2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?

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- ExHindu
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Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
Reply #90 - July 22, 2009, 04:23 PM

With regards to Youtubes policy, it only applies to content inside videos.

It is impossible to report peoples comments or messages, I have tried this and you cannot get anywhere through the help centre to report any comments or messages.

We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

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Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
Reply #91 - July 22, 2009, 04:25 PM

Quote from: IsLame on July 22, 2009, 04:13 PM
Of course, I dont doubt Nick Griffin is probably a white supremacist too. However, I stress again, we are talking about the party and if you can show me a part of the manifesto which shows they openly advocate white supremacy, as you originally implied, then I am happy to change my pov.

They do not allow black people to join the party.

Isnt that enough?

Watch this Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbDVTD5H9Lo

We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

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Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
Reply #92 - July 22, 2009, 04:30 PM

That would be enough if you could show me that is what they officially believe. But I thought that was limited to those of non-british descent, and in any case I thought they were changing that policy due to problems with European law.

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Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
Reply #93 - July 22, 2009, 04:30 PM

Also please watch this long 7 part BNP exposed undercover documentary, this is what they officially believe and what their members are like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__DdFiV7aT8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqI2kKX2c_c&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC-SNSGE7kI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8cle7tzQVM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=golUZjKJTAE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfk7XZ_yUZ8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1ZMF_z_CFc&feature=related

We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

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Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
Reply #94 - July 22, 2009, 04:33 PM

You are completely missing my point. Dont worry, I cant be bothered explaining it anymore.

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Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
Reply #95 - July 22, 2009, 04:35 PM

Quote from: IsLame
I understand youtubes policy, but can you show where white supremacy is officially part of BNP policy?

What ExHindu said. They do not allow black people into the party, just as the Islamofascist AKP doesn't allow atheists and gays into their ranks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_and_Development_Party

Quote
P.S Judging by your arguments in your last post, do you also believe Wilders should be banned on youtube?

I don't think Wilders is on the same level with the BNP, but if YouTube is going to ban all the hateful Islamist propaganda circulating there, yeah, banning Wilders would be a small price to pay.

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Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
Reply #96 - July 22, 2009, 04:41 PM

Quote from: IsLame on July 22, 2009, 04:33 PM
You are completely missing my point. Dont worry, I cant be bothered explaining it anymore.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2004/jun/10/uk.southafrica

Quote
White Supremacist aids BNP

A white supremacist linked to the murderer of the South African Communist party leader Chris Hani in 1993 has been playing a key role in the British National party's London election campaign.

Arthur Kemp has been drafted in by the party leader, Nick Griffin, to coordinate its attempt to win a seat on the London assembly.

If they are not white supremecists, then why would they employ such people???

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/georgepitcher/10038247/Guess_what_The_BNP_takes_whitesupremacist_cash_from_the_US/

Quote
Guess what? The BNP takes white-supremacist cash from the US

Who’d have thought it, eh? James Von Brunn, the white supremacist who shot dead a security guard, Stephen Tyrone Johns, at the Holocaust museum in Washington, attended fund-raising meetings of the American Friends of the British National Party.

We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

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Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
Reply #97 - July 22, 2009, 04:42 PM

Not sure why you are posting an AKP link, when we were talking about the BNP?

I am disappointed to learn that you believe Wilders should be banned on YouTube though, particulary as you are a fervent supporter of his.

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Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
Reply #98 - July 22, 2009, 04:43 PM

Because these White Supremecists are involved with the BNP, and even recruited by them. Even their leader is obviously one.

I believe that the leader, and also the company that they keep reflect the true intentions of the parrty.

The BNP have completely scrapped and rewritten their earlier agendas and manifestos from the previous years. What they say in 2009 is not what they were saying in 2007. Just because they use different words now does not mean that they are not the same party and people they were back then.

I only took interest in the BNP this year, but what they do or say now does not change what they are genuinely like, nor what they said and believed just a frw years ago.

We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

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Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
Reply #99 - July 22, 2009, 05:17 PM

Quote from: IsLame
Not sure why you are posting an AKP link, when we were talking about the BNP?

I was just providing a parallel. Banning a certain group of people based on sexual orientation, religious belief, ethnicity etc. from a political party is a telltale sign of fascism.

Quote from: IsLame
I am disappointed to learn that you believe Wilders should be banned on YouTube though, particulary as you are a fervent supporter of his.

No, what I said was that Wilders in not on the same level with the BNP. If YouTube is going to apply a stricter anti-hate policy however, I do not necessarily disagree with that.

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Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
Reply #100 - July 22, 2009, 05:48 PM

@Islame (assuming you're not trolling...), I already quoted the BNP's manifesto from 2005.

Further: "The BNP is wholly opposed to any form of racial integration between British and non-European peoples. It is therefore committed to stemming and reversing the tide of non-white immigration and to restoring the overwhelmingly white make-up of the British population that existed prior to 1948." (BNP consitution, section 1:2b)

But I'm sure they've had a change of heart...

Quote
But I thought that was limited to those of non-british descent, and in any case I thought they were changing that policy due to problems with European law.

Well, that's ok, then, isn't it? ... but, nonetheless, what do you think they think they mean by 'British'?? You only need to read their own propaganda (available on their website) to understand this.

Here is Mathew Collins (former member) exposing the BNP's plan for apartheid...:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4206117916677358363

...*that* is what they mean by 'encouraging' non-whites to leave the country.

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Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
Reply #101 - July 22, 2009, 06:17 PM

Quote from: Zaephon on July 22, 2009, 05:17 PM
No, what I said was that Wilders in not on the same level with the BNP. If YouTube is going to apply a stricter anti-hate policy however, I do not necessarily disagree with that.

Werent you agreeing with ex-hindu and saying youtube should apply a stricter policy, whereby groups such as the BNP & Wilders would be banned?

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Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
Reply #102 - July 22, 2009, 06:23 PM

Quote from: panoptic on July 22, 2009, 05:48 PM
@Islame (assuming you're not trolling...), I already quoted the BNP's manifesto from 2005.

Further: "The BNP is wholly opposed to any form of racial integration between British and non-European peoples. It is therefore committed to stemming and reversing the tide of non-white immigration and to restoring the overwhelmingly white make-up of the British population that existed prior to 1948." (BNP consitution, section 1:2b)

But I'm sure they've had a change of heart...

Well, that's ok, then, isn't it? ... but, nonetheless, what do you think they think they mean by 'British'?? You only need to read their own propaganda (available on their website) to understand this.

Here is Mathew Collins (former member) exposing the BNP's plan for apartheid...:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4206117916677358363

...*that* is what they mean by 'encouraging' non-whites to leave the country.

On paper they are currently anti-immigration - that stance alone cannot prevent them from being shown on YouTube. If some of their members are fascist, but are not openly advocating white supremacy, then YouTube cannot ban them simply on somethings they have said in the past.

Like I said earlier, I agree Nick Griffin is prob a white supremacist. However if he and the party claim to have changed, along with their manifesto, then how can we start banning their youtube videos?

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Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
Reply #103 - July 22, 2009, 06:31 PM

We cant start baning them, but just because they change the words in their manifesto does not mean that they are suddenly different people or a different arty.

Nick Griffin is still Nick Griffin. What he says today is not an excuse for what he said in his previous manifestos.

I have been critisised in a couple of places for pretending to be someone I am not, but all I said regarding race was that 'I am a Black Englishman' after disscussing that article.

I am sorry that my skin iis not actually black, it is just a bit lighter and brown, so if I said I am a Brown Englishman, what would have changed? Just different racial insults most likely.
People also assume this user to have been preteding, but how does anyone pretend and post like that? Why would he pretend and have an account promoting the BNP with a BNP background and several videos and spend so much time defending them if he was a '12 year old faker'?

These are some of the general replies I get from a few people on other forums, but most seem to be supportive of my effort so far.

Quote from: IsLame on July 22, 2009, 06:23 PM
On paper they are currently anti-immigration

And Anti British.

We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

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Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
Reply #104 - July 22, 2009, 06:34 PM

Quote from: IsLame on July 22, 2009, 06:23 PM
On paper they are currently anti-immigration - that stance alone cannot prevent them from being shown on YouTube. If some of their members are fascist, but are not openly advocating white supremacy, then YouTube cannot ban them simply on somethings they have said in the past.

Like I said earlier, I agree Nick Griffin is prob a white supremacist. However if he and the party claim to have changed, along with their manifesto, then how can we start banning their youtube videos?

Sure, I don't think banning them or their propaganda is the solution (I would say that even if they didn't attempt to hide their racism). I just can't allow their PR - that they're not a racist party, 'just anti-immigration' etc. - to be accepted, parroted by others.

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Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
Reply #105 - July 22, 2009, 07:14 PM

It is their PR on youtube that I am opposing, I dont see anything wrong in wanting their self promotion removed from youtube, as many of these people are breaking youtube's rules anyways.

We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

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Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
Reply #106 - July 23, 2009, 01:02 AM

Quote from: ExHindu on July 22, 2009, 07:14 PM
It is their PR on youtube that I am opposing, I dont see anything wrong in wanting their self promotion removed from youtube, as many of these people are breaking youtube's rules anyways.

I don't think that'll do any good. Their propaganda on youtube isn't where it matters. They've gone beyond the stage where suppression even makes sense. Sadly that means it'll take a lot now to stop them growing more.

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Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
Reply #107 - July 23, 2009, 09:20 AM

Quote from: ExHindu on July 22, 2009, 07:14 PM
It is their PR on youtube that I am opposing, I dont see anything wrong in wanting their self promotion removed from youtube, as many of these people are breaking youtube's rules anyways.

They now are accepted and active lawmakers in the European parliament. And you're worried about YouTube?

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Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
Reply #108 - July 23, 2009, 09:22 AM

Hey, gotta get your priorities right. YouTube is serious business.

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Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
Reply #109 - July 23, 2009, 06:28 PM

Quote from: IsLame on July 23, 2009, 09:20 AM
They now are accepted and active lawmakers in the European parliament. And you're worried about YouTube?

Yes because I enjoy youtube and dont want people there who ruin it.

What exactly do you expect me to do about the European Parliament? I cant really do anything about that, but I can complain about youtube at least.

Thousands of people tune in to watch videos on youtube, far less are likely even slightly interested in the European Parliament.

Youtube >>> TV and Media for me.

If I were as interested in TV, then I would be calling ofcom after seeing Nick griffin on TV, as many people currently choose to do. But my prefered source of news and media is the internet as I can look up and read what I want, rather then what the TV wants me to see.

We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

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Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
Reply #110 - July 23, 2009, 06:53 PM

Quote from: ExHindu on July 23, 2009, 06:28 PM
Yes because I enjoy youtube and dont want people there who ruin it.

What exactly do you expect me to do about the European Parliament? I cant really do anything about that, but I can complain about youtube at least.

Not really fair to expect tighter standards of a largely unregulated internet media portal than that of the European parliament!

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Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
Reply #111 - July 23, 2009, 08:10 PM

An internet portal as large as Youtube actually needs tighter standards then the EU does as it is broadcast worldwide and in many more countries, and many more people pay attention to what is on there then what happens in the EU. Or EP for European Parliament oops.

It is more like TV. Content on TV has strict regulations too, with offending things being possible to complain about to the channel. If the BNP placed an advert on TV, and hundreds of people complained, it would be removed.

I dont believe that the BNP should be in the European Parliament either.

Let me know where I can send a complaint email to about this and I will do so. Not that it would change or do anything anyway, but I would complain anywhere that I can.

We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

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Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
Reply #112 - July 25, 2009, 08:51 PM

Article here that is interesting:

http://www.zimbio.com/member/BoatangAndDemetriou/articles/JSwAd3mHp2G/BNP+not+racist+says+Nick+Griffin+but+their

Quote
The BNP are not racist says Nick Griffin - but what about their constitution?

Interesting stuff indeed afoot at Fascist HQ. The Equality and Human Rights Commission wants to bring legal action against the BNP because its constitution "discriminates on the grounds of race and colour".

Many would take this as a given, taking the BNP for the nasty little bunch of fascist, bigoted, racists tossers they are. But Nick Griffin decides to do a politician on the subject and instead of defending his stance, he skews his party line.
ethnic groups who need special protection such as the English in their own country, who are now second class citizens were entitled to discriminate on that basis and not on the grounds of colour.

We are not discriminating on grounds of colour.
Indeed. There is one small flaw in this argument however, apart from being a party of the brotherhood of the British Isles that appears to be only really concerned with the English in this instance. The BNP constitution - a pdf of which can be read on their site here or a blog has a version here - defines it's membership within Section 2 part 1 as:
Membership of the BNP is strictly denned within the terms of, and our members also self define themselves within, the legal ambit of a defined ‘racial group’ this being 'Indigenous Caucasian’
Section 1 part 2(b) clearly states the party

is wholly opposed to any form of racial integration between British and non-European peoples...committed to stemming and reversing the tide of non-white immigration and to restoring...the overwhelmingly white makeup of the British population that existed in Britain prior to 1948.

I challenge anyone to tell me that this is not racist.

More on the link, I snipped it at the challenge because it is interesting there for anyone who claims that the BNP is not racist to prove this by accepting this challenge.

We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

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Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
Reply #113 - July 25, 2009, 09:54 PM

" I don't believe that the BNP should be in the european parliament ..."

Me neither - but people voted for them . That's the trouble with democracy , people just won't do what you want them to ...

But seriously Mr Ex , banning parties is a very serious road to go down and not an action to take lightly . Regardless of how obnoxious the likes of us find Griffin's mob , we have a representative democracy and to ban the BNP would in effect be to disenfranchise the people who voted for them . Should they start threatening , harrassing or physically attacking minorities that would be a different matter , but we can't really prosecute them on the basis of our suspicions about what some of them would like to do .
I don't believe Britain is in the grip of an outbreak of mass racism , I think a group of people have been attracted to them because they have been reasonably astute in exploiting ( and twisting ) a few legitimate grievances and cashing in on a general mood of disillusionment . And I suspect a few others just saw it as a rebuke to the main parties . The way to counter the BNP is to point out the idiocies and inconsistencies in their philosophy and put forward the alternatives .
as for the question of the european parliament , some tv comedian suggested Griffin might spend a bit of time in strasbourg eating croissants and realise foreigners are actually quite nice ...That was a joke , but it wouldn't surprise me if they go the IRA route and decide that being respectable , sitting around in meetings and picking up a big pile of dosh is actually a much easier lifestyle than all that street thuggery ...
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Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
Reply #114 - July 25, 2009, 10:28 PM

Quote from: ExHindu on July 25, 2009, 08:51 PM
BNP is not racist to prove this by accepting this challenge.

I'm with you - judging my Griffin's views I would go one step further and say i believe he's a white supremacist or at least an extreme opportunist. In either case it does not change my opinion on our previous debate.

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Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
Reply #115 - July 25, 2009, 10:53 PM

I realise now that banning parties is not an option, and that I shouldnt use the term 'ban this, ban that' to express my own opinions.

But of course, there are lots of banned things that the people who are offended by my 'ban this' arguments dont really care about or do anything about.

I have already mentioned that I fail at expressing my own opinions, and there is no need for anyone to take what I type 100% seriously and to each letter of the message.

There are lots of Christians who want to 'Ban abortions', and also 'Stem Cell research', is this opinion of theirs any more just then me asking to ban things that I dont agree with?

I dont think so, but I enjoy the arguments that my saying 'ban this ban that ban everything' create, so I dont think I will stop using it

Ban humans from planet Earth, and deport them all to Mars.

We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

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Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
Reply #116 - July 25, 2009, 11:01 PM

Quote from: ExHindu on July 25, 2009, 10:53 PM
I realise now that banning parties is not an option

It still is, just depends on how far they cross the line

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Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
Reply #117 - July 25, 2009, 11:08 PM

Looking into racial laws in the UK:

Quote
A person who uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or displays any written material which is threatening, abusive or insulting, is guilty of an offence if —
(a) he intends thereby to stir up racial hatred, or
(b) having regard to all the circumstances racial hatred is likely to be stirred up thereby.

Under this law, those policies of the BNP are 100% legal as they are not actually hateful, although individual members of the BNP have had action under this law taken against them:

Quote
Nick Griffin (Party Chairman) Received a two-year suspended sentence in April 1998 for inciting racial hatred. His magazine The Rune carried obscene anti-Semitic and Holocaust denial material as well as crude racism.

John Tyndall (founder of the BNP). Six convictions. In 1962 he was jailed for organising a paramilitary organisation. Four years later, he was again sent to prison for possession of a loaded gun. In 1986, he was convicted for incitement to racial hatred under the Public Order Act and sentenced to 12 months imprisonment.

But regardless of this, the party is allowed to carry on.

We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

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Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
Reply #118 - July 25, 2009, 11:21 PM

Oh ffs, make your mind up. I thought you just said in your previous post

Quote
I realise now that banning parties is not an option

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Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
Reply #119 - July 26, 2009, 12:09 AM

Huh? I just explained why they cannot be banned as a party because their policies are not in breach of the Racal laws?

Oh, I never make my mind up about anything, my opinions always shift as I learn more about whatever the topic is.

We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

- Maryam Namaze
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