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Theme Changer

 Topic: Honour killings shame us all

 (Read 5009 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Honour killings shame us all
     OP - November 13, 2008, 05:57 AM

    Honour killings shame us all

    There is evidence from the Crown Prosecution Service that honour killings among Muslims in Britain are being fuelled by Islamic extremists with links to terrorist groups.

    A recent BBC investigation into honour killings exposed how Muslim girls and women who are thought to have dishonoured their families or Islam are hunted down and murdered by contract killers. In the words of police officers, "it is organised crime".

    Twelve women are murdered in the UK every year as a result of honour killing. There are fears that the authorities - including the education service and the police - are failing to tackle the problem.

    The most common reasons for an honour killing are when a daughter refuses to enter into an arranged marriage or chooses a boyfriend or spouse outside the family's religious community.

    Other motives include a female family member being the victim of a sexual assault, seeking a divorce (even from an abusive husband) or allegations of adultery. Human Rights Watch makes the point that "the mere perception that a woman has behaved in a way that 'dishonours' her family is sufficient to trigger an attack on her life."

    As well as the known murders, there is now concern for the welfare of hundreds of Asian girls who disappear from British schools every year. In Bradford alone 250 did not return to school after the summer break in 2005 - a situation mirrored in other UK cities. Privately, police fear that some of these children have been taken abroad, been forced to marry or have become the victims of honour violence.

    Anne Cryer, MP for Keighley, believes education officials are reluctant to intervene for fear of upsetting community relations.

    "I think they're scared stiff of being called racist or Islamophobic. If a white girl were removed from school her parents would be before the courts for aiding and abetting her truancy. I think we should be taking the same line with Asian parents. We shouldn't be kow-towing to cultural differences."

    Cryer concludes: "We have to have some system of reporting by the schools to the police and to social services. And if they've been whisked away to Pakistan or wherever, I think they have to be brought back."

    Baroness Scotland - recently appointed as Attorney General - was the Home Office minister with overall responsibility for honour violence. She rejects criticism that the Government is failing to make sure children are safe.

    "We are looking at trying to find ways of making sure we know where children live. There can't be an assumption that all these children have been shipped out."

    The BBC was told that the police are at fault too. Insiders at the Metropolitan police said senior officers 'dropped the ball' and that 'political correctness' hampered the fight against honour crimes. The commander in charge of a raft of initiatives launched in 2002 was moved aside, and a training presentation on honour crime was suspended after accusations of Islamophobia and racism.

    Commander Steve Allen of the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) denies the allegations, saying that "90 per cent of frontline staff have been through mandatory training which involves discussions on honour based violence." But insiders say the issue of honour crime is not being treated as a top priority by the police.

    There is also criticism from former civil servants that Government guidance is simply gathering dust on policy makers' shelves.

    The Home Office has yet to announce who will take over responsibility for honour violence from Baroness Scotland. If those who have concerns about honour killings are to be believed, it is an appointment that needs to be made without delay.

    The Crown Prosecution Service is candid. It admits that it is playing catch-up and asserts that more women will die.

    Ok you UK'ites, what think ye of this? One woman a month gets subjected to honour killing, and that's only the confirmed cases. The total could be much higher. In fact given the number of young women and girls going missing every year it's probably bound to be higher. Do you think the authorities are striking a good balance between political correctness and their duty? 

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Honour killings shame us all
     Reply #1 - November 13, 2008, 06:02 AM

    They need to do more. They need to step in. Political correctness will not save lives, it's only destroying them.

    They need to get their priorities straight. What's more important? Not upsetting a community, or saving a human being's life?
  • Re: Honour killings shame us all
     Reply #2 - November 13, 2008, 08:03 AM

    Quote
    The Home Office has yet to announce who will take over responsibility for honour violence from Baroness Scotland.


