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 Topic: Pre Islamic Achievements of Islamic or Islam Ruled Societies

 (Read 9579 times)
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  • Pre Islamic Achievements of Islamic or Islam Ruled Societies
     OP - May 09, 2009, 04:08 AM

    Islam once ruled much of the world, & there was a so called Golden Age for a brief period where Islamic societies achieved much.

    I have compiled a list of the scientific\technological achievements of the Pre Islamic era of the countries which were or continue to be ruled by Islam.I have included India since it suffered both multiple Islamic conquests as well as being under Muslim rule for a millennia.

    These date from the 6th millennia B.C. & I have stopped just before Islam's beginning.

    6th millennium BCE

    Irrigation in the Fertile Crescent
    Beer in Sumer, Mesopotamia (Iraq)
    City in Mesopotamia (Iraq)
    Plough in Mesopotamia (Iraq)


    5th millennium BCE

    Beer and bread in Egypt
    Wheel and axle combination in Mesopotamia


    4th millennium BCE

    4000 BCE: Canal in Mesopotamia
    4000 BCE: Stone paved street Ur Iraq
    3500 BCE: Plywood in Egypt
    3500 BCE: Writing in Sumer
    3500 BCE: Carts in Sumer
    3000 BCE: Bronze: Susa (Iran)
    Cement in Egypt
    River boats in Egypt
    Comb in Persia (these combs were very refined, so combs themselves are probably older)

    3rd millennium BCE
    2800 BCE: Soap in Mesopotamia
    2630-2611 BCE: Step pyramid: Imhotep in Egypt
    2600s BCE: Papyrus: Imhotep in Egypt
    2600s BCE: Suture: Imhotep in Egypt
    2600s BCE: Pharmaceutical cream: Imhotep in Egypt
    2600 BCE: Chariot in Mesopotamia
    2000 BCE: Aqueduct in ancient Egypt

    2nd millennium BCE
    1300-1000 BCE: Zinc in India
    1000 BCE: Lens in Assyria

    1st millennium BCE
    00 BCE: Chain pump in Babylonia
    500s BCE: Sugar in India
    500s BCE: Dental bridge in Etruria
    500s BCE: Plastic surgery: Sushruta in India
    500s BCE: Cosmetic surgery: Sushruta in India
    475 BCE: Scythed Chariot: Ajatashatru in India
    400s BCE: Linguistics: Pāini in India
    350 BCE: Water wheel in India
    350 BCE: Watermill in India
    c. 300: Wootz steel in India
    300s BCE: India ink in India
    200s BCE: Diamond (gemstone) in India
    200s BCE: Cashmere wool in India
    200s BCE: Stupa in India
    200s BCE: Pagoda in India
    100s BCE: Big-toe stirrup in India
    21 BCE: Catapult in ancient Near East
    Motels in Persia.

    1st-5th centuries
    100s: Aeolipile: Hero of Alexandria in Roman Egypt
    100s: Carding in India
    200-400: Stepwell in India
    300s: Toothpaste in Roman Egypt
    400s: Cotton gin in India
    Fore-and-aft rig in India
    Kamal in India

    6th-8th centuries
    500s: Chess in India
    500s: Ludo in India


    So many of the countries which have produced scientific or technological achievements under Islamic rule also produced tremendous science & technology for millennia before facing an Islamic jihad & subsequent Islamization. Egypt, Iraq, Iran & India had been global superpowers for millennia before Islam. It wasn't very difficult for quite a few of them to continue placing a value on knowledge, just like it wouldn't be difficult for Europe,Japan & U.S.A. to continue being advanced if they were to become conquered by Islam tomorrow. The countries which produced little of worth pre Islam, like Saudi continued to produced little of worth post Islam, except jihadis who slaughtered infidels all over the most successful parts of the world.

    Iraq was 50% Christian upto the 16th century(5% Christian today). It would take time for the pre Islamic cultures or ethic to be obliterated, which happened over hundreds of years.

    Why does no one sing the praises of the Golden Age of Ancient Egyptian faith or Ancient Mesopotemian faith's science?



    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Pre Islamic Achievements of Islamic or Islam Ruled Societies
     Reply #1 - May 09, 2009, 04:11 AM

    Umm, chess and ludo hardly qualify as scientific or technological achievements. Now beer, on the other hand, definitely ranks up near the top.

    Seriously, that list needs a bit of work methinks.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Pre Islamic Achievements of Islamic or Islam Ruled Societies
     Reply #2 - May 09, 2009, 04:29 AM

    Umm, chess and ludo hardly qualify as scientific or technological achievements. Now beer, on the other hand, definitely ranks up near the top.


    Why does beer rank near the top? grin12 Ludo, & to some extent chess is frivolous, but even kids can play these, there's an age bar to drinking beer.

    Some more:
    2nd Millennium BCE

    Iron in Anatolia, Caucasus and India
    Perfume: Tapputi in Mesopotamia
    Bronze Age sword in Mesopotamia
    Glass in Egypt
    Spoked-wheel chariot: Persia
    Water clock in Egypt



    1st millennium BCE
    Bookbinding in India
    Blowgun in India
    Indigo dye in India
    Iron pellet in India
    Jute in Bengal,India
    Neem toothbrush in India

    Seriously, that list needs a bit of work methinks.


    You're right, that list isn't the world's best, some frivolous stuff have been added, some important stuff might've been omitted, but the point is that these particular societies were great achievers pre Islam & often for millennia.

    Egypt acheived so much for millennia, unlike Islam whose achievements lasted barely half a millennia, & unlike Islam's achievements which were made when the societies conquered by jihadis hadn't yet been Islamised, & rather abruptly ceased as Islamization increased, Egypt's achievements were made when Egyptians were all devoutly worshipping their gods & goddesses! worship

    Even their architecture, like Karnak temple, Luxor temple & Abu Simbel is so stunning! great









    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Pre Islamic Achievements of Islamic or Islam Ruled Societies
     Reply #3 - May 09, 2009, 07:32 AM

    I spent 6 months in Dubai and Sharjah last year. On the roads, I would see advertisements for Museum of Islamic science etc. I always wondered, why does everything have an islamic tag attached to it? I never once saw an ad for a museum of Arabic science or a museum of Emirati science.
    Cant a muslim ever make a discovery or an invention without it being labeled as an islamic dicovery/invention by other muslims?
    Just wondering...

    It is better to remain quiet and have people think that you are an idiot than open your mouth and remove all doubt.
  • Re: Pre Islamic Achievements of Islamic or Islam Ruled Societies
     Reply #4 - May 09, 2009, 12:10 PM

    Thanks for that Rashna, I always thought soap was made by muslims (as my dad told me), turns out it was made much earlier. Makes me wonder else I've been lied to about now.

    Here is a great device to add to your list; I bring you the worlds first computer made by the Ancient Greeks- The Antikythera mechanism
    It's a brilliant peice of machinary which shows the orbits of the planets, the moon and our sun. It can be used to predict eclipses and such.

    I wonder what else has been lost from the Greek era.
  • Re: Pre Islamic Achievements of Islamic or Islam Ruled Societies
     Reply #5 - May 09, 2009, 01:57 PM

    Thanks for that Rashna, I always thought soap was made by muslims (as my dad told me), turns out it was made much earlier. Makes me wonder else I've been lied to about now.

    Here is a great device to add to your list; I bring you the worlds first computer made by the Ancient Greeks- The Antikythera mechanism
    It's a brilliant peice of machinary which shows the orbits of the planets, the moon and our sun. It can be used to predict eclipses and such.

    I wonder what else has been lost from the Greek era.


    In fairness, they did come up with quite a few advancements during the Islamic era.  But I think it's more attributable to the fact that there was a solid, stable society that gave people the chance to do this stuff.  It wasn't anything inherent in Islam.
  • Re: Pre Islamic Achievements of Islamic or Islam Ruled Societies
     Reply #6 - May 09, 2009, 02:16 PM

    Thanks for that Rashna, I always thought soap was made by muslims (as my dad told me), turns out it was made much earlier. Makes me wonder else I've been lied to about now.

    Here is a great device to add to your list; I bring you the worlds first computer made by the Ancient Greeks- The Antikythera mechanism
    It's a brilliant peice of machinary which shows the orbits of the planets, the moon and our sun. It can be used to predict eclipses and such.

    I wonder what else has been lost from the Greek era.


    In fairness, they did come up with quite a few advancements during the Islamic era.  But I think it's more attributable to the fact that there was a solid, stable society that gave people the chance to do this stuff.  It wasn't anything inherent in Islam.

    I know, I worded my post quite badly. I'm aware they made quite a lot of advances but they do get a lot of credit for stuff they don't deserve by muslims who attribute some scientific advances to the muslims rather than the people they learned it from.
  • Re: Pre Islamic Achievements of Islamic or Islam Ruled Societies
     Reply #7 - May 09, 2009, 02:27 PM

    Thanks for that Rashna, I always thought soap was made by muslims (as my dad told me), turns out it was made much earlier. Makes me wonder else I've been lied to about now.

    Here is a great device to add to your list; I bring you the worlds first computer made by the Ancient Greeks- The Antikythera mechanism
    It's a brilliant peice of machinary which shows the orbits of the planets, the moon and our sun. It can be used to predict eclipses and such.

    I wonder what else has been lost from the Greek era.


    I was told by a Kuwait Muslim living somewhere in Europe that Muslims invented the zero, although the zero was invented in ancient pre Islamic India. This lady's English was poor, so she said Muslims "invaded" the zero. Grin Muslims neither invented nor invaded the zero, but they certainly invaded the land which invented the zero! Tongue

    In Egypt, our tour guide told us that Muslims invented the calender, although the calender was invented in Ancient Egypt, millennia before Islam emerged, conquered, Islamized & Arabized Egypt.

    I've also been told by Muslims that the Quran stated the concept of a spherical earth long before it was known in the world, although the idea of a spherical earth was known for a millennia, ancient Greek & ancient Indian scientists stated it looong before Islam came up with an egg shaped earth! Roll Eyes


    Thanks for that invention Peruvian, Greece too was a Muslim colony for a long time.  Smiley

    Infact, Islam was in a brilliant position geographically, it had easy access to Indian & Chinese knowledge on one side, & Greaco Roman knowledge on the other side, while it immediately conquered the millennia old global superpowers of Egypt, Iraq, Iran & North West India. For some European countries with harsh climatic conditions like the Nordic countries, or U.K., having access to the East's knowledge was tremendously difficult, & for the now very prosperousFar East, access to Greaco Roman knowledge was difficult, for Islam it was easy, besides they also profited immensely from blocking the Silk Road & plundering immensely prosperous infidel nations.

    These newly conquered by Islam Mid East countries had an ethic which had long valued knowledge & contributed immensely to world knowledge, & it retained it for some centuries, when the pre dominant faith wasn't Islamic, this ethic took time to peter out. Today if the Heads of State in the West & Japan abruptly turn Muslim, their pre Islamic ethics are going to remain till quite some more time, Islamic ethics & culture would slowly become pre dominant, as it did in Iraq, Iran etc.

    I spent 6 months in Dubai and Sharjah last year. On the roads, I would see advertisements for Museum of Islamic science etc. I always wondered, why does everything have an islamic tag attached to it? I never once saw an ad for a museum of Arabic science or a museum of Emirati science.
    Cant a muslim ever make a discovery or an invention without it being labeled as an islamic dicovery/invention by other muslims?
    Just wondering...


    Thats' because the pre Islamic era was termed jahiliyyah or age of ignorance by Muhammad, so all the magnificent achievements of Pre Islamic mid east minds & cultures(& other Islamic cultures) are also part of jahiliyyah, when a country is Islamized, it often stamps on its magnificent pre Islamic ancestral culture, claiming that it was worthless, like Iran for one.  Besides the Islamic identity is an all encompassing one for its adherents, so other aspects of their identities cease to matter.

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Pre Islamic Achievements of Islamic or Islam Ruled Societies
     Reply #8 - May 09, 2009, 02:44 PM

    Why does no one sing the praises of the Golden Age of Ancient Egyptian faith or Ancient Mesopotemian faith's science?


    They certainly do. For example, the BBC TV series, entitled "What the Ancients Did For Us". Episode 5 was the Indians, Episode 6 was the Mesopotamians and Episode 7 was the Egyptians.

    Mesopotamia is called "the cradle of civilisation". Mesopotamian astronomy and maths is highly revered and the Mesopotamians are credited with many inventions that we take for granted today, such as flood control and irrigation.

    People sing the praises of Ancient Egypt so much that many people don't believe that humans were capable of achieving what the Ancient Egyptians achieved and it must have been alien influences!

    The Indus Valley civilisation is credited with creating the first system of uniform weights and measures. Ancient Mayan astronomy is considered amazingly advanced for its time. And I don't even want to get started on China!

    Anyway, yes it is wrong to consider that Islam brought civilisation to these lands which you mentioned, but that is not what is claimed. Just because historians give credence to the idea of the Islamic Golden Age, it does not mean to say that they are saying that they are not giving any credit to the pre islamic cultures of the lands which were conquered by Muslims.

    The Golden Age of Islam was a remarkable period of advancement for the Muslim cultures, but saying that does not mean to say that other cultures did not make advancements in scientific and technological fields!

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Pre Islamic Achievements of Islamic or Islam Ruled Societies
     Reply #9 - May 09, 2009, 02:48 PM

    Yeh, not only did they know the world was round, they actually used trig to calcuate it's circumference pretty accurately....  all about a thousand years before the Quran! 

    I've heard the 'muslims invented zero' thing a lot too....  someone must teach that in schools somewhere. 
  • Re: Pre Islamic Achievements of Islamic or Islam Ruled Societies
     Reply #10 - May 09, 2009, 02:48 PM

    Thanks for that Rashna, I always thought soap was made by muslims (as my dad told me), turns out it was made much earlier. Makes me wonder else I've been lied to about now.


    Muslims invented soap?!!! Where on Earth did he get that idea from?! It reminds me of that man in Goodness Gracious Me, who says that everything is from India.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjWd9a8Ck8U

    I have met many Muslims like this (If you replace "its Indian!" with "its Muslim!")

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Pre Islamic Achievements of Islamic or Islam Ruled Societies
     Reply #11 - May 09, 2009, 02:49 PM

    This video up to 5:00 deals with pre-Islamic achievements of Islam and what happened to these when Islam took over:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szLxU0cqnvA
  • Re: Pre Islamic Achievements of Islamic or Islam Ruled Societies
     Reply #12 - May 09, 2009, 02:58 PM

    Yeh, not only did they know the world was round, they actually used trig to calcuate it's circumference pretty accurately....  all about a thousand years before the Quran! 

    I've heard the 'muslims invented zero' thing a lot too....  someone must teach that in schools somewhere. 


    The whole "Muslims invented zero" thing is a misconception. Basically, the arabic numerical system was introduced into Europe through Al Andalus and replaced Roman Numerals because it was a much simpler way to do Maths! So people assume that because Europeans adopted Arabic Numerals, they also assume that that is where the number 0 comes from (There was no 0 in Roman Numerals). As Rashna pointed out, The number 0 was invented as a number in India, and surprisingly recently in the 9th Century!

    And Arabic numerals were invented in India in around AD 500.

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Pre Islamic Achievements of Islamic or Islam Ruled Societies
     Reply #13 - May 09, 2009, 10:35 PM

    Anyway, yes it is wrong to consider that Islam brought civilisation to these lands which you mentioned, but that is not what is claimed. Just because historians give credence to the idea of the Islamic Golden Age, it does not mean to say that they are saying that they are not giving any credit to the pre islamic cultures of the lands which were conquered by Muslims.

    The Golden Age of Islam was a remarkable period of advancement for the Muslim cultures, but saying that does not mean to say that other cultures did not make advancements in scientific and technological fields!


    Many of the Muslim cultures mentioned weren't Muslim at all during the Golden Age, they had just been conquered by Islam, they predominantly retained their previous faith. Iraq(Mesopotemia, Sumeria,Babylonia) was 50% Christian upto the 16th century, which has dwindled to just 5% today.

    These cultures had been successful, & had witnessed advancement all through their long histories pre Islam, the Golden Age continued with that for a short time. It also made great use of its strategic location, gathering useful Greaco Roman knowledge from the West, & Sino Indian knowledge from the East.

    With or without Islam, these cultures had been innovating! The pre Islamic ethics take time to vanish, just like had Bin Laden managed to conquer U.S.A. today, it might just innovate for a couple of centuries more!

    The Islamic countries with harsh climatic conditions, like Islam's birthplace of Saudi was unable to innovate pre Islam, & unable to export anything post Islam except global jihadis who attacked the most prosperous & successful civilizations of their time, & recently oil & jihadis, who still attack the most prosperous civilizations! Tongue

    In Europe, countries which had been previously relatively underdeveloped, & had harsh climates, like Scandinavia, the Celtic & Germanic nations slowly rose to prominence, unlike places like Saudi-which started out poor, & remained poor.

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Pre Islamic Achievements of Islamic or Islam Ruled Societies
     Reply #14 - May 09, 2009, 11:24 PM

    Some more pre Islamic achievements:

    The most notable perhaps-algebra, Islam didn't need to develop algebra from scratch, it conquered the Babylonian civilization, & the ancient Babylonians were the pioneers of algebra, which developed further under Islamic rule:

    Quote from: wikipedia
    Babylonian algebra
    See also: Babylonian mathematics
     

    The Plimpton 322 tablet.
    The origins of algebra can be traced to the ancient Babylonians,[6] who developed a positional number system which greatly aided them in solving their rhetorical algebraic equations. The Babylonians were not interested in exact solutions but approximations, and so they would commonly use linear interpolation to approximate intermediate values.[7] One of the most famous tablets is the Plimpton 322 tablet, created around 1600 - 1900 B.C., which gives a table of Pythagorean triples and represents some of the most advanced mathematics prior to Greek mathematics.[8]
    Babylonian algebra was much more advanced than the Egyptian algebra of the time; whereas the Egyptians were mainly concerned with linear equations the Babylonians were more concerned with quadratic and cubic equations.[7] The Babylonians had developed flexible algebraic operations with which they were able to add equals to equals and multiply both sides of an equation by like quantities so as to eliminate fractions and factors.[7] They were familiar with many simple forms of factoring,[7] three-term quadratic equations with positive roots,[9] and many cubic equations[10] although it is not known if they were able to reduce the general cubic equation.[10]


    Oil Painting which originated in Pre Islamic Afghanistan, long before Afghanistan was beseiged with jihadis who hate images, it produced marvellous paintings of Buddha, which still remain as testament to their pre Islamic faith & its achievements.

    Oil Painting didn't originate in Renaissance Europe, but in Afghanistan:

    Quote from: abc.net
    Forget Renaissance Europe. The world's first oil paintings go back nearly 14 centuries to murals in Afghanistan's Bamiyan caves, a Japanese researcher says.
    Buddhist images painted in the central Afghan region, dated to around 650 AD, are the earliest examples of oil used in art history, says Yoko Taniguchi, an expert at Japan's National Research Institute for Cultural Properties.


    A group of Japanese, European and US scientists are collaborating to restore damaged murals in caves in the Bamiyan Valley, famous for its two gigantic statues of the Buddha which were destroyed by the Taliban in 2001.
    In the murals, thousands of Buddhas in vermilion robes sit cross-legged, sporting exquisitely knotted hair.
    Other motifs show crouching monkeys, men facing one another or palm leaves delicately intertwined with mythical creatures.
    The paintings incorporate a mix of Indian and Chinese influences, and are most likely to be the works of artists travelling on the Silk Road, which was the largest trade and cultural route connecting the East and the West.

    The Los Angeles-based Getty Conservation Institute analysed 53 samples extracted from the murals. Using gas chromatography methods, the researchers found that 19 had oil in the paint.
    "Different types of oil were used on the dirt walls with such a sophisticated technique that I felt I was looking right at a medieval board painting dating from 14th or 15th century Italy," Ms Taniguchi said.
    The discovery would reverse common perceptions about the origins of oil paintings.
    The technique is widely believed to have emerged in Europe leading into the Renaissance, which flowered from 1400 to 1600.

