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 Topic: Scientific evidence AGAINST Islam

 (Read 15800 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Scientific evidence AGAINST Islam
     OP - January 01, 2009, 02:14 AM

    We know that drinking a glass of wine a day is good for health reasons. So why would Allah ban wine? Is he trying to give us heart disease?

    I'm going to try this tactic next time someone uses the honey argument on me.

    Though it has no bridge,
    The cloud climbs up to heaven;
    It does not seek the aid
    Of Gautama's sutras.

    - Ikkyu
  • Re: Scientific evidence AGAINST Islam
     Reply #1 - January 01, 2009, 02:21 AM

    what about it being bad for your liver? or killing brain cells? that was most burned into my brain at my american public high school...

    or alcoholism.

    getting addicted to honey will make you look like pooh bear at the worst.

    the ayah banning alcohol also mentions there are benefits to it, but adds that it's harms outweigh them.

    Quote from: Al-Baqarah 2:219
    They ask you (O Muhammad) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling. Say, "In them is a great sin, and (some) benefit for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit."...


    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Scientific evidence AGAINST Islam
     Reply #2 - January 01, 2009, 02:26 AM

    A glass of red wine a day isn't bad for your liver or your brain.  In fact it is, as Lana said, good for your heart.  So absolute teetotalism is just as damaging for your health as binge drinking. 

    Sadly, Allah didn't know that.  How strange for a creator of the human race not to know how our biology works.   wacko

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Scientific evidence AGAINST Islam
     Reply #3 - January 01, 2009, 02:54 AM

    Chcolate is bad for you in large quantities, as is fatty food....are there any verses or hadith against those?

  • Re: Scientific evidence AGAINST Islam
     Reply #4 - January 01, 2009, 02:55 AM

    Lol. I've never heard of anyone being addicted to honey, but that would be pretty funny.  Smiley

    But still, the most logical thing for Allah to do, measuring the dangers and benefits of alcohol is to ban binge-drinking, not alcohol altogether.

    Though it has no bridge,
    The cloud climbs up to heaven;
    It does not seek the aid
    Of Gautama's sutras.

    - Ikkyu
  • Re: Scientific evidence AGAINST Islam
     Reply #5 - January 01, 2009, 02:58 AM

    Chcolate is bad for you in large quantities, as is fatty food....are there any verses or hadith against those?




    Well of course, chocolate wasn't brought over from the Americas until much later, so Muhammad didn't know about it...

    ...or perhaps Allah knew that no one would ever follow a religion that bans chocolate!  Smiley

    Though it has no bridge,
    The cloud climbs up to heaven;
    It does not seek the aid
    Of Gautama's sutras.

    - Ikkyu
  • Re: Scientific evidence AGAINST Islam
     Reply #6 - January 01, 2009, 03:03 AM

    But still, the most logical thing for Allah to do, measuring the dangers and benefits of alcohol is to ban binge-drinking, not alcohol altogether.

     From what I read, the arabs were really hard binge drinkers back in jahiliyah. One of the companions was reciting Surah al-Kaafiroon in prayer while drunk and got it backwards, "I will not worship what I worship, and you will not worship what you worship" or "You will worship what I worship, and I will worship what you worship" or something like that Cheesy.

    ...or perhaps Allah knew that no one would ever follow a religion that bans chocolate!  Smiley


    I could find ways people would try to wrap their minds around that:

    "Chocolate is like a drug the way it affects your mind and makes you unnaturally happy, and can lead to obesity, which leads to death!"

    Remember, sex has been banned in religion before (or heavy conditions surrounded it), so someone would follow this chocolate thing if they believed in it. Cheesy

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Scientific evidence AGAINST Islam
     Reply #7 - January 01, 2009, 03:10 AM

    Just because someone no longer believes in Allah doesn't mean they should indulge in everything that was once a vice does it? 

    oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, this is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!"
  • Re: Scientific evidence AGAINST Islam
     Reply #8 - January 01, 2009, 03:13 AM

    Just because someone no longer believes in Allah doesn't mean they should indulge in everything that was once a vice does it? 


    If you want to, but why not? Who's to say it's a vice when there's no Judge? C'mon, everyone else is doing it...  Wink Don't you wanna sit at the cool table?

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Scientific evidence AGAINST Islam
     Reply #9 - January 01, 2009, 03:33 AM

    I've never sat at the cool table and don't ever want too.

    No faith doesn't equal no common sense. Some people practise incest and bestiality but that doesn't mean one should try it.

