Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


Qur'anic studies today
April 23, 2024, 06:50 AM

Do humans have needed kno...
April 20, 2024, 12:02 PM

Lights on the way
by akay
April 19, 2024, 04:40 PM

اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
April 19, 2024, 12:50 PM

Do humans have needed kno...
April 19, 2024, 04:17 AM

What's happened to the fo...
by zeca
April 18, 2024, 06:39 PM

New Britain
April 18, 2024, 05:41 PM

Iran launches drones
April 13, 2024, 09:56 PM

عيد مبارك للجميع! ^_^
by akay
April 12, 2024, 04:01 PM

Eid-Al-Fitr
by akay
April 12, 2024, 12:06 PM

Mock Them and Move on., ...
January 30, 2024, 10:44 AM

Pro Israel or Pro Palesti...
January 29, 2024, 01:53 PM

Theme Changer

 Topic: The Ahmaddiyat Bai'it (initiation)

 (Read 7160 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • The Ahmaddiyat Bai'it (initiation)
     OP - December 31, 2008, 08:47 AM

    I've never really thought about what the initiation actually meant...and I looked it up on the Ahmaddiyat website which makes it so much easier NOT to want to follow it...

    DISCLAIMER: This is not material for extremist Muslims to use against the Ahmaddiya sect...since it has no references to being un-Islamic, so screw you if you want to use it to argue Ahmaddi folk aren't Muslim.
    I'm only posting this because this is what MY background was, and so it is more to do with personal research than anything and although I have rejected Ahmaddiyat viewpoints, I wouldn't stray towards any other sect of Islam either. So there  Tongue

    Quote
    Conditions of Initiation (Bai'at)
    in
    Ahmadiyya Muslim Community
    By
    Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian
    The Promised Messiah and Mahdi (peace be upon him)
    ________________________________________
    The initiate shall solemnly promise:
    I   That he/she shall abstain from Shirk (association of any partner with God) right up to the day of his/her death.


    Fair enough..."no god but Allah, and Mo is his messenger..."

    Quote
    II   That he/she shall keep away from falsehood, fornication, adultery, trespasses of the eye, debauchery, dissipation, cruelty, dishonesty, mischief and rebellion; and will not permit himself/herself to be carried away by passions, however strong they might be.


    Falsehood. Lying? Everybody lies at some stage. Heck, loads of Muslims I know have lied, even about petty things. What the hell is trespasses of the eye anyway? Anybody care to explain that one to me?

    Quote
    III   That he/she shall regularly offer the five daily prayers in accordance with the commandments of God and the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him); and shall try his/her best to be regular in offering the Tahajud (pre-dawn supererogatory prayers) and invoking Darood (blessings) on the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him); that he/she shall make it his/her daily routine to ask forgiveness for his/her sins, to remember the bounties of God and to praise and glorify Him.


    Because god constantly needs to be reminded how great and holy he is.

    Quote
    IV   That under the impulse of any passions, he/she shall cause no harm whatsoever to the creatures of Allah in general, and Muslims in particular, neither by his/her tongue nor by his/her hands nor by any other means.


    Calling someone an infidel (kafir, whatever) is pretty insulting and is causing them harm...

    Quote

    V   That he/she shall remain faithful to God in all circumstances of life, in sorrow and happiness, adversity and prosperity, in felicity and trial; and shall in all conditions remain resigned to the decree of Allah and keep himself/herself ready to face all kinds of indignities and sufferings in His way and shall never turn away from it at the onslaught of any misfortune; on the contrary, he/she shall march forward.


    If there is suffering, and god is benevolent, almighty, all powerful, ominiscient, there shouldn't be an excuse. Somethin' ain't right.
     
    Quote
    VI   That he/she shall refrain from following un-islamic customs and lustful inclinations, and shall completely submit himself/herself to the authority of the Holy Quran; and shall make the Word of God and the Sayings of the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) the guiding principle in every walk of his/her life.


    Halloween, Christmas, Easter...well I'm out.
     
    Quote
    VII   That he/she shall entirely give up pride and vanity and shall pass all his/her life in humbleness, cheerfulness, forbearance and meekness.

     
    Vanity and pride...ahh the very seeds of some people I know...they are the Muslim Desperate Housewives...Tongue

    Quote
    VIII   That he/she shall hold faith, the honor of faith, and the cause of Islam dearer to him/her than his/her life, wealth, honor, children and all other dear ones.


    Children? Children? My mother once said to me that she would still love me if I gave up religion....something tells me she was just saying that...all talk. If not, then...well, she isn't following the Bai'it very well.

