Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


Qur'anic studies today
Today at 09:07 PM

Blasphemy Case of Junaid...
Today at 06:32 PM

Goodbye World: We’ve Pass...
Today at 04:45 PM

الحبيب من يشبه اكثر؟؟؟
Today at 02:30 PM

What music are you listen...
Today at 02:13 PM

New PM incoming
by zeca
Yesterday at 06:37 PM

'Islamic State' a.k.a. IS...
Yesterday at 01:50 PM

Attack on Jewish store in...
December 12, 2019, 11:57 PM

Random Islamic History Po...
by zeca
December 12, 2019, 10:52 PM

NayaPakistan...New Pakist...
December 12, 2019, 09:23 PM

Protests in Iraq
by zeca
December 11, 2019, 07:40 PM

Are Hijabs really a choic...
December 11, 2019, 02:35 PM

Theme Changer

 Topic: Hello from merrygoround

 (Read 2699 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Hello from merrygoround
     OP - May 21, 2009, 11:37 AM

    Hello all ? I have been lurking on this forum for months. I found your site via an article about Maryam Namazie, and from there on to the CEMB and Hassan?s videos which gave me a real sense of relief. Here was someone ? like many of you here it seems ? who had had the courage to back out of the umma with all the hardships that involves but without taking on a violently islamaphobic stance. So thanks Hassan and all the others who have created this unhateful space for dialogue.
     
    I?m here because Islam has been part of my daily life for many years now as my partner is a believing Muslim, though I doubt that the hardliners would agree, as it?s a very personal form of practice that does not include praying or mosque-going, fasting is on and off. When we first met he was an ex-Muslim, much to the dismay of his family, but as time has passed he has gone back to believing in his own idiosyncratic way, probably deep down because he is so disillusioned with what he found in Europe. He arrived here expecting to find a lot of the ideals he cherishes put into practice ? but little by little he has been disappointed.  For the most part his private beliefs are no obstacle for us.  I was brought up in a very agnostic Protestant setting and opted out of Sunday school when I was nine as the whole religion thing just didn?t seem to wash, went through a Buddhist period in my teens then married a Jewish guy who converted to Catholicism just before our marriage. We later divorced but not because of religion. All through these multifaith experiences I suppose I have remained a kind of ?spiritual? atheist, though don?t really know what that means at heart. What is most important to me is that the people dear to me have values that seem to transcend all these religions ? at the core they are people who are seeking for a better world with less pain and suffering and inequality. And they don?t try to impose their beliefs on others!!

    What pushed me to join this forum is the worry that Islam nonetheless seems to support some attitudes I cannot reconcile with.  Evolution, women, apostates, homosexuality -  yes, these are classic subjects on which other religions are also intolerant, but Islam seems way behind in moving forward and I feel the brunt of this. I often conclude that culture is largely responsible for a lot of these attitudes, but what irks me is that Islam seems to reinforce them. In all the years I have been mixing with Muslims ? I must say I have met many tolerant ones who manage to get over the fact that I and my partner are not married and that I haven?t converted  (although I may be a thorn in the side of some) and attempts to convince me to move over onto right path are now becoming fewer and far between. I have also met loads of so-called Muslims who in private are either non-believers, agnostics or who just couldn?t care less ? the main thing seems to be that they want to avoid breaking with their family, causing pain, being rejected by their community. What I do appreciate here on the forum is your courage and, as I said at the start, the lack of hatred (unlike some other forums I?ve visited). So looking forward to sharing thoughts and sense of humour with you although unfortunately I don?t have a lot of free time at present.

