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Theme Changer

 Topic: Hierarchy of Welcomehood

 (Read 9477 times)
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  • Re: Hierarchy of Welcomehood
     Reply #30 - February 09, 2009, 01:03 PM

    I'm not even sure integration is that important on the grand scale of things. Of course it's preferable that people integrate but I'm not sure a lack of integration is at the root of our problems.

    The Chinese community are very insular and there are many Chinese who don't learn the language but their community is not wracked by feelings of superiority, humiliation and victimhood. Also young Chinese men don't tend to have a culture of aggressive machismo. Hence the Chinese community don't have many conflicts and has become a thriving success.


    You are only looking at all these communities from one aspect - however if you take the Chinese community as an example, how much more successfully have they assimilated compared to those other groups you mentioned?  Do you see them in the media or politics (which the others seem to have done).  Just because they don't offend you, it does not mean they have necessarily successfully integrated?

    I think we can all learn from this group as well as all the other cultures, once we have a meeting of minds and we are all on the same track i.e. one where we all wish the best for the long term development of this society, and the next.


    That was my whole point, they haven't successfully integrated yet they are still a successful community with relatively few problems.

    By the way I'm talking about the causes of community problems not what offends me personally.
  • Re: Hierarchy of Welcomehood
     Reply #31 - February 09, 2009, 01:19 PM

    Yes you do have a point there with the Chinese. But to be fair, although they have remained very insular as a group they have extended tentacles out to society sharing their culture in a very humble way. Like martial arts, food, even feng shui. And I think they are respected for that. They do not condemn the host culture.

    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Hierarchy of Welcomehood
     Reply #32 - February 09, 2009, 01:34 PM

    Yes you do have a point there with the Chinese. But to be fair, although they have remained very insular as a group they have extended tentacles out to society sharing their culture in a very humble way. Like martial arts, food, even feng shui. And I think they are respected for that. They do not condemn the host culture.

    They do just like everyone else, but just behind closed doors..

    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: Hierarchy of Welcomehood
     Reply #33 - February 09, 2009, 02:00 PM

    I do believe immigrants now have to do a test on 'Britishness' as part of their application for residency.

    One of the problems with immigrants is unwillingness to integrate. The setting up of communities in certain areas that have little interaction with the wider societies causes conflict and resentment. Especially when distorted reports of they getting preferential treatment is reported nationally.

    I have no problem with people keeping their culture and beliefs, but really it should be personal and not affect association with other communities if they are not keen on it.

    When you come to this country, you should come to accept the culture here also and fit it in with yours, not condemn the host's culture as evil. You must accept that your children will eventually assimilate, and not chastise them when they do. If your major concern is adhering to your religion and culture to a T then you should not expect life to be easy in a foreign land.




    I think you have been brain washed by the right-wingers. Why is not wanting to integrate a problem? This is an argument at racist use all the time. And who is condemning the host's culture as evil? Are you talking about Muslims? This maybe true of a small minority of people from a Muslim background not true of the majority of immigrants. Would you say the Hindus, Nigerians, West Indians or even eastern Europeans are "condemning the host's culture as evil"? You've taken the experience from a small minority and tarred everyone with it. The majority of immigrants , I your words, "accept the culture here". The question is do the people accept them?

    Before people completely "assimilate" and abandon their culture lets take a lesson from history.

    Race Riot of 1919

    Many men from the empire were invited to work here during the war. Many fought in the war and had medals. After the war their employers and soldiers turned on them because they were no longer needed.

    May 1919, The Times, reports

    Large crowds assembled outside the Strangers home for Asiatic seamen in West India Dock Road and attacking any man that dared come out. The police and governments solution was to try forced repatriation.

    Sir Hari Singh Gour

    In 1941 he was refused accommodation in a west end hotel because they objected to coloured men. The government tried to suppress the story as they were recruiting thousands of Indian men to fight for them.

    It doesn't matter how integrated one becomes if some objects to the colour of your skin. In our times it has become unacceptable to say you don't like someone because of their skin colour so the racist will find other reason to attack the immigrant.

    So beware of the people who say it's because people don't want to integrate.

    Beware of the people who say immigrants are getting preferential treatment

    Beware of the people who say immigrants are taking their jobs.

    Beware of the people who say there is too much political correctness.



    Before you attack the immigrant please consider how welcoming people really are to immigrants.

    oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, this is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!"
  • Re: Hierarchy of Welcomehood
     Reply #34 - February 10, 2009, 12:17 PM

    Quote from: A_G
    Beware of the people who say there is too much political correctness.

