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 Topic: As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?

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  • Re: As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #90 - November 30, 2008, 09:28 AM

    You could be right. On the other hand when it's been put in your head already that you're a prophet and already have a schizoid god talking to you 'he' might just serve your interests anyway. He does appear to express moral concern for conditions of the poor, although you may take this is some sort of political manipulation. After all, to create the state he wanted he had to dislodge some powerful tribes.

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #91 - November 30, 2008, 09:40 AM

    Also on seizures, there was the time Muhammad passed out as a kid, and he said Jibreel opened his chest to clean a blemish; the time he passed out at a party (saying it was Allah protecting him from wasting time sinfully, before Islam); and the time he passed out when repairing the Ka'bah (before Islam, said Allah protected him from uncovering his awrah).

    Can I have a reference?


    Here's the first. I'll post the others as I find them (Inshallah).

    Anas bin Malik reported that Jibreel came to Rasool Allaah (Muhammad) while he was playing with his playmates. He took hold of him and lay him prostrate on the ground and tore open his chest and took out the heart from it and then extracted a blood-clot out of it and said, "That was the part of Shaytaan in you." Then he washed it with the water of Zamzam in a golden basin and then it was joined together and restored to it place. The boys came running to his mother (his nurse) and said, "Verily Muhammad has been murdered!" They all rushed toward him. His color was changed. Anas said, "I myself saw the marks of needle on his breast."
    Saheeh Muslim, Kitab ul-Eemaan, No.311

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #92 - November 30, 2008, 10:06 AM

    Thanks.

    That adds up. I ask because there is 'biographical data' that parallels christian-type mythologising.

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #93 - March 11, 2013, 07:22 PM


    Having read Qur'an and biography of the Muhammas from various sources I came to conclussion that he suffered from a mentall illness(es). Now, you never know for sure what he had since I haven't even seen his picture. But by studying his personality through his words and actions I've come up with the following possibilities:

    . Shizotypal Disorder with dellusional, narcisisstic features and OCD
    . Narcisisstic Personality disorder combroid with other disorders including OCD
    . Bipolar Disorder with Antisocial features ( due to the hypersexuality, pedophilia, marriage to an older woman etc ). No offence to BDs, every BD is differenct.
    . Antisocial Personality disorder combroid with other disorders including OCD. ( manipulative tactics to the point that I consider him as an emotional vampire, mass killings, racissm, obsession with power and beauty, hypersexuality, being above the law just to name the few.
    . Severe anxiety to the point that he may have had problems with external stimuly. I've even heard one of his best friends (I think it was Abubakr, not sure) would close his ears to avoid sound when walking in the market. He may have had similar thing himself sicne he despised music etc.

    It seems to me that the guy had a constant battle with recharging himself. He may have been homosexual and was in denial too. But again, I can't say for sure since I haven't met him.


    "The future is bright; only we can get there faster"
  • As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #94 - March 14, 2013, 06:05 AM

    Who knows. It rubs me the wrong way that he studied Judaism and Christianity in his early years, then all of a sudden became some glorified prophet. Not to mention he didn't even adhere to the rules he set forth such as only marrying up to 4 women.

    Sex with children wasn't anything new though, even Jewish prophets married little girls. Only in the past two hundred years have the rights of women come about.

    The biggest thing that I do not understand about Christianity and Islam is that both religions take the traditions and stories of the Jewish people and use them as their own, then continue to wage war on the Jewish people. That makes no sense to me at all. If the Jewish God really came to Peter and Muhammad why would he keep switching loyalties among humans?

    "I am the almighty God! At first I am going to tell the people of ancient Mesopotamia that they are my favorite for all time! Then once their empire collapses, even though I promised it wouldn't, I am going to abandon them and promise the Romans that they are my favorites because they worship a demi-God named Jesus! Then once I get bored with that I am going to come to a perverted 40 year old Arab and promise him that his people will be my favorite and command them to kill my previous two favorites!"

    Yeah makes a lot of sense...not.
  • As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #95 - March 26, 2013, 05:04 AM

    In response to the original question, I still hold him in esteem, even highly so. 

