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Theme Changer

 Topic: Why babies are abused and killed and God doesn't intervene?

 (Read 13158 times)
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  • Re: Why babies are abused and killed and God doesn't intervene?
     Reply #60 - November 30, 2008, 03:17 PM

    Quote
    Go read the thread.


    I read it already, you produced no evidence for God.

    Quote
    Are you admitting that 'your boat' completely lacks evidence for what you believe to be good and bad?


    Evolutionary psychologists clock up acres of man hours studying the nature and origins of concepts like good and bad.  I am not qualified to say what evidence their boat has, nor is it a field that even interests me very much.

    I'll say this last word on the subject though - science, for the foreseeable future, will not know everything, it will not give us answers to all the questions we have.  And for as long as that situation persists, there will always be people that resort to "God of the Gaps" theology.  I'm not one of those people.  If the jury is still out, I would prefer to say "we don't yet know" than jump to false conclusions.


    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Why babies are abused and killed and God doesn't intervene?
     Reply #61 - November 30, 2008, 03:20 PM

    Quote
    Clearly you weren't paying attention.  But even if I don't, it wouldn't mean that good or bad really exist.


    Clearly - I definitely thought you said your evidence was the Bible.  So what is it then?  Where's your evidence that God even exists?  Without it, you're in the same boat that you claim us to be in.

    He's on his hamster wheel in the sky again, and boy is he running.

    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Why babies are abused and killed and God doesn't intervene?
     Reply #62 - December 01, 2008, 09:49 AM

    Quote from: Cheetah
    I read it already, you produced no evidence for God.


    If you had read it, you would not have done such a poor job describing what I had pointed to as my evidence.  Given this, your evaluation of it means nothing at all.

    Quote from: Cheetah
    Evolutionary psychologists clock up acres of man hours studying the nature and origins of concepts like good and bad.  I am not qualified to say what evidence their boat has, nor is it a field that even interests me very much.


    Good and bad 'don't interest you'?  Don't you live as if good and bad exist?  Then what is the evidence for it?  If there is no evidence then why do you live as if they exist?  Do you live as if God exists even though you believe there is no evidence for it?

    All your demands for evidence look like just so much hypocrisy.

    Quote from: Cheetah
    I'll say this last word on the subject though - science, for the foreseeable future, will not know everything, it will not give us answers to all the questions we have.  And for as long as that situation persists, there will always be people that resort to "God of the Gaps" theology.  I'm not one of those people.  If the jury is still out, I would prefer to say "we don't yet know" than jump to false conclusions.

    Sure.  As long as you believe and live as if you 'don't know' good and bad exist, I have no problem with this position.
  • Re: Why babies are abused and killed and God doesn't intervene?
     Reply #63 - December 01, 2008, 07:32 PM

    Quote
    If you had read it, you would not have done such a poor job describing what I had pointed to as my evidence.  Given this, your evaluation of it means nothing at all.


    I read it just fine, and you have nothing which qualifies as evidence of God's existence - which is hardly surprising, as no one else has ever found any either.

    Quote
    Good and bad 'don't interest you'?  Don't you live as if good and bad exist?  Then what is the evidence for it?  If there is no evidence then why do you live as if they exist?  Do you live as if God exists even though you believe there is no evidence for it?



    Evolutionary psychology doesn't interest me.  Which makes your demands to me for evidence accrued by a field of science which I'm neither qualified in, nor an enthusiastic, well read amateur in, rather pointless.  You may as well ask me for evidence for Gravitational Theory, and when I say I don't know, demand "why do you live as if it exists then, why aren't you floating round in mid air instead of living as if gravity exists, if  you don't understand the evidence for it? "

    Quote
    All your demands for evidence look like just so much hypocrisy.


    So, unless I master every field of science, I am not allowed to ask anyone for evidence of anything?   wacko

    If somebody makes an assertion, I want to know what they are basing it on.  There is nothing hypocritical about that, unless I was claiming to be equally sure of some other theory without evidence, which I am not claiming. 

    Quote
    As long as you believe and live as if you 'don't know' good and bad exist, I have no problem with this position.


    I'm not sure what such a lifestyle would entail, but if you mean an amoral lifestyle, then no I don't live like that.  I make judgements about what I believe to be right and wrong all the time, according to my own conscience.  Now, whether that conscience is formed by a deity, an inherited gene sequence, a cultural construct passed on through upbringing, or something else, or a mixture - I don't know.  I know it exists as a 'normal' feature of the human race, ie, normal meaning non-sociopathic.  I also know that versions of it exist in other social animals.

    That's about the limit of my knowledge on evolutionary psychology.  Its about the limit of my interest too.  goodnight





    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Why babies are abused and killed and God doesn't intervene?
     Reply #64 - December 02, 2008, 02:20 PM

    Quote
    I read it just fine, and you have nothing which qualifies as evidence of God's existence - which is hardly surprising, as no one else has ever found any either.


    Well seeing as you got it wrong about what I was even claiming, I have little confidence on your judgement on the issue.

