear and open!
    51:51: And make not another an object of worship with Allah: I am from Him a Warner to you, clear and open!
    63:4: When thou lookest at them, their exteriors please thee; and when they speak, thou listenest to their words. They are as (worthless as hollow) pieces of timber propped up, (unable to stand on their own). They think that every cry is against them. They are the enemies; so beware of them. The curse of Allah be on them! How are they deluded (away from the Truth)!

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  • Re: Verses spoken by Muhammad
     Reply #6 - August 24, 2009, 12:05 PM

    I'd be interested in the opinion of an Arabic speaking member regarding these verses.

    Aren't these simply mistakes that naturally occur when humans compose big books? Has this already been brought up in Arabic forums that criticize Islam and the Qur'an? What has been the response of Arabic speaking Muslims?

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  • Re: Verses spoken by Muhammad
     Reply #7 - August 24, 2009, 12:16 PM

    No Thread specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator

    What happened  Roll Eyes

    Maliki yawm ul LULZ
  • Re: Verses spoken by Muhammad
     Reply #8 - August 24, 2009, 12:33 PM

    I didnot get ur question :( but i think i saw something like that in the arabic ex-muslims forum
    i quote from a member there in arabic :
    إقرأ مقدمة سورة هود: ((الر كِتَابٌ أُحْكِمَتْ آيَاتُهُ ثُمَّ فُصِّلَتْ مِنْ لَدُنْ حَكِيمٍ خَبِيرٍ (1) أَلاَّ تَعْبُدُوا إِلاَّ اللَّهَ إِنَّنِي لَكُمْ مِنْهُ نَذِيرٌ وَبَشِيرٌ (2) وَأَنْ اسْتَغْفِرُوا رَبَّكُمْ ثُمَّ تُوبُوا إِلَيْهِ يُمَتِّعْكُمْ مَتَاعاً حَسَناً إِلَى أَجَلٍ مُسَمًّى وَيُؤْتِ كُلَّ ذِي فَضْلٍ فَضْلَهُ وَإِنْ تَوَلَّوْا فَإِنِّي أَخَافُ عَلَيْكُمْ عَذَابَ يَوْمٍ كَبِيرٍ))

    إقرأ الكلمات التي باللون الأحمر وقل لي من هو قائل هذه الآيات .. وسترى بوضوح أنه من المستحيل أن يكون الله قائلها ..

    أشهد أن لا إله إلا الله وأن محمدآ عبده ورسوله
  • Re: Verses spoken by Muhammad
     Reply #9 - August 24, 2009, 12:39 PM

    Correct Prosaic,

    and even there are clearer verses where Mu. seems to be speaking.

    "I'm Agnostic about God."

    Richard Dawkins
    ==
    "If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
     George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran."  Maryam Namazie
  • Re: Verses spoken by Muhammad
     Reply #10 - August 24, 2009, 12:49 PM

    i would love to see a respond to that by muslims , but personally i think it was because of the weird way they collected verses , they used to write them every where , and even keep them under beds , no wonder the verses are grammatically messed up..

    أشهد أن لا إله إلا الله وأن محمدآ عبده ورسوله
  • Re: Verses spoken by Muhammad
     Reply #11 - August 24, 2009, 01:13 PM

    I didnot get ur question :( but i think i saw something like that in the arabic ex-muslims forum
    i quote from a member there in arabic :
    إقرأ مقدمة سورة هود: ((الر كِتَابٌ أُحْكِمَتْ آيَاتُهُ ثُمَّ فُصِّلَتْ مِنْ لَدُنْ حَكِيمٍ خَبِيرٍ (1) أَلاَّ تَعْبُدُوا إِلاَّ اللَّهَ إِنَّنِي لَكُمْ مِنْهُ نَذِيرٌ وَبَشِيرٌ (2) وَأَنْ اسْتَغْفِرُوا رَبَّكُمْ ثُمَّ تُوبُوا إِلَيْهِ يُمَتِّعْكُمْ مَتَاعاً حَسَناً إِلَى أَجَلٍ مُسَمًّى وَيُؤْتِ كُلَّ ذِي فَضْلٍ فَضْلَهُ وَإِنْ تَوَلَّوْا فَإِنِّي أَخَافُ عَلَيْكُمْ عَذَابَ يَوْمٍ كَبِيرٍ))

    إقرأ الكلمات التي باللون الأحمر وقل لي من هو قائل هذه الآيات .. وسترى بوضوح أنه من المستحيل أن يكون الله قائلها ..


    can you under line please? I don't get which part of the verse you are talking about?

    ...
  • Re: Verses spoken by Muhammad
     Reply #12 - August 24, 2009, 01:25 PM

    can you under line please? I don't get which part of the verse you are talking about?

    It's verse 2 from chapter 11, named Hud. I listed this verse in my criticism above.