    They should appoint Ann Cryer, she sounds like someone who would tackle the problem.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Honour killings shame us all
     Reply #3 - November 13, 2008, 08:13 AM

    Quote from: Wiki
    Cryer has attracted some media attention for speaking out against forced marriages, honour killings and calling on immigrants to learn to speak English before entering the country. She has a reputation for being somewhat insensitive to her constituents, which include a sizable immigrant population.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Cryer

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Honour killings shame us all
     Reply #4 - November 13, 2008, 09:10 AM

    Hi Osmanthus. Thanks for the post. I have a running discussion with an atheist pal over at another forum: my simple point is that political correctness (who the hell coined that ridiculous phrase?) often inhibits or even prohibits intervention in serious issues and crimes that are rooted in religion -- a whole host of religions, though Islam is, admitedly and for obvious reasons, bad-taste of the month, so criticism is also sometimes unfairly seen as a suggestion of racial bias, of course. He thinks this is not the case and that 'religiophobia' (especially current fears of Islam) is rampant and guilty of sensationalising and inflating isolated cases. So, would it be any trouble to post a link to the info above? I'd like to bring it up but want to be sure of my facts. Many thanks. Neil

    We are not here to fight religion. We are here to make religion irrelevant. NM
  • Re: Honour killings shame us all
     Reply #5 - November 13, 2008, 10:10 AM

    You can link to the original source. I always make the title link to where I got the material. Just click on the title at the start of the post and it'll take you straight there.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Honour killings shame us all
     Reply #6 - November 13, 2008, 10:29 AM

    Many thanks, Osmanthus. I didn't realise that; it's handy to know for the future. Very best. Neil

    We are not here to fight religion. We are here to make religion irrelevant. NM
  • Re: Honour killings shame us all
     Reply #7 - November 13, 2008, 10:39 AM

    The only way to sort out political correctness is to influence politicians. You may be aware that all the main political parties have associations that share the views of the CEMB...see quote below from the Humanist society.

    ' We are delighted that Conservative Central Office has recognised that many Conservatives - including several members of the shadow cabinet and many (if not the majority) of Conservative MPs - have no religious faith.

    The creation of the Conservative Humanist Association means that all three major UK political Parties now have associations aligned with the British Humanist Association. We hope that all UK political parties - including Parties active in the devolved regions - will also recognise that the majority of our people want a more secular political system.'

    I suggest that CEMB should have links with all of these.
  • Re: Honour killings shame us all
     Reply #8 - November 13, 2008, 10:48 AM

    Not a bad idea. We already have the NSS in our front page newsfeed but some extra links are always worthwile.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Honour killings shame us all
     Reply #9 - November 13, 2008, 12:42 PM

    It's a fucking sorry state of affairs when the police force neglect one of their main responsibilities of protecting life in favour of "cultural sensibilities."  There should be no compromise, murder is murder - the law is there to protect the rights of individuals not to pander to their feelings.

    Regards,
    Gonzo

    "The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum. Whenever evil wins, it is only by default: by the moral failure of those who evade the fact that there can be no compromise on basic principles" - Ayn Rand
  • Re: Honour killings shame us all
     Reply #10 - November 13, 2008, 09:14 PM

    Yes. Obviously the police and other authorities have a duty to respect the presumption of innocence and other standards but pandering to "cultural sensibilities" is not a relevant factor when lives are at stake. "Cultural sensibilities" are so nebulous and so easily extended at anyone's whim that they form no basis for policy in murder investigations.

    Obviously there are times when it can be handy to know what people's preconceptions are so you can deal with them more easily, but there's also an overriding need to call a spade a spade if you're going to get anything accomplished. Mind you education is important as well but it doesn't help deal with current cases.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Honour killings shame us all
     Reply #11 - November 13, 2008, 09:25 PM

    My dad said that when young girls get too smart, they think they can rebel against anything including religion and that was unacceptable. Then he said, "Never become a kafir, I don't want to kill you". It scared me but I'm pretty sure he was kidding.

    "Poor human nature, what horrible crimes have been committed in thy name!"
    - Emma Goldman
  • Re: Honour killings shame us all
     Reply #12 - November 13, 2008, 09:33 PM

    Fuck. He's Somalian, right? Serious stuff in Somalia, and how troppo are any of his relatives?

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Honour killings shame us all
     Reply #13 - November 13, 2008, 09:41 PM

    Fuck. He's Somalian, right? Serious stuff in Somalia, and how troppo are any of his relatives?

    Yup. Troppo?  Huh?
    My parents have never once mentioned arranged marriage. Somalians are crazy in many ways but they're not too big on those. And my dad barely has any relatives. He'd have to kill me himself. lol

    "Poor human nature, what horrible crimes have been committed in thy name!"
    - Emma Goldman
  • Re: Honour killings shame us all
     Reply #14 - November 13, 2008, 09:43 PM

    Troppo is Australian slang for crazy.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Honour killings shame us all
     Reply #15 - November 13, 2008, 09:49 PM

    My dad said that when young girls get too smart, they think they can rebel against anything including religion and that was unacceptable. Then he said, "Never become a kafir, I don't want to kill you". It scared me but I'm pretty sure he was kidding.


     mysmilie_977 WTF?

    If you ever get any feeling that he wasn't kidding, jump on a plane and come stay with me, I'll keep you safe  dance (at the gigs and festivals we would attend lol)

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Honour killings shame us all
     Reply #16 - November 13, 2008, 09:54 PM

    My dad said that when young girls get too smart, they think they can rebel against anything including religion and that was unacceptable. Then he said, "Never become a kafir, I don't want to kill you". It scared me but I'm pretty sure he was kidding.


     mysmilie_977 WTF?

    If you ever get any feeling that he wasn't kidding, jump on a plane and come stay with me, I'll keep you safe  dance (at the gigs and festivals we would attend lol)


    Wouldn't that be fun!  piggy

    "Poor human nature, what horrible crimes have been committed in thy name!"
    - Emma Goldman
  • Re: Honour killings shame us all
     Reply #17 - November 13, 2008, 10:02 PM

    Quote
    If you ever get any feeling that he wasn't kidding,


    That bit wouldn't be.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Honour killings shame us all
     Reply #18 - November 13, 2008, 10:07 PM

    Quote
    If you ever get any feeling that he wasn't kidding,


    That bit wouldn't be.


    You saying she should get on a plane and come over now?

     bunny PARTY

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Honour killings shame us all
     Reply #19 - November 13, 2008, 10:08 PM

    Quote
    If you ever get any feeling that he wasn't kidding,


    That bit wouldn't be.


    You saying she should get on a plane and come over now?

     bunny PARTY

    Flying isn't free, you know.

    "Poor human nature, what horrible crimes have been committed in thy name!"
    - Emma Goldman
  • Re: Honour killings shame us all
     Reply #20 - November 13, 2008, 10:10 PM

    Not according to some guy I used to know, it didn't cost him a penny when he flew off the roof of that building.  Tongue

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Honour killings shame us all
     Reply #21 - November 13, 2008, 10:21 PM

    Bad joke.


     piggy

    "Poor human nature, what horrible crimes have been committed in thy name!"
    - Emma Goldman
  • Re: Honour killings shame us all
     Reply #22 - November 14, 2008, 09:14 AM

    Bad joke.


     piggy


    Kind of fell flat on its face....so to speak

    "The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum. Whenever evil wins, it is only by default: by the moral failure of those who evade the fact that there can be no compromise on basic principles" - Ayn Rand
  • Re: Honour killings shame us all
     Reply #23 - November 14, 2008, 09:55 AM

    Bradford? lol the Paki population of bardford is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dardic_people you are talking about uneducated mountain tribes men.

    When it comes to us Punjabis, are women are more culturally "connected" and seldom "rebel", in Paki Punjabi culture we have a concept, "no matter how hard you try to hide a woman, if she wants to run she will run" its not a "Pakistani" problem its a "Kashmiri" problem the sooner the government realizes this the more effectively it will be able to deal with the problem.

    The reason these women rebel in some cases is due to the fact of them having limited freedom, they are not allowed to go out, not allowed to keep a phone, etc, eventually these women will just rebel.

    here is an intresting article:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Pakistanis#Integrating_in_British_society
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