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Theme Changer

 Poll

  • Question: Do you think the religious books are fiction invented to control the masses?
  • Yes - 7 (25%)
  • No - 4 (14.3%)
  • Maybe - 4 (14.3%)
  • Without fucking doubt! - 13 (46.4%)
  • Total Voters: 28

 Topic: Fiction or Truth?

 (Read 10024 times)
  • Previous page 1 2« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: Fiction or Truth?
     Reply #30 - November 19, 2008, 09:34 AM

    Yeah, but you believe a lot of nonsense.
    Like that Calpurnius Piso may have a hand in writing the gospels!  Cheesy

    As if a member of the Roman aristocracy generations before Jesus´birth cared a whit about the remote backwater of Judaea and the weirdo Jews in it, let alone devise a plan, that after THREE HUNDRED YEARS converted about 10% of the population, no more... sure!  Afro


    Cheesy

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Fiction or Truth?
     Reply #31 - November 19, 2008, 09:52 AM

    I'd be cautious in saying that all religious texts were based on efforts to try and control people. 


    The Abrahamic faiths I believe were exactly that.


    Yeah, but you believe a lot of nonsense.
    Like that Calpurnius Piso may have a hand in writing the gospels!  Cheesy

    As if a member of the Roman aristocracy generations before Jesus´birth cared a whit about the remote backwater of Judaea and the weirdo Jews in it, let alone devise a plan, that after THREE HUNDRED YEARS converted about 10% of the population, no more... sure!  Afro



    Wondered when you'd pipe up. It's ridiculous all the nonsensical things I 'believe', isn't it? Still, at least I'm not a hypocrite with it Cheesy

     It must be wonderful in Dio World where plausible stories like someone inventing the bible for gain don't get a look in, but the 'miracles' of the Bible, well, of course they're true!! You religious folk, you make up for the havoc you create with your amusing little foibles (almost).

    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Fiction or Truth?
     Reply #32 - November 19, 2008, 09:54 AM

    You're admirably tolerant, Hassan. I notice this in your videos, too. It speaks well of you.

    You may be right. But this leaves us with a choice between liars and madmen, does it not?

    Best. Neil


    Tolerant or gullible?

    Madmen and liars, you got it! In the words of Mark Twain:
    "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”


    "In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination'

    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Fiction or Truth?
     Reply #33 - November 19, 2008, 10:58 AM

    I'd be cautious in saying that all religious texts were based on efforts to try and control people. 


    The Abrahamic faiths I believe were exactly that.


    Yeah, but you believe a lot of nonsense.
    Like that Calpurnius Piso may have a hand in writing the gospels!  Cheesy

    As if a member of the Roman aristocracy generations before Jesus´birth cared a whit about the remote backwater of Judaea and the weirdo Jews in it, let alone devise a plan, that after THREE HUNDRED YEARS converted about 10% of the population, no more... sure!  Afro



    Wondered when you'd pipe up. It's ridiculous all the nonsensical things I 'believe', isn't it? Still, at least I'm not a hypocrite with it Cheesy

     It must be wonderful in Dio World where plausible stories like someone inventing the bible for gain don't get a look in, but the 'miracles' of the Bible, well, of course they're true!! You religious folk, you make up for the havoc you create with your amusing little foibles (almost).


    there are worse things than being called a hypocrite by you, who has no clue or understanding but his bigoted, semi-informed notions about what I believe or don´t believe, Jack.
    Worse things like - being totally UN-amusing, not to mention falling for the crappiest of pseudo-"scientific" conspiracy-theories.  Roll Eyes
  • Re: Fiction or Truth?
     Reply #34 - November 19, 2008, 11:03 AM


    there are worse things than being called a hypocrite by you, who has no clue or understanding but his bigoted, semi-informed notions about what I believe or don´t believe, Jack.
    Worse things like - being totally UN-amusing, not to mention falling for the crappiest of pseudo-"scientific" conspiracy-theories.  Roll Eyes



    Do you mind other people calling you a hypocrite, or just me?

    I haven't 'fallen' fro anything, I'm just questioning, something you as a disciple are not allowed to do, because you are under the thumb of the church.

