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 Topic: Staying together for the sake of the children?

 (Read 7753 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Staying together for the sake of the children?
     OP - July 07, 2009, 03:25 PM

    In a seperate thread a few people advised another member to stay in an unhappy marriage for the sake of the children.

    Without derailing that personal thread, I would like to know why this advice could ever be good advice to offer to someone?

    For myself I honestly would not ever, under any circumstances, consider staying with someone for the sake of the kids, nor would I ever offer it as advice to someone who was in an empty marriage.

    I believe that this is the worst possible thing you could do to your children under these circumstances, the misery is actually picked up on by the children and will impact their future relationships.

    My advice would always be to seperate for the sake of the children.  If you don't you are being dishonest with your children, and unfair to them, putting them through a sham life thinking you are doing them a favour.

    The best course of action is shared parenting, in a mature responsible manner.  Granted you can not control whether the other parent will act maturely in a seperation for the sake of the children, but it's also within your grasp to fight for the courts to lay down some rules that can not be broken.

    Do you not think your kids will grow to understand?  because mine do.  Or that they will not be happier, for seeing you happy?  because they would.

    So, why would you, those who did, advise someone to stay in a loveless marriage?

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Staying together for the sake of the children?
     Reply #1 - July 07, 2009, 03:36 PM

    I am with Hassan, for the sake of the Kids don't rush things!
    It might take time but by reasoning you might get her to understand eventually!


    My advice was not rush his decision and rather try to make his wife understand what was on his mind. I am speaking about an unhappy marriage because of religion! If the differences and the unhappiness is due to more than that, then that would be a different story!

    ...
  • Re: Staying together for the sake of the children?
     Reply #2 - July 07, 2009, 03:40 PM

    I'm with you Berbs, but was with you on that last thread too.

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  • Re: Staying together for the sake of the children?
     Reply #3 - July 07, 2009, 05:41 PM

    I understand what you are saying Berbs, but my advice would still always be to stay together if at all possible when young kids are involved.

    BUT I should make it clear that when I say "if at all possible" - I mean so long as the relationship has not become utterly impossible or abusive or violent etc...

    In your case I would definitely have advised leaving your husband.

    I know Pakman's situation a bit as I have met him personally and from what I understand it is nothing like that - just a drifting apart.

    This is very common in many relationships and as I say, my advice for those in this situation with young kids - is to stay together if at all possible.


  • Re: Staying together for the sake of the children?
     Reply #4 - July 07, 2009, 06:59 PM

    In a seperate thread a few people advised another member to stay in an unhappy marriage for the sake of the children.

    Without derailing that personal thread, I would like to know why this advice could ever be good advice to offer to someone?


    Economics could be one.  I don't know from the man's side, but I can tell you a little of what I know from the lives of friends.  A lot of Muslim women don't have that education, they don't have job experience, they don't have money of their own where they can support the children and themselves. If they divorce, their kids will be in a precarious situation, financially.  I don't know what it's like in the UK, but in the US, it's common for a lot of guys to not obey the support orders, to be delinquent, to withhold some or all of the money, to be in arrears, etc.  What does that mean? That means the wife is shit outta luck, that's what.  The court system is so backed up, they don't really have the resources or time to go after every guy who is delinquent on his support and make them pay, or if they do, it's after years and years of that. 

    I  just know for every wife who bites the bullet and takes the step to divorce, even with this financial uncertainty, there are a lot who don't.  I don't say one is better than the other, one is making the smarter decision, just different ones.  For me, I'm using this time to get myself ready.  I do not envision growing old with this person.  We don't live together, but we are still legally married and he supports us.  Is it ideal - hell the fuck no.  But even if we weren't at this point emotionally we still wouldn't be living together and *that's* not ideal and wonderful for them emotionally either. So I feel like it is a no-win situation where I just have to bide my time and make the best of it. 

    Another reason: custodial interference.  A lot of mothers fear that if they divorce while the kids are still young, it will be easier for the father to take them overseas.  It is extremely difficult to get your child back once the father has landed in a Muslim country, esp. if he is a citizen of that country.  So they wait until the kids are too old to be dragged overseas - if that means waiting until they are legal adults or teens big enough to not go along with going overseas.  I had a friend ages ago whose ex-husband used his court-ordered weekend visitation to hop a plane to Egypt where he held the child for three years.  In that time, she had to file papers against him, and she ended up moving to Egypt to see her son.  The courts in Egypt wouldn't give her the time of day.  She was finally able to re-abduct her son after she hired these guys who specialize in that, and get him back home, but there was a lot of psychological damage done to her and the boy (the father used those three years to tell him his mother was an evil whore who abandoned him).  And I have heard of other mothers who have had to hire vigilante types to get their kids back and on a plane to get them out of the Muslim countries from their ex-husbands. 

