Shaytan 1: DON'T WEAR HIJAB, YOU WILL LOOK UGLY

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Shaytan 1: DON'T WEAR HIJAB, YOU WILL LOOK UGLY
OP - November 18, 2008, 05:13 PM

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=i5kNNn-hciQ&feature=rec-HM-fresh+div
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Re: Shaytan 1: DON'T WEAR HIJAB, YOU WILL LOOK UGLY
Reply #1 - November 18, 2008, 05:40 PM

Unfortunately, that vid could work to make some poor girl put on her hijab.

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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Re: Shaytan 1: DON'T WEAR HIJAB, YOU WILL LOOK UGLY
Reply #2 - November 18, 2008, 05:46 PM

Hahaha. That's hilarious. First, I love how they used the medieval Christian image of the devil. That's pretty funny. Also that they made the devil into the stereotypical effeminate gay man. Veeeeery interesting.

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The cloud climbs up to heaven;
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Re: Shaytan 1: DON'T WEAR HIJAB, YOU WILL LOOK UGLY
Reply #3 - November 18, 2008, 05:53 PM

Back in the early nineties, BerberElla, my wife, Skovia, used to wear a headscarf all the time when she lost her hair through chemotherapy and radiotherapy for lukaemia. She still does sometimes when she's just knocking around the house or we're flopping out on the terrace. I think she looks really sweet like that. If the idea of the hijab is to make women unattractive, I'm afraid it doesn't work on me. Neil

We are not here to fight religion. We are here to make religion irrelevant. NM
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Re: Shaytan 1: DON'T WEAR HIJAB, YOU WILL LOOK UGLY
Reply #4 - November 18, 2008, 05:54 PM

*snort*

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I remain.
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Re: Shaytan 1: DON'T WEAR HIJAB, YOU WILL LOOK UGLY
Reply #5 - November 18, 2008, 06:56 PM

Quote from: Lana on November 18, 2008, 05:46 PM
Hahaha. That's hilarious. First, I love how they used the medieval Christian image of the devil. That's pretty funny. Also that they made the devil into the stereotypical effeminate gay man. Veeeeery interesting.

A sneaky devil popping out from behind furniture, saying:

"Go on... be naughty... it's soooo much fun... Muwahahahahaha!"

is indeed hilarious and cartoonish - but what else is one supposed to imagine when reading these words (verses 11 to 27 of Sura 'Araaf) :

It is We Who created you and gave you shape; then We bade the angels prostrate to Adam, and they prostrate; not so Iblis; He refused to be of those who prostrate.

(Allah) said: "What prevented thee from prostrating when I commanded thee?" He said: "I am better than he: Thou didst create me from fire, and him from clay."

(Allah) said: "Get thee down from this: it is not for thee to be arrogant here: get out, for thou art of the meanest (of creatures)."

He said: "Give me respite till the day they are raised up."

(Allah) said: "Be thou among those who have respite."

He said: "Because thou hast thrown me out of the way, lo! I will lie in wait for them on thy straight way:

"Then will I assault them from before them and behind them, from their right and their left: Nor wilt thou find, in most of them, gratitude (for thy mercies)."

(Allah) said: "Get out from this, disgraced and expelled. If any of them follow thee,- Hell will I fill with you all.

"O Adam! dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden, and enjoy (its good things) as ye wish: but approach not this tree, or ye run into harm and transgression."

Then began Satan to whisper suggestions to them, bringing openly before their minds all their shame that was hidden from them (before): he said: "Your Lord only forbade you this tree, lest ye should become angels or such beings as live for ever."

And he swore to them both, that he was their sincere adviser.

So by deceit he brought about their fall: when they tasted of the tree, their shame became manifest to them, and they began to sew together the leaves of the garden over their bodies. And their Lord called unto them: "Did I not forbid you that tree, and tell you that Satan was an avowed enemy unto you?"

They said: "Our Lord! We have wronged our own souls: If thou forgive us not and bestow not upon us Thy Mercy, we shall certainly be lost."

(Allah) said: "Get ye down. With enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood,- for a time."

He said: "Therein shall ye live, and therein shall ye die; but from it shall ye be taken out (at last)."