    Italian artist and architect Giorgio Vasari first wrote of oil painting in his book, The Lives of the Artists, in the mid-16th century.
    Art historians, however, argue that 15th-century Flemish painter Jan van Eyck may have known of the technique because he had developed a stable varnish, although he kept it secret until his death.
    "It was very impressive to discover that such advanced methods were used in murals in central Asia," Ms Taniguchi said.
    "My European colleagues were shocked because they always believed oil paintings were invented in Europe.
    "They couldn't believe such techniques could exist in some Buddhist cave deep in the countryside."
    Painters of the Buddhist murals used organic substances - including natural resin, plant gum, dry oil and animal protein - as a binder, which even today is an important element in paint.
    A binder keeps pigment particles together in a cohesive film and allows the paint to resist decay.
    The researchers are trying to restore the murals amid international efforts to salvage what is left of Bamiyan.
    The Taliban, ignoring global protests, dynamited the two 1,500-year-old statues, the world's biggest representations of the Buddha, in March 2001, branding them un-Islamic idolatry.



    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Pre Islamic Achievements of Islamic or Islam Ruled Societies
     Reply #15 - May 10, 2009, 11:12 AM

    Someone should try and dispel the myth of 'anything beginning with 'Al' is a muslim invention'. My dad told me that and he included algebra as one of the examples, I found that hard to believe though. There were incredible mathematicians before Islam and I'm sure they must have used algebra and look, the Babylonians used it! Roll Eyes
  • Re: Pre Islamic Achievements of Islamic or Islam Ruled Societies
     Reply #16 - May 10, 2009, 11:18 AM

    Someone should try and dispel the myth of 'anything beginning with 'Al' is a muslim invention'. My dad told me that and he included algebra as one of the examples, I found that hard to believe though. There were incredible mathematicians before Islam and I'm sure they must have used algebra and look, the Babylonians used it! Roll Eyes


    Its not that anything beginning with "al" is a muslim invention. There are obviously some things beginning with "al" which are Muslim inventions, but there are also some things beginning with "al" which simply found their way to Europe via Muslims, hence the name.

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Pre Islamic Achievements of Islamic or Islam Ruled Societies
     Reply #17 - May 10, 2009, 03:31 PM

    Pre-Islamic Iranians invented the game of Polo, and Persian Rugs.

    .
  • Re: Pre Islamic Achievements of Islamic or Islam Ruled Societies
     Reply #18 - May 10, 2009, 03:36 PM

    Someone should try and dispel the myth of 'anything beginning with 'Al' is a muslim invention'.

    Alcohol   Smiley

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  • Re: Pre Islamic Achievements of Islamic or Islam Ruled Societies
     Reply #19 - May 10, 2009, 05:43 PM

    Someone should try and dispel the myth of 'anything beginning with 'Al' is a muslim invention'. My dad told me that and he included algebra as one of the examples, ...

    Why didn't you reply with "I agree dad, Allah is another fine example."

    German ex-Muslim forumMy YouTubeList of Ex-Muslims
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    I'm on an indefinite break...
  • Re: Pre Islamic Achievements of Islamic or Islam Ruled Societies
     Reply #20 - May 10, 2009, 05:45 PM

    Someone should try and dispel the myth of 'anything beginning with 'Al' is a muslim invention'. My dad told me that and he included algebra as one of the examples, ...

    Why didn't you reply with "I agree dad, Allah is another fine example."

    Cheesy
  • Re: Pre Islamic Achievements of Islamic or Islam Ruled Societies
     Reply #21 - May 10, 2009, 05:47 PM

     Cheesy Cheesy

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Pre Islamic Achievements of Islamic or Islam Ruled Societies
     Reply #22 - May 11, 2009, 01:29 AM

    Thanks for that Rashna, I always thought soap was made by muslims (as my dad told me), turns out it was made much earlier. Makes me wonder else I've been lied to about now.

    Here is a great device to add to your list; I bring you the worlds first computer made by the Ancient Greeks- The Antikythera mechanism
    It's a brilliant peice of machinary which shows the orbits of the planets, the moon and our sun. It can be used to predict eclipses and such.

    I wonder what else has been lost from the Greek era.


    In fairness, they did come up with quite a few advancements during the Islamic era.  But I think it's more attributable to the fact that there was a solid, stable society that gave people the chance to do this stuff.  It wasn't anything inherent in Islam.

    Khawarizmi was the head of the house of greek translation. what happened to those books he translated? why is this translator all of a sudden capable of writing advanced mathematical concepts, yet no credit was given to the books and writers he translated from? Was is because the writers he translated from were refering to Zeus and Athena?


    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Pre Islamic Achievements of Islamic or Islam Ruled Societies
     Reply #23 - May 11, 2009, 01:55 AM

    Khawarizmi was the head of the house of greek translation. what happened to those books he translated? why is this translator all of a sudden capable of writing advanced mathematical concepts, yet no credit was given to the books and writers he translated from? Was is because the writers he translated from were refering to Zeus and Athena?

    I'm not sure al-Khwarizmi was a Muslim; Tabari refers to him as a Majusi i.e. a Zoroastrian, his name is also from the Zoroastrian Avesta. Khwar is the Avestan word for "glory" and Zam is the word for "earth" - i.e. Khwarizmi = "Glory of the Earth".

    Ditto the Physician Tabari (not the hadith writer).

    "It may happen that the enemies of Islam may consider it expedient not to take any action against Islam, if Islam leaves them alone in their geographical boundaries... But Islam cannot agree to this unless they submit to its authority by paying Jizyah"

    -Sayyid Qutb, Milestones
  • Re: Pre Islamic Achievements of Islamic or Islam Ruled Societies
     Reply #24 - May 11, 2009, 03:34 AM

    Someone should try and dispel the myth of 'anything beginning with 'Al' is a muslim invention'.

    Alcohol   Smiley

    Alzheimer's.  whistling2

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Pre Islamic Achievements of Islamic or Islam Ruled Societies
     Reply #25 - May 11, 2009, 03:43 AM

    Someone should try and dispel the myth of 'anything beginning with 'Al' is a muslim invention'.

    Alcohol   Smiley

    Actually...

    The current Arabic name for alcohol is الكحول al-ku7ūl, re-introduced from western usage, while the Classical Arabic word is الغول al-ġawl (e.g. sura 37:47), literally "spirit"


    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Pre Islamic Achievements of Islamic or Islam Ruled Societies
     Reply #26 - May 11, 2009, 05:05 AM

    Someone should try and dispel the myth of 'anything beginning with 'Al' is a muslim invention'.

    Alcohol   Smiley

    Alzheimer's.  whistling2

    Algae, algology, algorithm (since Khwarizmi wasn't a Muslim), alien, alimentary, aliquot, allegory, allure.

    "It may happen that the enemies of Islam may consider it expedient not to take any action against Islam, if Islam leaves them alone in their geographical boundaries... But Islam cannot agree to this unless they submit to its authority by paying Jizyah"

    -Sayyid Qutb, Milestones
  • Re: Pre Islamic Achievements of Islamic or Islam Ruled Societies
     Reply #27 - May 11, 2009, 05:14 AM

    Wha u mean Muhammad ibn Musa ibn Ja'far al-Khwarizmi wasn't a Musulman?

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Pre Islamic Achievements of Islamic or Islam Ruled Societies
     Reply #28 - May 11, 2009, 05:23 AM

    Just because the dude had an Islamic name it doesn't necessarily follow that he was a Muslim. I don't know if he was or not, but he could have been a heretic or a closet murtad.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Pre Islamic Achievements of Islamic or Islam Ruled Societies
     Reply #29 - May 11, 2009, 05:29 AM

    From WikiP:

    Another epithet given to him by al-Tabarī, "al-Majūsī," would seem to indicate that he was an adherent of the old Zoroastrian religion. This would still have been possible at that time for a man of Iranian origin, but the pious preface to al-Khwārizmī's Algebra shows that he was an orthodox Muslim, so al-Tabarī's epithet could mean no more than that his forebears, and perhaps he in his youth, had been Zoroastrians.[1]


    Al-Khwārizmī wrote several other works including a treatise on the Hebrew calendar...


    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
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