    Quote

    IX   That he/she shall keep himself/herself occupied in the service of God's creatures for His sake only; and shall endeavor to benefit mankind to the best of his/her God-given abilities and powers.

     
    For the sake of god only? Not for morality, but do it for the G-man, yo!

    Quote
    X   That he/she shall enter into a bond of brotherhood with this humble servant of God, pledging obedience to me in everything good, for the sake of Allah, and remain faithful to it till the day of his/her death; that he/she shall exert such a high devotion in the observance of this bond as is not to be found in any other worldly relationship and connections demanding devoted dutifulness.


    Pretty full-on. It's like having a full time job.

    Source: http://www.alislam.org/introduction/conditions.html
  • Re: The Ahmaddiyat Bai'it (initiation)
     Reply #1 - December 31, 2008, 09:45 AM

    I've never really thought about what the initiation actually meant...and I looked it up on the Ahmaddiyat website which makes it so much easier NOT to want to follow it...

    DISCLAIMER: This is not material for extremist Muslims to use against the Ahmaddiya sect...since it has no references to being un-Islamic, so screw you if you want to use it to argue Ahmaddi folk aren't Muslim.
    I'm only posting this because this is what MY background was, and so it is more to do with personal research than anything and although I have rejected Ahmaddiyat viewpoints, I wouldn't stray towards any other sect of Islam either. So there  Tongue


    From my understanding the ahmadiya sect is pacifist and one of the more peaceful sects of Islam, still Islam, but not all "jihad Jihad durka durka"  Cheesy

    Quote

    What the hell is trespasses of the eye anyway? Anybody care to explain that one to me?



    I think (I could be wrong) it means either giving the evil eye, or cheating with the eyes by not lowering the gaze.  wacko

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: The Ahmaddiyat Bai'it (initiation)
     Reply #2 - December 31, 2008, 09:53 AM

    Given the context:

    Quote
    fornication, adultery, trespasses of the eye, debauchery

    I'd say the meaning is pretty obvious. Tongue

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: The Ahmaddiyat Bai'it (initiation)
     Reply #3 - December 31, 2008, 10:19 AM

    Ah yes...I suppose.

    Berbs, you're right, they are pacifist...but the 'non-believers are infidels' undertones are still present.
  • Re: The Ahmaddiyat Bai'it (initiation)
     Reply #4 - December 31, 2008, 10:22 AM

    Pacifist is good. Who cares what they think as long as they don't go nuts? parrot

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: The Ahmaddiyat Bai'it (initiation)
     Reply #5 - December 31, 2008, 10:35 AM

    Problem is, although they preach not to go nuts....they really do go nuts.

    Also, my mum told me about one of her friends who is married with 3 kids. The hubby beat her so she left him and now the hubby is trying to get custody of the children. They took it to the mosque to deal with it internally but the mosque's response was that she should just accept him if she wants to keep her kids. That really isn't much of a resolution.
  • Re: The Ahmaddiyat Bai'it (initiation)
     Reply #6 - December 31, 2008, 10:38 AM

    Aha, so they go nuts in a "love for all" way? Sorta kill ya but nicely? dance

    The mosque thing sounds par for the course. Pretty much anytime you get an imam involved they will say shit like that. Of course they aren't the ones who have to put up with the beatings. They don't seem to volunteer to swap places or anything. Sharia is pox.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: The Ahmaddiyat Bai'it (initiation)
     Reply #7 - December 31, 2008, 10:51 AM

    Yeh agreed. That's what I hate...I just don't see the need to get them involved since they give little rights to the women.

    Completely off topic but I craaave KFC right now.
  • Re: The Ahmaddiyat Bai'it (initiation)
     Reply #8 - December 31, 2008, 10:53 AM

    Chooks are halal. Go nuts.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: The Ahmaddiyat Bai'it (initiation)
     Reply #9 - December 31, 2008, 10:56 AM

    It tastes like crap in Oz! So greasy and disgusting. I'm having party pies!

    Oh dear, hijacking my own thread...
  • Re: The Ahmaddiyat Bai'it (initiation)
     Reply #10 - December 31, 2008, 10:59 AM

    Yeah I loathe KFC. I call it Kentucky Fucked Chook. Don't mind Eagle Boys pizzas though, if you get one of the good ones.

