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 Topic: Horried IslamQA Fatwa!Stay with Abusive Father & No Marriage without Wali

 (Read 5625 times)
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  • Horried IslamQA Fatwa!Stay with Abusive Father & No Marriage without Wali
     OP - May 21, 2009, 09:26 AM

    I found this fatwa in Islam QA, a site which regularly issues anachronistic, sexist & plain dumb fatwas but this is a new low even by their standards:

    Here's the fatwa! Angry

    Quote from: IslamQA fatwa
    She wants to run away from her father who hits her

    I would be grateful if u answer my problem.my 16 year old female cousin lives currently in the us with her parents & older brother.as due to the country's law no one can hurt her,but her family is planning to go to their homeland for a visit & she is sure that her father will hit her & her mother,as he did before,or marry her of without her consent.her father's side of the family will do nothing & her brother joins in hitting her.i or my family can do nothing to stop this.she is so sure that they will abuse her that she plans to runaway prior to their departure,live with a female friend & never return.i told her that this is against our relegion but she wiling to take the risk of living on the street than being alone with her father.if i tell my family she will never trust me.only u can tell me what a muslim girl is to do.please reply before its to late.


    Praise be to Allaah.  

    It is not permissible for your cousin to run away from her family and live with another family, because that involves disobeying her parents and upsetting them and damaging their reputation. Moreover her living with a strange family will pose a great danger to her and her religious commitment.

    No matter how badly she is treated by her family, that cannot compare with what she is planning to do. No woman follows this course but she goes astray and loses her religious commitment. That is the punishment for disobeying her parents that comes in this world, before the Hereafter. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Two things for which the punishment is hastened in this world: injustice and disobedience to parents." Narrated by al-Haakim and classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami?, no. 2810.
     
    She may come to regret it at the time when regret will be to no avail, when her father or mother dies angry with her.

    So she must go back to her family and honour her father and treat him kindly. If he causes some annoyance let her bear it with patience and seek reward. She should understand that the fire of this world is not like the Fire of the Hereafter, and that no matter what hardships she endures in this world, if she earns the pleasure of Allaah and enters Paradise, she will indeed have succeeded, and no matter what comforts of this life she enjoys, if she then incurs the wrath of Allaah and enters His Fire, she will indeed be doomed.

    She should regard the harm that her family does her as being like a sickness that cannot be warded off. She does not know, perhaps she may suffer diseases and pains that are many times worse than that harm, as a punishment for her disobedience and her living with someone other than her family.

    She should strive to make duaa and turn to Allaah, asking Him to guide her parents and her brother, and to help her to find a righteous husband.

    If her parents insist on marrying her to someone who is not suitable for her, she may refer the matter to the sharee?ah court; the same applies if her father refuses to marry her to a compatible man who comes to propose marriage to her.

    She does not have the right to arrange her own marriage without the permission of her wali (guardian). If she does that her marriage is invalid because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "There is no marriage except with a wali." Narrated by Abu Dawood, 2085; al-Tirmidhi, 1101; Ibn Maajah, 1881, from the hadeeth of Abu Moosa al-Ashari; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi.

    And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Any woman who gets married without the permission of her wali, her marriage is invalid, her marriage is invalid, her marriage is invalid. If the marriage has been consummated, the mahr is hers because she has allowed the man to be intimate with her. If there is a dispute, then the ruler is the wali of the one who has no wali." Narrated by Ahmad, 24417; Abu Dawood, 2083; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami?, no. 2709.

    The point is that you should strive to advise your cousin of what we have said here. If she insists on running away from her family, you have to tell them about that, so as to prevent this great evil from happening, even if that leads to her not trusting you in the future. Denouncing evil is obligatory upon the one who is able to do it, and what you do will be good for her.

    Her father should also be advised and reminded of Allaah, and  warned against mistreating his children unlawfully. This is the kind of wrongdoing which will be darkness on the Day of Resurrection.


    And Allaah knows best.

    Islam Q&A


    So the poor 16 year old girl has to go to their home country with her father, even though he has beaten both of them before & she suspects that he'll marry her off without her permission! banghead

    Further, if her parents want to marry her off to someone unsuitable, she has to refer the matter to a Shariah Court-we all know how Shariah courts are in Saudi, Pak, Afghanistan, Somalia & so on, what kind of justice will those provide?  furious

    To be fair to them, they do at least warn the father against mistreating his kids, but then they insist that this girl absolutely can't get married without her wali's permission, so she's stuck with her abusive Daddy & can't even escape without his permission! Flaming mad

    What a horried site this is! Baseball bat

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Horried IslamQA Fatwa!Stay with Abusive Father & No Marriage without Wali
     Reply #1 - May 21, 2009, 09:35 AM

    I'm going to show this to my sister.  finmad

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Horried IslamQA Fatwa!Stay with Abusive Father & No Marriage without Wali
     Reply #2 - May 21, 2009, 09:36 AM

    I love their reasons for that fatwa-
    Quote
    because that involves disobeying her parents and upsetting them and damaging their reputation. Moreover her living with a strange family will pose a great danger to her and her religious commitment.


    I cant believe they place all that shite above her wellbeing, also are they so blind that they do not realise her situation may make her lose her faith anyway?!  finmad finmad finmad finmad
  • Re: Horried IslamQA Fatwa!Stay with Abusive Father & No Marriage without Wali
     Reply #3 - May 21, 2009, 09:52 AM

    It's almost verbatim the kind of advice that has been given to my sister, and at various times to me.

    My parents tell me that it doesn't matter what they do to me, I will be damned by god if I stop talking to them for it or turn my back on them, you HAVE to accept that your parents are free to do with you as they please.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Horried IslamQA Fatwa!Stay with Abusive Father & No Marriage without Wali
     Reply #4 - May 21, 2009, 09:53 AM

    Quote from: IslamQA fatwa
    She should regard the harm that her family does her as being like a sickness that cannot be warded off.


    ...But this "disease" can be warded off! I must be missing the point of that comparison...  Huh?

    This is indeed a very saddening article, but is it really a horrible fatwa by IslamQA's own standards? I've read many equally appaling fatwas on that site...

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Horried IslamQA Fatwa!Stay with Abusive Father & No Marriage without Wali
     Reply #5 - May 21, 2009, 10:00 AM

    It's almost verbatim the kind of advice that has been given to my sister, and at various times to me.

    My parents tell me that it doesn't matter what they do to me, I will be damned by god if I stop talking to them for it or turn my back on them, you HAVE to accept that your parents are free to do with you as they please.


    I remember going through a phase when I was a Muslim where whenever I got talking to an Imaam or scholar in a mosque, I would ask them what rights a child has over their parents. They didn't have an answer that was based on the Qur'an or Hadeeth, which is what I was looking for. It was like they never heard of such a thing in their lives before! A child that has rights over their parents?!?!?! What a thing to say! lol... disgusting.

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Horried IslamQA Fatwa!Stay with Abusive Father & No Marriage without Wali
     Reply #6 - May 21, 2009, 10:10 AM

    Those guys at QA seem to like their leet speak-



    Tongue
  • Re: Horried IslamQA Fatwa!Stay with Abusive Father & No Marriage without Wali
     Reply #7 - May 21, 2009, 10:13 AM

    It's almost verbatim the kind of advice that has been given to my sister, and at various times to me.

    My parents tell me that it doesn't matter what they do to me, I will be damned by god if I stop talking to them for it or turn my back on them, you HAVE to accept that your parents are free to do with you as they please.


    I remember going through a phase when I was a Muslim where whenever I got talking to an Imaam or scholar in a mosque, I would ask them what rights a child has over their parents. They didn't have an answer that was based on the Qur'an or Hadeeth, which is what I was looking for. It was like they never heard of such a thing in their lives before! A child that has rights over their parents?!?!?! What a thing to say! lol... disgusting.

    If the parents are acting usIslamic towards the child then I'm sure the child would be afforded the rights to rebel, afterall religion comes above anything Wink
  • Re: Horried IslamQA Fatwa!Stay with Abusive Father & No Marriage without Wali
     Reply #8 - May 21, 2009, 10:18 AM

    It's almost verbatim the kind of advice that has been given to my sister, and at various times to me.