    Beware of people who say stoning is the one thing Muslims got right.

    Sorry, I couldn't resist.

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: Hierarchy of Welcomehood
     Reply #35 - February 10, 2009, 01:53 PM

    I do believe immigrants now have to do a test on 'Britishness' as part of their application for residency.

    One of the problems with immigrants is unwillingness to integrate. The setting up of communities in certain areas that have little interaction with the wider societies causes conflict and resentment. Especially when distorted reports of they getting preferential treatment is reported nationally.

    I have no problem with people keeping their culture and beliefs, but really it should be personal and not affect association with other communities if they are not keen on it.

    When you come to this country, you should come to accept the culture here also and fit it in with yours, not condemn the host's culture as evil. You must accept that your children will eventually assimilate, and not chastise them when they do. If your major concern is adhering to your religion and culture to a T then you should not expect life to be easy in a foreign land.




    I think you have been brain washed by the right-wingers. Why is not wanting to integrate a problem? This is an argument at racist use all the time. And who is condemning the host's culture as evil? Are you talking about Muslims? This maybe true of a small minority of people from a Muslim background not true of the majority of immigrants. Would you say the Hindus, Nigerians, West Indians or even eastern Europeans are "condemning the host's culture as evil"? You've taken the experience from a small minority and tarred everyone with it. The majority of immigrants , I your words, "accept the culture here". The question is do the people accept them?

    Before people completely "assimilate" and abandon their culture lets take a lesson from history.

    Race Riot of 1919

    Many men from the empire were invited to work here during the war. Many fought in the war and had medals. After the war their employers and soldiers turned on them because they were no longer needed.

    May 1919, The Times, reports

    Large crowds assembled outside the Strangers home for Asiatic seamen in West India Dock Road and attacking any man that dared come out. The police and governments solution was to try forced repatriation.

    Sir Hari Singh Gour

    In 1941 he was refused accommodation in a west end hotel because they objected to coloured men. The government tried to suppress the story as they were recruiting thousands of Indian men to fight for them.

    It doesn't matter how integrated one becomes if some objects to the colour of your skin. In our times it has become unacceptable to say you don't like someone because of their skin colour so the racist will find other reason to attack the immigrant.

    So beware of the people who say it's because people don't want to integrate.

    Beware of the people who say immigrants are getting preferential treatment

    Beware of the people who say immigrants are taking their jobs.

    Beware of the people who say there is too much political correctness.



    Before you attack the immigrant please consider how welcoming people really are to immigrants.



    The Left  and people like Jonathan Harker are condemning the host culture and you posted his article with out criticising it so I suppose you agree.

    Not wanting to integrate is a problem, it's not a massive problem like the Daily Mail makes out but of course it's not good.

    A_G you are lost in paranoia and the madness of the Left, like a McCarthyite seeing commies under his bed you see racism and right wing oppression behind every comment.

    People like you use the doctrine of the politically correct like a battering ram to close down debate and demonise anyone who says things you don't like.

    The fact that you had to search for historical examples of racist mobs and open discrimination (1919 and 1941) should tell you something about how Britain has changed for the better.

    Why didn't you just remind us of the regular murderous rage of the white racists that spills out on to our streets today? Oh yeh because it's not happening is it.

    There is not an oppressive right wing state and the population isn't a seething mob of racist nutters.

    Britain is a liberal democracy with a liberal politicians and a pretty tolerant multi racial society.

    Get over it try not to stereo type British people and don't throw the accusation of racism around without a bloody good reason.

     thnkyu

    I could give you numerous historical examples of pogroms in the Arab world, serious sectarian riots in India and tribal/racial genocide in Africa that are still happening to this day but I doubt you would allow me to use these examples to accuse the people of these countries of being racist oppressors.

    I suppose you think the problems in these countries are all caused by European imperialism anyway.

    There really is no balance on the Left.

    Beware of those who use accuse people of racism at every opportunity.
  • Re: Hierarchy of Welcomehood
     Reply #36 - February 10, 2009, 02:18 PM

    Beware of people who put those who disagree with their warped beliefs on ignore.

    *twitch*
  • Re: Hierarchy of Welcomehood
     Reply #37 - February 10, 2009, 04:51 PM

    Beware of those who accuse others of having an offensive e-mail address.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Hierarchy of Welcomehood
     Reply #38 - February 11, 2009, 01:17 AM

    I notice A_G pops up, posts things like Jonathon Harkers bile or Yvonne Ridleys defence of the veil then accuses the people who criticises the articles he posts of either being racist or misogynistic then disappears without actually addressing any of the points made.

