The literary perfection of the Qu'ran.

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- abdalwali
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Re: The literary perfection of the Qu'ran.
Reply #30 - January 02, 2009, 09:56 AM

Quote from: awais on January 02, 2009, 09:47 AM
Hasn't he been accused of being delirious before?

Yeah. Strange that saying "Audhu biLlahi min ash-Shaitan ir-rajim" didn't save him.

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- osmanthus
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Re: The literary perfection of the Qu'ran.
Reply #31 - January 02, 2009, 10:56 AM

Quote from: awais on January 02, 2009, 09:47 AM
I know, but still, that hadith is disturbing to sunni sensibilities.

1. Muhammad could write. This will be blow to many muslims Eemaan, destroying the miracle of the Qur'an coming from an illiterate.

2. Muhammad's companions disobeyed him, prevented him from writing his will. I've heard the excuse "because Muhammad was delirious". Hasn't he been accused of being delirious before?

Quote from: al-Qur'an, Surah an-Najm 53:3-4
He (Muhammad) does not speak from desire. It is only revelation revealed.

So how do they deal with that one? Would I be correct in assuming the standard defense is that he learned to write later in his life?

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- PeruvianSkies
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Re: The literary perfection of the Qu'ran.
Reply #32 - January 02, 2009, 12:21 PM

The Quran was sent down oraly, how could Mohammed being literate make any difference?

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- panoptic
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Re: The literary perfection of the Qu'ran.
Reply #33 - January 02, 2009, 12:25 PM

Quote from: PeruvianSkies on January 02, 2009, 12:21 PM
The Quran was sent down oraly, how could Mohammed being literate make any difference?

It was an oral rather than literary culture, after all. Mo', besides, is supposed to have travelled and been accustomed to different religious beliefs, spats etc..

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- Iris
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Re: The literary perfection of the Qu'ran.
Reply #34 - January 02, 2009, 04:22 PM

I never understood why being illiterate was considered such a strong argument for divine authorship of the Quran. As panoptic said it was an oral culture, and just because Mohammed couldnt write things down that doesnt mean he couldnt weigh up rhyme and rythm - after all he could understand and speak arabic. I imagine it was rather like playing piano by ear, or like one doesnt have to be able to read music in order to sing in tune.

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Re: The literary perfection of the Qu'ran.
Reply #35 - January 02, 2009, 07:15 PM

Quote from: awais on January 02, 2009, 09:47 AM
Quote from: Iris on January 02, 2009, 06:25 AM
Awais Shia muslims believe that hadith indicates that the prophet was going to write a will nominating Ali ibn abi Talib as his successor, and that Omar deliberately stopped him from doing so because he did not want him coming to power. In fact the hadith is pivotal to their claim.

I know, but still, that hadith is disturbing to sunni sensibilities.

1. Muhammad could write. This will be blow to many muslims Eemaan, destroying the miracle of the Qur'an coming from an illiterate.

2. Muhammad's companions disobeyed him, prevented him from writing his will. I've heard the excuse "because Muhammad was delirious". Hasn't he been accused of being delirious before?

Quote from: al-Qur'an, Surah an-Najm 53:3-4
He (Muhammad) does not speak from desire. It is only revelation revealed.

I've used those and other ahadith, as well as other sources, to show on another forum that Muhammad could read and write. In fact, I suspect it most likely that the later generations came up with the legend that he couldn't read and write. Notice that in ahadith where Muhammad reads or write, no-one objects: "But you can't do that!"

http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7227&highlight=#155434

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