    My parents tell me that it doesn't matter what they do to me, I will be damned by god if I stop talking to them for it or turn my back on them, you HAVE to accept that your parents are free to do with you as they please.


    I remember going through a phase when I was a Muslim where whenever I got talking to an Imaam or scholar in a mosque, I would ask them what rights a child has over their parents. They didn't have an answer that was based on the Qur'an or Hadeeth, which is what I was looking for. It was like they never heard of such a thing in their lives before! A child that has rights over their parents?!?!?! What a thing to say! lol... disgusting.

    Aha! I just found a fatwa telling a son that he has every right to leave his mother because she does UnIslamic things -
    http://www.islamqa.com/en/cat/2011#847

    I love how they overreact to the smallest things. "OMG she is sat at a table where others are drinking alcohoL but she is refraining, SIN SIN SIN!!!!" Roll Eyes
  • Re: Horried IslamQA Fatwa!Stay with Abusive Father & No Marriage without Wali
     Reply #9 - May 21, 2009, 10:20 AM

    I've just found a horrible fatwa which states that a married women should avoid telling her parents about marital disagreements (to preserve harmony and whatever), what a load of crap! Who is she supposed to go to for advice?!!!  finmad
    http://www.islamqa.com/en/cat/2011#3986
  • Re: Horried IslamQA Fatwa!Stay with Abusive Father & No Marriage without Wali
     Reply #10 - May 21, 2009, 12:34 PM

    It's almost verbatim the kind of advice that has been given to my sister, and at various times to me.

    My parents tell me that it doesn't matter what they do to me, I will be damned by god if I stop talking to them for it or turn my back on them, you HAVE to accept that your parents are free to do with you as they please.


    I remember going through a phase when I was a Muslim where whenever I got talking to an Imaam or scholar in a mosque, I would ask them what rights a child has over their parents. They didn't have an answer that was based on the Qur'an or Hadeeth, which is what I was looking for. It was like they never heard of such a thing in their lives before! A child that has rights over their parents?!?!?! What a thing to say! lol... disgusting.

    If the parents are acting usIslamic towards the child then I'm sure the child would be afforded the rights to rebel, afterall religion comes above anything Wink


    Oh yeah! That's it! That's what they told me lol.

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Horried IslamQA Fatwa!Stay with Abusive Father & No Marriage without Wali
     Reply #11 - May 21, 2009, 12:36 PM

    I've just found a horrible fatwa which states that a married women should avoid telling her parents about marital disagreements (to preserve harmony and whatever), what a load of crap! Who is she supposed to go to for advice?!!!  finmad
    http://www.islamqa.com/en/cat/2011#3986



    All this "keep quiet in order to keep harmony" approach I thought was supposed to be Central Asian cultural traditions, not religious tradition... Or at least that's what "modern Muslims" say, right?

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Horried IslamQA Fatwa!Stay with Abusive Father & No Marriage without Wali
     Reply #12 - May 21, 2009, 12:42 PM

    This is indeed a very saddening article, but is it really a horrible fatwa by IslamQA's own standards? I've read many equally appaling fatwas on that site...


    Actually, you're right-they've done worse-the reason I felt that this was bad was that the 16 year old girl might land up in serious trouble in her home country & these guys are doing nothing apart from a mild rebuke to her father to help her out! finmad

    While they're threatening her with examples of multiple Divine Punishments should she run away-& asking her to take the help of a Shariah Court & we all know what kind of punishments Shariah Courts of fundie nations give to women they deem disobedient...

    I too have seen many extremely appalling fatwas. Also interesting are the hadiths that a marriage without a wali is invalid, I hadn't thought about that before.

     "There is no marriage except with a wali." Narrated by Abu Dawood, 2085; al-Tirmidhi, 1101; Ibn Maajah, 1881, from the hadeeth of Abu Moosa al-Ashari; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi

    This means that a maiden lacks the right of self determination in marriage, while she may not be married against her will, she can't overrule her wali's orders to marry whoever she chooses either whistling2


    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
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