    I think that political correctness is a sham and that we need an honest debate about immigration which isn't stifled by PC police like him and he pops up without actually addressing my points on immigration and the PC Left just to imply I'm a racist right winger.

    He basically posted some historical examples of racist mobs in England and warned us that people like me who don't tip toe around the problems of immigration as being the tip of a hidden Nazi iceberg waiting to commit genocide on the streets of Britain.

    It's happened before and he has the historical proof. Cheesy 

    Views like mine are obviously dangerous so rather than debate my points he just says "Beware the one who criticises the politically correct" and implies that we are some kind of vanguard of hate.

    "Beware those who don't put immigrants beyond criticism and refuse to blame their problems on white racism"

    We are obviously the very same white oppressors just placing the blame on our victims. Cheesy

    The PC police are terrified of open debate and wracked with fear about ideas that conflict with their view that the world is basically a holy battle between white racists and misogynists in the liberal democracies and their brown victims worldwide.

    If someone challenges their view of the world they must fall into the camp of racist right wing oppressor and the debate must be closed down with loud condemnations of "RACIST" "RACIST" "NEOCON" "RAPIST" "CHILDKILLER"

    I notice the one on one debate section of this forum is eerily quiet. Well lets liven it up a bit. If I am wrong about you PC lot I challenge you to debate me A_G

    I would like to debate you on three different topics. Not sure where to start.

    Either on whether Britain is a racist society whose troubled immigrants are suffering from oppression or whether PC is a good thing or not.

    Finally I would like to have a serious debate about immigration but I know this is the one most likely to get you running screaming from the room with denunciations of Nazi so we will leave it till last.

    Get back to me and prove you Politically Correct liberals really are liberal about differing views. Wink 
  • Re: Hierarchy of Welcomehood
     Reply #39 - February 11, 2009, 01:30 AM

    C'mon A_G, be a man, or at least something that passes as one, and accept his challenge  grin12
  • Re: Hierarchy of Welcomehood
     Reply #40 - February 11, 2009, 02:31 AM

    Ah, a PC world. It reminded me of this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PPD9eaRKCU

     Cheesy
  • Re: Hierarchy of Welcomehood
     Reply #41 - February 11, 2009, 08:31 AM

    Buster I think that video is racist as it promotes stereo types of angry black males then turns legitimate grievances into a joke. Also the studio laughter was aimed at him probably because of the colour of his skin, they were not laughing with him.

    It really is an insensitive and potentially highly offensive video. Please take it down or the committee will have to take disciplinary action against you for racist and offensive behavior. You could lose your job, you will most certainly be suspended from this forum and you will definitely be ostracised from society as a racist bigot.

    I suggest you apologise now before we take action.

    Yours sincerely

    Totalitarian Left Wing Twat, who's heart is probably in the right place but has lost all grip on reality and wont tolerate dissenting views. 
  • Re: Hierarchy of Welcomehood
     Reply #42 - February 11, 2009, 10:07 AM


    Either on whether Britain is a racist society whose troubled immigrants are suffering from oppression or whether PC is a good thing or not.

    Finally I would like to have a serious debate about immigration but I know this is the one most likely to get you running screaming from the room with denunciations of Nazi so we will leave it till last.

    Get back to me and prove you Politically Correct liberals really are liberal about differing views. Wink 


    Interested to see which way you see yourself leaning?  Right, left or centrist - from your posts is sounds like totalitarian left?

    In any case I see myself as a a left of centre liberal, can you provide more meat on the bone for the 3rd issue re. "immigration & denunciations of Nazi"  you would like to debate? 

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hierarchy of Welcomehood
     Reply #43 - February 11, 2009, 10:14 AM

    Talking about non-pc, anyone see that documentary in the UK last night where they were showing blacks in the US had a 10-20 points lower average IQ than the rest of the population?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hierarchy of Welcomehood
     Reply #44 - February 11, 2009, 10:35 AM

    Talking about non-pc, anyone see that documentary in the UK last night where they were showing blacks in the US had a 10-20 points lower average IQ than the rest of the population?


    You are pulling our legs, surely  Huh?  That IQ bollocks was debunked ages ago, which channel put that out?

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Hierarchy of Welcomehood
     Reply #45 - February 11, 2009, 10:37 AM

    Talking about non-pc, anyone see that documentary in the UK last night where they were showing blacks in the US had a 10-20 points lower average IQ than the rest of the population?


    You are pulling our legs, surely  Huh?  That IQ bollocks was debunked ages ago, which channel put that out?