    By the way love you Smileys - maybe that's basically why I joined   singing in the rain
  • Re: Hello from merrygoround
     Reply #1 - May 21, 2009, 11:48 AM

    Hi aggur. The smileys are part of our secret plan for world domination.
    Watch_the_parrots.  parrot parrot parrot parrot

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Hello from merrygoround
     Reply #2 - May 21, 2009, 11:54 AM

    Hallowed are the parrots! parrot parrot parrot

    Welcome to the forum btw Tongue
    Quote
    What pushed me to join this forum is the worry that Islam nonetheless seems to support some attitudes I cannot reconcile with.  Evolution, women, apostates, homosexuality -  yes, these are classic subjects on which other religions are also intolerant, but Islam seems way behind in moving forward and I feel the brunt of this. I often conclude that culture is largely responsible for a lot of these attitudes, but what irks me is that Islam seems to reinforce them

    I have noticed this too. Islam has not gone through a reformation so that may be why. Also muslims tend to be more literal in their approach to Islam.
  • Re: Hello from merrygoround
     Reply #3 - May 21, 2009, 12:00 PM

    Thanks osmanthus for the welcome and the parrot demonstration - seems like a great hypnotic tactic!!
  • Re: Hello from merrygoround
     Reply #4 - May 21, 2009, 12:00 PM

    Oh yeah welcome to the forum and stuff. Wot she sed.   grin12

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Hello from merrygoround
     Reply #5 - May 21, 2009, 12:07 PM

    A quick hello

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hello from merrygoround
     Reply #6 - May 21, 2009, 12:13 PM

    Hallowed are the parrots! parrot parrot parrot

    I have noticed this too. Islam has not gone through a reformation so that may be why. Also muslims tend to be more literal in their approach to Islam.



    Hello PeruvianSkies - thanks - I agree about the lack of reformation but thankfully things do seem to be moving a little - what seems to be holding things up is not so much the actual scirptures but the many many layers of stuff that the Doctors of Law and company have added over the ages - which are often presented as being as important as the Holy Book itself. Very often in discussions I have with Muslims - they don't actually seem to know what part of their belief system comes from the quran, what part from the hadith, from the shariah etc. - it does confuse things.
  • Re: Hello from merrygoround
     Reply #7 - May 21, 2009, 12:16 PM

    Welcome Aggur.   Smiley  I don't know why you're all hoping for a Reformation.  When Christianity went through a reformation it created fundamentalism - Islam's equivalent to the reformation happened in 1979 when Khomeini took over Iran. 

    What Islam needs is an Enlightenment, not a Reformation.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Hello from merrygoround
     Reply #8 - May 21, 2009, 12:19 PM

    I think they meant small r reformation, not a repeat of the big r one. Reform, IOW.  Tongue

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Hello from merrygoround
     Reply #9 - May 21, 2009, 12:19 PM

    Hallowed are the parrots! parrot parrot parrot

    I have noticed this too. Islam has not gone through a reformation so that may be why. Also muslims tend to be more literal in their approach to Islam.



    Hello PeruvianSkies - thanks - I agree about the lack of reformation but thankfully things do seem to be moving a little - what seems to be holding things up is not so much the actual scirptures but the many many layers of stuff that the Doctors of Law and company have added over the ages - which are often presented as being as important as the Holy Book itself. Very often in discussions I have with Muslims - they don't actually seem to know what part of their belief system comes from the quran, what part from the hadith, from the shariah etc. - it does confuse things.

    I've noticed that too about the average muslim. They never know about the horrific things in Islam and if you show it to them then will say it is unauthentic or you have a bad translation of the Quran, or that you have to read it in Arabic Roll Eyes

    I can see a reformation happening some day. I can see that an increasing number of muslims are getting tired of corrupt sheikhs and imams. The only question is how long will this reformation take to happen? When it comes to Islam I always notice that whenever it takes a step forward it seems to take two steps back in return.

    I'll also be willing to bet that a reformation will just split up Islam even more and create more sects.
  • Re: Hello from merrygoround
     Reply #10 - May 21, 2009, 12:21 PM

    I think they meant small r reformation, not a repeat of the big r one. Reform, IOW.  Tongue


    That's what they meant but they're calling it the wrong word.   Tongue

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Hello from merrygoround
     Reply #11 - May 21, 2009, 12:23 PM

    Welcome Aggur.   Smiley  I don't know why you're all hoping for a Reformation.  When Christianity went through a reformation it created fundamentalism - Islam's equivalent to the reformation happened in 1979 when Khomeini took over Iran. 

    What Islam needs is an Enlightenment, not a Reformation.

    Because I'm using the wrong word Tongue Enlightenment then.
  • Re: Hello from merrygoround
     Reply #12 - May 21, 2009, 12:28 PM

    Welcome Aggur.   Smiley  I don't know why you're all hoping for a Reformation.  When Christianity went through a reformation it created fundamentalism - Islam's equivalent to the reformation happened in 1979 when Khomeini took over Iran. 

    What Islam needs is an Enlightenment, not a Reformation.

    Hi Cheetah - absolutely - that would be the ideal - but in Christianity the Reformation did precede the Enlightenment in Europe so maybe reformation is just a first step. The Protestant reformation was a pretty harsh fundamentalist movement when it first appeared - but at least it was a challenge to the all powerful Catholic dogma of the time and helped to bring about enlightenment. The main thing as far as I can see is to develop contestatory movements able to break the stranglehold of monolithic dogma based on fear.

  • Re: Hello from merrygoround
     Reply #13 - May 21, 2009, 12:32 PM

    You don't need that step in Islam - there's no equivalent to the Pope or the Catholic Church, there's already different sects shia, sunni, etc.   

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Hello from merrygoround
     Reply #14 - May 21, 2009, 12:44 PM

    You don't need that step in Islam - there's no equivalent to the Pope or the Catholic Church, there's already different sects shia, sunni, etc.   



    Yes but Christianity was not just the Catholics and the Pope at the time of the Reformation - there was also the Orthodox Church under another pope as well as other various sects in the East and Africa. I suppose the Catholic church at the time counted most Christians - like the Sunni are the majority today.
    I suppose in reformation and enlightenment - what I'm really mean is a movement where there is critical thought and putting things into question.
  • Re: Hello from merrygoround
     Reply #15 - May 21, 2009, 12:47 PM

    You don't need that step in Islam - there's no equivalent to the Pope or the Catholic Church, there's already different sects shia, sunni, etc.    



    Yes but Christianity was not just the Catholics and the Pope at the time of the Reformation - there was also the Orthodox Church under another pope as well as other various sects in the East and Africa. I suppose the Catholic church at the time counted most Christians - like the Sunni are the majority today.
    I suppose in reformation and enlightenment - what I'm really mean is a movement where there is critical thought and putting things into question.


    Their mutually exclusive - its called agnosticism.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hello from merrygoround
     Reply #16 - May 21, 2009, 12:56 PM

    Quote
    I'm really mean is a movement where there is critical thought and putting things into question.


    I know that's what you mean - that's the Enlightenment.  The reformation did fuck all that would be helpful to Islam, it was a fundie movement.  Islam has already had its reformation in Sayyid Qutb and Ayatollah Khomeini - we don't need any more of that ilk.   piggy

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Hello from merrygoround
     Reply #17 - May 21, 2009, 01:01 PM

     signwelcome aggur!

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Hello from merrygoround
     Reply #18 - May 21, 2009, 01:22 PM

    Hello Rashna - thanks for the welcome

    Cheetah - Reformation as I see it needs to come for and from those who are - whatever happens - going to remain believers because they need or want to believe in a God - it would mean reforming some elements of a faith so that it is more compatible with principles of equity and human rights. There have been horrific reformations by the fundies - but that doesn't mean that other kinds can't emerge. Englightenment is something else and can give rise to a deeper change in people and may lead to not believing at all in a God. Whatever - things certainly need to move.
    Maybe releasing a flock of Osmanthus's secret weapons would help
     parrot parrot parrot parrot parrot
  • Re: Hello from merrygoround
     Reply #19 - May 21, 2009, 01:26 PM

    PeruvianSkies has just done it !!!!!

    Let's wait and see
  • Re: Hello from merrygoround
     Reply #20 - May 24, 2009, 12:36 AM

    Welcome Aggur Smiley
  • Re: Hello from merrygoround
     Reply #21 - May 26, 2009, 10:36 AM

    PeruvianSkies has just done it !!!!!

    Let's wait and see

    lol I never saw your post Tongue I just posted that out of boredom.
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »