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Theme Changer

 Topic: A Serious Question to Ex-Muslims

 (Read 13905 times)
  • Previous page 1 23 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: A Serious Question to Ex-Muslims
     Reply #30 - December 11, 2008, 08:04 AM


    Hello BMZ,

    But that is not quite clarified.  You asked

    Quote
    My question: As ex-Muslims, do you believe that Islam supports prostitution?


    Few, if any, ex-muslims here were ever Qur'an only muslims.  So if you want to know their former beliefs, you should not be taking sahih hadiths off the table.

    You need to clarify again.  Do you want to know their former beliefs, or their former reading of the Qur'an?


    Hello, Cheetah

    Forget about Qur'aan, Hadith and all other Jam'aa.

    Let me ask you just this, assuming you were a Muslim once:

    Did you ever believe that Islam supported prostitution?

    Either a simple Yes or a simple No, would suffice. But don't write Yes or No back, please.  Smiley

    Cheers
    BMZ

  • Re: A Serious Question to Ex-Muslims
     Reply #31 - December 11, 2008, 08:19 AM

    What is your aim/point/purpose with this question BMZ?

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: A Serious Question to Ex-Muslims
     Reply #32 - December 11, 2008, 08:32 AM


    Hello BMZ,

    But that is not quite clarified.  You asked

    Quote
    My question: As ex-Muslims, do you believe that Islam supports prostitution?


    Few, if any, ex-muslims here were ever Qur'an only muslims.  So if you want to know their former beliefs, you should not be taking sahih hadiths off the table.

    You need to clarify again.  Do you want to know their former beliefs, or their former reading of the Qur'an?


    Hello, Cheetah

    Forget about Qur'aan, Hadith and all other Jam'aa.

    Let me ask you just this, assuming you were a Muslim once:

    Did you ever believe that Islam supported prostitution?

    Either a simple Yes or a simple No, would suffice. But don't write Yes or No back, please.  Smiley

    Cheers
    BMZ




    Although not an ex-Muslim I was the first person to attempt to answer you're original question. It seems now that you've completely deviated from your original post.

    It was more or less decided last night that the members on this forum do not want it to become an FFI nut house so please stick to the original question or start a new thread relating to perceived beliefs rather than interpretation of scriptures.

    I don't know you but I must admit I feel a bit embarrassed having to ask you this.
  • Re: A Serious Question to Ex-Muslims
     Reply #33 - December 12, 2008, 12:53 AM

    Hello all

    This is All_Brains....Missed you all! Smiley

    I have been in debate with Ahmed for a while now and while I am of the opinion that Islam does not support prostitution in its traditional definition, Islam disguise "prostitution" under the sanction of a very "dodgy" understanding of marriage .

    I don't think Islam sanctioned prostitution for one simple reason, why pay for sex when you can have it for free...

    The rape of women under "right-hand possession" right and even forceful marriages as excericed by Muhammad himself when he married the Jewish Safiyah the same evening he slaughtered her husband and her entire family...

    Did Safiyah fall in love with Muhammad following the beheading of 900 of her tribe and family members?Huh??

    In my opinion Islam does not sanction "prostitution", however it sanctions what is way worse...Rape.

    After all prostitution in its legalised form "sex between consented adults in exchange for money", has very little effect specially if the parties concerned are not in the cheating business.

    Rape on the other hand has very negative psychological consequences that can be passed on to generations to come.

    All_Brains

    A little boy prayed for a bike. Then he realized God doesn't work that way so he stole a bike and asked for forgiveness.
    http://freefaith.myfreeforum.org
    http://all-brains.blogspot.com
  • Re: A Serious Question to Ex-Muslims
     Reply #34 - December 12, 2008, 02:27 PM

    Hello all

    This is All_Brains....Missed you all! Smiley

    I have been in debate with Ahmed for a while now and while I am of the opinion that Islam does not support prostitution in its traditional definition, Islam disguise "prostitution" under the sanction of a very "dodgy" understanding of marriage .

    I don't think Islam sanctioned prostitution for one simple reason, why pay for sex when you can have it for free...

    The rape of women under "right-hand possession" right and even forceful marriages as excericed by Muhammad himself when he married the Jewish Safiyah the same evening he slaughtered her husband and her entire family...

    Did Safiyah fall in love with Muhammad following the beheading of 900 of her tribe and family members?Huh??

    In my opinion Islam does not sanction "prostitution", however it sanctions what is way worse...Rape.

    After all prostitution in its legalised form "sex between consented adults in exchange for money", has very little effect specially if the parties concerned are not in the cheating business.

    Rape on the other hand has very negative psychological consequences that can be passed on to generations to come.

    All_Brains



    lol,   A_B

    This means more work. Looks like somebody has opened a topic on this.

    Okay, that was an interesting OP within the thread. lol!

    Will write when I have more time.

    Take care, mate

    BMZ

    Edited to add: Sorry, A_B, Peruvian Skies is talking about marital rape in Islam.
  • Re: A Serious Question to Ex-Muslims
     Reply #35 - December 12, 2008, 02:51 PM

    Quote
    Hello, Cheetah

    Forget about Qur'aan, Hadith and all other Jam'aa.

    Let me ask you just this, assuming you were a Muslim once:

    Did you ever believe that Islam supported prostitution?

    Either a simple Yes or a simple No, would suffice. But don't write Yes or No back, please.  Smiley

    Cheers
    BMZ


    Hello BMZ,

    I'm not an ex-muslim, that's why I didn't attempt to answer your question.  I only stuck my oar in to try and clarify the question for those who did want to answer.

    Incidentally, if I was going to answer the question I would be leaning towards no.  The muta thing sounds dodgy, but its not very widely accepted is it?  So its mostly a no, Islam doesn't sanction prostitution, as far as I know.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: A Serious Question to Ex-Muslims
     Reply #36 - December 12, 2008, 02:55 PM

    I always believed that prostitution was Haram when I was a muslim, it wasn't until after when I started reading more to do with Islam, that I realised temporary marriage (which is not practised by sunnis anymore, but is by shias) is just glorified prostitution.

    And Haik Monsieur makes me laugh, the arrogance and complete belief in his genius is enough to put anyone off the stuff he is writing.....well so I thought.

    He left here crying about how we were all fake ex muslims because we didn't fall for his "I'm a super brainiac" routine"


    travelers marriage (Nikah Misyar) is practiced by (sunni) Muslims namely in the Arab world.
  • Re: A Serious Question to Ex-Muslims
     Reply #37 - December 12, 2008, 02:58 PM



    travelers marriage (Nikah Misyar) is practiced by (sunni) Muslims namely in the Arab world.


    To this day?  Huh?

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: A Serious Question to Ex-Muslims
     Reply #38 - December 12, 2008, 03:01 PM



    travelers marriage (Nikah Misyar) is practiced by (sunni) Muslims namely in the Arab world.


    To this day?  Huh?


    Yes. Mainly by students and wealthy Arabs.
  • Re: A Serious Question to Ex-Muslims
     Reply #39 - December 12, 2008, 03:02 PM

    Islamic lawyers add that this type of marriage fits the needs of a conservative society which punishes ?zina? (fornication) and other sexual relationships which are established outside a marriage contract. Thus, some Muslim foreigners working in the Gulf countries prefer to engage in the misyar marriage rather than live alone for years. Many of them are actually already married with wives and children in their home country, but they cannot bring them to the region. - wiki
  • Re: A Serious Question to Ex-Muslims
     Reply #40 - December 12, 2008, 03:23 PM



    travelers marriage (Nikah Misyar) is practiced by (sunni) Muslims namely in the Arab world.


    To this day?  Huh?


    Yes. Just google Misyar and you will come across some misyar matrimonials from saudi arabia.

    I was not blessed with the ability to have blind faith. I cant beleive something just because someone says its true.
  • Re: A Serious Question to Ex-Muslims
     Reply #41 - December 12, 2008, 03:32 PM

    So basically Islam DOES allow prositution, just they give it a different name.  wacko

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: A Serious Question to Ex-Muslims
     Reply #42 - December 12, 2008, 03:39 PM

    Not trying to offend anyone, but oesn?t the concept of  "Mahr" , of buying a wife, make her "halal" for money, make the islamic concept of marriage pretty close to prostutition, anyway, especially, since divorce for the man is so very easy?
  • Re: A Serious Question to Ex-Muslims
     Reply #43 - December 12, 2008, 03:44 PM

    So basically Islam DOES allow prositution, just they give it a different name.  wacko


    Misyar is a marriage of convenience where the partners do not have to be living under the same roof, but the man will have visitation rights ( Cheesy) to  the woman's abode.

    I was not blessed with the ability to have blind faith. I cant beleive something just because someone says its true.
  • Re: A Serious Question to Ex-Muslims
     Reply #44 - December 12, 2008, 03:55 PM

    Quote
    Hello, Cheetah

    Forget about Qur'aan, Hadith and all other Jam'aa.

    Let me ask you just this, assuming you were a Muslim once:

    Did you ever believe that Islam supported prostitution?

    Either a simple Yes or a simple No, would suffice. But don't write Yes or No back, please.  Smiley

    Cheers
    BMZ


    Hello BMZ,

    I'm not an ex-muslim, that's why I didn't attempt to answer your question.  I only stuck my oar in to try and clarify the question for those who did want to answer.

    Incidentally, if I was going to answer the question I would be leaning towards no.  The muta thing sounds dodgy, but its not very widely accepted is it?  So its mostly a no, Islam doesn't sanction prostitution, as far as I know.


    Thank you, Cheetah. Yes, Mut'aa is a Shia thingy and is not widely accepted.

    I had a very prolonged discussion with some Shia friends and finally asked them, "Gentelmen, will you allow me to have Mut'aa with your sisters?"

    The answer was a firm No. They do defend it but do not practise in real life. If they do, you will hear reports of many Mut'aa couples hanged or killed in Iran everyday.  Wink

    Mut'aa, simply means sex and fun, is haram and falls under prostitution. There is no such word as Mut'aa in Qur'aan.

    Thanks, once again for being frank.

    Good night
    BMZ

  • Re: A Serious Question to Ex-Muslims
     Reply #45 - December 12, 2008, 03:55 PM

    'Misyar' biz thrives in Saudi Arabia
    Quote
    Misyar marriages are usually clandestine and the women in most cases forfeit all their rights. Why should any women accept such conditions? The reason is usually a lack of options to get married traditionally. Some may have passed the most-sought-after marriage age and others may be widows or divorcees.

    In the majority of such marriages, the woman always seeks a stable married life. But the kinds of men who seek misyar are usually married and want a second wife without disrupting their first marriage. As expected, the first wife would object to the marriage and things could get complicated, eventually the misyar would end up in divorce, an Arab News report said.

    Men who don't have enough income to be the breadwinner for two families also seek misyar, instead of taking a second wife through a traditional marriage. It is interesting to note that a minority of women have turned misyar into a business. These women never intend to stay married to the same man for more than a few months; the cause of this is the lucrative dowry they get from each marriage. And during the few months of marriage they try to extract as much money as they can.

    If the husband refuses to divorce at any point in the marriage, they then use what they claim is a very effective way of making him obey: They threaten to inform the first wife of the secret marriage. One such woman is Siham, who has been married six times (one traditional and five misyar). She said men who are "scared to death of their first wives" are exactly the type she seeks to marry in misyar.

    "I only marry men who are afraid of their first wives and are financially well off," said Siham, who asked to be known only by her nickname, which means "Arrows" in Arabic. "When I hear that there is a suitor looking for misyar, I check two things -- whether he is wealthy and whether he is afraid of his wife," said Siham, adding that she takes no less than SR30,000 in dowry. In many misyar marriages the husband usually doesn't live with the woman and tends to visit his wife whenever it is convenient. All five of Siham's former husbands have been such.

    Prior to the misyar marriage, Siham's husband-to-be is made to believe that no financial support will be required of him, and that all the marriage will cost him is the dowry.

    However, after the marriage Siham reveals her true colour. Every time her husband wants to visit her (once in a week or two) she fleeces anything between SR5,000 and SR7,000 from him. "I make him pay all my expenses, otherwise I don't allow him visits," she said. "I believe men have been taking advantage of women in misyar marriages. They take so much from women and give so little, but I've turned the tables on them."

    After getting divorced, Siham completes the waiting period of four months and 10 days, which is required by the Shariah before a widow or a divorcee marries again. Ever since Siham turned misyar into a business, she has been very careful about her dealings. She said she had kept all her husbands in the dark about how many times she had been married. "I tell them that I have been married once," she said. "And there is no way for them to find out because after my first marriage, which was a traditional one, my other marriages were not registered in the court."

    Siham says that her first husband abused her for years until she got divorced from him. But what made Siham think of misyar as a business? Siham claims that she learned of this eccentric trade from some women she befriended.

    "I learned from my friends who like me were abused by their first husbands," she said. According to Islamic law, a marriage is not legitimate if any of the spouses gets married with the intention of ending the union after a specific period.