    Dunno, I only caught part of it..

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hierarchy of Welcomehood
     Reply #46 - February 11, 2009, 01:49 PM


    Either on whether Britain is a racist society whose troubled immigrants are suffering from oppression or whether PC is a good thing or not.

    Finally I would like to have a serious debate about immigration but I know this is the one most likely to get you running screaming from the room with denunciations of Nazi so we will leave it till last.

    Get back to me and prove you Politically Correct liberals really are liberal about differing views. Wink 


    Interested to see which way you see yourself leaning?  Right, left or centrist - from your posts is sounds like totalitarian left?

    In any case I see myself as a a left of centre liberal, can you provide more meat on the bone for the 3rd issue re. "immigration & denunciations of Nazi"  you would like to debate? 


    On immigration I would say I'm centre Left. Infact on most things I'm centre Left. The economy and foreign policy included.

    As for what would get a PC monster like A_G to denounce me as a Nazi?

    Criticising absolutely anyone who isn't hideously white would probably do it.

    The fact that I can use the term "Hideously white" without raising any hackles is a perfect example of the hypocrisy of the PC police. They don't care about equality for all and not offending people they care about controlling the debate and censoring people they see as the imperial oppressors. Hideously white is ok because it is against the oppressive classes.

    Immigration is a difficult one and I don't know of any serious policies because the debate isn't being had.

    For me it's clear that New Labour have made a shambles out of our immigration policy and we can't go on like this. Geert Wilders is a nutter and I want no part of his ideas but there certainly needs to be some changes.

    The thing is we need to have an open debate where even people with really draconian ideas are allowed to air their views without shrill Lefties shouting them down and calling them racists.

    You would be suprised at how many black people I know who feel disenchanted with the boom in immigration. In the past the orthodoxy was if anyone questions liberal immigration policies or talks about a certain minority in anything but glowing terms they are to be denounced as a Nazi but that is undoubtedly unfair.

    The Cockney granny who survived the war and now lives as a stranger in someone elses community is not necessarily a racist if she dislikes being the minority. Feeling alienated in your twilight years must be a terrible thing. These people are legitimate voices.

    The debate needs to be had without hysterical Lefties shutting down the conversation every five minutes with a self righteous tirade against anyone with a different view.
     
  • Re: Hierarchy of Welcomehood
     Reply #47 - February 11, 2009, 01:50 PM

    Buster I think that video is racist as it promotes stereo types of angry black males then turns legitimate grievances into a joke. Also the studio laughter was aimed at him probably because of the colour of his skin, they were not laughing with him.

    It really is an insensitive and potentially highly offensive video. Please take it down or the committee will have to take disciplinary action against you for racist and offensive behavior. You could lose your job, you will most certainly be suspended from this forum and you will definitely be ostracised from society as a racist bigot.

    I suggest you apologise now before we take action.

    Yours sincerely

    Totalitarian Left Wing Twat, who's heart is probably in the right place but has lost all grip on reality and wont tolerate dissenting views. 


    That sounds like a certain forumer I know, should he suddenly be blessed with about 40 previously missing IQ points  Cheesy
  • Re: Hierarchy of Welcomehood
     Reply #48 - February 11, 2009, 11:54 PM

    I guess he doesn't fancy a debate then.

    Tumbleweeds..... grin12
  • Re: Hierarchy of Welcomehood
     Reply #49 - February 12, 2009, 12:15 AM

    I'm guessing not  yes

    It's like a big game of whack-a-mole with him. He pops from thread to thread making accusations which he has no intention of backing up.
  • Re: Hierarchy of Welcomehood
     Reply #50 - February 12, 2009, 12:20 AM

    It's like a big game of whack-a-mole with him. He pops from thread to thread making accusations which he has no intention of backing up.

     Cheesy

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hierarchy of Welcomehood
     Reply #51 - February 12, 2009, 01:33 AM

    I notice A_G pops up, posts things like Jonathon Harkers bile or Yvonne Ridleys defence of the veil then accuses the people who criticises the articles he posts of either being racist or misogynistic then disappears without actually addressing any of the points made.

    It is partly a british thing, partly a bit of neo-modernism. All opinions are given the same weight regardless of proof. Everyone can say something and walk away. And why not, if every opinion is valued just as much as another, why bother standing and defending your opinion. Even the news today are just opinions being aired. No investigations, no facts, no comparative reporting.

    In most parts of the world, in RL if you make an accusation for no cause you can get the crap beaten out of you. But somehow, in neo-modern cultures, and Britain is most guilty of this, you can accuse someone with absolutely no basis and still get your voice counted.


