Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →
↑ ↓
CEMB → Forum → Life, The Universe & Everything → Religions and Gods → Religion and New Death Experiences

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts

New Britain
Today at 07:28 AM
General chat & discussion...
Today at 07:16 AM
Lights on the way
by akay
Yesterday at 07:55 AM
Pro Israel or Pro Palesti...
Yesterday at 04:01 AM
اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
May 04, 2024, 07:58 AM
Do humans have needed kno...
April 30, 2024, 06:51 PM
What's happened to the fo...
April 27, 2024, 08:30 AM
Qur'anic studies today
April 23, 2024, 02:50 AM
Do humans have needed kno...
April 20, 2024, 08:02 AM
Iran launches drones
April 13, 2024, 05:56 PM
عيد مبارك للجميع! ^_^
by akay
April 12, 2024, 12:01 PM
Eid-Al-Fitr
by akay
April 12, 2024, 08:06 AM

Theme Changer

 Topic: Religion and New Death Experiences

 (Read 8918 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Religion and New Death Experiences
     OP - November 29, 2008, 08:00 AM
    My mother had, what we new call, a "Near Death Experience".

    This is only one of a number of things which has shown me that religion,

    particularly Islam is bullshit.

    Has anyone here had, or no of, anyone who has been to the other side and come

    back?


    There will be no white flag above our door
  • Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
     Reply #1 - November 29, 2008, 08:05 AM
    I've heard all kindsa stories.

    I reckon a mechanism exists which makes death nicer. Shot of opiates into the system, pleasant images, so it's no bad when it finally happens.
    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
     Reply #2 - November 29, 2008, 08:12 AM
    Yeah,

    That's the short of it all isn't it?

    As you say,

    "When it really happens"
    There will be no white flag above our door
  • Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
     Reply #3 - November 29, 2008, 08:17 AM
    Half of my family work in the health system. People get the chance to choose between life and death (in these near-death type situations), so when they report them, they've decided to come back round. But in the process they've been presented with their personal heaven, with their favourite food, geography, climate, people etc.

    People who've been through it are never scared of death again.
    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
     Reply #4 - November 29, 2008, 08:58 AM
    I had an atheist friend who went through similar who was comforted by death being a 'release of consciousness'.
    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
     Reply #5 - November 29, 2008, 10:19 AM
    Quote from: Charles on November 29, 2008, 08:00 AM
    My mother had, what we new call, a "Near Death Experience".

    This is only one of a number of things which has shown me that religion,

    particularly Islam is bullshit.

    Has anyone here had, or no of, anyone who has been to the other side and come

    back?




    And what other side might that be, Chas?
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
     Reply #6 - November 29, 2008, 01:16 PM
    Quote from: panoptic on November 29, 2008, 08:58 AM
    I had an atheist friend who went through similar who was comforted by death being a 'release of consciousness'.


    This view is comforting to me, too.
    German ex-Muslim forum — My YouTube — List of Ex-Muslims —
    Wikis: en – de – fr – ar – tr
    CEMB-Chat
    I'm on an indefinite break...
  • Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
     Reply #7 - November 29, 2008, 01:53 PM
    Quote from: Aziz on November 29, 2008, 01:16 PM
    Quote from: panoptic on November 29, 2008, 08:58 AM
    I had an atheist friend who went through similar who was comforted by death being a 'release of consciousness'.


    This view is comforting to me, too.

    A what?  How on earth can be consciousness be 'released'?
  • Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
     Reply #8 - November 29, 2008, 01:58 PM
    Getting hung up on the poetry of the word chosen to describe death?
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
     Reply #9 - November 29, 2008, 02:04 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on November 29, 2008, 01:58 PM
    Getting hung up on the poetry of the word chosen to describe death?

    Generally words are used for the purpose of communication.  It is therefore a good idea to have a shared understanding of what they mean so that this purpose can be achieved.  Clarifying meanings is not pedantry, it's part of communication.  Otherwise where you get silly situations where someone asks for evidence and you respond by describing your feelings.

    In this case, perhaps you can explain the 'poetry' to me.  Then perhaps I can fully understand its 'beauty'.
  • Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
     Reply #10 - November 29, 2008, 02:09 PM
    Quote from: sparky on November 29, 2008, 02:04 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on November 29, 2008, 01:58 PM
    Getting hung up on the poetry of the word chosen to describe death?

    Generally words are used for the purpose of communication.  It is therefore a good idea to have a shared understanding of what they mean so that this purpose can be achieved.  Clarifying meanings is not pedantry, it's part of communication.  Otherwise where you get silly situations where someone asks for evidence and you respond by describing your feelings.

    In this case, perhaps you can explain the 'poetry' to me.  Then perhaps I can fully understand its 'beauty'.


    I'm not good at explaining to people who don't understand words, exactly why people choose to use specfic words in there sentences, which is why I'm not teacher.

    I have to be honest and say I am sort of surprised that you need it explained to you, much as I am suprised that any adult would need it explained to them.

    It seems so self explanatory to me, I could say "I will die" or I could say "I will be released" and each would mean the exact same thing to me, except one sounds nicer on my ears to me.

    It does not mean that I believe something of me will be released, just that I will be dead.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
     Reply #11 - November 30, 2008, 09:34 AM
    Quote from: BerberElla on November 29, 2008, 02:09 PM
    Quote from: sparky on November 29, 2008, 02:04 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on November 29, 2008, 01:58 PM
    Getting hung up on the poetry of the word chosen to describe death?

    Generally words are used for the purpose of communication.  It is therefore a good idea to have a shared understanding of what they mean so that this purpose can be achieved.  Clarifying meanings is not pedantry, it's part of communication.  Otherwise where you get silly situations where someone asks for evidence and you respond by describing your feelings.

    In this case, perhaps you can explain the 'poetry' to me.  Then perhaps I can fully understand its 'beauty'.


    I'm not good at explaining to people who don't understand words, exactly why people choose to use specfic words in there sentences, which is why I'm not teacher.

    I have to be honest and say I am sort of surprised that you need it explained to you, much as I am suprised that any adult would need it explained to them.

    It seems so self explanatory to me, I could say "I will die" or I could say "I will be released" and each would mean the exact same thing to me, except one sounds nicer on my ears to me.

    It does not mean that I believe something of me will be released, just that I will be dead.

    Someone that is 'released' generally has some experience of that 'release'.  For an atheist, a dead person has no such experience - consciousness dies with the body.  After death there is no 'I'.

    From your explanation, 'I will be released' is simply self-deception that has no relation to anything you believe about reality at all.  The fact that is appears blantantly contradictory to what an atheist would normally believe, is exactly why it needs to be explained.

    Thank you for obliging.

    Cheers,
    sparky
  • Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
     Reply #12 - November 30, 2008, 09:55 AM
    It sounds like you are saying an atheist must limit what words they wish to use just so you can't leap on them and get all silly about it.

    When i die, I will be released, who I am will be gone, I really don't care if you believe that is self deception since I know it's just a pretty way to put it.  Roll Eyes
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
     Reply #13 - November 30, 2008, 09:56 AM
    Weasel + word= Sparkyspeak.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
     Reply #14 - November 30, 2008, 09:59 AM
    Quote from: sparky on November 29, 2008, 01:53 PM
    Quote from: Aziz on November 29, 2008, 01:16 PM
    Quote from: panoptic on November 29, 2008, 08:58 AM
    I had an atheist friend who went through similar who was comforted by death being a 'release of consciousness'.


    This view is comforting to me, too.

    A what?  How on earth can be consciousness be 'released'?

    It's easy to understand unless you want to be obtuse.
    Dying brain cells= release of conciousness.
    That wasn't too difficult was it?
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
     Reply #15 - November 30, 2008, 10:05 AM
    The person who said that had been physically dead before and was brought round.

    Quote from: sparky on November 30, 2008, 09:34 AM
    Someone that is 'released' generally has some experience of that 'release'.  For an atheist, a dead person has no such experience - consciousness dies with the body.  After death there is no 'I'.


    It depends if you're seeing death as a discreet event, or a process.

    But yes 'I' is a function of neurology which doesn't persist after death.

    Quote from: sojournerlumus on November 30, 2008, 09:59 AM
    It's easy to understand unless you want to be obtuse.
    Dying brain cells= release of conciousness.

     = process
    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
     Reply #16 - November 30, 2008, 10:16 AM
    Quote from: panoptic on November 30, 2008, 10:05 AM
    The person who said that had been physically dead before and was brought round.

    Quote from: sparky on November 30, 2008, 09:34 AM
    Someone that is 'released' generally has some experience of that 'release'.  For an atheist, a dead person has no such experience - consciousness dies with the body.  After death there is no 'I'.


    It depends if you're seeing death as a discreet event, or a process.

    But yes 'I' is a function of neurology which doesn't persist after death.

    Quote from: sojournerlumus on November 30, 2008, 09:59 AM
    It's easy to understand unless you want to be obtuse.
    Dying brain cells= release of conciousness.

     = process

    I absolutely agree Pan but I was trying to keep it simple for obvious reasons.
    It takes quite some time for all bodily functions to splutter to a  complete halt and given the nature of all bodies, ie colonies of symbionts, who knows which bits linger on the longest. Any ideas?
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
     Reply #17 - November 30, 2008, 11:16 AM
    I do know digestion lingers on a bit... ;o
    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
     Reply #18 - November 30, 2008, 11:36 AM
    Quote from: panoptic on November 30, 2008, 11:16 AM
    I do know digestion lingers on a bit... ;o



    This is true...all those bacteria living in your digestive tract start eating their way out as soon as the stomach acid stops flowing.  Wink

    The gasses released by them are what makes the carcass look like a balloon after a bit. Meat balloon anyone?  Yum Yum
    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I remain.
  • Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
     Reply #19 - November 30, 2008, 01:45 PM
    I wonder what happens to some of the infective stuff lurking around inside you. Must be something that remains virulent or encysted.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
     Reply #20 - November 30, 2008, 06:53 PM
    Quote from: sojournerlumus on November 30, 2008, 01:45 PM
    I wonder what happens to some of the infective stuff lurking around inside you. Must be something that remains virulent or encysted.


    Luckily, most bacteria or viruses that cause sickness in people die off after a few hours of sub-optimal conditions in a dead body. But it's better to be sanitary and safer, than messy and sick. The Black Plague would have been less lethal if they would have taken care of the fleas, and knew more about sanitary practices.
    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I remain.
  • Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
     Reply #21 - December 01, 2008, 05:01 AM
    Quote from: BerberElla on November 30, 2008, 09:55 AM
    It sounds like you are saying an atheist must limit what words they wish to use just so you can't leap on them and get all silly about it.

    When i die, I will be released, who I am will be gone, I really don't care if you believe that is self deception since I know it's just a pretty way to put it.  Roll Eyes

    The words 'consciousness' and 'released' already have meanings.  Things that are dead or ceasing to exist are not 'released', they are dead. Putting these words together like this may make you feel better but actually misleads people as to what you believe is happening in death.  If you say to someone 'when I die, my consciousness will be released' you sound like a 'woo-woo' not an atheist.

    You can use what words you like but you should be aware about how they will generally be understood - not just by me, but by anyone.
  • Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
     Reply #22 - December 01, 2008, 05:02 AM
    Quote from: sojournerlumus on November 30, 2008, 09:56 AM
    Weasel + word= Sparkyspeak.

    You just get more and more rude, don't you.
  • Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
     Reply #23 - December 01, 2008, 05:04 AM
    Quote from: sojournerlumus on November 30, 2008, 09:59 AM
    Quote from: sparky on November 29, 2008, 01:53 PM
    Quote from: Aziz on November 29, 2008, 01:16 PM
    Quote from: panoptic on November 29, 2008, 08:58 AM
    I had an atheist friend who went through similar who was comforted by death being a 'release of consciousness'.


    This view is comforting to me, too.

    A what?  How on earth can be consciousness be 'released'?

    It's easy to understand unless you want to be obtuse.
    Dying brain cells= release of conciousness.
    That wasn't too difficult was it?

    Uh,generally 'dying brain cells=dying conciousness' if you are an atheist.  A prisoner who dies in Jail isn't generally refered to as having been 'released'.  A prisoner who is released from jail isn't generally thought to have died at that point.
  • Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
     Reply #24 - December 01, 2008, 05:29 AM
    When you die you're 'relinquishing' consciousness. That's all whistling2
    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
     Reply #25 - December 01, 2008, 07:38 AM
    Quote from: panoptic on December 01, 2008, 05:29 AM
    When you die you're 'relinquishing' consciousness. That's all whistling2

    And they accuse me of semantics!!

    You die, your consciousness dies. During that process, some funky stuff may happen, but in the end, you'll be dead.  End of story.

    I always thought atheists were proud of their indifference to death!

    Having said all that, when I had to tell someone over the phone that their friend had just died, I just couldn't bring myself to say 'dead'.  I kept saying 'not alive'...  So I sympathise with the difficulties...
  • Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
     Reply #26 - December 01, 2008, 08:18 AM
    Is it necessary for all atheists to disbelieve in any sort of after life?
    Budhhist and Jains don't believe in God, so technically they are atheists,  but they think conciousness continuous after death.
  • Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
     Reply #27 - December 01, 2008, 08:32 AM
    With NDE, my take on it is people experience what their subconscious has been conditioned to believe or expect or desire at the time of death.

    The stories vary so much about people see, though mostly a white light and some past relative encouraging them on or halos of Jesus or other deity.

    It's usually quite personal and based on the environment. Hence that is why I'd put little credibility on such reports.
    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
     Reply #28 - December 01, 2008, 08:36 AM
    Quote from: learn2bcalm on December 01, 2008, 08:18 AM
    Is it necessary for all atheists to disbelieve in any sort of after life?
    Budhhist and Jains don't believe in God, so technically they are atheists,  but they think conciousness continuous after death.


    Isn't Buddha considered to be and incarnation (avatar) of god Vishnu?

    Also doesn't Jains believe in Mahaveer for which there are many idols/statues which they worship like a god who is also part of the Hindu pantheon of gods?
    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Religion and New Death Experiences
     Reply #29 - December 01, 2008, 08:40 AM
    Quote from: a.ghazali on December 01, 2008, 08:36 AM
    Quote from: learn2bcalm on December 01, 2008, 08:18 AM
    Is it necessary for all atheists to disbelieve in any sort of after life?
    Budhhist and Jains don't believe in God, so technically they are atheists,  but they think conciousness continuous after death.


    Isn't Buddha considered to be and incarnation (avatar) of god Vishnu?

    Also doesn't Jains believe in Mahaveer for which there are many idols/statues which they worship like a god who is also part of the Hindu pantheon of gods?


    Buddhists don't belive Buddha to be incarnation of Vishnu. Minority of Hindus believe. Plus, Buddha is not mentioned in any of the pre-Buddha hindu texts. I guess, it was added later so that Hindus who like Buddha don't convert to Buddhism.

    Jains take life of Mahavir as an example. They rever him, they don't think he will give them boons or cure them or curse them. They rever 24 other masters. Mahavir is not part of Hindu Pantheon.
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »