Thank you for the kind words.
Right back at you.
Whether his convictions were right or wrong, or I agreed with them or not, I was always prepared to read them. His tone was often challenging, but I see no actual harm being done to anyone by his comments.
Specifically regarding the comments he made where he was being an apologist for lynchings and other atrocities (the bulk of his offenses here), I do think that he should be able to say these things without legal repercussions. But without social ones? That's not how freedom of speech works, and not how it should work. CEMB is a private forum. It has rules. He continued to post things in violation of those rules. His departure on that very basis alone should be justified.
But more importantly: this is a forum that serves, in my observations, a very unique and much-needed purpose, and, for many of the members, it is a safe space that they are starved for in real life. That doesn't mean that everyone is always going to agree with each other, or that no one will ever get their feelings hurt on here. That'll happen, but it happens within the confines of the forum rules. However, there are some users here that I know for a fact either have been or are in very real danger of becoming the victims of mubs' favorite crimes. While mubs sits in the safety of his suburban home, there's other users who are living in a place where they may be killed, or who ran or are on the run from people who would kill them. This is not the space where they should be reading precisely why their murder will be justified.
Also, I am a firm believer that those individuals who do not directly commit crimes, but who justify them and rationalize them, will embolden and empower those who do commit the crimes. They lend to the cultural perception that these crimes are acceptable, it lends to the dehumanization of the victims. Considering that I first found this site well before my apostasy, and that people from all over seem to find this site, it wouldn't be too far-fetched to imagine that someone who is actually living in an unstable country/area where these crimes are common would be reading these threads at some point. If there were even the slightest chance that playing host to apologists for these crimes would in any way reinforce or indirectly support the cultural acceptance of them, I believe it would be very irresponsible to do so.
Finally, I have a suspicion that if the mods/admins opened the floodgates and allowed every sort of bigot, racist, apologists of lynchings and slavery and proponents of patriarchy to come in and assert the merits of those positions, at a certain point this wouldn't exactly be an ex-Muslim forum anymore. It would be a forum of safe and privileged and, above all, cruel people discussing how to deprive people of basic rights without ever having to look at the consequences or even acknowledge them as real. I think the rest of us would all have fucked off after a while of hearing under which particular circumstances it would be justified to murder, rape or subjugate us or our loved ones. I, for one, would be long gone.
Anyway, regarding the rest of the subject, I do understand your position (you and my father would get along splendidly) , but that's not quite what I am wondering. I do agree that not everyone who is on welfare or using social services is giving it 110% of their effort. I do agree that some people are just downright exploiting it. We could have a long discussion on whether or not those individuals are representative of all or even most of those on welfare, but that's not really what I'm asking. I understand your sympathies do not lie with these people.
It's easy to say sure, let's scrap welfare, let's make it every man for himself, and if you get thrown out on the street, that's too bad. But it's naive to imagine that there won't be consequences for the rest of the population because of this. In many countries, this is no longer the age where you can easily start from a minimum-wage job and work your way up. The job climate has changed. Education is all but required to earn a living in America, and education is a small fortune to pay for. Jobs are sparse. The idea that this will force all those lazy jerks to be successful is unrealistic.
You're going to end up with increased poverty, increased homelessness, increased crime rates. What will you do when this starts affecting your towns and cities, or the health of your country? What about the children who get turned out on the street along with their lazy, lazy parents? Sure, it's possible for them to succeed, but is it likely? What of their education? I'm sure we can both agree that the health of any country is greatly dependent upon the stability of its citizens, and the education and prospects of the youth.
So what do you think you will do? Someone already thought of giving all the homeless a one-way bus ticket out of town. I don't think that worked.
Topic: Conservative or liberal