    ? Bahrain Tribune 2008


    Siham, which means "Arrows" in Arabic, most definitely knows how to shoot around the shariah system  Afro

    I was not blessed with the ability to have blind faith. I cant beleive something just because someone says its true.
  • Re: A Serious Question to Ex-Muslims
     Reply #46 - December 12, 2008, 04:00 PM

    I always believed that prostitution was Haram when I was a muslim, it wasn't until after when I started reading more to do with Islam, that I realised temporary marriage (which is not practised by sunnis anymore, but is by shias) is just glorified prostitution.

    And Haik Monsieur makes me laugh, the arrogance and complete belief in his genius is enough to put anyone off the stuff he is writing.....well so I thought.

    He left here crying about how we were all fake ex muslims because we didn't fall for his "I'm a super brainiac" routine"


    travelers marriage (Nikah Misyar) is practiced by (sunni) Muslims namely in the Arab world.


    Well, that is also Haram. If they do such an act, which is totally against Qur'aan.

    Honestly, I don't know how they do that and how can they justify that.

    BMZ
  • Re: A Serious Question to Ex-Muslims
     Reply #47 - December 12, 2008, 04:04 PM

    BMZ are you a Quran only Muslim? as far as I understand travelers marriage is considered halal in sunni Islam. 
  • Re: A Serious Question to Ex-Muslims
     Reply #48 - December 12, 2008, 04:04 PM



    travelers marriage (Nikah Misyar) is practiced by (sunni) Muslims namely in the Arab world.


    To this day?  Huh?


    Yes. Just google Misyar and you will come across some misyar matrimonials from saudi arabia.


    Hello, AJ

    Is their any Anti Jihad here that you had to become Anti-Jihadist? Thanks for the tip.

    I will google it before my next travel.  Cheesy

    But you cannot have it because you aren't eligible. It is, I believe, only for Muslims. Is it?  Wink

    Take care
    BMZ
  • Re: A Serious Question to Ex-Muslims
     Reply #49 - December 12, 2008, 04:07 PM

    So basically Islam DOES allow prositution, just they give it a different name.  wacko


    No, Ella.

    It means some Muslims work their own way out. Must be some real sex fiends who need it everyday.

    BMZ
  • Re: A Serious Question to Ex-Muslims
     Reply #50 - December 12, 2008, 04:13 PM

    I had a very prolonged discussion with some Shia friends and finally asked them, "Gentelmen, will you allow me to have Mut'aa with your sisters?"

    The answer was a firm No. They do defend it but do not practise in real life.


    BMZ if I ask you 'Would you marry your 6 year old sister or daughter to a 50 year old man?" Would you say yes?

    You would defend Muhammad and put him on a pedestal, yet for you it may be a different story.

    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: A Serious Question to Ex-Muslims
     Reply #51 - December 12, 2008, 04:20 PM

    Hello, AJ

    Is their any Anti Jihad here that you had to become Anti-Jihadist? Thanks for the tip.

    I will google it before my next travel.  Cheesy

    But you cannot have it because you aren't eligible. It is, I believe, only for Muslims. Is it?  Wink

    Take care
    BMZ


    Hello BMZ,

    No one with that nicke here, actually it was the result of a typo, I typed tahoo instead of yahoo.

     Cheesy Cheesy

    I was not blessed with the ability to have blind faith. I cant beleive something just because someone says its true.
  • Re: A Serious Question to Ex-Muslims
     Reply #52 - December 13, 2008, 07:20 AM

    So basically Islam DOES allow prositution, just they give it a different name.  wacko


    No, Ella.

    It means some Muslims work their own way out. Must be some real sex fiends who need it everyday.

    BMZ


    Oh please, even a lot of Shia Muslims view muta as prostitution and they don't want their daughters to have that sort of marriage - even if the contract is written for a lot longer than an hour.  And that's why a lot of the girls who get into misyar marriages are poor girls, including victims of human trafficking. 

    As for 'sex fiends,' well, whatever.  Supposedly big Al created people with desires, so what's the problem with that.  Also, the prophet did it every day with at least one of his wives, so it must be a Sunnah.  Here's a nice one from Bukhari:

    Volume 1, Book 5, Number 268:

    Anas bin Malik said, "The Prophet used to visit all his wives in a round, during the day and night and they were eleven in number." I asked Anas, "Had the Prophet the strength for it?" Anas replied, "We used to say that the Prophet was given the strength of thirty (men)."

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: A Serious Question to Ex-Muslims
     Reply #53 - December 13, 2008, 07:34 AM

    BMZ are you a Quran only Muslim? as far as I understand travelers marriage is considered halal in sunni Islam. 


