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Theme Changer

 Topic: Prophet Muhammad, Black Woman & Epidemic!

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  • Prophet Muhammad, Black Woman & Epidemic!
     OP - May 20, 2009, 02:53 PM

    I found the following couple of hadiths from the Sahih Bukhari:

    Volume 9, Book 87, Number 162:
    Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:

    concerning the dream of the Prophet in Medina: The Prophet said, "I saw (in a dream) a black woman with unkempt hair going out of Medina and settling at Mahai'a. I interpreted that as (a symbol of) the epidemic of Medina being transferred to Mahai'a, namely, Al-Juhfa."



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Volume 9, Book 87, Number 163:
    Narrated Salim's father:

    The Prophet said, "I saw (in a dream) a black woman with unkempt hair going out of Medina and settling in Mahai'a. I interpreted that as (a symbol of) epidemic of Medina being transferred to Mahai'a, namely, Al-Juhfa."

    Why a black woman?
    What does a dream of a black woman have to do with the spread of an epidemic?  questions2

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad, Black Woman & Epidemic!
     Reply #1 - May 20, 2009, 02:55 PM

    No idea.  That's a strange one - maybe its just a dream symbol, like the Freudians say trains are symbols for sex?

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad, Black Woman & Epidemic!
     Reply #2 - May 20, 2009, 03:04 PM

    No idea.  That's a strange one - maybe its just a dream symbol, like the Freudians say trains are symbols for sex?


    But why this particular symbol? Huh?

    In case of Freud, train is the penis & a tunnel is the vagina, so train entering tunnel is penis entering vagina...

    How is a black woman related to an epidemic? Why not a man? Why not a fair woman? questions2

    Just curious...

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad, Black Woman & Epidemic!
     Reply #3 - May 20, 2009, 03:07 PM

    I have absolutely no idea.  Maybe black people, being indigenous to another part of the world than Arabia, had immunity to diseases that the Arabs didn't, and so spread epidemics among the Arabs.  Like the Europeans when they arrived among Native Americans with germs like smallpox. 

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad, Black Woman & Epidemic!
     Reply #4 - May 20, 2009, 03:17 PM

    I have absolutely no idea.  Maybe black people, being indigenous to another part of the world than Arabia, had immunity to diseases that the Arabs didn't, and so spread epidemics among the Arabs.  Like the Europeans when they arrived among Native Americans with germs like smallpox. 


     Thinking hard that seems the most plausible, but why woman? There were loads of black males in Arabia too in the Prophet's time, documented in Islamic sources.

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad, Black Woman & Epidemic!
     Reply #5 - May 20, 2009, 04:31 PM

    I dont think the Quran was too keen on black people, or non-arabs

    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: Prophet Muhammad, Black Woman & Epidemic!
     Reply #6 - May 20, 2009, 05:20 PM

    I dont think the Quran was too keen on black people, or non-arabs


    I think thats the answer we're fishing for here (with the exception of Cheetah).


    Next we have a dream where Mohammad saw a black cat and interpreted it as a bad omen which, aside from the obvious racism, begs the question....how was he familiar with contemporary african-american slang?

    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad, Black Woman & Epidemic!
     Reply #7 - May 20, 2009, 06:19 PM


    Next we have a dream where Mohammad saw a black cat and interpreted it as a bad omen which, aside from the obvious racism, begs the question....how was he familiar with contemporary african-american slang?


    Well, Prophet Muhammad did order the killing of a black animal, only in this case, it happened to be a black dog, not a black cat... MSinghK

    Bukhari 2839 (note): "The Prophet did not order the killing of all dogs, for some are to be retained for hunting and watching. He ordered to kill the jet black ones. They might be more mischievous among them."

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad, Black Woman & Epidemic!
     Reply #8 - May 20, 2009, 06:28 PM


    Next we have a dream where Mohammad saw a black cat and interpreted it as a bad omen which, aside from the obvious racism, begs the question....how was he familiar with contemporary african-american slang?


    Well, Prophet Muhammad did order the killing of a black animal, only in this case, it happened to be a black dog, not a black cat... MSinghK

    Bukhari 2839 (note): "The Prophet did not order the killing of all dogs, for some are to be retained for hunting and watching. He ordered to kill the jet black ones. They might be more mischievous among them."



    Well there you have it, black dogs. And who uses "dog" as an informal term for a person/friend/buddy or as a mark of kinship?

    Black people, thats who!

    again, Im not infering anything...

    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad, Black Woman & Epidemic!
     Reply #9 - May 21, 2009, 07:59 PM

    I have absolutely no idea.  Maybe black people, being indigenous to another part of the world than Arabia, had immunity to diseases that the Arabs didn't, and so spread epidemics among the Arabs.  Like the Europeans when they arrived among Native Americans with germs like smallpox. 

    Not really. A logical explanation, stemming from a wrong assumption, leading to a wrong conclusion.

    Black are usually the one to die the most/quickest from deceases. They build immunity to their own local strains (malaria and stuff), but they are quite weak to the deceases that developed after the great migrations. I think Muhammad should have a dreamt about an Arab visiting Africa and inflicting them with slavery.

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad, Black Woman & Epidemic!
     Reply #10 - May 22, 2009, 09:18 AM

    No idea.  That's a strange one - maybe its just a dream symbol, like the Freudians say trains are symbols for sex?

    Freudians say everything is a symbol for sex Tongue
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad, Black Woman & Epidemic!
     Reply #11 - May 24, 2009, 05:45 PM

    No idea.  That's a strange one - maybe its just a dream symbol, like the Freudians say trains are symbols for sex?


    But why this particular symbol? Huh?

    In case of Freud, train is the penis & a tunnel is the vagina, so train entering tunnel is penis entering vagina...

    How is a black woman related to an epidemic? Why not a man? Why not a fair woman? questions2

    Just curious...


    Arabic Urban Legend.

  • Re: Prophet Muhammad, Black Woman & Epidemic!
     Reply #12 - May 24, 2009, 05:47 PM

    I have absolutely no idea.  Maybe black people, being indigenous to another part of the world than Arabia, had immunity to diseases that the Arabs didn't, and so spread epidemics among the Arabs.  Like the Europeans when they arrived among Native Americans with germs like smallpox. 


     Thinking hard that seems the most plausible, but why woman? There were loads of black males in Arabia too in the Prophet's time, documented in Islamic sources.


    Because Mohammad has issues with women?
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad, Black Woman & Epidemic!
     Reply #13 - May 24, 2009, 05:50 PM

    No idea.  That's a strange one - maybe its just a dream symbol, like the Freudians say trains are symbols for sex?

    Freudians say everything is a symbol for sex Tongue


    I think Freud has issues with women, too.
  • Prophet Muhammad, Black Woman & Epidemic!
     Reply #14 - December 25, 2013, 11:25 PM

    Isn't black (African) and slave the same word in the quran, Arabic wise? Haven't seen it in a translation. It's very possible it's just old fashioned racism. Even today the Arab slave trade is good business. It's considerably less secretive over there than in the west as far as I'm aware. Bringing this back because I'm honestly curious as to what people make of this.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Prophet Muhammad, Black Woman & Epidemic!
     Reply #15 - December 26, 2013, 12:49 PM

    There is a hadith where Mo mentions three things that are a bad omen, one of them being women. But since omens and whatnot was also deemed as shirk in other parts of hadith litterature, apologetics and scholars went to great lengths to reconcile these two obvious contradictory narrations. So there you go, women are bad omens and greatest fitnah left to man. Actually the jews were "destroyed" because of their women, and women passing by nullifies you prayer. There are so many other narrations to add to this, but these will suffice for now Smiley

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Prophet Muhammad, Black Woman & Epidemic!
     Reply #16 - December 26, 2013, 06:29 PM

    And the thing about black and slave being the same word?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Prophet Muhammad, Black Woman & Epidemic!
     Reply #17 - December 26, 2013, 06:43 PM

    That’s true for colloquial Arabic in general, but not for the Qur’an. I can’t think of a verse in the Qur’an that speaks of black people specifically. I'm quite certain one does not exist. There is a hadith, though, where the prophet says to obey your ruler even if he is a “raisin headed Ethiopian slave.”
  • Prophet Muhammad, Black Woman & Epidemic!
     Reply #18 - December 26, 2013, 06:51 PM

    As I think about it, the only verse I can think of actually says that apostates will be given black faces on the Day of Judgment. Guess I’ve got nothing to lose.

    3:106 On the Day [some] faces will turn white and [some] faces will turn black. As for those whose faces turn black, [to them it will be said], "Did you disbelieve after your belief? Then taste the punishment for what you used to reject."
  • Prophet Muhammad, Black Woman & Epidemic!
     Reply #19 - December 26, 2013, 07:08 PM

    well we could criticize all day that Prophet of Islam .. that alleged Muhammad  from every angle but he was not a racist guy, neither there are any verses that are based on color of the skin..

    You can say that guy was sexiest, SODOM., power hungry.. nut case.. paranoid... schizophrenic...mental case   whatever ., But that guy was not racist..  Yes there are some silly hadith but I don't think there was racism around Arabia at that time..  In fact even Christianity in those days there was no racism., There are well known African/Black guys from north Africa as  Popes during that 1st to 5th century..

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Prophet Muhammad, Black Woman & Epidemic!
     Reply #20 - December 26, 2013, 07:14 PM

    As I think about it, the only verse I can think of actually says that apostates will be given black faces on the Day of Judgment. Guess I’ve got nothing to lose.

    3:106 On the Day [some] faces will turn white and [some] faces will turn black. As for those whose faces turn black, [to them it will be said], "Did you disbelieve after your belief? Then taste the punishment for what you used to reject."


    So this?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Prophet Muhammad, Black Woman & Epidemic!
     Reply #21 - December 26, 2013, 07:30 PM

    A devout Muslim lady once told me about her experience washing the dead. One was a white Bosnian lady, who was all "black" in her face. She later on found out that the Bosnian lady did not pray, and was convinced that this was the "blackness" allah speaks about in the quran. She also remembered an old Ethiopian grandma who, according to her, had "noor" in her face. She guessed that she must have been a very devout old lady.

    I don't think it has anything to do with the actual colour of the skin, rather it has to do what other people percieve as a "luminous" or "radiant" face vs. someone who looks gloomy and dark. Which, in the end, is highly subjective IMO. Have you seen the "marks" some people have from making sujood, on their forehead? Wasn't there a verse or even hadith about this? Even my islamist fundie husband laughed about it and said that the "marks" are probably just skin infections or callus due to prostrating on dirty floors  Cheesy

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Prophet Muhammad, Black Woman & Epidemic!
     Reply #22 - December 26, 2013, 07:33 PM

    Quote
    Have you seen the "marks" some people have from making sujood, on their forehead? Wasn't there a verse or even hadith about this? Even my islamist fundie husband laughed about it and said that the "marks" are probably just skin infections or callus due to prostrating on dirty floors 



    48:29 Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah ; and those with him are forceful against the disbelievers, merciful among themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating [in prayer], seeking bounty from Allah and [His] pleasure. Their mark is on their faces from the trace of prostration. That is their description in the Torah.
  • Prophet Muhammad, Black Woman & Epidemic!
     Reply #23 - December 26, 2013, 07:38 PM

    ............ and said that the "marks" are probably just skin infections or callus due to prostrating on dirty floors  Cheesy


    Noooo.. Forehead marks are spirit of Islam..


    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Prophet Muhammad, Black Woman & Epidemic!
     Reply #24 - December 26, 2013, 07:50 PM


    48:29 Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah ; and those with him are forceful against the disbelievers, merciful among themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating [in prayer], seeking bounty from Allah and [His] pleasure. Their mark is on their faces from the trace of prostration. That is their description in the Torah.


    Thank you happymurtad, I was too lazy to go find it myself. Now this becomes problematic. Are we supposed to interpret it literally like the dude on the picture or not? A lot of Muslims will have problems, since they fight between each other who the "real" Muslims are, the "real" al taa'ifat al mansoorah so to speak. All groups, sufis (both extreme and soft core), salafis etc etc have people who have been blessed by these wonderful marks...

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Prophet Muhammad, Black Woman & Epidemic!
     Reply #25 - December 26, 2013, 07:55 PM

    I wouldn’t read too much into it, honestly. Muhammad saw that his followers had blisters on their heads from prostrating on the unfinished floor of the mosque, then he figured he’d make a verse about it.
  • Prophet Muhammad, Black Woman & Epidemic!
     Reply #26 - December 26, 2013, 08:00 PM

    Well, I'm not reading too much into it, but people who see the quran as the literal word of their creator will inevitably see it as something of importance   Roll Eyes

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Prophet Muhammad, Black Woman & Epidemic!
     Reply #27 - December 26, 2013, 08:03 PM

    Well, from a salafi standpoint at least, it’s an easy reconciliation. Sufis and other “deviant” groups, while they may have the “mark,” will be guilty of bid’ah thus making their marks null and void.
  • Prophet Muhammad, Black Woman & Epidemic!
     Reply #28 - December 26, 2013, 08:08 PM

    But only those who are "with the messenger or allah", spending much time in worship pleasing their lord will have the mark. The marks are just for special people... But you are right, salafis and other Muslims always find nice ways to explain away "troublesome" verses

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
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