    I remember a few  years ago, there was this spate of convert women who "suddenly up and divorced their husbands & quit Islam" as their kids graduated high school or reached their mid-teens, and some of my friends were deeply concerned and wondering why, when it was obvious they were going along with it for however many years until their kids were old enough not to be forced or coerced onto a plane by their fathers. 

    I know a few guys who are in it "for the kids." I guess they don't want to break up the family while the kids are still young or one guy I know is concerned that his wife won't be able to make it if they divorce (yes, she can get spousal support and child support if she gets custody but it is never enough to maintain the life you have and in most cases, is not even enough to live on).  He's trying to encourage her to get a degree or some sort of professional training. 

    Also I am wondering if the element of shame is part of it? Because in some cultures or families, if you divorce then the parents, the siblings, everyone will be shamed, and it will be like, "Oh did you know so and so's daughter got divorced? What is wrong with her?" and all that pre-modern ignorant bullshit. 

    Quote
    I believe that this is the worst possible thing you could do to your children under these circumstances, the misery is actually picked up on by the children and will impact their future relationships.


    I agree unless it is one of those rare cases where the parents are able to maintain some sense of friendship and partnership.  Which almost no one can do.  I have to be very honest, I know of almost no Muslim marriages where the couple stays together which is happy and functional. But I don't want to get into that. 

    I just think every person has to do what they think is the best course of action - not the ideal, but the best - in a bad situation, for whatever that time period is. 

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: Staying together for the sake of the children?
     Reply #5 - July 07, 2009, 07:03 PM

    Oh no, I understand that it's a different scenario than the one played out between me and my ex, but what I'm looking for is an actual reason why you and RIBS would believe that staying together for the sake of the children is better for the children?

    Obviously something has helped shaped this impression, and I seek to understand what gain could come out of it in the long term.

    You haven't really explained why it's your advice, neither has RIBS, you have both just clarified where it wouldn't be good advice, which I never suspected you both of thinking any other way.  I know you would never recommend it under extreme circumstances.

    I am not criticising though, only seeking to understand the motivation behind the advice, the reasoning that makes it good enough advice for you to consider imparting it.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Staying together for the sake of the children?
     Reply #6 - July 07, 2009, 07:24 PM

    Economics could be one.  I don't know from the man's side, but I can tell you a little of what I know from the lives of friends.  A lot of Muslim women don't have that education, they don't have job experience, they don't have money of their own where they can support the children and themselves. If they divorce, their kids will be in a precarious situation, financially.  I don't know what it's like in the UK, but in the US, it's common for a lot of guys to not obey the support orders, to be delinquent, to withhold some or all of the money, to be in arrears, etc.  What does that mean? That means the wife is shit outta luck, that's what.  The court system is so backed up, they don't really have the resources or time to go after every guy who is delinquent on his support and make them pay, or if they do, it's after years and years of that. 


    I'm not sure how the welfare state plays out in the US, but in the UK financial fears need not be a worry.  Times will be tough, true, but you are not left to starve in those situations.

    I can't even afford a carpet for my house and we walk on bare concrete floors, inspite of us being here for a year, my finances are very very tight all of the time.  Still I prefer this poverty of the finances to that poverty of the emotions that I would have in a loveless marriage.

    My ex husband hasn't paid any child support since the day I left him, the courts won't enforce it.  However my kids will know this about their father, not because I am malicious, but because they see my life is a struggle and put 2 and 2 together when they are older.

    Quote

    I  just know for every wife who bites the bullet and takes the step to divorce, even with this financial uncertainty, there are a lot who don't.  I don't say one is better than the other, one is making the smarter decision, just different ones.  For me, I'm using this time to get myself ready.  I do not envision growing old with this person.  We don't live together, but we are still legally married and he supports us.  Is it ideal - hell the fuck no.  But even if we weren't at this point emotionally we still wouldn't be living together and *that's* not ideal and wonderful for them emotionally either. So I feel like it is a no-win situation where I just have to bide my time and make the best of it. 


