Religion and New Death Experiences

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- panoptic
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Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
Reply #30 - December 01, 2008, 01:47 PM

The reason I quoted her is that she was describing how she'd come to terms with mortality, to the point of indifference almost, as a result of almost dieing. It's just a way of expressing it. *shrug*

Quote from: sparky on December 01, 2008, 12:38 PM
You die, your consciousness dies. During that process, some funky stuff may happen, but in the end, you'll be dead. End of story.

I always thought atheists were proud of their indifference to death!

Having said all that, when I had to tell someone over the phone that their friend had just died, I just couldn't bring myself to say 'dead'. I kept saying 'not alive'... So I sympathise with the difficulties...

"...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
- BerberElla
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Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
Reply #31 - December 01, 2008, 04:35 PM

Quote from: sparky on December 01, 2008, 10:01 AM

The words 'consciousness' and 'released' already have meanings. Things that are dead or ceasing to exist are not 'released', they are dead. Putting these words together like this may make you feel better but actually misleads people as to what you believe is happening in death. If you say to someone 'when I die, my consciousness will be released' you sound like a 'woo-woo' not an atheist.

You can use what words you like but you should be aware about how they will generally be understood - not just by me, but by anyone.

Sparky, have I ever told you that you sound like a "woo woo" for believing in the nonsense you do?

What in the hell is a "woo woo" anyway?

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
Reply #32 - December 01, 2008, 05:39 PM

Quote from: BerberElla on December 01, 2008, 04:35 PM
Quote from: sparky on December 01, 2008, 10:01 AM

The words 'consciousness' and 'released' already have meanings. Things that are dead or ceasing to exist are not 'released', they are dead. Putting these words together like this may make you feel better but actually misleads people as to what you believe is happening in death. If you say to someone 'when I die, my consciousness will be released' you sound like a 'woo-woo' not an atheist.

You can use what words you like but you should be aware about how they will generally be understood - not just by me, but by anyone.

Sparky, have I ever told you that you sound like a "woo woo" for believing in the nonsense you do?

What in the hell is a "woo woo" anyway?

it's a bit of a technical term... Actually, I think I borrowed it from Phed. I think he used it to refer to people who believed in the usefulness of 'alternative medicine'.

Here you go:
Quote
Woo-woo (or just plain woo) refers to ideas considered irrational or based on extremely flimsy evidence or that appeal to mysterious occult forces or powers.

Here's a dictionary definition of woo-woo:

adj. concerned with emotions, mysticism, or spiritualism; other than rational or scientific; mysterious; new agey. Also n., a person who has mystical or new age beliefs.

http://skepdic.com/woowoo.html

Note that the point here was to help you not sound like a woo-woo. Not to say that you did.
- sojournerlumus
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Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
Reply #33 - December 01, 2008, 06:24 PM

Quote from: sparky on December 01, 2008, 10:02 AM
Quote from: sojournerlumus on November 30, 2008, 02:56 PM
Weasel + word= Sparkyspeak.

You just get more and more rude, don't you.

When I'm rude you know it . When you're rude you seem to think that dressing it up in smarmy, sarcastic, semanitic mazes gives you some kind of moral and intellectual superiority. It doesn't and you're not. And no one else is fooled either.

Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
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Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
Reply #34 - December 01, 2008, 06:25 PM

Quote from: sparky on December 01, 2008, 10:04 AM
Quote from: sojournerlumus on November 30, 2008, 02:59 PM
Quote from: sparky on November 29, 2008, 06:53 PM
Quote from: Aziz on November 29, 2008, 06:16 PM
Quote from: panoptic on November 29, 2008, 01:58 PM
I had an atheist friend who went through similar who was comforted by death being a 'release of consciousness'.

This view is comforting to me, too.

A what? How on earth can be consciousness be 'released'?

It's easy to understand unless you want to be obtuse.
Dying brain cells= release of conciousness.
That wasn't too difficult was it?

Uh,generally 'dying brain cells=dying conciousness' if you are an atheist. A prisoner who dies in Jail isn't generally refered to as having been 'released'. A prisoner who is released from jail isn't generally thought to have died at that point.

See, more semantic crap.

Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
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Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
Reply #35 - December 01, 2008, 06:46 PM

Quote from: sojournerlumus on December 01, 2008, 06:24 PM
Quote from: sparky on December 01, 2008, 10:02 AM
Quote from: sojournerlumus on November 30, 2008, 02:56 PM
Weasel + word= Sparkyspeak.

You just get more and more rude, don't you.

When I'm rude you know it . When you're rude you seem to think that dressing it up in smarmy, sarcastic, semanitic mazes gives you some kind of moral and intellectual superiority. It doesn't and you're not. And no one else is fooled either.

Where have I been rude? That really wasn't my intention.
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Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
Reply #36 - December 01, 2008, 06:51 PM

Quote from: sojournerlumus on December 01, 2008, 06:25 PM
Quote from: sparky on December 01, 2008, 10:04 AM
Quote from: sojournerlumus on November 30, 2008, 02:59 PM
Quote from: sparky on November 29, 2008, 06:53 PM
Quote from: Aziz on November 29, 2008, 06:16 PM
Quote from: panoptic on November 29, 2008, 01:58 PM
I had an atheist friend who went through similar who was comforted by death being a 'release of consciousness'.

This view is comforting to me, too.

A what? How on earth can be consciousness be 'released'?

It's easy to understand unless you want to be obtuse.
Dying brain cells= release of conciousness.
That wasn't too difficult was it?

Uh,generally 'dying brain cells=dying conciousness' if you are an atheist. A prisoner who dies in Jail isn't generally refered to as having been 'released'. A prisoner who is released from jail isn't generally thought to have died at that point.

See, more semantic crap.

Call it what you like, from an atheistic perspective, the statement doesn't make any sense at all. I'm amazed at how it seems harder to admit that it just plain doesn't make sense than it is to continue to defend it.
- BerberElla
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Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
Reply #37 - December 01, 2008, 06:58 PM

Quote from: sparky on December 01, 2008, 06:51 PM

Call it what you like, from an atheistic perspective, the statement doesn't make any sense at all. I'm amazed at how it seems harder to admit that it just plain doesn't make sense than it is to continue to defend it.

Do you think you are in a position to understand an atheist perspective on things? I mean really?

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
Reply #38 - December 01, 2008, 07:20 PM

Brain cells, and every type of cell making up your body has individuals that die every day. When most or all neurons die at once, it could be just a change from a biologically based existence, to an energy based one.

If you believe such things.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I remain.
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Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
Reply #39 - December 02, 2008, 11:26 AM

Quote from: BerberElla on December 01, 2008, 06:58 PM
Quote from: sparky on December 01, 2008, 06:51 PM

Call it what you like, from an atheistic perspective, the statement doesn't make any sense at all. I'm amazed at how it seems harder to admit that it just plain doesn't make sense than it is to continue to defend it.

Do you think you are in a position to understand an atheist perspective on things? I mean really?

Sure. I go from what atheists tell me. You don't have to be an atheist to do that. Of course, I could have it wrong. If so, feel free to tell me where!
- a.ghazali
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Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
Reply #40 - December 02, 2008, 01:04 PM

Quote from: learn2bcalm on December 01, 2008, 01:40 PM
Quote from: a.ghazali on December 01, 2008, 01:36 PM
Isn't Buddha considered to be and incarnation (avatar) of god Vishnu?

Also doesn't Jains believe in Mahaveer for which there are many idols/statues which they worship like a god who is also part of the Hindu pantheon of gods?

Buddhists don't belive Buddha to be incarnation of Vishnu. Minority of Hindus believe. Plus, Buddha is not mentioned in any of the pre-Buddha hindu texts. I guess, it was added later so that Hindus who like Buddha don't convert to Buddhism.

Jains take life of Mahavir as an example. They rever him, they don't think he will give them boons or cure them or curse them. They rever 24 other masters. Mahavir is not part of Hindu Pantheon.

Thanks for clarifying that.

Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
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