    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Fiction or Truth?
     Reply #35 - November 19, 2008, 11:09 AM

    Jack-o, I am under nobody´s "thumb". The church couldn´t do a lot about it, if I "examined" the likes of Dan Brown, like you do. I CHOSE to be catholic of my own volition, and after checking various other avenues, fyi, and you know nothing whatsoever about the Church and her teachings except some warped propaganda. You don´t even really know or understand what I don´t like or criticise about islam, yet accuse me of hypocrisy. Why should I take anything you say about me seriously?
    I may not be a genius, but I can smell total crap like the conspiracy nonsense you referred to, when it´s put under my nose.  Roll Eyes
    Again, you are under an illusion.
    And again you prefer talking about me and my supposed moral and other shortcomings, instead of the arguments I brought forth... coincidence?  whistling2
  • Re: Fiction or Truth?
     Reply #36 - November 19, 2008, 11:15 AM

    . I CHOSE to be catholic of my own volition,



    I know. How sad, Di-O.

    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Fiction or Truth?
     Reply #37 - November 19, 2008, 11:16 AM

    . I CHOSE to be catholic of my own volition,



    I know. How sad, Di-O.

     Cheesy That the best you can come up with? How sad is THAT!  bunny
  • Re: Fiction or Truth?
     Reply #38 - November 19, 2008, 11:23 AM

    . I CHOSE to be catholic of my own volition,



    I know. How sad, Di-O.

     Cheesy That the best you can come up with? How sad is THAT!  bunny



    I don't want to rub your nose in it, you have to live with it, I will pray for you Cheesy


    Certainly it looks like you and your two buddies are getting their ass kicked in this pollO0

    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Fiction or Truth?
     Reply #39 - November 19, 2008, 11:25 AM

    . I CHOSE to be catholic of my own volition,



    I know. How sad, Di-O.

     Cheesy That the best you can come up with? How sad is THAT!  bunny



    I don't want to rub your nose in it, you have to live with it, I will pray for you Cheesy


    wish I could say "nice try" to that - but am afraid it wasn´t even that!  bunny

    And Jack - do even YOU assume, the poll-results on an avowedly atheist website (at least according to you) about this whacko theory are anything but hot air? Truth isn´t a democratic notion.
  • Re: Fiction or Truth?
     Reply #40 - November 19, 2008, 12:15 PM

    . I CHOSE to be catholic of my own volition,



    I know. How sad, Di-O.

     Cheesy That the best you can come up with? How sad is THAT!  bunny



    I don't want to rub your nose in it, you have to live with it, I will pray for you Cheesy


    wish I could say "nice try" to that - but am afraid it wasn´t even that!  bunny

    And Jack - do even YOU assume, the poll-results on an avowedly atheist website (at least according to you) about this whacko theory are anything but hot air? Truth isn´t a democratic notion.





    It's hardly an 'avowedly atheist' site. But yes, one would have thought most religionsists would steer clear of a site like this. There is one reason why they might choose to hang out here though - to bash Islam behind their cloak of whatever wacko cult they personally belong to.

    Look, I'm glad you believe in your religion, I really hope it brings you the happiness you feel it allows. You're unlikely to change your mind at this late stage of the proceedings, for your sake, I hope the bitter taste of b/s will be worth it in the end. Afro

    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Fiction or Truth?
     Reply #41 - November 19, 2008, 12:31 PM

    Here's a couple more quotes from thet well known conspiracy theorist Mark Twain, what a guy:


    'The Christian's Bible is a drug store. Its contents remain the same; but the medical practice changes.... The world has corrected the Bible. The church never corrects it; and also never fails to drop in at the tail of the procession -- and take the credit of the correction. During many ages there were witches. The Bible said so. the Bible commanded that they should not be allowed to live. Therefore the Church, after eight hundred years, gathered up its halters, thumb-screws, and firebrands, and set about its holy work in earnest. She worked hard at it night and day during nine centuries and imprisoned, tortured, hanged, and burned whole hordes and armies of witches, and washed the Christian world clean with their foul blood.
         Then it was discovered that there was no such thing as witches, and never had been. One does not know whether to laugh or to cry.... There are no witches. The witch text remains; only the practice has changed. Hell fire is gone, but the text remains. Infant damnation is gone, but the text remains. More than two hundred death penalties are gone from the law books, but the texts that authorized them remain.'