    Don't get me wrong, I bided my time in confusion for awhile too, I know my situation was extreme in that there was violence and emotional abuse, but I froze in a stasis in which biding my time in the known, was safer than facing the unknown.

    So I understand part of where you are coming from.  Have you conciously acknowledged yourself as staying together for the sake of the children though, or is it that you are biding your time for other reasons?

    I mean the "staying together for the sake of the children" mentality is geared towards the childrens best interests, and if I am reading you correctly that doesn't sound like your main concern.

    Quote
    Another reason: custodial interference.  A lot of mothers fear that if they divorce while the kids are still young, it will be easier for the father to take them overseas.  It is extremely difficult to get your child back once the father has landed in a Muslim country, esp. if he is a citizen of that country.  So they wait until the kids are too old to be dragged overseas - if that means waiting until they are legal adults or teens big enough to not go along with going overseas.  I had a friend ages ago whose ex-husband used his court-ordered weekend visitation to hop a plane to Egypt where he held the child for three years.  In that time, she had to file papers against him, and she ended up moving to Egypt to see her son.  The courts in Egypt wouldn't give her the time of day.  She was finally able to re-abduct her son after she hired these guys who specialize in that, and get him back home, but there was a lot of psychological damage done to her and the boy (the father used those three years to tell him his mother was an evil whore who abandoned him).  And I have heard of other mothers who have had to hire vigilante types to get their kids back and on a plane to get them out of the Muslim countries from their ex-husbands. 


    Again, I'm not sure how things are in the US, but the courts have alerted the passport office that no passports are to issued to the children without my face to face permission.  He could techically get one from the moroccan embassy, but there is alot of red tape involved that he did not want to sort out whilst we were married, which would mean very substantial bribe sums would have to change hands to get past them.  Still I am always aware that this is a risk.

    However even then, even if it hadn't been violence driving me to leave, just being in a marriage where I have no passion, where I do not desire my partner more than life itself at times, I would still take that risk for the chance to find that passion with someone else eventually.  But until then live the way that sits best with me.

    Still, I am not criticising  Smiley I am just very interested in the thinkig process that leads to different choices under similiar situations.

    Quote
    I remember a few  years ago, there was this spate of convert women who "suddenly up and divorced their husbands & quit Islam" as their kids graduated high school or reached their mid-teens, and some of my friends were deeply concerned and wondering why, when it was obvious they were going along with it for however many years until their kids were old enough not to be forced or coerced onto a plane by their fathers. 

    I know a few guys who are in it "for the kids." I guess they don't want to break up the family while the kids are still young or one guy I know is concerned that his wife won't be able to make it if they divorce (yes, she can get spousal support and child support if she gets custody but it is never enough to maintain the life you have and in most cases, is not even enough to live on).  He's trying to encourage her to get a degree or some sort of professional training. 

    Also I am wondering if the element of shame is part of it? Because in some cultures or families, if you divorce then the parents, the siblings, everyone will be shamed, and it will be like, "Oh did you know so and so's daughter got divorced? What is wrong with her?" and all that pre-modern ignorant bullshit. 

    I agree unless it is one of those rare cases where the parents are able to maintain some sense of friendship and partnership.  Which almost no one can do. I have to be very honest, I know of almost no Muslim marriages where the couple stays together which is happy and functional. But I don't want to get into that. 

    I just think every person has to do what they think is the best course of action - not the ideal, but the best - in a bad situation, for whatever that time period is. 


    I am so glad (in a sad at the reality of it kind of way) that someone else has noticed this, I certainly had but I thought it was purely my circle.

    I agree about a person needing to do things in the way that they believe is best, of course, and shame could play a large part in it too.  I was never really that concerned with shame, although my parents managed to guilt me into caring about it for their sake at times, they weren't worthy enough to make it a long term charade I could ever play out.

    I think there is a gender divide on the understanding that goes with that choice though.  It's easier to understand why a woman would choose to stay based on financial, honour based, or fear based values, but it's a bit tougher to understand it from a males perspective.


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Staying together for the sake of the children?
     Reply #7 - July 07, 2009, 07:37 PM

    Oh no, I understand that it's a different scenario than the one played out between me and my ex, but what I'm looking for is an actual reason why you and RIBS would believe that staying together for the sake of the children is better for the children?

