Top 10 Logical Fallacies Used By Religion

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Re: Top 10 Logical Fallacies Used By Religion
Reply #60 - November 08, 2009, 09:32 AM

I don't think these are fallacies.

But I wanted to add them :-)

Out of context.
Right context bad translation.
Right context, right translation wrong interpretation.
Right context, Right translation, right interpretation wrong Shaik.
Right context, right translation, right interpretation, right Shaik wrong beard!

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Re: Top 10 Logical Fallacies Used By Religion
Reply #61 - November 08, 2009, 10:13 AM

That is a good list Rubaiyat. Maybe there should be a specific list for fallacies that muslims commit.
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Re: Top 10 Logical Fallacies Used By Religion
Reply #62 - November 08, 2009, 10:15 AM

Quote from: Rubaiyat on November 08, 2009, 09:32 AM
I don't think these are fallacies.

But I wanted to add them :-)

Out of context.
Right context bad translation.
Right context, right translation wrong interpretation.
Right context, Right translation, right interpretation wrong Shaik.
Right context, right translation, right interpretation, right Shaik wrong beard!

Nice Rubaiyat, I see what you are getting at. The list could be endless!

Right context, right translation, right interpretation, right Shaik, right beard, wrong mood!

...
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Re: Top 10 Logical Fallacies Used By Religion
Reply #63 - November 08, 2009, 11:26 AM

Quote
Right context, right translation, right interpretation, right Shaik, right beard, wrong mood!

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Re: Top 10 Logical Fallacies Used By Religion
Reply #64 - November 08, 2009, 11:29 AM

Quote from: Rubaiyat on November 08, 2009, 09:32 AM
I don't think these are fallacies.

But I wanted to add them :-)

Out of context.
Right context bad translation.
Right context, right translation wrong interpretation.
Right context, Right translation, right interpretation wrong Shaik.
Right context, right translation, right interpretation, right Shaik wrong beard!

They're bare assertion fallacies

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bare_assertion_fallacy

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Concorde Fallacy
Reply #65 - November 13, 2009, 03:37 AM

Just watching:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvJZQwy9dvE

Jump to: 00:46:55 and there is an interesting point he raised regarding the concorde fallacy - are Muslims out there actually stuck in that situation. They've invested so much into it that to walk away from it at such a stage could cause problems?

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Re: Concorde Fallacy
Reply #66 - November 13, 2009, 04:29 AM

Well most Muslims are brainwashed, so they will continue to stay in Islam, I guess.

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Re: Concorde Fallacy
Reply #67 - November 13, 2009, 11:33 AM

Link correction http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvJZQwy9dvE

Mods - can we merge this thred with the cheetahs fallacy thread, as the concord fallacy is a new one thats not there..

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Re: Top 10 Logical Fallacies Used By Religion
Reply #68 - November 15, 2009, 01:58 AM

The pidgeon fallacy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f15PNrk94kg

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Re: Top 10 Logical Fallacies Used By Religion
Reply #69 - November 15, 2009, 02:56 AM

I've known about Skinner's experiments with pigeons for years and always thought they were wonderfully illustrative of some aspects of behaviour.

Apart from that the video makes some good general points. One of my favourite lines to throw at people who espouse homeopathy is that if their theory is correct (dilution makes something stronger) then logically it would follow that washing something would make it dirtier.

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Re: Top 10 Logical Fallacies Used By Religion
Reply #70 - November 17, 2009, 09:44 PM

I don't think this one is on this list yet but it ought to be... a few people have mentioned it on the forum recently:

from wikipedia
Quote
No true Scotsman is a logical fallacy where the meaning of a term is ad hoc redefined to make a desired assertion about it true. It is a type of self-sealing argument.

Imagine Hamish McDonald, a Scotsman, sitting down with his Glasgow Morning Herald and seeing an article about how the "Brighton Sex Maniac Strikes Again." Hamish is shocked and declares that "No Scotsman would do such a thing." The next day he sits down to read his Glasgow Morning Herald again and this time finds an article about an Aberdeen man whose brutal actions make the Brighton sex maniac seem almost gentlemanly. This fact shows that Hamish was wrong in his opinion but is he going to admit this? Not likely. This time he says, "No true Scotsman would do such a thing."
?Antony Flew, Thinking About Thinking (1975)

A simpler rendition often given follows:

Teacher: All Scotsmen enjoy haggis.
Student: My uncle is a Scotsman, and he doesn't like haggis!
Teacher: Well, all true Scotsmen like haggis.

This is an ad hoc attempt to retain an unreasoned assertion. When faced with a counterexample to a universal claim, rather than denying the counterexample or rejecting the original universal claim, this fallacy is employed to shift the definition of the original class to tautologically exclude the specific case or others like it.

A universal claim is of the form "All x are y" or "No x are y." In the example above, the universal claim is "No Scotsmen are brutal maniacal rapists." (No S are BMR.) The counterexample is given by the Aberdonian, who, it is implied, is a brutal maniacal rapist. The response relies on a continued insistence that No Scots are brutal maniacal rapists, and to thus conclude that the brutal maniacal and rapacious Aberdonian is no true Scot. Such a conclusion requires shifting the presumed definition of "Scotsman" to exclude all brutal maniacal rapists.

In situations where the subject's status is previously determined by specific behaviors, the fallacy does not apply. For example, it is perfectly justified to say, "No true vegetarian eats meat," because not eating meat is the single thing that precisely defines a person as a vegetarian.

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Re: Top 10 Logical Fallacies Used By Religion
Reply #71 - November 17, 2009, 09:53 PM

Ive heard it as this:

Scotsman A: "You know, laddie, no Scotsman puts sugar in his porridge."
Scotsman B: "Is that so? I seem to recall my cousin Angus puts sugar in his porridge"
Scotsman A: "Aye... but no true Scotsman puts sugar in his porridge."

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Re: Top 10 Logical Fallacies Used By Religion
Reply #72 - November 17, 2009, 11:41 PM

Yep, muslims really fall into this category one too many times.
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Re: Top 10 Logical Fallacies Used By Religion
Reply #73 - December 25, 2009, 05:54 PM

Quote from: Hassan on October 30, 2009, 06:25 PM
A great deal of this post is a good example of Tu Quoque in reply to my video about Hell (the other parts are just meaningless nonsense):[/b]

Thank you Hassan for cutting and pasting one of my comments to your video post, I was and still am reluctant to enter this forum and hope my reservations are unfounded.

The "meaningless nonsense" you refer to of course deals with the basis of your reason i.e. your definition of "good". Amusing for an athiest (if thats what you are). I will post two of my other comments here:

Quote:
Naming an argument doesnt constitute a response and doesnt invalidate the point I made.

Most religions are mutually exclusive and consider that some non-believers (and some believers as well actually) will be punished in the next life. That you consider that a flaw, is a flaw.

You havent addressed the point that your definition of good is also flawed and which happens to be the basis of your "reservations".

If these are issues then they are so virtually in all religions, even Western ones. UNQUOTE

QUOTE
The place you invite me to is one where any rational discussion would be drowned out by those who will bay for my blood as I am a believing Muslim and most non-Muslims who frequent your forum hate me simply for that.

Hence your ubiquitous disclaimer:

"BUT PLEASE NOTE: I am not responsible for the opinions expressed on that forum."

I consider that you are at least partially responsible as you provide the broth that cultures the unfettered expression of those same hate-mongering opinions. UNQUOTE
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Re: Top 10 Logical Fallacies Used By Religion
Reply #74 - December 25, 2009, 06:34 PM

No one here will do as you claim "bay for my blood as I am a believing Muslim" nor do we hate you either, a little unfair as you have not even begun any discourse yet.

However we are happy to point out the flaws in any argument you choose, if you wish to make that challenge

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Re: Top 10 Logical Fallacies Used By Religion
Reply #75 - December 26, 2009, 07:39 AM

Not sure if this one has been added yet, but in the case of ex-Muslims especially, the No True Scotsman fallacy is commonly used. e.g. "You were never a true Muslim because you left Islam".

"But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads; Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron." [Qur'an (22:19-21)]
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Re: Top 10 Logical Fallacies Used By Religion
Reply #76 - December 26, 2009, 09:29 AM

Yeah, its already here - you might want to read the other ones, they're good too

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Re: Top 10 Logical Fallacies Used By Religion
Reply #77 - December 27, 2009, 08:42 AM

Quote
Most religions are mutually exclusive and consider that some non-believers (and some believers as well actually) will be punished in the next life. That you consider that a flaw, is a flaw.

This is complete rubbish. Most religions don't believe the concept of eternal damnation of disbelievers. Where did you get this idea? Christianity and Islam are pretty much the only two religions with this repulsive belief as a concrete part of their dogma.

Quote
The place you invite me to is one where any rational discussion would be drowned out by those who will bay for my blood as I am a believing Muslim and most non-Muslims who frequent your forum hate me simply for that.

You have 2 fucking posts here, and you make such a sweeping claim against us here based on what experience? If anything, a lot of the time the membership of CEMB often ends up defending Muslims and sometimes even Islam against Islamophobes or other hatemongers (sure we have a few here). In fact, CEMB is a refuge for precisely those who are against hating on Muslim simply because they are Muslims. Our main contention is a) the truth of the beliefs b) some of the rotten political and social elements of Islam. If you want to discuss those matters then you can stick around. But if you consider us hateful merely because we often mock the prophet or some idiotic believers then the problem is not us, but you for being simply too sensitive and girlish!

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Re: Top 10 Logical Fallacies Used By Religion
Reply #78 - February 01, 2010, 04:11 PM

Quote from: Rubaiyat on November 08, 2009, 09:32 AM
I don't think these are fallacies.

But I wanted to add them :-)

Out of context.
Right context bad translation.
Right context, right translation wrong interpretation.
Right context, Right translation, right interpretation wrong Shaik.
Right context, right translation, right interpretation, right Shaik wrong beard!

I don't understand, can you give some examples?

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Re: Top 10 Logical Fallacies Used By Religion
Reply #79 - May 27, 2010, 08:46 PM

Boil this down to "it must be true because it makes me feel like I think I should feel."

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Re: Top 10 Logical Fallacies Used By Religion
Reply #80 - May 27, 2010, 10:33 PM

Quote from: J4m3z on February 01, 2010, 04:11 PM
I don't understand, can you give some examples?

4:34

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Re: Top 10 Logical Fallacies Used By Religion
Reply #81 - July 17, 2010, 07:14 PM

Quote from: ExKimDonesia on December 26, 2009, 07:39 AM
Not sure if this one has been added yet, but in the case of ex-Muslims especially, the No True Scotsman fallacy is commonly used. e.g. "You were never a true Muslim because you left Islam".

It's funny when someone does it.

In a actual conversation it sounds more like:

"If you had actually braced Islam, you never would have left, because it is the one true religion. Allah may throw you into the hellfire and punish you on the day of judgment.

But hey, I'll pray that you get saved and return to the path."

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Re: Top 10 Logical Fallacies Used By Religion
Reply #82 - July 17, 2010, 07:23 PM

Quote
"If you had actually braced Islam, you never would have left, because it is the one true religion. Allah may throw you into the hellfire and punish you on the day of judgment.

But hey, I'll pray that you get saved and return to the path."

Yah.. But this guy Prayed Allah all the time that too in Public..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVG4ZvIrlms

He supported Islam in every way 24/7/364 and he rained insults on Christians in every public meeting .. Let us have a look how Allah helped him on this earth..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4pbSbarYGo

And Now Christians are going all over web putting those unfortunate Scenes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN-_20sjHVI

Forget Allah/Forget God.. Forget holy doll all that..

Be Good do Good live happily and die happily..

Bull shit books..

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Re: Top 10 Logical Fallacies Used By Religion
Reply #83 - July 18, 2010, 07:33 PM

Quote from: Rubaiyat on November 08, 2009, 09:32 AM
I don't think these are fallacies.

But I wanted to add them :-)

Out of context.
Right context bad translation.
Right context, right translation wrong interpretation.
Right context, Right translation, right interpretation wrong Shaik.
Right context, right translation, right interpretation, right Shaik wrong beard!

What happens if you don't believe in Allah? You'll go to Hell.

What if you believe in Allah, but not Muhammad? You'll go to Hell.

What if you believe in Allah and Muhammad, but not Hell? You'll go to Hell for not believing in Hell.

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Re: Top 10 Logical Fallacies Used By Religion
Reply #84 - July 18, 2010, 08:30 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on July 17, 2010, 07:23 PM
Yah.. But this guy Prayed Allah all the time that too in Public..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVG4ZvIrlms

He supported Islam in every way 24/7/364 and he rained insults on Christians in every public meeting .. Let us have a look how Allah helped him on this earth..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4pbSbarYGo

And Now Christians are going all over web putting those unfortunate Scenes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN-_20sjHVI

Forget Allah/Forget God.. Forget holy doll all that..

Be Good do Good live happily and die happily..

Bull shit books..

Is he getting humped from behind by big bubba?

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Re: Top 10 Logical Fallacies Used By Religion
Reply #85 - December 16, 2010, 08:38 PM

I think it would be very good if a mod adds at least No True Scotsman to the first post - although it can be considered a form of petitio principii/circular logic.

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Re: Top 10 Logical Fallacies Used By Religion
Reply #86 - March 17, 2011, 10:37 AM

Argumentum ad hitlerum aka godwins law.

Deflection of an argument to make comparison to hitler and/or nazi germany. This is a favorite of xian woo woos but I have seen it alluded to debating muslims.

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Re: Top 10 Logical Fallacies Used By Religion
Reply #87 - March 26, 2011, 03:24 PM

Is this not the Argument from Ignorance?

I am better than your god......and so are you.

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Re: Top 10 Logical Fallacies Used By Religion
Reply #88 - March 26, 2011, 03:52 PM

It's awful for these christians to gloat like this at another man's death, no matter how much one may disagree with him in life. He may have been deluded by religion but he didnt seem violent.

Shame on these "God is Love" christians.

I think the debate between him and the African preacher was a daft as one between 2 people arguing between Leprecahuns and Fairies existing. But I was saddened to see him in pain and fear.

I am better than your god......and so are you.

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Re: Top 10 Logical Fallacies Used By Religion
Reply #89 - June 03, 2011, 06:51 PM

Guys, this is one of my favourite topics.

I'd like to add something. Is there a specific name for this type of reasoning: ''I have nothing against you, but...

For example: I have nothing against homosexuals, but i think they shouldn't be allowed to marry.

Or : I have nothing against blacks, but I don't want my daughter to marry a black guy.

I love it when people claim: I have a friend who is black/Jew/homosexual, that means I don't hate that particular group of people. And later they go on verbal dhiarea how Jews and homosexuals are bad for society.

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