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 Topic: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?

 (Read 24442 times)
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  • 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
     OP - June 08, 2009, 01:42 AM

    EU elections: BNP's Nick Griffin wins seat in European parliament

    Furious scenes at Manchester town hall when Tory MEP describes BNP as 'aberration' and condemns Griffin's success as sad day for British politics

    Protesters prevent BNP's Nick Griffin from entering Manchester town hall for the EU election results

    Protesters prevent BNP leader Nick Griffin from entering Manchester town hall for the European parliament election results for the North West tonight. Photograph: Manchester Evening News

    Nick Griffin, the leader of the BNP, was today elected to the European parliament.

    The far-right leader won a seat in the North West region. Earlier Andrew Brons, another British National party politician won in the Yorkshire and Humber area. It is the first time the party has had an MEP elected.

    Griffin's victory was only confirmed shortly before 2am after a two-hour cliffhanger over the last of the North West's eight seats saw the Greens fall narrowly behind the BNP and Ukip just failed to pull ahead enough to win a third seat.

    There were furious scenes at the declaration when the highest polling candidate, Sir Robert Atkins, described the BNP as "an aberration" and condemned Griffin's success as sad day for British politics. He was followed by Labour's Arlene McCarthy, who came second in votes cast and told the crowd at Manchester town hall that the BNP was "a party whose members include convicted rapists".

    Both won loud applause ? but also jeers from BNP supporters in the Banqueting Hall who shouted "Get back to the trough!" and "It's democracy ? you're already insulting the voters again."

    When Griffin's turn came to speak, after the other candidates had left the dais, he laid into the "liberal elite which has built a dam, a wall of silence, to stop ordinary people protesting about the removal of their freedom."

    He added: "Well tonight we have broken down that wall in the North West and Yorkshire."

    Brons's victory in Yorkshire saw the highest BNP poll, 9.8%, with Griffin getting 8%. The party polled 8.9% in the North East and 8.6% in both the West and East Midlands, but the share was not enough to win a place in those regions.

    They polled 6.1% in the Eastern region, 5.5% in London, 5.4% in Wales, 4.4% in the South East and 3.9% in the South West.

    Brons took a seat that was previously Labour's second in Yorkshire, as the expenses debacle and internecine warfare in Labour turned traditional supporters away in droves. The Labour vote crashed from 45% to 25% in Barnsley, where the BNP share climbed from 8% to 17%.

    Griffin welcomed the victory as a vindication of the party's claim that "we're here to look after our people because no one else is". He said that feelings were particularly strong in Yorkshire, where former pit communities felt "at the bottom of the heap".

    Pointing to other big rises in the BNP vote to 15% in Rotherham and nearly 12% in Doncaster, Griffin said: "This is ordinary decent people in Yorkshire kicking back against racism, because racism in this country is now directed overwhelmingly against people who look like me."

    Griffin, who had to reach Manchester town hall for his own count in a police van after anti-fascist demonstrators blocked his convoy and hurled eggs, said immigration had become harmful to Britain, particularly with the spread of radical Islam. "Take Bradford ? it isn't immigration that's happening there, it's colonialism," he said.

    His own evening was one long lurch between advances and retreats for the BNP as declarations came in from the North West's 39 counting areas. In a reverse effect to Yorkshire's, support fell in areas where the party had done well in the past. In Burnley, where they won one of their first English county council seats on Thursday, it dropped from 17% to 15%.

    But the slump in Labour's vote was common to the North West and Yorkshire, leaving the battle for the last of the region's eight seats open until the very end. After the Conservatives had won two, and Labour, Ukip and the Liberal Democrats one each, the BNP and the Greens were at level pegging for the final two hours of counting.

    Brons said after the Yorkshire count in Leeds: "The onslaught against us has been more than against any other party in recent times, but somehow we've overcome it. Despite the lies, despite the money, despite the misrepresentation, we've been able to win through."

    A dapper, besuited figure who adopts the low-key approach encouraged by Griffin, Brons retired last year as a politics and government teacher at Harrogate College. He then re-entered active politics for the first time since standing five times for the National Front in the 1970s after a brief spell as its leader, which ended in internal quarrels. He joined the British National Socialist party as a teenager.


    Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/jun/07/european-elections-manchester-liverpool


    Also, read about the first seat that the BNP candidate Andrew Brons won this night (with video):
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/jun/07/european-elections-manchester-liverpool

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
     Reply #1 - June 08, 2009, 02:38 AM

    This is a sad, sad day.  finmad
  • Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
     Reply #2 - June 08, 2009, 09:08 AM

    UK Total MEP Seats  Votes MEPs
    Party % +/- % Total +/-
    CON 28.6 1.2 24 1
    UKIP 17.4 0.5 13 1
    LAB 15.3 -7.0 11 -5
    LD 13.9 -1.1 10 1
    GRN 8.7 2.5 2 0
    BNP 6.5 1.4 2 2
    PC 0.9 -0.1 1 0
    SNP 0 0 0 0
    SSP 0 0 0 0
    OTH 8.6 2.7 0 0
    63 of 69 seats declared.
    Result excludes Northern Ireland. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8088644.stm

    I wonder why Northern Ireland has been exluded from this result?  What I find just as worrying is that had UKIP not existed, then BNP support would have been even higher!

    I think this vote hammers home the message that those that do not belong to the majority ethnic group in the UK, are not welcome here by a sizable portion of the population.

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  • Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
     Reply #3 - June 08, 2009, 10:56 AM

    Nick Griffin has been calling the BNP the "most lied about and demonized party in the history of British Politics". Whereas the Conservatives have promised to show everybody what the BNP believe in, in the hope that it will disgust us. I'm just wondering how much of the media discussion of the BNP was lies, as I expect they lied somewhat, exaggerating things here and there.

    It has been argued that the fact that they have won 2 seats in a democratic process, no matter how vile the party might be, has given the BNP credibility and justification. I can understand how that might be, as the democratic principle favours the majority, not the "best" policies. But Nick Griffin did win only 8% of a 30% turnout in the North West, that means only 2.4% of everyone eligible to vote in the North-West voted for Nick Griffin. But I've noticed that politicians' mode of political currency, if you like, is in seats, not in votes. I remember on the night the President of the Liberals in Europe said that the result from the UK for the Lib Dem party was a good result, even though they actually lost votes (but they got the same number of seats). When he was asked how he could be happy with the result even though they lost votes, he reacted as if he had just realized.

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
     Reply #4 - June 08, 2009, 11:07 AM

    I think this vote hammers home the message that those that do not belong to the majority ethnic group in the UK, are not welcome here by a sizable portion of the population.

    They took our joooooobs!!
  • Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
     Reply #5 - June 08, 2009, 11:12 AM

    Protest vote

    nothing more nothing less.

    Every BNP supporter/member has a strong opinion and thus will vote, the rest of the country couldnt give a damn, they averaged 6% of a 34% turnout, which is about 2%, which is what they always had.

    Its because John and Jenny Everyman couldn't be bothered to get off the sofa and vote, not because people care.

    What is apparant though is that labour is through, the economic crises was a factor but the biggest nail in the coffin is the expenses scandal, people like Jacqui Smith also give labour a bad name.

    Also, look at the BNP's council results a few days earlier, they gained 3 seats! Out of one thousand something council seats they got 3!

    WoooooooooO! THE BNP IS TAKING OVER WITH THEIR 3 COUNCIL SEATS AND THEIR 2 EU "PARLIAMENT" SEATS. LETS RUN!

    Fuckwitz.

    I hear what you're saying. You're spinning my head around.
  • Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
     Reply #6 - June 08, 2009, 11:15 AM

    Protest vote

    nothing more nothing less.

    Every BNP supporter/member has a strong opinion and thus will vote, the rest of the country couldnt give a damn, they averaged 6% of a 34% turnout, which is about 2%, which is what they always had.

    Its because John and Jenny Everyman couldn't be bothered to get off the sofa and vote, not because people care.

    What is apparant though is that labour is through, the economic crises was a factor but the biggest nail in the coffin is the expenses scandal, people like Jacqui Smith also give labour a bad name.

    Also, look at the BNP's council results a few days earlier, they gained 3 seats! Out of one thousand something council seats they got 3!

    WoooooooooO! THE BNP IS TAKING OVER WITH THEIR 3 COUNCIL SEATS AND THEIR 2 EU "PARLIAMENT" SEATS. LETS RUN!

    Fuckwitz.


     Cheesy  awesome.  Afro

    I wouldn't worry, it's a minor reaction compared to how bad it could really get.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
     Reply #7 - June 08, 2009, 11:42 AM

    Every BNP supporter/member has a strong opinion and thus will vote, the rest of the country couldnt give a damn, they averaged 6% of a 34% turnout, which is about 2%, which is what they always had.