    Obviously something has helped shaped this impression, and I seek to understand what gain could come out of it in the long term.

    You haven't really explained why it's your advice, neither has RIBS, you have both just clarified where it wouldn't be good advice, which I never suspected you both of thinking any other way.  I know you would never recommend it under extreme circumstances.

    I am not criticising though, only seeking to understand the motivation behind the advice, the reasoning that makes it good enough advice for you to consider imparting it.


    The reason I give that advice is because of my own personal experience of getting divorced. We got divorced because we had drifted apart and were on a different wavelength. I realised that we simply were never compatible. I now also realise that my gradually diminishing faith made the gulf between us even greater.

    But kids don't understand all that. They just want to come home and hug mum and dad.

    I thought they would be better off out of an unhappy home. But you know, unless it is a really terribly unhappy home - they don't really give a shit - they just want mum and dad together. (I should have known that as I always wanted my mum and dad to stay together even though their relationship was extremely unhappy.)

    I saw my kids hang on to the hopeless hope that their mum and dad would get back together one day. I saw the heartache and confusion and upset it caused them - and still causes them. I saw the way they missed out on a parents company, example and role model. (in my case their mum). I saw the insecurities and problems it gave them. Things they will carry all their life.

    If I could turn the clock back I would have stayed together - at least till the kids reached their late teens.

    EDIT - I have also found that I am just as unhappy - or maybe more - than I was when I was in an unhappy marriage.
  • Re: Staying together for the sake of the children?
     Reply #8 - July 07, 2009, 08:11 PM

    If I could turn the clock back I would have stayed together - at least till the kids reached their late teens.

    Would you still say the same if you meet/had met the girl of your dreams? 

    The kids would have had some of what they needed, and you might have got what you were looking for.  You are not going to have these opportunities within a marriage, and are less likely to find them if you allow less time to do so.

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  • Re: Staying together for the sake of the children?
     Reply #9 - July 07, 2009, 08:22 PM

    Would you still say the same if you meet/had met the girl of your dreams?


    No  

    The kids would have had some of what they needed, and you might have got what you were looking for.  You are not going to have these opportunities within a marriage, and are less likely to find them if you allow less time to do so.


    It's a gamble though isn't it IsLame.

    If I met the girl of my dreams and had a happy home then divorce would have been well justified.

    As it happens I got into ANOTHER disastrous marriage and had two more kids and got divorced again. The last marriage being worse than my former.

    So in my experience it didn't work - I'd have been better off sticking it out in my first marriage.
  • Re: Staying together for the sake of the children?
     Reply #10 - July 07, 2009, 09:10 PM

    In my opinion, I still think its the right thing to do.  It gives you both an opportunity to regroup & reevaluate what you are looking for.  Then when you are both ready and prepared to make the effort to find somebody else, then it will happen.  Staying together for the sake of children does not really make sense to me.  You can always live near to each other, and enable the kids to get the best of both worlds. 

    In some regard, it may be for the better to do it early, as it stops children being brought up in a hostile environment and gives them a chance to get used to it.  I think it could be worse if this happens to them during their formative teenage years.

    But dont get me wrong, I dont think divource should be taken lightly, but if you're partner cant and wont accept you for who you are, then it is definitely time to move on.

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  • Re: Staying together for the sake of the children?
     Reply #11 - July 07, 2009, 09:13 PM

    Staying together for the sake of children does not really make sense to me.  You can always live near to each other, and enable the kids to get the best of both worlds...


    Tell that to the kids.
  • Re: Staying together for the sake of the children?
     Reply #12 - July 07, 2009, 09:29 PM

    I didnt say it was easy, but with 40% of marriages ending in divource, millions of people around the world make that difficult choice.  And on the whole, I think they have made the right one.  Thats why I believe it is even more important to make an informed choice from the start, one that is not necessarily based on love, but on reason too.  There are many ways of doing that, but I dont want to go into them here..

    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: Staying together for the sake of the children?
     Reply #13 - July 07, 2009, 09:38 PM

    In a post a long time ago I mentionned how I had worked with a Turkish girl who, at the home of friends of her parents, had met a young man. They were attracted to one another, but, as she said, they could not date so, in order to be together and get to know one another, they had to get married. They soon found out, that they were not compatible and so, at the age of 21, she was a divorcee.