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  • Re: Verses spoken by Muhammad
     Reply #13 - August 24, 2009, 01:35 PM

    مقدمة سورة هود: ((الر كِتَابٌ أُحْكِمَتْ آيَاتُهُ ثُمَّ فُصِّلَتْ مِنْ لَدُنْ حَكِيمٍ خَبِيرٍ (1) أَلاَّ تَعْبُدُوا إِلاَّ اللَّهَ اننى لكم منه نَذِيرٌ وَبَشِيرٌ (2) وَأَنْ اسْتَغْفِرُوا رَبَّكُمْ ثُمَّ تُوبُوا إِلَيْهِ يُمَتِّعْكُمْ مَتَاعاً حَسَناً إِلَى أَجَلٍ مُسَمًّى وَيُؤْتِ كُلَّ ذِي فَضْلٍ فَضْلَهُ وَإِنْ تَوَلَّوْا فانى أخاف عليكمعَذَابَ يَوْمٍ كَبِيرٍ))

    أشهد أن لا إله إلا الله وأن محمدآ عبده ورسوله
  • Re: Verses spoken by Muhammad
     Reply #14 - August 24, 2009, 01:37 PM

    I don know how to make them red , so i wrote them in bold font :-/ sorry didnot realize the mistake before ..

    أشهد أن لا إله إلا الله وأن محمدآ عبده ورسوله
  • Re: Verses spoken by Muhammad
     Reply #15 - August 24, 2009, 01:39 PM

    مقدمة سورة هود: ((الر كِتَابٌ أُحْكِمَتْ آيَاتُهُ ثُمَّ فُصِّلَتْ مِنْ لَدُنْ حَكِيمٍ خَبِيرٍ (1) أَلاَّ تَعْبُدُوا إِلاَّ اللَّهَ اننى لكم منه نَذِيرٌ وَبَشِيرٌ (2) وَأَنْ اسْتَغْفِرُوا رَبَّكُمْ ثُمَّ تُوبُوا إِلَيْهِ يُمَتِّعْكُمْ مَتَاعاً حَسَناً إِلَى أَجَلٍ مُسَمًّى وَيُؤْتِ كُلَّ ذِي فَضْلٍ فَضْلَهُ وَإِنْ تَوَلَّوْا فانى أخاف عليكمعَذَابَ يَوْمٍ كَبِيرٍ))



    Oh yes now I see what you mean! I bet they will say that it is Balagha! That god speaks in the tongue of Mohamed!

    ...
  • Re: Verses spoken by Muhammad
     Reply #16 - August 24, 2009, 02:01 PM

    Oh yes now I see what you mean! I bet they will say that it is Balagha! That god speaks in the tongue of Mohamed!

    More like palaver! Cheesy

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  • Grammer Mistake in Quran!
     Reply #17 - August 24, 2009, 02:53 PM

    Can anyone who speak Arabic tell me what he thinks of this?

    ...
  • Re: Verses spoken by Muhammad
     Reply #18 - August 24, 2009, 04:29 PM

    I have a brilliant idea. I think we should make a quiz for Muslims about these verses. Something like:

    Which one of these verses is actually in the Qur'an?:

    a) 11:2: (It teacheth) that ye should worship none but Allah. Verily Muhammad is (sent) unto you from Him to warn and to bring glad tidings:

    b) 11:2: (It teacheth) that ye should worship none but Allah. Verily Muhammad is (sent) unto you from Me to warn and to bring glad tidings:

    c) 11:2: (It teacheth) that ye should worship none but Allah. Verily I am (sent) unto you from Him to warn and to bring glad tidings:

    d) 11:2: (It teacheth) that ye should worship none but Allah. (Muhammad) Say: "Verily I am (sent) unto you from Him to warn and to bring glad tidings:

    I can imagine what the results would look like. Cheesy

    Edit: added another option.

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  • Re: Verses spoken by Muhammad
     Reply #19 - August 24, 2009, 04:58 PM

    Quran....?ever any book..written by a human being only..........

    Quran didnt fell from the sky...Can anyone prove that God gave that to the Billion times Oscar winner actor Muhammed ?

    There is a limit for anything,but this is too much.....

    Those guys are completely in blind faith...Without seeing anything itself..those guys are mad like that...? will happen if really there is God and he gives that book...and also talks.

    Thats it...these guys will become a monster..Already they are....

  • Re: Verses spoken by Muhammad
     Reply #20 - August 24, 2009, 05:21 PM

    The sabi'oon verse has a grammatical error that Hassan has mentioned in one of his videos.

    As for Muhammad talking instead of Allah. Just look at the first chapter of the Quran and you'll see Mo talking. One of my friends in university said that she wanted to see if Islam was from God. She opened the an English translation of the Quran and read the Fatiha. She noticed that it's a prayer from you to God. So this must be Mo talking. Then she closed the Quran and was forever convinced that the book was not from a God.

    .....This happened when she was 13. Lucky for her....
  • Re: Verses spoken by Muhammad
     Reply #21 - August 24, 2009, 05:33 PM

    Very interesting deconversion story. hehe

    Well, I know about al-Fatiha. The reason I didn't mention it is, because I figured Muslims would likely dismiss it immediately since it's an entire chapter (it's special, an exception etc.). However, the other verses I listed are really weird and they so obviously are mistakes in the text. Allah can't follow simple quotation rules. grin12

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  • Re: Verses spoken by Muhammad
     Reply #22 - October 17, 2009, 03:56 PM

    So I brought this up at the Afghan forum.

    To Arabic speakers: How would you fix this verse? Could you please post a corrected version, where "say" is actually in it?

    11:2: ألا تعبدوا إلا الله إنني لكم منه نذير وبشير
    11:2: (It teacheth) that ye should worship none but Allah. (Say): "Verily I am (sent) unto you from Him to warn and to bring glad tidings:

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