    It has been argued that the fact that they have won 2 seats in a democratic process, no matter how vile the party might be, has given the BNP credibility and justification. I can understand how that might be, as the democratic principle favours the majority, not the "best" policies. But Nick Griffin did win only 8% of a 30% turnout in the North West, that means only 2.4% of everyone eligible to vote in the North-West voted for Nick Griffin.


    Are you both sure about this as I read it to mean 8% of the total vote, not 8% of the turnout.  

    Its because John and Jenny Everyman couldn't be bothered to get off the sofa and vote, not because people care.

    What is apparant though is that labour is through, the economic crises was a factor but the biggest nail in the coffin is the expenses scandal, people like Jacqui Smith also give labour a bad name.

    Also, look at the BNP's council results a few days earlier, they gained 3 seats! Out of one thousand something council seats they got 3!

    WoooooooooO! THE BNP IS TAKING OVER WITH THEIR 3 COUNCIL SEATS AND THEIR 2 EU "PARLIAMENT" SEATS. LETS RUN!

    Fuckwitz.

    I agree that it does not mean about to have UK enthnically cleansed.  However it does show that BNP are now a legitimate party with a voting power base.  It means other parties may bring their ethnically related agenda's to the fore, given that they realise they are vote catching policies.  It means Nick Griffin gets to sit at the EU parliament, caste a vote on our issues, and get paid 75 thousand pounds, with 250 thousand pounds worth of expenses for the priviledge.

    P.S  John Muslim - would you like to introduce yourself?

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  • Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
     Reply #8 - June 08, 2009, 11:52 AM

    Are you both sure about this as I read it to mean 8% of the total vote, not 8% of the turnout.  


    Turnout was only about 30% in North West and 40% overall in the UK.

    Nick Griffin won 8% of the vote, but only 30% voted, so that translates out to be about 2% of everyone who was eligible to vote.

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
     Reply #9 - June 08, 2009, 12:08 PM

    Turnout was only about 30% in North West and 40% overall in the UK.

    Nick Griffin won 8% of the vote, but only 30% voted, so that translates out to be about 2% of everyone who was eligible to vote.

    I have just checked.  Its % share of the vote (see http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/elections/article6452347.ece) not % of those who voted.  So Nick Griffin got 8% share of the vote, so it still translates to 8% of everyone who voted.

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    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
     Reply #10 - June 08, 2009, 04:09 PM

    "THE far-right British National Party is set for a ?4MILLION boost after winning its first two seats in the European Parliament.  The cash-strapped party will trouser the massive funding bonanza thanks to a lucrative system of pay and allowances for its MEPs. "

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2469711/BNP-wins-two-seats-in-Europe-for-first-time.html

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  • Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
     Reply #11 - June 08, 2009, 04:19 PM

    Proportional representation is stupid.

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
     Reply #12 - June 08, 2009, 05:23 PM

    Well UKIP came second, thats good news.
  • Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
     Reply #13 - June 08, 2009, 05:45 PM

    Quote from: IsLame
    I wonder why Northern Ireland has been exluded from this result? 


    Northern Ireland always counts it votes a day later than the rest of the UK.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
     Reply #14 - June 08, 2009, 06:52 PM

    I have just checked.  Its % share of the vote (see http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/elections/article6452347.ece) not % of those who voted.  So Nick Griffin got 8% share of the vote, so it still translates to 8% of everyone who voted.


    Yeah. And it's 2% of everyone who was eligible to vote.

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
     Reply #15 - June 08, 2009, 06:54 PM

    Proportional representation is stupid.


    What, because it enabled the BNP to get a seat?

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
     Reply #16 - June 08, 2009, 09:03 PM

    Are you both sure about this as I read it to mean 8% of the total vote, not 8% of the turnout.  
    I agree that it does not mean about to have UK enthnically cleansed.  However it does show that BNP are now a legitimate party with a voting power base.  It means other parties may bring their ethnically related agenda's to the fore, given that they realise they are vote catching policies.  It means Nick Griffin gets to sit at the EU parliament, caste a vote on our issues, and get paid 75 thousand pounds, with 250 thousand pounds worth of expenses for the priviledge.

    P.S  John Muslim - would you like to introduce yourself?


    Listen carefully

    Have you ever met a Labour or Tory supporter who cares so deeply about his party? No

    Just about every BNP member or supporter voted, because they are a fringe party and need a foot in the door, thus, if the turnout was only 40% for the uk and 8% of those are BNP nutjobs then it means practically only 2-3% of the populace supports the BNP

    Also, look at the council results, if 3 out of 1500 seats went to the BNP, even though the bnp stood in just about every region this year and contested about 300 seats, then 3 out of 300 is another poor indicator

    People like you and OP just want some fun/reason to panic. Nothing else really.

    By the way, the BNP's policy isn't ethnic cleansing, i am not a fan, but their policy is voluntary repatriation/deportation of failed asylum seekers/criminal immigrants.

    Dont act like 2% of the populace voted for hitler.

    Anyway, I am john, I am not a muslim or an ex muslim. Thats all you need to know. The name is a spoof of the mispronounciation of my real name: "John Mostlen", which people often pronounce dangerously close to John Muslim.

    I hear what you're saying. You're spinning my head around.
  • Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
     Reply #17 - June 08, 2009, 09:05 PM

    Proportional representation is stupid.


    You mean first past the post is stupid, PR is a common sense democratic approach. If 10% want party X and 50% want party Y it means Y is supported by 50%.

    If three villages with 1000 people each want Y and three cities with a million people want X then they are equal under first past the post (well, not exactly but you get the drift).


    I hear what you're saying. You're spinning my head around.
  • Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
     Reply #18 - June 08, 2009, 11:25 PM


    People like you and OP just want some fun/reason to panic. Nothing else really.


     Huh?

    Quote
    By the way, the BNP's policy isn't ethnic cleansing, i am not a fan, but their policy is voluntary repatriation/deportation of failed asylum seekers/criminal immigrants.


    We already have voluntary repatriation; it's called moving country; anybody is allowed to do it. On the other extreme, who said that the BNP's policy is ethnic cleansing? No, the BNP are currently advocating financially encouraged repatriation which is horrifically racist as it is (imagine if couples were given bursaries for marrying someone of the same race) but I am suspicious that is simply PR talk and that if they could they would enforce compulsory repatriation. Also, forgive me if I am mistaken but it looks as if you believe they only believe in repatriation for asylum seekers and criminal immigrants. No, they advocate compulsory repatriation for asylum seekers and criminal immigrants, and financially encouraged repatriation for all legal immigrants.

    These policies are alarming, but the support for the BNP is growing, and that is what makes this a particularly worrying european election result; a portion of the British people have granted the BNP democratic justification.

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
     Reply #19 - June 09, 2009, 12:45 AM

     I think the fact that the BNP were unable to increase the number of ACTUAL votes they attracted , at a time of economic crisis and when there is universal disillusionment , if not loathing , with all the main parties shows just how little support they actually have in this country
  • Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
     Reply #20 - June 09, 2009, 01:27 AM

    Quote
    These policies are alarming, but the support for the BNP is growing,


    It isn't actually.  The BNP got less votes this time than they did in 2004.  The only reason it translated into seats this time is that the Labour vote collapsed and the Tories aren't impressing people enough to pick up the protest votes.  Hence so many voters stayed home that even a smaller vote was enough for the fringe parties to gain a few seats.

    Nick Griffin should enjoy his one and only term as an MEP because its likely to be the pinnacle of his political career.  Once the other parties get their act together the BNP won't have enough supporters to retain their seats.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
     Reply #21 - June 09, 2009, 02:26 AM

    The BNP got less votes


    Fewer votes

    fuck you
  • Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
     Reply #22 - June 09, 2009, 08:28 AM

    Listen carefully

    Have you ever met a Labour or Tory supporter who cares so deeply about his party? No

    Just about every BNP member or supporter voted, because they are a fringe party and need a foot in the door, thus, if the turnout was only 40% for the uk and 8% of those are BNP nutjobs then it means practically only 2-3% of the populace supports the BNP

    Not true.  If 8% of those who voted are with BNP, that does not mean everyone who stayed at home were not BNP supporters.  Those that did not vote were not Labour or Tory, and were just ambilvalent about politics?  It is normally assumed in surveys such as these that the rest of the population would have had a similar view.  Have you ever heard of sampling?  The percentages in sampling tend to be far lower unlike the 40% turnout we had here.
    Quote
    Also, look at the council results, if 3 out of 1500 seats went to the BNP, even though the bnp stood in just about every region this year and contested about 300 seats, then 3 out of 300 is another poor indicator

    People like you and OP just want some fun/reason to panic. Nothing else really.

    By the way, the BNP's policy isn't ethnic cleansing, i am not a fan, but their policy is voluntary repatriation/deportation of failed asylum seekers/criminal immigrants.

    Dont act like 2% of the populace voted for hitler.


    Their policy is volountary repatriation of all ethnic minorities, including 2nd/3rd generation ones.  Before re-writing he BNP policies, I suggest you consult with Nick Griffin first.


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  • Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
     Reply #23 - June 10, 2009, 10:13 AM

    It isn't actually.  The BNP got less votes this time than they did in 2004.  The only reason it translated into seats this time is that the Labour vote collapsed and the Tories aren't impressing people enough to pick up the protest votes.  Hence so many voters stayed home that even a smaller vote was enough for the fringe parties to gain a few seats.

    Nick Griffin should enjoy his one and only term as an MEP because its likely to be the pinnacle of his political career.  Once the other parties get their act together the BNP won't have enough supporters to retain their seats.



    If I remember correctly that was only true in the North West where Nick Griffin stood, where there was a very low turnout of 30%. In other areas, the BNP gained votes.

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
     Reply #24 - June 10, 2009, 10:19 AM


    Their policy is volountary repatriation of all ethnic minorities, including 2nd/3rd generation ones.  Before re-writing he BNP policies, I suggest you consult with Nick Griffin first.




    I doubt they will accept non-whites from any generation.

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
     Reply #25 - June 10, 2009, 11:32 AM

    Not true.  If 8% of those who voted are with BNP, that does not mean everyone who stayed at home were not BNP supporters.  Those that did not vote were not Labour or Tory, and were just ambilvalent about politics?  It is normally assumed in surveys such as these that the rest of the population would have had a similar view.  Have you ever heard of sampling?  The percentages in sampling tend to be far lower unlike the 40% turnout we had here.
    Their policy is volountary repatriation of all ethnic minorities, including 2nd/3rd generation ones.  Before re-writing he BNP policies, I suggest you consult with Nick Griffin first.




    I think by calling voluntary repatriation ethnic cleansing you are shitting on the attrocities of the 20th century like the holocaust, kosovo/serbia, armenian genocide, saddams massacres etc. These were ethnic cleansing. Voluntary repatriation IS NOT ethnic cleansing, Im not say its good, but Japan recently adopted this policy whereby they pay some immigrants (even second and third gen) to go home

    Not the same as ethnic cleansing

    Anyway, I dont like this policy either, but as I said, dont compare BNP to Hitler and voluntary repatriation (which you have a choice in) to ethnic cleansing.

    I hear what you're saying. You're spinning my head around.
  • Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
     Reply #26 - June 10, 2009, 11:34 AM

    I think by calling voluntary repatriation ethnic cleansing you are shitting on the attrocities of the 20th century like the holocaust, kosovo/serbia, armenian genocide, saddams massacres etc. These were ethnic cleansing. Voluntary repatriation IS NOT ethnic cleansing, Im not say its good, but Japan recently adopted this policy whereby they pay some immigrants (even second and third gen) to go home

    Not the same as ethnic cleansing

    Anyway, I dont like this policy either, but as I said, dont compare BNP to Hitler and voluntary repatriation (which you have a choice in) to ethnic cleansing.

    Genocide and ethnic cleansing are two different things.
  • Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
     Reply #27 - June 10, 2009, 12:03 PM

    Genocide and ethnic cleansing are two different things.


    Right but they are often linked. Armenian genocide was also ethnic cleansing because it was aimed at Armenian Christians.

    I hear what you're saying. You're spinning my head around.
  • Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
     Reply #28 - June 11, 2009, 01:26 AM

    "Ethnic cleansing is a euphemism referring to the persecution through imprisonment, expulsion, or killing of members of an ethnic minority by a local majority to achieve ethnic homogeneity in majority-controlled territory."

    Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_Cleansing

    It could well be said then that the BNP advocates ethnic cleansing. Hadn't thought of that before...

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: 2 BNP MEPs - What does this mean for the future?
     Reply #29 - June 11, 2009, 01:38 AM

    Has anybody seen the egg-pelting video? It's simply genius!  dance

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8091605.stm

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
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