     Thread jacked

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: The Ahmaddiyat Bai'it (initiation)
     Reply #11 - December 31, 2008, 11:00 AM

    Given the context:

    Quote
    fornication, adultery, trespasses of the eye, debauchery

    I'd say the meaning is pretty obvious. Tongue


    It sounds like voyeurism to me...  Shocked
    Isn't this what one of Mohammad's followers was doing ie watching Mohammad's wife going to toilet?
  • Re: The Ahmaddiyat Bai'it (initiation)
     Reply #12 - December 31, 2008, 11:05 AM

    You have to wonder about that bloke. I mean didn't he have anything better to do in the middle of the bloody night?
    It's a daft story, because if you walked up to most husbands and said you'd been hanging around to see their wife go to the crapper in her nighty they'd smack you upside the head and call the cops, not reveal a fucking sura about hijab.  idiot2

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: The Ahmaddiyat Bai'it (initiation)
     Reply #13 - December 31, 2008, 11:10 AM

    Either I'm finding every little statement hilarious right now or you are actually cracking me the feck up with your posts.

     Cheesy
  • Re: The Ahmaddiyat Bai'it (initiation)
     Reply #14 - December 31, 2008, 11:13 AM

    It's probably partly a reaction to the stress. Mind you I am bloody funny. George Carlin has nothing on me. Mind you is dead so that sorta fucked him up a bit.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: The Ahmaddiyat Bai'it (initiation)
     Reply #15 - December 31, 2008, 12:30 PM

    You have to wonder about that bloke. I mean didn't he have anything better to do in the middle of the bloody night?
    It's a daft story, because if you walked up to most husbands and said you'd been hanging around to see their wife go to the crapper in her nighty they'd smack you upside the head and call the cops, not reveal a fucking sura about hijab.  idiot2


    i've heard it explained that the women walked to a far off place to do their business and they would pass by where the men were, and sauda (i think it was her) had very distinct features, even in the dark and from a distancy, that umar could tell who she was...

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: The Ahmaddiyat Bai'it (initiation)
     Reply #16 - December 31, 2008, 12:33 PM

    i've heard of much crazier, shirkier bai'a's to sufi sheikhs. that seems pretty tame to me.

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: The Ahmaddiyat Bai'it (initiation)
     Reply #17 - December 31, 2008, 08:46 PM

    You're right, it was Sauda but I still don't see why it would matter to any sane person.

    "Oh look, Sauda's off for a crap!"

    "Meh."

    "No really. It's Sauda and she's going to the crapper."

    "STFU." Tongue

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: The Ahmaddiyat Bai'it (initiation)
     Reply #18 - January 01, 2009, 12:37 AM

    i've heard of much crazier, shirkier bai'a's to sufi sheikhs. that seems pretty tame to me.


    It's tame, but I wouldn't agree with it still.
  • Re: The Ahmaddiyat Bai'it (initiation)
     Reply #19 - January 01, 2009, 12:47 AM

    The only major qualm I have about this (apart from all the regular islamic bits) is this:
    Quote
    X.   ...pledging obedience to me (mirza ghulam ahmad)... and remain faithful to it till the day of his/her death; that he/she shall exert such a high devotion in the observance of this bond as is not to be found in any other worldly relationship and connections demanding devoted dutifulness.


    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: The Ahmaddiyat Bai'it (initiation)
     Reply #20 - January 01, 2009, 02:47 AM

    The only major qualm I have about this (apart from all the regular islamic bits) is this:
    Quote
    X.   ...pledging obedience to me (mirza ghulam ahmad)... and remain faithful to it till the day of his/her death; that he/she shall exert such a high devotion in the observance of this bond as is not to be found in any other worldly relationship and connections demanding devoted dutifulness.




    It's Mirza Masroor Ahmed now...Mirza Ghulam Ahmad passed away. But yes, I find that annoying.

    The reason I find all the 'regular' Islamic bits annoying is because I do believe Ahmaddiyat is another Islamic sect...so I will treat it like any other Islamic text.
  • Re: The Ahmaddiyat Bai'it (initiation)
     Reply #21 - January 01, 2009, 03:11 AM

    ? They got a new one? I'm not keeping up. What does this new guy do? Is he the mahdi/messiah now? I thought it would've been just one guy... What's the need for a successor?

    'Regular', I meant 'standard'. Not discriminating against your old sect, sure they're muslims, and you're an ex-muslim. Smiley

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: The Ahmaddiyat Bai'it (initiation)
     Reply #22 - January 01, 2009, 06:43 AM

    Pardon my ignorance, I've just been reading up on it now.

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: The Ahmaddiyat Bai'it (initiation)
     Reply #23 - January 01, 2009, 11:30 AM

    There have always been successors since Ahmaddiyat was founded. I think Mirza Masroor Ahmed is the 6th Khailfa.

    See, that's another thing...it's all so close to politics.
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »