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Theme Changer

 Topic: Muslims......& Women!

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  • Re: Muslims......& Women! (download available)
     Reply #30 - May 03, 2009, 10:56 AM
    Quote from: aai on May 03, 2009, 03:17 AM
    I have a question: A  muslim friend of mine, told me Hijab was traditional dress in the Arabic Peninsula only for free women in the times before Mohammed, in order to keep them safe from other men, and avoid their husbands jealousy. Slaves were not allowed to use Hijab, because "merchandise" should be at sight. Therefore Hijab was sort of a "class privilege", a dress which showed a woman was free and not a slave (we must remind most slaves were actually sexual slaves)

    Slaves were not allowed to wear hijab.  There is a story in one of the Hadith about one of the wives of Muhammad (Saffiyah I think...) which revolved around this point.

    Basically, the Muslims at the time had pretty much killed everyone in her tribe, her husband, family etc.  and Muhammad had taken her to his tent for the night.
    The other wives of Muhammad then had to wait in the morning to see if she would leave his tent wearing hijab (i.e. being his wife) or not wearing hijab (i.e. slave).
  • Re: Muslims......& Women! (download available)
     Reply #31 - May 03, 2009, 11:38 AM
    Quote from: hupla on May 03, 2009, 10:56 AM
    Quote from: aai on May 03, 2009, 03:17 AM
    I have a question: A  muslim friend of mine, told me Hijab was traditional dress in the Arabic Peninsula only for free women in the times before Mohammed, in order to keep them safe from other men, and avoid their husbands jealousy. Slaves were not allowed to use Hijab, because "merchandise" should be at sight. Therefore Hijab was sort of a "class privilege", a dress which showed a woman was free and not a slave (we must remind most slaves were actually sexual slaves)

    Slaves were not allowed to wear hijab.  There is a story in one of the Hadith about one of the wives of Muhammad (Saffiyah I think...) which revolved around this point.

    Basically, the Muslims at the time had pretty much killed everyone in her tribe, her husband, family etc.  and Muhammad had taken her to his tent for the night.
    The other wives of Muhammad then had to wait in the morning to see if she would leave his tent wearing hijab (i.e. being his wife) or not wearing hijab (i.e. slave).


    Do you know the hadith? I've never heard of this before.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Muslims......& Women! (download available)
     Reply #32 - May 03, 2009, 11:57 AM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on May 03, 2009, 11:38 AM
    Do you know the hadith? I've never heard of this before.

    I'd have to do some digging - been mentioned here before.  Thinking about it, it's probably from Ibn Ishaq. 

    EDIT:
    Found it!  From Bukhari:

    Volume 5, Book 59, Number 524:

    Narrated Anas:

    The Prophet stayed for three rights between Khaibar and Medina and was married to Safiya. I invited the Muslim to his marriage banquet and there was neither meat nor bread in that banquet but the Prophet ordered Bilal to spread the leather mats on which dates, dried yogurt and butter were put. The Muslims said amongst themselves, "Will she (i.e. Safiya) be one of the mothers of the believers, (i.e. one of the wives of the Prophet) or just (a lady captive) of what his right-hand possesses" Some of them said, "If the Prophet makes her observe the veil, then she will be one of the mothers of the believers (i.e. one of the Prophet's wives), and if he does not make her observe the veil, then she will be his lady slave." So when he departed, he made a place for her behind him (on his and made her observe the veil.

    (I think there may be other hadiths about this which more exactly correspond with how I remembered it).
  • Re: Muslims......& Women! (download available)
     Reply #33 - September 15, 2009, 02:32 PM
    Quote from: hupla on May 03, 2009, 11:57 AM
    I'd have to do some digging - been mentioned here before.  Thinking about it, it's probably from Ibn Ishaq. 

    EDIT:
    Found it!  From Bukhari:

    Volume 5, Book 59, Number 524:

    Narrated Anas:

    The Prophet stayed for three rights between Khaibar and Medina and was married to Safiya. I invited the Muslim to his marriage banquet and there was neither meat nor bread in that banquet but the Prophet ordered Bilal to spread the leather mats on which dates, dried yogurt and butter were put. The Muslims said amongst themselves, "Will she (i.e. Safiya) be one of the mothers of the believers, (i.e. one of the wives of the Prophet) or just (a lady captive) of what his right-hand possesses" Some of them said, "If the Prophet makes her observe the veil, then she will be one of the mothers of the believers (i.e. one of the Prophet's wives), and if he does not make her observe the veil, then she will be his lady slave." So when he departed, he made a place for her behind him (on his and made her observe the veil.

    (I think there may be other hadiths about this which more exactly correspond with how I remembered it).


    Interesting find I know that after Muhammad's death I think Umar made it a religious law that women veil.
    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #34 - August 03, 2010, 05:43 PM
    Nicely done! I may have to put this in my book I'm writing, if that;s okay. Afro
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on September 26, 2010, 03:19 PM
    Is your grammar defective? Just askin'.


    "The wound is the place where the Light enters you." - Rumi

  • Re: Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #35 - August 08, 2010, 11:34 AM
    pierced_beauty, of course it's okay.

    Pls bear in mind that citations are taken from original Arabic sources, not in other languages. (Engl or so); translated afterwards by myself into English.

    ATB.
    "I'm Agnostic about God."

    Richard Dawkins
    ==
    "If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
     George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran."  Maryam Namazie
  • Re: Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #36 - August 08, 2010, 12:17 PM
    Quote
    ....but the Prophet ordered Bilal to spread the leather mats on which dates, dried yogurt and butter were put.....


    Huh! Prophet ordered Bilal ...... and Dried yogurt., stupid me  never read/never heard  that., Now I am going to order myself to make dried yogurt and serve the guest to night.,  I guess I need a cheese cloth to dried yogurt..  

    Sounds like an important Islamic Dish.,  shit.. fly fell in my tea cup., Damn.. let me take the wing of it..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #37 - August 08, 2010, 09:45 PM
    Quote from: Emerald on August 08, 2010, 11:34 AM
    pierced_beauty, of course it's okay.

    Pls bear in mind that citations are taken from original Arabic sources, not in other languages. (Engl or so); translated afterwards by myself into English.

    ATB.


    That is fine, I'll put a little box above it stating that. ^_^ Thank you sooo much. ^^
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on September 26, 2010, 03:19 PM
    Is your grammar defective? Just askin'.


    "The wound is the place where the Light enters you." - Rumi

  • Re: Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #38 - August 08, 2010, 10:04 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee
    shit.. fly fell in my tea cup., Damn.. let me take the wing of it..


     Cheesy Cheesy
    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #39 - August 08, 2010, 10:07 PM
    Quote from: Heyjustlooking on September 15, 2009, 02:32 PM
    Interesting find I know that after Muhammad's death I think Umar made it a religious law that women veil.


    Even in my most fervent Muslim days I never had much love for Umar.  It was too well recorded that he did not like women in general.  If he were alive today he would most likely be helping Mullah Omar run the Taliban and would be quaking in fear and intimidation in the presence of any woman whose IQ is more than that of cattle.
    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #40 - September 21, 2012, 03:36 PM
    Islam has given women respect and authority more than any other religion. Both men and women are slaves of Allah! Women have been given plenty of God-given rights to live in this world before the Hereafter. Never underestimate Islam. Allahuakbar!
  • Re: Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #41 - September 21, 2012, 03:38 PM
    Allahuakbar.
    "I'm Agnostic about God."

    Richard Dawkins
    ==
    "If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
     George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran."  Maryam Namazie
  • Re: Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #42 - September 21, 2012, 04:20 PM
    Mashallah! Maria is winning !  dance dance


    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #43 - September 21, 2012, 04:29 PM
    Always stand up for Islam, the noble truth.
  • Re: Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #44 - September 21, 2012, 04:50 PM
    Quote from: Maria on September 21, 2012, 04:29 PM
    Always stand up for Islam, the noble truth.

    Yap you are riot Maria ., We should always stand up for Islam, never sit down.. never ever.. ever never

    hmm  Maria face looks familiar



    I think I saw her in Hijab..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #45 - September 21, 2012, 06:38 PM
    Miss Angelina Jolie
    Wears a hijab and pretends to be holy
    Muslims scream Oh! WOW !
    Sister's one of us now !


    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #46 - September 21, 2012, 06:43 PM
    Angie shouldn't be made fun of.
    Eventually she will embrace Islam.
    Her character and actions show it.
  • Re: Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #47 - September 21, 2012, 06:45 PM
    Quote from: Emerald on September 21, 2012, 03:38 PM
    Allahuakbar.


    Heyyy welcome back!
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #48 - September 21, 2012, 07:06 PM
    Quote from: Maria on September 21, 2012, 03:36 PM
    Islam has given women respect and authority more than any other religion. Both men and women are slaves of Allah! Women have been given plenty of God-given rights to live in this world before the Hereafter. Never underestimate Islam. Allahuakbar!


  • Re: Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #49 - September 21, 2012, 07:09 PM
    Quote from: Nour on August 08, 2010, 10:07 PM
    Even in my most fervent Muslim days I never had much love for Umar.  It was too well recorded that he did not like women in general.  If he were alive today he would most likely be helping Mullah Omar run the Taliban and would be quaking in fear and intimidation in the presence of any woman whose IQ is more than that of cattle.


    To be honest I always thought Umar was a bit of a cunt even when I was a muslim. I even talked to a shaikh about this and told him I cant stand Umar from all the things I have read about him in Islamic books. His reply was that I dont like him coz he was too much like me :S I realised then that this guy didnt know what the fuck he was talking about had really had no real answer for me.
    -------------------
    Believe in yourself
    -------------------
    Strike me down and I'll just become another nail in your coffin
    -------------------
    There's such a thing as sheep in wolfs clothing... religious fanatics
  • Re: Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #50 - September 21, 2012, 07:13 PM
    Quote from: Maria on September 21, 2012, 03:36 PM
    Islam has given women respect and authority more than any other religion. Both men and women are slaves of Allah! Women have been given plenty of God-given rights to live in this world before the Hereafter. Never underestimate Islam. Allahuakbar!


    Please don't say that!! That's simply wrong!!
  • Re: Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #51 - September 21, 2012, 07:18 PM
    Don't worry Yume. She's either a troll pretending to play the part of the worst types of Muslims, or she is a rabidly dogmatic (aka insecure), sexist (aka insecure), homophobic (aka insecure) Muslim. Either way, she is not the type of person whose opinion has ever held much sway, especially in her own mind, or she wouldn't need to go around trying to impose it on random strangers on the Internet (which is made and run by gays and Jews, btw).
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #52 - September 21, 2012, 07:46 PM
    Quote
    "If the Prophet makes her observe the veil, then she will be one of the mothers of the believers (i.e. one of the Prophet's wives), and if he does not make her observe the veil, then she will be his lady slave."


    Hang on, isn't this saying only wives of the prophet should be veiled?  Anyone else is being blasphemous pretending they are a wife of uncle Mo,
    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #53 - March 08, 2013, 07:32 PM
    Going back to the OP- Arabic jahalayaa or the dark pre-Islamic days cannot have been all that bad for women. Take the educated esteemed respected intelligent successful business woman that the Prophets first wife Khadija was supposed to have been Pre-Islam.

    If things were as bad as they are made out and Islam saved women, how did a woman like Khadija come to be?
  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #54 - March 08, 2013, 09:20 PM
    The only rights islam claims to have brought are banning female infanticide. theres really nothing else...  muslims love to exaggerate on that.
    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Re: Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #55 - March 08, 2013, 09:21 PM
    Quote from: allat on September 21, 2012, 07:18 PM
    Don't worry Yume. She's either a troll pretending to play the part of the worst types of Muslims, or she is a rabidly dogmatic (aka insecure), sexist (aka insecure), homophobic (aka insecure) Muslim. Either way, she is not the type of person whose opinion has ever held much sway, especially in her own mind, or she wouldn't need to go around trying to impose it on random strangers on the Internet (which is made and run by gays and Jews, btw).

    Cheesy
  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #56 - March 08, 2013, 09:53 PM
    Quote from: mina on March 08, 2013, 07:32 PM
    Going back to the OP- Arabic jahalayaa or the dark pre-Islamic days cannot have been all that bad for women. Take the educated esteemed respected intelligent successful business woman that the Prophets first wife Khadija was supposed to have been Pre-Islam.

    If things were as bad as they are made out and Islam saved women, how did a woman like Khadija come to be?


    Is it true that Khadija left her business and became a dutiful housewife after embracing Islam? That what some guys on Sunniforum (yes that turd forum) told me when I tried making a case for female rights in Islam back in the day using Khadija's example.
  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #57 - June 08, 2013, 09:20 AM
    Quote from: yeezevee on September 21, 2012, 04:50 PM
    Yap you are riot Maria ., We should always stand up for Islam, never sit down.. never ever.. ever never

    hmm  Maria face looks familiar

    (Clicky for piccy!)

    I think I saw her in Hijab..


    Miranda from Mass Effect 2?
    "If a monster existed, it was buried deep within."
  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #58 - February 22, 2014, 09:18 AM
    Worth bringing back.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Muslims......& Women!
     Reply #59 - March 27, 2014, 05:00 PM
    the most famous story I heard about Islam honoring woman is God made them stop burying baby girls alive, because humans couldn't figure out that was wrong.....

    I have heard some really scary stories of men burying their daughters alive, one involving a man burying his 5 year old daughter alive, she even helped dig the grave.... mind you this was before islam came to save her
    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
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