    Allah won't judge your actions, that is true, but what about yourself? I've never believed in god but I don't drink, don't smoke and don't take drug. A little self control isn't a bad thing is it? Maybe I'm just narrow minded?

    oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, this is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!"
  • Re: Scientific evidence AGAINST Islam
     Reply #10 - January 01, 2009, 03:41 AM

    I partly agree with you, but I play the devil's advocate.

    What does it matter if there's no God? A little drink won't kill you. How many great men (and women) have had drinks? Does that make them lesser human beings for having done so? Will a glass of wine kill you? It's not like alcohol automatically means you harm yourself and others. You could have fun with it. Get tipsy, sing karaoke Cheesy.

    What do you think of zina? Is it immoral to have a girl friend, or one night flings?

    And even if there was a God, do you think he will really be mad at you if you were generally a good person, but liked to party once in awhile?

    I'm not saying that because there is no God you should act like an animal who harms other people for your own pleasure, but why not do things that are fun that don't?

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Scientific evidence AGAINST Islam
     Reply #11 - January 01, 2009, 04:03 AM

    We know that drinking a glass of wine a day is good for health reasons. So why would Allah ban wine? Is he trying to give us heart disease?

    I'm going to try this tactic next time someone uses the honey argument on me.

    Honey is killing dozens of young people every year in the islamic world. Honey is a very heavy food. My uncles who are surgeons would like to see honey banned from the country (and they banned it in their hospitals) because of the damage it keeps doing to their patients. Post-op and diabetics are particularly vulnerable to this yellow unguent shit.


    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Scientific evidence AGAINST Islam
     Reply #12 - January 01, 2009, 07:54 AM

    Honey is killing dozens of young people every year in the islamic world.


     Shocked

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Scientific evidence AGAINST Islam
     Reply #13 - January 01, 2009, 12:24 PM

    We know that drinking a glass of wine a day is good for health reasons. So why would Allah ban wine? Is he trying to give us heart disease?

    I'm going to try this tactic next time someone uses the honey argument on me.

    Honey is killing dozens of young people every year in the islamic world. Honey is a very heavy food. My uncles who are surgeons would like to see honey banned from the country (and they banned it in their hospitals) because of the damage it keeps doing to their patients. Post-op and diabetics are particularly vulnerable to this yellow unguent shit.



    Oh, common sense purleese!  Alcohol and honey are both good for you in moderation.They're just sugars and are important foodstuffs if you have bugger all else; or if you want to use converted, preserved, storable forms of energy at a later date when other things are scarce.
    We didn't come up with alcohol just to have a good time you know.

    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Scientific evidence AGAINST Islam
     Reply #14 - January 01, 2009, 01:05 PM

    I've never sat at the cool table and don't ever want too.

    No faith doesn't equal no common sense. Some people practise incest and bestiality but that doesn't mean one should try it.

    Allah won't judge your actions, that is true, but what about yourself? I've never believed in god but I don't drink, don't smoke and don't take drug. A little self control isn't a bad thing is it?


    Not at all, I for one think it's up to people what they want to do, drink, don't drink, it's all personal and I certainly don't think less of someone who doesn't do those things.

    For me it's not about being at the cool table, you can still be cool without those things.

    Quote

     Maybe I'm just narrow minded?



    You would only be narrow minded if you were judging other people for their choices to drink, or smoke, which I hope you are not.  Wink

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Scientific evidence AGAINST Islam
     Reply #15 - January 01, 2009, 06:12 PM

    If you banned heavy drinking, and made a ruling only to drink in moderation, there's always that percentage of people who'll become alcoholics.  Alcoholism creeps up on you and has got you before you know it's even there.  Then you and your family and friends are in a world of shit.

  • Re: Scientific evidence AGAINST Islam
     Reply #16 - January 01, 2009, 06:20 PM

    Alcohol is the worst drug. Liver cirrhosis, ascites, oesophageal varices, faecal incontinence, cerebellar atrophy ... of course those are the extreme cases. Usually it involves being loud, obnoxious and violent and then wrapping your car around a light pole after spewing all over the windscreen.

    It's those non-European drugs that are the bad ones...

    The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
  • Re: Scientific evidence AGAINST Islam
     Reply #17 - January 01, 2009, 06:24 PM

    We know that drinking a glass of wine a day is good for health reasons. So why would Allah ban wine? Is he trying to give us heart disease?

    I'm going to try this tactic next time someone uses the honey argument on me.


    This is poor argument to use against Islam. When i was muslim and non-muslims said the alcohol "benefit" stuff to me, I would always retort that Allah had told us that there is "benefit in it". However the benefits risks outweigh the risks benefits ( eg alcoholism, liver disease and the fact the no-one really drinks in such a controlled fashion).


    Edited by request. parrot

    We are in favor of tolerance, but it is a very difficult thing to tolerate the intolerant and impossible to tolerate the intolerable.

    -George Dennison Prentice
  • Re: Scientific evidence AGAINST Islam
     Reply #18 - January 01, 2009, 06:39 PM

    Interestingly there is heavy medical debate as to whether alcohol really has the "benefits" we have been led to believe.

    The research , If I remember correctly, did not involve 2 groups of people, one who had always been teetotal and the other who only drank the mythical 1 glass of wine a day. The people in the study actually reported a wide range of alcohol consumption .

    The  people who were non-drinkers in the study tended to be  ex-alcoholics - who by definition to have probably had plenty of damage to their internal organs in the past - thus were more likely to die sooner.


    This is highly likely to have skewed the results and given us the impression that not drinking is more dangerous than drinking a little.

    We are in favor of tolerance, but it is a very difficult thing to tolerate the intolerant and impossible to tolerate the intolerable.

    -George Dennison Prentice
  • Re: Scientific evidence AGAINST Islam
     Reply #19 - January 01, 2009, 07:13 PM

    Drinking is good!
    If you're drinking bhang.

    The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
  • Re: Scientific evidence AGAINST Islam
     Reply #20 - January 01, 2009, 11:00 PM

    This is poor argument to use against Islam. When i was muslim and non-muslims said the alcohol "benefit" stuff to me, I would always retort that Allah had told us that there is "benefit in it". However the benefits outweigh the risks ( eg alcoholism, liver disease and the fact the no-one really drinks in such a controlled fashion).


    you said that backwards.

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Scientific evidence AGAINST Islam
     Reply #21 - January 01, 2009, 11:07 PM

    This is poor argument to use against Islam. When i was muslim and non-muslims said the alcohol "benefit" stuff to me, I would always retort that Allah had told us that there is "benefit in it". However the benefits outweigh the risks ( eg alcoholism, liver disease and the fact the no-one really drinks in such a controlled fashion).


    you said that backwards.



    I certainly did - edit coming right up

    We are in favor of tolerance, but it is a very difficult thing to tolerate the intolerant and impossible to tolerate the intolerable.

    -George Dennison Prentice
  • Re: Scientific evidence AGAINST Islam
     Reply #22 - January 01, 2009, 11:11 PM

    Hang on , it won't let me edit earlier posts now , only the last one posted . Somebody help me here?

    We are in favor of tolerance, but it is a very difficult thing to tolerate the intolerant and impossible to tolerate the intolerable.

    -George Dennison Prentice
  • Re: Scientific evidence AGAINST Islam
     Reply #23 - January 02, 2009, 12:09 AM

    It's a minor typo but I'll sort it for you. We lock editing after three hours in case of disputes about what was posted.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Scientific evidence AGAINST Islam
     Reply #24 - January 02, 2009, 12:15 AM

    It's a minor typo but I'll sort it for you. We lock editing after three hours in case of disputes about what was posted.


    Thanks , much appreciated

    We are in favor of tolerance, but it is a very difficult thing to tolerate the intolerant and impossible to tolerate the intolerable.

    -George Dennison Prentice
  • Re: Scientific evidence AGAINST Islam
     Reply #25 - January 02, 2009, 12:26 PM

    The greatest scientific evidence against the Quran would be evolution. That pretty much destroys the faith entirely.
  • Re: Scientific evidence AGAINST Islam
     Reply #26 - January 02, 2009, 12:49 PM

    The greatest scientific evidence against the Quran would be evolution. That pretty much destroys the faith entirely.

    Yeah but then there have always been Muslims who, like "moderate Christians" take the whole Adam & Eve thing as allegorical and they still have the sweetness of iman.

    Quote from: Allama Iqbal, 'The Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam', pp.83-85
    1. The Quran omits the serpent and the rib story altogether. The former omission is obviously meant to free the story from its Phallic setting and its original suggestion of a pessimistic view of life. The latter omission is meant to suggest that the purpose of the Quranic narration is not historical, as in the case of the Old Testament, which gives us an account of the origin of the first human pair by way of a prelude to the history of Israel. Indeed, in the verses which deal with the origin of man as a living being, the Quran uses the words 'Bashar', or 'Insan' not 'Adam', which it reserves for man in his capacity of God's vicegerent on earth. The purpose of the Quran is further secured by the omission of proper names mentioned in the Biblical narration - Adam and Eve. The word Adam is retained and used more as a concept than as the name of a concrete human individual. This use of the word is not without authority in the Quran itself. The following verse is clear on the point:

    We created you; then fashioned you; then said We to the angels, Prostrate yourselves unto Adam. (7: 10.)

    2. The Quran splits up the legend into two distinct episodes - the one relating to what it describes simply as 'the tree' and the other relating to the 'tree of eternity' and the 'kingdom that faileth not'. The first episode is mentioned in the 7th and the second in the 20th Sura of the Quran. According to the Quran Adam and his wife, led astray by Satan whose function is to create doubts in the minds of men, tasted the fruit of both the trees, whereas according to the Old Testament man was driven out of the Garden of Eden immediately after his first act of disobedience, and God placed, at the Eastern side of the garden, angels and a flaming sword, turning on all sides, to keep the way to the tree of life.

    3. [There is no] reason to suppose that the word 'Jannat' (garden) as used here means the supersensual paradise from which man is supposed to have fallen on this earth. According to the Quran man is not a stranger on this earth. And We have caused you to 'grow from the earth,' says the Quran (67:24). The 'Jannat', mentioned in the legend, cannot mean the eternal abode of the righteous. In the sense of the eternal abode of the righteous, 'Jannat' is described by the Quran to be the place 'wherein the righteous will pass to one another the cup which shall engender no light discourse, no motive to sin'. It is further described to be the place 'wherein no weariness shall reach the righteous, nor forth from it shall they be cast'. In the 'Jannat' mentioned in the legend, however, the very first event that took place was man's sin of disobedience followed by his expulsion.

    In fact, the Quran itself explains the meaning of the word as used in its own narration. In the second episode of the legend the garden is described as a place 'where there is neither hunger, nor thirst, neither heat nor nakedness'. I am, therefore inclined to think that the 'Jannat' in the Quranic narration is the conception of a primitive state in which man is practically unrelated to his environment and consequently does not feel the sting of human wants, the birth of which alone marks the beginning of human culture...

    The Fall does not mean any moral depravity; it is man's transition from simple consciousness to the first flash of self-consciousness, a kind of waking from the dream of nature with a throb of personal causality in one's own being.

    Nor does the Quran regard the earth as a torture-hall where an elementally wicked humanity is imprisoned for an original act of sin. Man's first act of disobedience was also his first act of free choice; and that is why, according to the Quranic narration, Adam's first transgression was forgiven.

    Since I was taught it in Year 10, I have never doubted the theory of evolution. Not when I was a Christian, not when I was an atheist and not when I was a Muslim. I have known many converts and still know a few: none of them disbelieves in evolution. The 'born Muslims' I knew were mostly in science-based vocations yet still religious. I doubt they believed in creationism or whatever either.

    Of course that is just my experience. Perhaps I'm wrong but creationism/ID seems to be the purview of 'fundamentalists' and the rather strange (and rich) Adnan Oktar.

    Quote
    I died as a mineral and became a plant,
    I died as plant and rose to animal,
    I died as animal and I was Man.
    Why should I fear? When was I less by dying?
    Yet once more I shall die as Man, to soar
    With angels blest; but even from angelhood
    I must pass on: all except God doth perish.
    When I have sacrificed my angel-soul,
    I shall become what no mind e'er conceived.
    Oh, let me not exist! for Non-existence
    Proclaims in organ tones, 'To Him we shall return.'

     - Jalaluddin Rumi


    The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
  • Re: Scientific evidence AGAINST Islam
     Reply #27 - January 02, 2009, 01:24 PM

    I know quite a few muslims who believe in Creationism, and have enough quotes from the Quran to support this idea, I did have a talk with one of them and debunked every evidence against evolution he had until all he was left with was gaps in the fossil record. He's still adament about evolution. However the article you posted does sound the common 'it was all a metaphor' excuse to me.
  • Re: Scientific evidence AGAINST Islam
     Reply #28 - January 02, 2009, 01:26 PM

    You're from Sheffield. Cool. Cabaret Voltaire were from there. I wish I could visit Sheffield one day Smiley

    The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
  • Re: Scientific evidence AGAINST Islam
     Reply #29 - January 02, 2009, 01:32 PM

    You're from Sheffield. Cool. Cabaret Voltaire were from there. I wish I could visit Sheffield one day Smiley

    You should visit it, Sheffield is a great city indeed Smiley
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