O ye Children of Adam! We have bestowed raiment upon you to cover your shame, as well as to be an adornment to you. But the raiment of righteousness,- that is the best. Such are among the Signs of Allah, that they may receive admonition!

O ye Children of Adam! Let not Satan seduce you, in the same manner as He got your parents out of the Garden, stripping them of their raiment, to expose their shame: for he and his tribe watch you from a position where ye cannot see them: We made the evil ones friends (only) to those without faith.
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Re: Shaytan 1: DON'T WEAR HIJAB, YOU WILL LOOK UGLY
Reply #6 - November 18, 2008, 07:57 PM

I think that phrase where allah banishes iblis is the coolest thing I’ve ever encountered in Islâm. I regularly say to folks who mouth off at me: “Get down out of it! It is not for you to be haughty here, so GET OUT! You are among the humbled…”

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Re: Shaytan 1: DON'T WEAR HIJAB, YOU WILL LOOK UGLY
Reply #7 - November 18, 2008, 09:19 PM

The title is pretty funny too.

Quote from: Lana on November 18, 2008, 05:46 PM
Also that they made the devil into the stereotypical effeminate gay man.

I've actually never come across this stereotype before. Never a gay devil. lol

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Re: Shaytan 1: DON'T WEAR HIJAB, YOU WILL LOOK UGLY
Reply #8 - November 19, 2008, 01:18 AM

Quote from: Hassan on November 18, 2008, 06:56 PM
Quote from: Lana on November 18, 2008, 05:46 PM
Hahaha. That's hilarious. First, I love how they used the medieval Christian image of the devil. That's pretty funny. Also that they made the devil into the stereotypical effeminate gay man. Veeeeery interesting.

A sneaky devil popping out from behind furniture, saying:

"Go on... be naughty... it's soooo much fun... Muwahahahahaha!"

is indeed hilarious and cartoonish - but what else is one supposed to imagine when reading these words (verses 11 to 27 of Sura 'Araaf) :

It is We Who created you and gave you shape; then We bade the angels prostrate to Adam, and they prostrate; not so Iblis; He refused to be of those who prostrate.

(Allah) said: "What prevented thee from prostrating when I commanded thee?" He said: "I am better than he: Thou didst create me from fire, and him from clay."

(Allah) said: "Get thee down from this: it is not for thee to be arrogant here: get out, for thou art of the meanest (of creatures)."

He said: "Give me respite till the day they are raised up."

(Allah) said: "Be thou among those who have respite."

He said: "Because thou hast thrown me out of the way, lo! I will lie in wait for them on thy straight way:

"Then will I assault them from before them and behind them, from their right and their left: Nor wilt thou find, in most of them, gratitude (for thy mercies)."

(Allah) said: "Get out from this, disgraced and expelled. If any of them follow thee,- Hell will I fill with you all.

"O Adam! dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden, and enjoy (its good things) as ye wish: but approach not this tree, or ye run into harm and transgression."

Then began Satan to whisper suggestions to them, bringing openly before their minds all their shame that was hidden from them (before): he said: "Your Lord only forbade you this tree, lest ye should become angels or such beings as live for ever."

And he swore to them both, that he was their sincere adviser.

So by deceit he brought about their fall: when they tasted of the tree, their shame became manifest to them, and they began to sew together the leaves of the garden over their bodies. And their Lord called unto them: "Did I not forbid you that tree, and tell you that Satan was an avowed enemy unto you?"

They said: "Our Lord! We have wronged our own souls: If thou forgive us not and bestow not upon us Thy Mercy, we shall certainly be lost."

(Allah) said: "Get ye down. With enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood,- for a time."

He said: "Therein shall ye live, and therein shall ye die; but from it shall ye be taken out (at last)."

O ye Children of Adam! We have bestowed raiment upon you to cover your shame, as well as to be an adornment to you. But the raiment of righteousness,- that is the best. Such are among the Signs of Allah, that they may receive admonition!

O ye Children of Adam! Let not Satan seduce you, in the same manner as He got your parents out of the Garden, stripping them of their raiment, to expose their shame: for he and his tribe watch you from a position where ye cannot see them: We made the evil ones friends (only) to those without faith.

There will be no white flag above our door
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Re: Shaytan 1: DON'T WEAR HIJAB, YOU WILL LOOK UGLY
Reply #9 - November 19, 2008, 02:19 AM

Quote from: Iggy on November 18, 2008, 09:19 PM
The title is pretty funny too.

Quote from: Lana on November 18, 2008, 05:46 PM
Also that they made the devil into the stereotypical effeminate gay man.

I've actually never come across this stereotype before. Never a gay devil. lol

Lol. I think you misunderstood me. I meant that the devil was acting like a stereotypical effeminate gay guy, which is funny, like it's an episode of Sex and the City.

Though it has no bridge,
The cloud climbs up to heaven;
It does not seek the aid
Of Gautama's sutras.

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Re: Shaytan 1: DON'T WEAR HIJAB, YOU WILL LOOK UGLY
Reply #10 - November 19, 2008, 07:16 AM

I always liked the way it was worded in this one translation (I can't remember which), I thought it sounded so badass, "Get you out" or "Get you down from out of here"
:D

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Re: Shaytan 1: DON'T WEAR HIJAB, YOU WILL LOOK UGLY
Reply #11 - November 20, 2008, 01:29 AM

Quote from: BerberElla on November 18, 2008, 05:40 PM

Unfortunately, that vid could work to make some poor girl put on her hijab.

Hello BerberElla,

Can it be considered a bad thing if a girl decides, upon her own free-will, to cover her head? And that makes her happy? And brings a form of contentment to her life?

...nor shall they encompass aught of His knowledge, except as He willeth...
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Re: Shaytan 1: DON'T WEAR HIJAB, YOU WILL LOOK UGLY
Reply #12 - November 20, 2008, 06:14 AM

But is it ever entirely out of her own free will? If she is taught that NOT to cover her head is a sin and threatened with hellfire?

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Re: Shaytan 1: DON'T WEAR HIJAB, YOU WILL LOOK UGLY
Reply #13 - November 20, 2008, 07:40 AM

Quote from: Hassan1 on November 20, 2008, 01:29 AM
Quote from: BerberElla on November 18, 2008, 05:40 PM

Unfortunately, that vid could work to make some poor girl put on her hijab.

Hello BerberElla,

Can it be considered a bad thing if a girl decides, upon her own free-will, to cover her head? And that makes her happy? And brings a form of contentment to her life?

The problem is that what is truly free-will when one is being frightened with being thrown into Hell forever. I also know hundreds of Hijabis who insist it is their choice and they give a long list of 'good' reasons, but how much of a free choice can it really be when underlining it is the belief that one must do it or God will be angry?

I used to say stuff was 'my choice and my free-will' - which I suppose it was, but I did it with a heavy does of fear of hell - even if I didn't admit it at the time.

Now I get messages 'return to Islam or burn in Hell' - the person saying that to me is clearly admitting what scares him - though if I ask him, he will deny hell is the motivating factor and say he does what he does out of his 'free-will'.
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Re: Shaytan 1: DON'T WEAR HIJAB, YOU WILL LOOK UGLY
Reply #14 - November 20, 2008, 08:03 AM

Quote from: Hassan on November 20, 2008, 07:40 AM
how much of a free choice can it really be when underlining it is the belief that one must do it or God will be angry?

Some people do it just because they think it pleases their Creator. I didn't fear hell when I started to doubt, I only feared not being able to be near to Allah.

"O Allah! If I worship You for fear of Hell, burn me in Hell.
And if I worship You in hope of Paradise, exclude me from Paradise.
But if I worship You for Your Own sake, grudge me not Your everlasting Beauty."
-Rabia Al-'Adawiyya

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Re: Shaytan 1: DON'T WEAR HIJAB, YOU WILL LOOK UGLY
Reply #15 - November 20, 2008, 08:28 AM

Quote from: Hassan on November 20, 2008, 07:40 AM

The problem is that what is truly free-will when one is being frightened with being thrown into Hell forever. I also know hundreds of Hijabis who insist it is their choice and they give a long list of 'good' reasons, but how much of a free choice can it really be when underlining it is the belief that one must do it or God will be angry?

If it comes out of their own mouth, you have to assume it is free will. When you were religious, if I had grabbed your prayer mat and binned it, you would have told me to 'pack it in!', you wouldn't have told me about your own free will, you would have just thought me mad and warned me I might burn in hell if I'm not careful. Like the pious people who may or may not have written the Koran, it matters not a jot whether they think they are guided or not, what matters is that they don't try to make me join in and that I don't stop them wearing silly clothes.

Ha Ha.
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Re: Shaytan 1: DON'T WEAR HIJAB, YOU WILL LOOK UGLY
Reply #16 - November 20, 2008, 08:36 AM

***""O Allah! If I worship You for fear of Hell, burn me in Hell. And if I worship You in hope of Paradise, exclude me from Paradise. But if I worship You for Your Own sake, grudge me not Your everlasting Beauty." -Rabia Al-'Adawiyya***

I'd not come across that before, Awais. Thanks. At first glance, the sentiment is admirable. But it does presuppose the existence of a terrifying hell and a wonderful heaven and a divinity's sole choice in where you should end up. And the plea is quite obviously one for a place in paradise. Really, it means very little. Neil

We are not here to fight religion. We are here to make religion irrelevant. NM
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Re: Shaytan 1: DON'T WEAR HIJAB, YOU WILL LOOK UGLY
Reply #17 - November 20, 2008, 08:41 AM

it's not paradise, it's being near to Allah, seeing his face and such, which I guess can be a kind of 'paradise'. On the same note, it is attributed to her:

Quote
One day, she was seen running through the streets of Basra carrying a torch in one hand and a bucket of water in the other. When asked what she was doing, she said,

"I want to put out the fires of Hell, and burn down the rewards of Paradise. They block the way to God. I do not want to worship from fear of punishment or for the promise of reward, but simply for the love of God."

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Re: Shaytan 1: DON'T WEAR HIJAB, YOU WILL LOOK UGLY
Reply #18 - November 20, 2008, 08:49 AM

***"I want to put out the fires of Hell, and burn down the rewards of Paradise. They block the way to God. I do not want to worship from fear of punishment or for the promise of reward, but simply for the love of God.***

Ah, I see. The love of a god so powerful that she can burn down his heaven with a torch and put out his hellfire with a bucket of water. OK, so it's allegorical. Seems to have a bee in her bonnet over such a simple point, though. The lady doeth protest o'er much, methinks. Neil

We are not here to fight religion. We are here to make religion irrelevant. NM
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Re: Shaytan 1: DON'T WEAR HIJAB, YOU WILL LOOK UGLY
Reply #19 - November 20, 2008, 08:52 AM

I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
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Re: Shaytan 1: DON'T WEAR HIJAB, YOU WILL LOOK UGLY
Reply #20 - November 20, 2008, 06:09 PM

I used to do it in a effort to make myself sexless. It didn't work. You can't hide that you're a woman and it will always be used against you. I don't do it now because it's a Muslim thing and I don't want to identify with that, but I still do it in spirit by wearing layers and baggy clothes (in a stylish manner), simply because I can do without the leering catcalls as I go about my day.

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell
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Re: Shaytan 1: DON'T WEAR HIJAB, YOU WILL LOOK UGLY
Reply #21 - November 20, 2008, 08:35 PM

Quote from: ladyofshalott on November 20, 2008, 06:09 PM
I used to do it in a effort to make myself sexless. It didn't work. You can't hide that you're a woman and it will always be used against you. I don't do it now because it's a Muslim thing and I don't want to identify with that, but I still do it in spirit by wearing layers and baggy clothes (in a stylish manner), simply because I can do without the leering catcalls as I go about my day.

I know what you mean - the leering catcalls from all the women around here.

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Re: Shaytan 1: DON'T WEAR HIJAB, YOU WILL LOOK UGLY
Reply #22 - November 20, 2008, 11:38 PM

Quote from: Jack Torrance on November 20, 2008, 08:28 AM
'pack it in!'

Or to quote Hot Fuzz: “Pack it in, Frank, you silly bastard!”

"At 8:47 I do a grenade jump off a ladder."
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