    Hello, King Tut

    Not really.

    I just do not agree with many rotten ahaadith in various collections and various junk accounts in Sirat-un-Nabi.

    I do acknowledge material which stands correct in the light and shade of Qur'aan. I reject everything that goes against the teachings of Qur'aan.

    Qur'aan stands supreme. However, I do discuss only through Qur'aan.

    Mut'aa and Traveller's marriages are against Qur'aan and are haram in Islam. Both fall under Zina. Why can't the Muslim traveller exercise self-control and restrain?

    Whoever does so, is actually committing Zina, knowingly.

    BMZ

     



  • Re: A Serious Question to Ex-Muslims
     Reply #54 - December 13, 2008, 07:46 AM

    So basically Islam DOES allow prositution, just they give it a different name.  wacko


    No, Ella.

    It means some Muslims work their own way out. Must be some real sex fiends who need it everyday.

    BMZ


    Oh please, even a lot of Shia Muslims view muta as prostitution and they don't want their daughters to have that sort of marriage - even if the contract is written for a lot longer than an hour.  And that's why a lot of the girls who get into misyar marriages are poor girls, including victims of human trafficking. 

    As for 'sex fiends,' well, whatever.  Supposedly big Al created people with desires, so what's the problem with that.  Also, the prophet did it every day with at least one of his wives, so it must be a Sunnah.  Here's a nice one from Bukhari:

    Volume 1, Book 5, Number 268:

    Anas bin Malik said, "The Prophet used to visit all his wives in a round, during the day and night and they were eleven in number." I asked Anas, "Had the Prophet the strength for it?" Anas replied, "We used to say that the Prophet was given the strength of thirty (men)."


    This 'nice' one is the most ridiculous one.  Cheesy No one knows who that Anas bin Malik was and who was the other Anas.

    I have heard one worse than this for you, which reports that prophet handled all his eleven wives within one hour. This would mean that each wife got 5.45 minutes. Would you use a little common sense here and tell me if all eleven ladies were lying naked in a line and waited like hens waited for the rooster going through?  Cheesy

    Now you are a lady and I am a man. Both of us know that a good love-making session usually takes quite a long time. 

    This clearly shows that the above hadith is junk and stuff.

    Cheers
    BMZ 
  • Re: A Serious Question to Ex-Muslims
     Reply #55 - December 13, 2008, 08:15 AM

    I have heard one... which reports that the prophet handled all his wives in an hour. This would mean that each got 5.45 minutes... Both of us know that a good love-making session usually takes quite a long time.

    I haven't heard this one (one hour), but
    Who said it had to be good?

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: A Serious Question to Ex-Muslims
     Reply #56 - December 13, 2008, 11:23 AM

    I have heard one... which reports that the prophet handled all his wives in an hour. This would mean that each got 5.45 minutes... Both of us know that a good love-making session usually takes quite a long time.

    I haven't heard this one (one hour), but
    Who said it had to be good?


    the good thing about it was it being over, soon.

    and 5.45 minutes (less, if you count the fact he had to get from one to the other) isn?t lovemaking. It?s jerking off on someone.
  • Re: A Serious Question to Ex-Muslims
     Reply #57 - December 13, 2008, 12:45 PM

    I have heard one... which reports that the prophet handled all his wives in an hour. This would mean that each got 5.45 minutes... Both of us know that a good love-making session usually takes quite a long time.

    I haven't heard this one (one hour), but
    Who said it had to be good?


    the good thing about it was it being over, soon.

    and 5.45 minutes (less, if you count the fact he had to get from one to the other) isn?t lovemaking. It?s jerking off on someone.


    You're beginning to get very crude Dio.

    Ha Ha.
  • Re: A Serious Question to Ex-Muslims
     Reply #58 - December 13, 2008, 12:51 PM

    The truth sometimes can look crude. And it would be true in any such case, Mohammed or whoever else.
  • Re: A Serious Question to Ex-Muslims
     Reply #59 - December 13, 2008, 01:00 PM

    The truth sometimes can look crude. And it would be true in any such case, Mohammed or whoever else.



    So let's say poor old Prince comes early, you would tell him the 'truth' as stated in your other message?  Your faith really is helping you become a better person isn't it. Sometimes five mins is better than nothing, whether you see it romantically as your partner 'jerking off into you' or 'making love'. Potty mouth, you.

    Ha Ha.
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