    "Nevertheless we have this curious spectacle: daily the trained parrot in the pulpit gravely delivers himself of these ironies, which he has acquired at second-hand and adopted without examination, to a trained congregation which accepts them without examination, and neither the speaker nor the hearer laughs at himself. "


    "If I were to construct a God I would furnish Him with some way and qualities and characteristics which the Present lacks. He would not stoop to ask for any man's compliments, praises, flatteries; and He would be far above exacting them. I would have Him as self-respecting as the better sort of man in these regards. He would not be a merchant, a trader. He would not buy these things. He would not sell, or offer to sell, temporary benefits of the joys of eternity for the product called worship. I would have Him as dignified as the better sort of man in this regard. He would value no love but the love born of kindnesses conferred; not that born of benevolences contracted for. Repentance in a man's heart for a wrong done would cancel and annul that sin; and no verbal prayers for forgiveness be required or desired or expected of that man.  In His Bible there would be no Unforgiveable Sin. He would recognize in Himself the Author and Inventor of Sin and Author and Inventor of the Vehicle and Appliances for its commission; and would place the whole responsibility where it would of right belong: upon Himself, the only Sinner.
         He would not be a jealous God -- a trait so small that even men despise it in each other.
         He would not boast.
         He would keep private His admirations of Himself; He would regard self-praise as unbecoming the dignity of his position.
         He would not have the spirit of vengeance in His heart. Then it would not issue from His lips.
         There would not be any hell -- except the one we live in from the cradle to the grave.
         There would not be any heaven -- the kind described in the world's Bibles.
         He would spend some of His eternities in trying to forgive Himself for making man unhappy when he could have made him happy with the same effort and he would spend the rest of them in studying astronomy."
    -- Mark Twain, Notebook



    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Fiction or Truth?
     Reply #42 - November 19, 2008, 12:35 PM

    Can you come up with anything even less to the point of your Calpurnius Piso theory, than those Marc Twain rantings? I mean - it WILL be hard, but you can try, Jack...

    oh, and as for again questioning my right to be on this site - I suppose, only teetotallers are allowed to criticise a specific brand of beer, wine or whiskey they think below par? Well - to you, am sure it´s so. Way to go, logicwise!  Afro
  • Re: Fiction or Truth?
     Reply #43 - November 19, 2008, 12:47 PM

    Can you come up with anything even less to the point of your Calpurnius Piso theory, than those Marc Twain rantings? I mean - it WILL be hard, but you can try, Jack...

    oh, and as for again questioning my right to be on this site - I suppose, only teetotallers are allowed to criticise a specific brand of beer, wine or whiskey they think below par? Well - to you, am sure it´s so. Way to go, logicwise!  Afro



    This isn't all about you Dio, I posted the quotes for general consumption.

    As for your analogy, it's more like do alcoholics have the right to slur drug addicts, as I've already said. A child of 5 could understand the logic, but not a grown up catholic, oh no.

    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Fiction or Truth?
     Reply #44 - November 19, 2008, 12:51 PM

    Can you come up with anything even less to the point of your Calpurnius Piso theory, than those Marc Twain rantings? I mean - it WILL be hard, but you can try, Jack...

    oh, and as for again questioning my right to be on this site - I suppose, only teetotallers are allowed to criticise a specific brand of beer, wine or whiskey they think below par? Well - to you, am sure it´s so. Way to go, logicwise!  Afro



    This isn't all about you Dio, I posted the quotes for general consumption.

    As for your analogy, it's more like do alcoholics have the right to slur drug addicts, as I've already said. A child of 5 could understand the logic, but not a grown up catholic, oh no.


    What I said wasn´t about me, either. Whether I read it or the general public - nothing in your quote is of relevance to your theory. Or is it?
    And the alcoholics would be right, too in what they say about the drug addicts - or could be, anyway. Not that your logic was worth tuppence, since it depends on an entirely ideological basis.

    Nevermind. Logic isn´t your strong point, Jack. Am sure you have others, though.  Wink
  • Re: Fiction or Truth?
     Reply #45 - November 19, 2008, 05:19 PM

    Can you come up with anything even less to the point of your Calpurnius Piso theory, than those Marc Twain rantings? I mean - it WILL be hard, but you can try, Jack...

    oh, and as for again questioning my right to be on this site - I suppose, only teetotallers are allowed to criticise a specific brand of beer, wine or whiskey they think below par? Well - to you, am sure it´s so. Way to go, logicwise!  Afro



    This isn't all about you Dio, I posted the quotes for general consumption.

    As for your analogy, it's more like do alcoholics have the right to slur drug addicts, as I've already said. A child of 5 could understand the logic, but not a grown up catholic, oh no.


    What I said wasn´t about me, either. Whether I read it or the general public - nothing in your quote is of relevance to your theory. Or is it?
    And the alcoholics would be right, too in what they say about the drug addicts - or could be, anyway. Not that your logic was worth tuppence, since it depends on an entirely ideological basis.

    Nevermind. Logic isn´t your strong point, Jack. Am sure you have others, though.  Wink



    It's reached that point. Yawn.

    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Fiction or Truth?
     Reply #46 - November 19, 2008, 06:21 PM

    its not fiction its just a bit far from the truth, the things that happened back then is what happend back then. no need to bring up thousands of years ago, why care so much bout the past just live your lifes why do u lot care so much bout what other people do?

    "i dont love u but i got love for you" - saves me every time Wink
  • Re: Fiction or Truth?
     Reply #47 - November 19, 2008, 06:43 PM

    Let big sis reply aloofandbored0

    The reason we need to care about stuff from the past is because it still effects the present and the future, and not in any good way.  Wink

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Fiction or Truth?
     Reply #48 - November 19, 2008, 07:37 PM

    its not fiction its just a bit far from the truth, the things that happened back then is what happend back then. no need to bring up thousands of years ago, why care so much bout the past just live your lifes why do u lot care so much bout what other people do?

    We care about it because those who are responsible for these fictions, and their acolytes, set themselves up as the supreme arbiters of life and death over the rest of us, that's why.

    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Fiction or Truth?
     Reply #49 - November 19, 2008, 07:45 PM

    its not fiction its just a bit far from the truth, the things that happened back then is what happend back then. no need to bring up thousands of years ago, why care so much bout the past just live your lifes why do u lot care so much bout what other people do?

    We care about it because those who are responsible for these fictions, and their acolytes, set themselves up as the supreme arbiters of life and death over the rest of us, that's why.



     Afro




    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Fiction or Truth?
     Reply #50 - November 22, 2008, 05:56 PM


    The term 'pious fraud' has been used to excuse such fervent enthusiasm, Hassan. In my book, fraud is fraud whatever mitigating circumstance is offered in its defence. And there is no doubt that much of what has been handed down to us (by all scripture-based monotheisms) was written for nefarious reasons to manipulate the people and back up wobbly untruth.



    Not sure about 'pious fraud' - I think they genuinely believed God was talking to them.

    From my reading of the pre-Islamic period (and I suspect Biblical times were similar), it was not uncommon for people to come out with ecstatic sayings, dirge type utterances, poetry, or rhyming prose they thought were divinely inspired.

    It seems to have been an environment where it was easier to accept that God was talking to you.


    You might find this guy's theories interesting.
  • Re: Fiction or Truth?
     Reply #51 - November 22, 2008, 07:28 PM

    Let big sis reply aloofandbored0

    The reason we need to care about stuff from the past is because it still effects the present and the future, and not in any good way.  Wink


    Here is an article that makes a start at explaining why.  Very much on topic.
  • Re: Fiction or Truth?
     Reply #52 - November 23, 2008, 12:25 AM

    Quote from: SmartAssmodeus link=topic=3737.msg97894#msg97894
    [url=http://primal-page.com/godwin
    Here is an article that makes a start at explaining why.[/url]  Very much on topic.


    Load of hackneyed bollocks IMO. No real analysis, just orientalist-type cliche. All deconstructed rather easily. Especially the first presupposition about the 'decline of Islamic civilisation' [i.e that Islam caused economic stagnation. uhh no. it gave rise to a flourishing mercentile/capitalistic empire in the first place, after all]. It's quite well established (oh, try the past four decades) how that had to do with objective circumstances, and responsiveness by governance on the other hand. The rest isn't even worth reading. Psychologising, essentialist rotting bark.

    Sorry, won't do for serious analysis.

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Fiction or Truth?
     Reply #53 - November 23, 2008, 09:51 PM



    Thanks SA - that was very interesting  Afro

    "Julian Jaynes (February 27, 1920 – November 21, 1997) was an American psychologist, best known for his book The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind (1976), in which he argued that ancient peoples were not conscious (did not possess an introspective mind-space), but instead had their behavior directed by auditory hallucinations, which they interpreted as the voice of their chief, king, or the gods. Jaynes argued that the change from this mode of thinking (which he called the bicameral mind) to consciousness occurred over a period of centuries about three thousand years ago and was based on the development of metaphorical language and the emergence of writing."
  • Re: Fiction or Truth?
     Reply #54 - November 23, 2008, 10:42 PM

    I recall reading those descriptions about Jaynes and his work in a lot of writings by William Burroughs, but I’ve still not read Jaynes. Thanks for the reminder!

    "At 8:47 I do a grenade jump off a ladder."
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