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Theme Changer

 Topic: "All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring..

 (Read 21003 times)
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  • Re: "All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring..
     Reply #60 - March 08, 2009, 09:09 AM

    Quote from: osmanthus
    Nope, that wasn't suggested at all. We were merely commenting on why we think humans have a strong desire for a belief system of any sort, and that they should be careful of what they believe and why they believe it.

    What I am asking is, why should we not strive to create our own meaning as Nietzsche saw fit, or try to expand into the universe instead of revelling in our insignificance? Why aren't we superior to other animals?

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: "All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring..
     Reply #61 - March 08, 2009, 09:36 AM

    Why aren't we superior to other animals?

    We are the most intelligent for sure, but some are stronger, others faster, others more populated - there is no single measure of superiority.
    Quote
    What I am asking is, why should we not strive to create our own meaning as Nietzsche saw fit, or try to expand into the universe instead of revelling in our insignificance?

    You can make up what you want, believe that the fairy at the back of your garden is protecting you and looking after your interests if it makes you happy. 

    However we are in search the truth.  Even if the truth presents uncomfortable conclusions, the answers will enable us to align ourselves to best fit the universe, rather than dieing after having barked up the wrong tree for the duration of our lives.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: "All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring..
     Reply #62 - March 08, 2009, 10:01 AM

    Quote from: IsLame
    We are the most intelligent for sure, but some are stronger, others faster, others more populated - there is no single measure of superiority.

    Through posthuman engineering we'll take care of that too, eventually.

    Quote from: IsLame
    You can make up what you want, believe that the fairy at the back of your garden is protecting you and looking after your interests if it makes you happy.

    Nope...  Roll Eyes

    I'm not saying we should create fictional gods and then worship them. We have to create goals for the progress of our civilisation, some Manifest Destiny if you wish. The post was very clear, and Nietzsche was an atheist at any rate. Don't be quick to jump to the conclusion "you are a theist idiot."

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: "All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring..
     Reply #63 - March 08, 2009, 10:55 AM

    I'll just point out that Nietzsche managed to do a nice job of driving himself insane, and consequently is maybe not the best example for inspiration.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: "All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring..
     Reply #64 - March 08, 2009, 11:23 AM

    Quote from: IsLame
    We are the most intelligent for sure, but some are stronger, others faster, others more populated - there is no single measure of superiority.

    Through posthuman engineering we'll take care of that too, eventually.

    In that case, you are probably right.  I just dont like the word superior I suppose.  Top of the pyramid is better for me.

    Quote from: IsLame
    You can make up what you want, believe that the fairy at the back of your garden is protecting you and looking after your interests if it makes you happy.

    Quote
    Nope...  Roll Eyes

    I'm not saying we should create fictional gods and then worship them. We have to create goals for the progress of our civilisation, some Manifest Destiny if you wish. The post was very clear, and Nietzsche was an atheist at any rate. Don't be quick to jump to the conclusion "you are a theist idiot."


    I never said you did or were - although werent you recently flirting with the idea of Zorastrianism or was that another member? 

    Just saying you are free to believe in what you like and quoted an example of how humans have the capacity of believing in things for their own sake, with little or nothing to do with the truth. 

    As far as I see, all the evidence seems to be pointing in the direction that was raised earlier.  Until we have anything else to go by, then I have to stick with that for now - I am sorry it does not sound more positive and inspirational to you, sadly it doesnt to me either but I have learned to accept it.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: "All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring..
     Reply #65 - March 08, 2009, 01:11 PM

    Quote from: osmanthus
    I'll just point out that Nietzsche managed to do a nice job of driving himself insane, and consequently is maybe not the best example for inspiration.

    You may have a point here.  grin12

    Quote from: IsLame
    I never said you did or were - although werent you recently flirting with the idea of Zorastrianism or was that another member?

    Yes, I also remember saying that my sympathy derives from Zoroastrians being a persecuted and brilliant minority, not Zoroastrianism being any kind of ultimate truth. Thank you for representing my views incorrectly.

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: "All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring..
     Reply #66 - March 08, 2009, 01:26 PM

    Representing your views incorrectly? I said you were flirting with zorastrianism..

    I may even convert to the Zoroastrian religion in the future, perhaps.


    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: "All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring..
     Reply #67 - March 08, 2009, 01:52 PM

    Quote from: Zaephon
    Yes, I also remember saying that my sympathy derives from Zoroastrians being a persecuted and brilliant minority, not Zoroastrianism being any kind of ultimate truth.