    I also until recently had an Iraqi colleague. I once asked him how he had met his wife. He sort of just stared into space for a long time and finally asked me what I meant. I said well are her parents friends of your parents or did you meet some other way ? He then explained, that when he returned to Iraq after having worked in Jordan for 8 years, he asked his parents to find a wife for him. They eventually brought him a stack of photos and he was showing me with his hands how he had flicked through these photos and finally settled on the one he ended up marrying. I believe they met a couple of times before the marriage, probably properly chaperoned, but nevertheless, on the day of marriage they were virtually strangers to one another.

    He is an extremely nice gentle guy so I think she had been very lucky, which I told him and he said that he thought he had been very lucky, so that is well and good, but personally I could not imagine marrying and being intimate with someone I hardly knew.

    I also realised afterward that the reason it took him so long to answer my question was that he was baffled by it, since in his culture you do not just meet, so out of ignorance I asked a stupid question.

    Anyway I think that the above sounds like too much of a lotteri to me and I think that meeting one another f.inst at work, at university in a sportsclub or wherever, feel attracted to one another, date untill you thouroghly know one another is the best foundation for a marriage.

    Like a compass needle that points north, a man?s accusing finger always finds a woman. Always.

    Khaled Hosseini - A thousand splendid suns.
  • Re: Staying together for the sake of the children?
     Reply #14 - July 07, 2009, 09:39 PM

    But Hassan,wouldnt it be very dishonest to live in an unhappy marriage?
    For both the grown ups involved,and the kids?

    Can it be a healthy family life,when the grown ups is unhappy,with oneanother?Which signals of marriage life and happiness,would the children pick up on?

    Verry sorry to hear that you married again,and it did not work Hassan!



  • Re: Staying together for the sake of the children?
     Reply #15 - July 07, 2009, 09:53 PM

    As I have fallen with girls who are completely different to one another, I do not think love is really an important factor.  If you are embarking on a co-habiting contract for life, its best to dot the i's & cross the t's, and spend time living together.
    date untill you thouroghly know one another is the best foundation for a marriage.

    Also marry when you have worked out what you are and what is important to you.  Until then continue to date, no matter what that age maybe.  Same goes for the person you are marrying.  At that point you will realise if you can both go on your journey together, or whether they will eventually diverge. 

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Staying together for the sake of the children?
     Reply #16 - July 07, 2009, 10:07 PM

    Well I don't have any kids nor am I married. So this isn't really an issue for me.

    The single life is awesome  Afro

    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: Staying together for the sake of the children?
     Reply #17 - July 07, 2009, 10:15 PM

    My advice was not rush his decision and rather try to make his wife understand what was on his mind. I am speaking about an unhappy marriage because of religion! If the differences and the unhappiness is due to more than that, then that would be a different story!


    Berberella, I still think if the problem was the religion issue then he shouldn't rush into a divorce but rather wait until he had discussed his views on Islam with her and see what happens. Of course, I have no experience with unhappy marriage since I am blessed with a very understanding wife and a lovely one indeed. However, in case of a divorce, I would never let another man bring up my kids. I have nothing against single parents, but I believe that two parents might provide a better atmosphere for a developing child!!

    What I am saying is: religion should not be a reason for divorce unless there are other straws that would break the camels back!! When I got married about 10 years ago, my wife was a practicing Muslim, but eventually I talked her out of it and now she is as happy as one can be. So maybe things can turn to the better for Pakman too.... who knows!

    ...
  • Re: Staying together for the sake of the children?
     Reply #18 - July 07, 2009, 10:17 PM

    When I got married about 10 years ago, my wife was a practicing Muslim, but eventually I talked her out of it and now she is as happy as one can be. So maybe things can turn to the better for Pakman too.... who knows!

    So what does she believe now?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Staying together for the sake of the children?
     Reply #19 - July 07, 2009, 10:27 PM

    She believes in RIBS  grin12 Not me! RIBS the statement!! parrot

    ...
  • Re: Staying together for the sake of the children?
     Reply #20 - July 07, 2009, 10:45 PM

    Wise women, and well done for convincing her!

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Staying together for the sake of the children?
     Reply #21 - July 08, 2009, 08:02 AM

    Hmm... interesting thread. Well, I haven't been married so I can't speak from that perspective, but as a child of divorce I'd like to put in my two cents.