    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Hierarchy of Welcomehood
     Reply #52 - February 12, 2009, 01:35 AM

    I'm guessing not  yes

    It's like a big game of whack-a-mole with him. He pops from thread to thread making accusations which he has no intention of backing up.


    How can we believe anything you say when you post racist videos and have an aggressive looking rottweiler as your avatar.

    Everything points to you being a fascist. I know your sort.

    Now you post a comment comparing another forum member to a small 'brown' furry animal.

    This is the last straw.

    I take this to be not only a racist jibe at our fellow forum member but a racist jibe at all black and Asian people worldwide. You must not compare oppressed people to small brown blind furry creatures that live in the dirt.

    You disgust me.

    The committee will now move to have you sacked from your job, suspended from this forum and ostracised from polite society.

    Yours sincerely

    Miles Torquil-Urqhart Stewart.

    The Head of the Student Union (UCAS), Anti Vivisection Movement (AVM), Anti Fascist Campaign (AFC), Anti Racist Association (ARA) and the We Hate Jews and Fat Yanks Assoc (WHJFYA) and the Concerned Islington Vegans Against McDonalds Campaign (CIVAMC)
  • Re: Hierarchy of Welcomehood
     Reply #53 - February 12, 2009, 01:38 AM

    I notice A_G pops up, posts things like Jonathon Harkers bile or Yvonne Ridleys defence of the veil then accuses the people who criticises the articles he posts of either being racist or misogynistic then disappears without actually addressing any of the points made.

    It is partly a british thing, partly a bit of neo-modernism. All opinions are given the same weight regardless of proof. Everyone can say something and walk away. And why not, if every opinion is valued just as much as another, why bother standing and defending your opinion. Even the news today are just opinions being aired. No investigations, no facts, no comparative reporting.

    In most parts of the world, in RL if you make an accusation for no cause you can get the crap beaten out of you. But somehow, in neo-modern cultures, and Britain is most guilty of this, you can accuse someone with absolutely no basis and still get your voice counted.




    Recently Baal I have found your posts too tainted by your hate of Islam but this is a very clear diagnosis of one of the problems that the West is afflicted with.
  • Re: Hierarchy of Welcomehood
     Reply #54 - February 12, 2009, 01:53 AM

    I'm guessing not  yes

    It's like a big game of whack-a-mole with him. He pops from thread to thread making accusations which he has no intention of backing up.


    How can we believe anything you say when you post racist videos and have an aggressive looking rottweiler as your avatar.

    Everything points to you being a fascist. I know your sort.

    Now you post a comment comparing another forum member to a small 'brown' furry animal.

    This is the last straw.

    I take this to be not only a racist jibe at our fellow forum member but a racist jibe at all black and Asian people worldwide. You must not compare oppressed people to small brown blind furry creatures that live in the dirt.

    You disgust me.

    The committee will now move to have you sacked from your job, suspended from this forum and ostracised from polite society.

    Yours sincerely

    Miles Torquil-Urqhart Stewart.

    The Head of the Student Union (UCAS), Anti Vivisection Movement (AVM), Anti Fascist Campaign (AFC), Anti Racist Association (ARA) and the We Hate Jews and Fat Yanks Assoc (WHJFYA) and the Concerned Islington Vegans Against McDonalds Campaign (CIVAMC)


    You forgot my offensive email address. Don't forget that  Cheesy
  • Re: Hierarchy of Welcomehood
     Reply #55 - February 12, 2009, 04:23 AM

    I notice A_G pops up, posts things like Jonathon Harkers bile or Yvonne Ridleys defence of the veil then accuses the people who criticises the articles he posts of either being racist or misogynistic then disappears without actually addressing any of the points made.

    It is partly a british thing, partly a bit of neo-modernism. All opinions are given the same weight regardless of proof. Everyone can say something and walk away. And why not, if every opinion is valued just as much as another, why bother standing and defending your opinion. Even the news today are just opinions being aired. No investigations, no facts, no comparative reporting.

    In most parts of the world, in RL if you make an accusation for no cause you can get the crap beaten out of you. But somehow, in neo-modern cultures, and Britain is most guilty of this, you can accuse someone with absolutely no basis and still get your voice counted.




    Recently Baal I have found your posts too tainted by your hate of Islam but this is a very clear diagnosis of one of the problems that the West is afflicted with.

    Of course having some posts tainted with some 'hate of islam', does not negate that those few posts were a clear disgnosis as well.

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
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