     Roll Eyes

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: "All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring..
     Reply #68 - March 08, 2009, 02:04 PM

    Which is my point, you are prepared to believe in things (e.g. Zorastrianism out of sympathy)  that you accept are not the truth.  I am not.

    I suggested your philosopical ideas were borne from something similar, and you suggested I was being disengenuous?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: "All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring..
     Reply #69 - March 08, 2009, 03:03 PM

    Women who find it simply OK that there are verses calling them inferior to men.

    This bit always confuses me. Why the fuck do some women swallow this bullshit? I mean not being one I find it completely baffling. You'd need your head examined if you fell for that one.


    It baffles me too - and why do they convert? I have met more women converts than men converts? What's up with that?


    Don't women tend to be more religious than men? I've heard of churches in diff. denominations where the pews are filled with women, less so with men. 

    Quote
    It's easy to call them dumb, ignorant etc etc... but they can't all be. They must see something they like?


    Yeah, it's called dawahganda, the lying bullshit tripe that Muslims pass on to non Muslims, making the religion seem like pretty much the complete 180 opposite of what it really is, what it really teaches. 

    Quote
    My general opinion of converts is they are people who are dissatisfied with the society around them or are alientated in some way.


    I disagree with this, but am tired of trying to challenge Muslims (and now ex Muslims) views of converts to Islam. (LOL, even out of Islam, those who converted will never been seen on equal ground with 'cradle Muslims.') 'Oh just for marriage!' 'Some horrific life trauma!' 'They're all mentally ill.' 'They dislike being part of the dominant white paradigm and are looking to shed their white privilege and identity'. (Yes I hear that last one a LOT). I think it is just interesting that most converts leave Islam. Anecdotally, it seems like most of these converts leave within the first year - perhaps upon finding out that Muslims lied to them about what the religion really teaches, and what that Q&S really says?  Perhaps upon discovering that all that talk about the 'brotherhood of the umma' is total bullshit and that converts are almost never accepted as equals, especially if you're a woman, Latino/a, or black...

    Quote
    Here is a video I aw recently about Hispanics in the USA


    'They convert because they are used to conservative patriarchal culture!' Tu sabes?  I really detest the Latino/a (mostly LatinA) fetish the Muslims in the US have. 

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wny05Dhkyqs
    [/quote]

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: "All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring..
     Reply #70 - March 08, 2009, 04:05 PM

    My general opinion of converts is they are people who are dissatisfied with the society around them or are alientated in some way.


    I disagree with this, but am tired of trying to challenge Muslims (and now ex Muslims) views of converts to Islam. (LOL, even out of Islam, those who converted will never been seen on equal ground with 'cradle Muslims.') 'Oh just for marriage!' 'Some horrific life trauma!' 'They're all mentally ill.' 'They dislike being part of the dominant white paradigm and are looking to shed their white privilege and identity'. (Yes I hear that last one a LOT).


    Fair, point, Fading.

    Though most converts I knew were held in very high esteem - and in fact were probably placed on a bit of a pedestal by many Muslims - particularly those who had an inferiority complex left over from British colonialism that the White Englishman was in some way superior and the fact that they would convert to Islam was proof that Islam must be true. Some converts also loved the attention they got as a result.
  • Re: "All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring..
     Reply #71 - March 08, 2009, 04:14 PM

    Though most converts I knew were held in very high esteem - and in fact were probably placed on a bit of a pedestal by many Muslims - particularly those who had an inferiority complex left over from British colonialism that the White Englishman was in some way superior and the fact that they would convert to Islam was proof that Islam must be true. Some converts also loved the attention they got as a result.


     Afro Hassan! From my experience, Muslims adore converts, especially the Whites, for them it affirms that their faith is a worthy one, if a White first world nation person thinks their faith is good, it must be so. They also adore female converts, it proves to the world that its a misconception that Islam's a misogynistic faith-they at least strive to present the best of their faith to these female newcomers.

    White female convert? Summum bonum!

    For those who haven't shed off their colonial inferiority complexes, the White man's approval really counts, even in matters of their faith, even if they're otherwise quite secure in their faith.

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: "All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring..
     Reply #72 - March 08, 2009, 08:16 PM

    White man -  You dont include East Europeans, Russians etc in this assumption do you?  I think you mean anyone who belongs to First World countries.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: "All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring..
     Reply #73 - March 09, 2009, 04:52 AM

    Perfect summary of the root cause of human suffering.
    We want meaning where there is no meaning, in a universe that's bigger than we can imagine, we are so insignificant. I find beauty in that, unmatched by any man made religion or god.

    So, should we live our limited lifespan as the human species, then silently die in a pacifistic and stagnant society, because we are afraid of being cruel and anthropomorphic? No forward drive? No will to power, no desire to evolve, lest we deify something?


    A few things... why do you think a "pacifist society" is equal to a stagnant society?

    As for being afraid of being cruel, if you believe that you are a superior creation, are you prepared for the moral responsibility of being in charge of those you consider inferior? If your younger siblings were left in your care and depended on you, would you forego all concern for their safety? If one of your friends started abusing one of them, would you ignore it?

    I've read Nietzsche and Ayn Rand too. And, like osmanthus pointed out, Nietzsche drove himself insane and Ayn Rand is hardly anyone's role model who's past the age of 22.

    Forward drive... sure, have it all, go for it, excel in whatever you want to do. I never said anything against that.

    As for will to power, the wisest tend to say that true power is power over one's self, not over anything or anyone outside.

    Ultimately, I will die, you will die, everyone you and I know will die. Transhumanism assumes that being human is the ultimate goal of a self-organizing universe. That's a mighty assumption in light of humanity's and earth's insignificance. It's based on the same fear of our own death that all religions are based on. Until we accept our own impending death, we are slaves to our fear of it and will latch on to any philosophy that promises us an "out".

    Quote
    why should we not strive to create our own meaning as Nietzsche saw fit, or try to expand into the universe instead of revelling in our insignificance? Why aren't we superior to other animals?


    In all earnestness, I ask you: Why should we strive to create our own meaning? Why should we expand into the universe? Why are we superior to other animals?

    Just because we want to see it that way?


    BTW, Zaephon, know that I respect your opinions and am not out to offend you personally. Just really curious to gain a deeper understanding of your P.O.V.
     victory

    {edited to add} I know you didn't mention Rand, I did. Just wanted to get that out of the way. And for anyone interested, here is an excellent resource site for critiques of Libertarianism, which is what Transhumanism/Objectivism translate into in the political arena.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: "All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring..
     Reply #74 - March 09, 2009, 05:27 AM

     On the issue of why  so many women not only put up with ,but actually seem to be attracted to ,a doctrine that devalues them - that's one of the things that baffles me . Sad to say I think there are a lot of women out there who really don't want the hassle of having to take responsibility for their own lives and will put up with a lot of shit in return for being 'looked after '- even when that entails the odd slap  or being told you're only worth half a man .
     I find it even more bizarre that modern women take this attitude .Someone earlier blamed our ancestors but I think that's unfair - previous generations of women had things much harder than us . I think people underestimate the impact of reliable , accessible birth control , possibly more than any political advance this has given us a degree of control over our own lives . Women in the past were constrained by the need to find a father / provider for children that didn't always arrive at a convenient time  , and I think an innate desire to protect the family has a lot to do with the historical tendency for women to be more conservative .
      But I have no clue what motivates nutjobs like Yvonne 'Revert' Ridley...
  • Re: "All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring..
     Reply #75 - March 09, 2009, 11:22 PM

    I'll eventually reply Allat.

    I'm planning to create a new thread for it, I've grown very fond of creating new threads recently.

     Thread sneaker

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: "All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring..
     Reply #76 - March 11, 2009, 02:46 PM

    Origin of? Why not evolve in a different direction? Why this one?

    Study our history?

    I'm quite pissed off that we didn't evolve from asexual animals. That would solve so many problems. Or at least from an animals where rape is impossible. It's quite shit that females are the only gender that do not require consent in order to participate in sex in humans.

    What would you do if you were a land mollusc, Eh? you'd have to stick a CaCo3 dagger into your mate, by way of foreplay, as they're sticking one into you. That would turn you both on apparently. Talk about consent - tell it to the snails.
     
    But then again, they are only bi-sexual, not asexual. Before that of course, a long time before that, everything was asexual. There are some parthenogenic orgs today still that can reproduce when conditions favour it, like female greenfly who pod off yet more females, but eventually they need the benefits of genetic diversity and mate to get fertilised.
    Anyway, think yourself lucky you're not a male of  one of any number of spider species. First you have to sidle up, apologetically, to your intended and tap her gently to see if she's awake and not hungry. If she's in a good mood she might let you think you're Mr wonderful, but as soon as you've done the business, she kills you and eats you. Now that's hardly fair, is it?

    Cheesy

    Sex does indeed suck for some other species. I'm think a-sexuality is the way to go :yep:
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