    My parents got a divorce when I was about 7... and as sad, confusing, tumultuous and generally unwelcome as the change was to me, I always understood that it was for the best. I don't think this understanding came completely from my parents' talks with me about the situation, although they both tried their best to make the transition easier for us, but rather from having spent the last few years as a witness of their fights and unhappiness. I think that as a kid you can sense your parents' unhappiness even if they don't make it obvious, and kids cant feel happy when their parents aren't. I knew that although the divorce wasn't the choice that I would pick for MY happiness, it would make them both happier and because I loved them I would be happier too in the long run.

    It wasn't an easy time and obviously I went through my share of emotional and psychological strain, but from my experience I would never, ever recommend that a couple stays together purely "for the sake of the children". We might have gone through financial problems during that time and we might have missed out on the "traditional" family life-- this does not compare to the benefits of the divorce, as we got to truly enjoy the company of each parent in their happy and peaceful state of mind.

    Five years after the divorce, after years of not speaking to each other outside of courtrooms, my parents started talking again and eventually decided to get back together. This was of course the greatest thing a child of divorce could ask for, and I realize how lucky my family is that things worked out this way in the end. However, I know that it was the divorce that allowed my parents to gain the perspective and experience that they needed in order to change things and make their relationship stronger. Had they stayed together for our sake instead, I am certain my childhood would have been a much unhappier and more distressing one.

    "when you've got thousands of hadith/sunnah and a book like the Qur'an where abrogation is propagated by some; anyone with a grudge and some time on their hands can find something to confirm what ever they wish"- Kaiwai
  • Re: Staying together for the sake of the children?
     Reply #22 - July 08, 2009, 08:15 AM

    Interesting perspective there.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Staying together for the sake of the children?
     Reply #23 - July 08, 2009, 08:32 AM

    Thank you for sharing that almostaisha and thank you Hassan for sharing what i know still brings you alot of sadness hugs.

    Hassan i think because you are in such a dark and unhappy place right now you are not seeing the true positives that you gave yourself and still have for yourself even now. You know that this time round you can get to know someone at your own pace and dont have the religious dictates that made you rush into marriages that didnt work out. There are alot of single people out there too and you are selling yourself short if you think even for a second that you cant find companionship that makes you happy one day. Where there is life there is hope and you are such an amazing person its bound to happen.  The kids dont realise now what a favour you did for them. But they will one day. Just not this day.

    inspite of knowing their dad was violent towards me my kids would be over the moon if me and their father were to get back together again, doesnt make it the right thing to do. Yes i know mine was more extreme but emotional damage can be just as intense long term.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Staying together for the sake of the children?
     Reply #24 - July 08, 2009, 09:41 AM

    I agree with Berbs as well.  My folks split up when I was a small child but I was lucky in that they were able to split amicably and my father didn't turn out to be a deadbeat dad.  Although part of me would have liked for them to have stayed together mainly as I would have seen more of my father whilst growing up I know deep down that had they done so I would have grown up in an unhappy household with unhappy parents in an unhappy marriage. 

    If you are dissatisfied with your marriage then how do you expect to raise happy healthy children from within that marriage?

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

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  • Re: Staying together for the sake of the children?
     Reply #25 - July 08, 2009, 09:54 AM

    I have always thought of it that way myself. Obviously there will be different circumstances for different cases but for sure, an unhappy household is unlikely to produce happy kids.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Staying together for the sake of the children?
     Reply #26 - July 08, 2009, 12:13 PM

    There are alot of single people out there


    Well they have to find where I live, knock on my door, grab me and tell me they love me!

    That's all!

    Not so hard  grin12
  • Re: Staying together for the sake of the children?
     Reply #27 - July 08, 2009, 05:30 PM

    ..... There are alot of single people out there too and you are selling yourself short if you think even for a second that you cant find companionship that makes you happy one day. Where there is life there is hope and you are such an amazing person its bound to happen......



    I guess BerberElla meant: you have to find where she (your potential soul mate) live, knock on her door, grab her and tell her that you love her! That's all! Roll Eyes

    ...
  • Re: Staying together for the sake of the children?
     Reply #28 - July 08, 2009, 06:27 PM

    Yes of course. I meant it exactly in that simplistic way. Roll Eyes

    Excuse me for having an optimistic outlook to share.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Staying together for the sake of the children?
     Reply #29 - July 08, 2009, 07:13 PM

    I was just joking, Berbs - I really did appreciate your words Smiley
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