    Quote from: Cheetah
    Evolutionary psychology doesn't interest me.  Which makes your demands to me for evidence accrued by a field of science which I'm neither qualified in, nor an enthusiastic, well read amateur in, rather pointless.  You may as well ask me for evidence for Gravitational Theory, and when I say I don't know, demand "why do you live as if it exists then, why aren't you floating round in mid air instead of living as if gravity exists, if  you don't understand the evidence for it?


    What are you talking about.  The observation that you aren't floating around in mid-air and nor is anyone else is enough to tell you that it exists without understanding gravitational theory.  You have sufficient evidence to make your decisions.  Your 'faith' in gravity is supported by your 'evidence'.  What is the parallel observation that tells you that a particular action is either wrong or right or that these classifications even exist outside of your own mind?

    Quote from: Cheetah
    So, unless I master every field of science, I am not allowed to ask anyone for evidence of anything?

    Don't be dense.  Pick an action that you think is 'bad'.  Ask youself 'how do I know?'  Then you'll have your evidence.  It's not complicated at all.

    Quote from: Cheetah
    If somebody makes an assertion, I want to know what they are basing it on.  There is nothing hypocritical about that, unless I was claiming to be equally sure of some other theory without evidence, which I am not claiming. 

     

    You don't make judgements about right and wrong?  Are these not assertions?  So being asked for your evidence is really no different to anyone making an assertion about God and being asked for the evidence.

    Quote from: Cheetah
    I'm not sure what such a lifestyle would entail, but if you mean an amoral lifestyle, then no I don't live like that.

     

    How do you know you don't live like that?  How do you know what 'moral' is that you can judge your lifestyle not to be 'amoral'?  If good and bad don't really exist then your lifestyle is, by definition, amoral.  If you don't think it is, how do you know?

    Quote from: Cheetah
    I make judgements about what I believe to be right and wrong all the time, according to my own conscience.


    You conscience is unique to you.  Yes, other people also have a conscience but their may not tell them the same things about what is right and what is wrong than yours do.

    If I said that 'a voice inside my head' told me that God existed - would you think this was adequate evidence that he did?  So should your conscience be enough evidence that right and wrong really exist?

    Quote from: Cheetah
    Now, whether that conscience is formed by a deity, an inherited gene sequence, a cultural construct passed on through upbringing, or something else, or a mixture - I don't know


    Knowing its source wouldn't tell you if it was actually 'true'.  I.e. that because your conscience tells you that it is wrong to kill someone (I assume it does), that this action actually is wrong, say, for other people as well.  If their conscience didn't tell them that it was wrong to kill someone, would that mean it was actually ok?  Why should your conscience dictate right and wrong for someone else?  It wouldn't tell us whether we 'should' listen to our conscience or not.  It seems that we have a choice - we seem to be able to live for sometime with a sense of guilt and regularly asked ourselves whether our guilt is really warranted or not.  I.e. we are still looking for reasons to evaluate our consciences.  What is the evidence behind those reasons?

    Quote from: Cheetah
    I know it exists as a 'normal' feature of the human race, ie, normal meaning non-sociopathic.  I also know that versions of it exist in other social animals.
    That's about the limit of my knowledge on evolutionary psychology.  Its about the limit of my interest too. 

     

    If you had really read the previous thread, you would know that this was a key part of my reasons for believing in God.  As far as I can see, the problem we face as humans regarding knowing right and wrong is something that needs to be 'explained'.  The key issue isn't knowing where our conscience comes from - it's knowing if it can really be trusted.
  • Re: Why babies are abused and killed and God doesn't intervene?
     Reply #65 - December 03, 2008, 06:49 PM

    Quote
    If you had really read the previous thread, you would know that this was a key part of my reasons for believing in God.


    I do know that sparky because I did really read the previous thread.  Its just not evidence for God's existence, that's all.  And without evidence you are in the same boat you claim atheists to be in. I doubt you'll see that in a million years, if your failure to understand the point I made using gravity as an example is anything to go by.

    So, yet again...... goodnight

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Why babies are abused and killed and God doesn't intervene?
     Reply #66 - December 03, 2008, 08:05 PM

    Quote
    If you had really read the previous thread, you would know that this was a key part of my reasons for believing in God.


    I do know that sparky because I did really read the previous thread.  Its just not evidence for God's existence, that's all.  And without evidence you are in the same boat you claim atheists to be in. I doubt you'll see that in a million years, if your failure to understand the point I made using gravity as an example is anything to go by.

    So, yet again...... goodnight

    And I gave you a reason why gravity is a poor analogy.  You have good reasons to believe in its existence based on everyday observations.  What are the observations that lead you to believe good and evil exist?  It is really not a difficult question and many atheists have attempted an answer without needing to know anything about evolutionary psychology.

    I think it's premature to claim it is not evidence for God's existence when you cannot give a basic reason why you think good and evil exist and yet you continue to live as if they do.

    And if you did know that this was part of my evidence, why didn't you say that rather than describing my evidence as 'the bible'?

    But goodnight anyway...
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