    I believe Muhammad could have only been as influential as he was because he so sincerely believed in his vocation. Additionally, if you set yourself in his time and place: a 7th century dessert -- I can't help but be impressed. Even if Islam is not the true word of the Divine, Muhammad was still was an incredible political and social reformer for the time and place he lived in.

    At the end of the day he is still a human, he was bound to commit acts later peoples [who are shaped with completely different world views that took 1400 years to develop] wouldn't agree with, but to demonize him for not being a perfect human feels shallow. It completely trivializes the complexity of  him as an individual. Additionally, it destroys the need to critically analyze the Islamic narrative within its historical context. Which I found to be a much more compelling argument against Islam, and in religions in general, than condemning and reducing him as a pedophillic, slave-owning, sex-hungry asshole. It's cheap shot at creating and alienating the "other".

    Has anyone read Edward Said?

    "to characterize the Orient as alien and to incorporate it schematically on a theatrical stage whose audience, manager, and actors are ... only for Europe. Hence the vacillation between the familiar and the alien; Mohammed is always the imposter (familiar, because he pretends to be like the Jesus we know) and always the Oriental (alien, because although he is in some ways "like" Jesus, he is after all not like him)."

    ^From Orientalism. Discussing Dante's depiction of Muhammad in the Inferno.

    It's not hard to make decisions once you know what your values are.
  • As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #96 - March 28, 2013, 12:58 PM

    Quote
    It's cheap shot at creating and alienating the "other".


    No it, isn't. Its responding to the notion that Muhammad is the perfect man for all eternity, flawless, the ultimate human, insaan al-kamil, whose every word and action must be emulated, whose sunnah is the highpoint of humanity and ethics, all of which is propounded relentlessly by Islam upon pain of death of criticism.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #97 - March 28, 2013, 05:38 PM

    Quote
    but to demonize him for not being a perfect human feels shallow.


    That’s exactly the point! Muslims are the ones who claim the guy was more than just a superstitious desert warlord with delusional tendencies. They are the ones who claim that not only was he a perfect human being, but a perfect model for all times to come.

    Had Muhammad just been transmitted through history as a badass warlord who united the beduin tribes and founded the Arab empire in his epic quest for domination, I would be pretty impressed with the guy. From the most humble beginnings, he achieved a feat that has been unparalleled in global history. If he were viewed in the same vein as Ganges Khan, Attila the Hun, and Alexander the great, I would say that his biography was nothing short of incredible. I even might want to watch star studded 3D motion picture on his life, complete with graphics and special effects.

    But it is precisely because Muslims claim that he was a perfect human and an example to be followed that I think he deserves to be criticized.
  • As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #98 - July 24, 2013, 02:28 PM

    "George! Hello son, haven't seen you in a dog's age. How are you?"

    "Hey Quod, I'm fantastic. Have you heard the good news?"

    "Oh, your hamster finally gave birth? I know how much you love that thing."

    "Oh, no. I threw Whiskers out the window."

    "Pardon?"

    "I threw her out the window."

    "You live on the twelfth floor!"

    "I know."

    "Why, why, why would you do that?"

    "Hamsters are evil."

    "..."

    "It's okay. Fred told me,"

    "Who the fuck is Fred?"

    "Fred! You know Fred. Down the pub."

    "Fred from down the pub told you hamsters are evil so you threw Whiskers out the window?"

    "Exactly."

    "Why would you believe some random bloke down the pub that Whiskers is evil?"

    "Not just Whiskers. All hamsters."

    "..."

    "It actually comes direct from Dave. Fred introduced me."

    "Dave? There's a Dave now?"

    "Yep. He's a prophet of god. His words are god's words. We're writing everything down in the Book of Dave. You alright Quod? Just noticed you're turned a bit pale."

    "Jesus wept, you're in a cult! You're been brainwashed!"

    "Well that's offensive."

    "George, mate...are you on something? Are you having some sort of breakdown?"

    "Not at all."

    "Just, I know you've always been easily led, but...bloody hell."

    "I know how it sounds, but it really is true! There's a golden unicorn and everything! The unicorn farted a rainbow and Dave rode him up it to Heaven to talk to god! I was there! Lots of people were!"

    "So you all saw this happen?"

    "Yes. Well, kinda."

    "Kinda?"

    "Well, we all went to see Dave out in the woods and he said he needed some time to himself. He went deep in the woods where nobody could see him. After an hour or so he came back. He'd been with god for a thousand years!"

    "..."

    "Oh, I know that look. Yeah, we pointed out to Dave it was only an hour but he told us that a thousand years with god is only an hour on Earth. Why are you shaking your head slowly back and forth?"

    "I, I...I just...I don't know what to say."

    "I get that."

    "I don't think you do George."

    "It's true! Dave had proof and everything!"

    "Really? What proof?"

    "God told him how when I was little my mum took me to a doctor to see if I was born a bit slow, and I was. I never told him that! How else could he know except god told him?"

    "I can think of a few ways."

    "It's a miracle!"

    "George, mate, I have to be honest with you. You're scaring me. You've gotten yourself involved with crazy people! They aren't American are they? American republicans! They are, I knew it. It's always the bloody yanks doing this shit, now they're taking it international. I knew it wouldn't stop with the Mormons, then Scientology set up shop in London, now this Dave wanker is here...."

    "Actually, he's from Liverpool."

    "It's worse than I thought."

    "You know, you can't prove Dave is lying."

    "How do I explain this. Okay George, I know it's difficult for you, but try and stay with me here. See that person over there in the red top? Yes, that one. Don't stare George. Right. So say that person came up to me and told me they had a pet dog, I'd believe them. I know people have pet dogs, dogs were bred to be human companions, having them as pets is very common. I see it every day. Now, they might be lying. They might not have a pet dog. But it's so common, I would believe them. Now, imagine instead of a dog they tell me they have a pet dragon."

    "What's the dragon's name?"

    "Huh? I dunno. Smokey. Right, so that person over there in the red top tells me they have a pet dragon. Now that's a little different from saying they have a dog. I've never seen a dragon, I've never seen or heard anything to convince me dragons exist. So I'd need to see it for myself before I believe they have a mythological creature as a pet. Now this person could spin me a wild tale. Tell me that they can prove they have a dragon because of the ice caps. Thousands of years ago Smokey fought a race of ice giants and melted them with his fire breath, and that the ice caps are the frozen remains. But the ice caps are perfectly explained through nature. Now they could come up with even more stories trying to convince me. They could tell me a million stories about how Smokey did this and Smokey did that but if there's always another explanation that doesn't prove anything. And they still haven't shown me Smokey! I can believe they have a dog without proof because I see the evidence on a daily basis, but I can't do the same for a dragon. Understand?"

    "I understand."

    "So we can put this silliness behind us now then?"

    "What? No!"

    "Oh, George. Come on mate..."

    "How did Dave know my mum took me to the doctor, ay? Explain that it god didn't tell him!"

    "Well, some things aren't hard to figure out."

    "No, come on smart guy. How did Dave know my mum took me to get checked to see if I'm slow if I never told him unless god did?"

    "George, I'm trying not to be...I mean...look, it's obvious to most you're not the sharpest tool in the box."

    "I knew it! You're trying to trick and confuse me! God told Dave to tell us people would do that when the unicorn took him up the rainbow to heaven! Ha! More proof!"

    "Look, calm down, alright? Okay, did Dave actually bring anything back from heaven? Some real proof you can hold, see, smell, test?"

    "No, but he told us what it's like."

    "I'm probably going to regret this, but go on..."

    "You ever see those Japanese cartoons?"

    "Anime, yeah. So?"

    "The Japanese cartoon porn."

    "It's called Hentai."

    "How do you know what it's called?"

    "Not important. So come on, what was heaven like?"

    "Like nothing any human could come up with on his own. Real life anime girls with the big eyes and the huge tits and god gives you loads of them and you can have sex with forever and they'll do whatever you want! And you get a palace and servants and never ending wine and it's brilliant! Isn't it brilliant? We wrote it all down in the Book of Dave. But you can only go there if you believe Dave is a prophet of god. Dave said that only stupid people won't believe it and if we think it's bollocks that's the Devil trying to trick us and we should talk to Dave."

    "George, mate, you've lost the plot. Look, we can go find Whiskers, okay? Give her a proper burial. How long ago did you throw her out the window?"

    "About a month ago."

    "Yeah, you're not getting Whiskers back."

    "Why would I want to? I told you, hamsters are evil. God told Dave."

    "You have lost the fucking plot. Please, let me help you. You can come round to mine, spend the night. We can ring the doctor in the morning yeah? Get someone to come round and see you."

    "No! I want to go to heaven! God made you too stupid to ever see the truth! You need to seek forgiveness!"

    "No one except you could ever believe this. It's insane."

    "Fred believes it. He's even reading the Book of Dave to his kids every night so they won't go to hell."

    ".........................................."

    The Temple of Dave is coming soon to an area near you! If you would like to have your own copy of the Book of Dave and learn more about the true path to god, please feel free to stop by Smiley Remember that the Temple of Dave is protected by law under the Public Order Act 1986. Any communication which is threatening, abusive or insulting, and is intended to harass, alarm, or distress a follower of Dave constitutes as religious hatred and may result in a fine, a criminal conviction or both.

    R.I.P.
    Whiskers

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #99 - July 24, 2013, 02:49 PM

     clap clap clap
  • As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #100 - July 24, 2013, 04:53 PM

     Cheesy Quod, that is bloody awesome! Afro Thanks for the laffs!!!

    Quote
    "Actually, he's from Liverpool."

    "It's worse than I thought."

    Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #101 - July 24, 2013, 05:16 PM

    Liverpool is a great city.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #102 - July 24, 2013, 05:29 PM

    Cheesy  Class.  Love it.   Afro

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #103 - July 24, 2013, 08:48 PM

    Poor Whiskers  Cry
  • As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #104 - July 24, 2013, 08:55 PM

    Poor Whiskers  Cry

    +1

    Reminds me of that Al-Jazeera English Facebook post recently about someone who rode his suicide donkey into some (Afghan? US?) troops. And everyone - across creeds - were like "Poor donkey! Cry "

    Some Bangladeshian guy (whom I actually happen to like - he is knowledgeable and reasonable) were disturbed about the lack of sympathy for the deceased humans. And he definitely had a point. But still. The dead, innocent donkey got love from all over the world.

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #105 - July 25, 2013, 10:34 AM

    Glad everyone liked it. Decided to capitalise on this and try and keep a thread going called the Book of Dave. Some scholars, priests, whatever they call themselves are standing by ready for your questions. George may take a stab at it at some point in an effort to try and make himself look intelligent, and who knows? Maybe even the holiest of the holies, the one man of our time chosen by god himself to ride the golden unicorn, the Prophet of the 21st century, Dave! Obviously finding new followers for his cult *cough* perfectly valid religion is a time consuming process, as is setting up the first Temple of Dave outside of the regular meetings held in his garage or off out in the woods, but I'm sure he could make the time to answer some of your queries. I'm sure you will find all questions receive a valid answer you will automatically see the divinity of. After all, he is a prophet of god. Said so himself.

    Oh, and if it isn't obvious, the names Tom Dick and Harry are a deliberate reference to the old phrase., Larry, Curley and Moe is another deliberate thing. Who doesn't like the Three Stooges?

    Enjoy and don't be afraid to question. The Book of Dave holds the answer to all of life's struggles.

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=24596.msg698022#msg698022

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #106 - July 25, 2013, 10:37 AM

    And just so it's crystal clear, yes it's a sketch and not actually real people using my account. No CEMB rules were violated in the making of the Book of Dave  Smiley

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #107 - October 21, 2013, 08:40 PM

    I changed my mind. A roughly 1400 year old dick head somehow has managed to control my life.

    Fuck that guy.


    It's not hard to make decisions once you know what your values are.
  • As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #108 - October 22, 2013, 10:56 PM

    Glad I could help show how ludicrous it is. May the wisdom of Dave guide you.

    Side note, anyone notice how Mo was always around 1400 years ago? You'd think it'd be at least 1401 years by now.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #109 - October 22, 2013, 11:24 PM

    "I changed my mind. A roughly 1400 year old dick head somehow has managed to control my life.

    Fuck that guy."
  • As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #110 - October 22, 2013, 11:52 PM

    Meh, in general it's just "1400 years ago". I stand by my small attempt at humour.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #111 - October 27, 2013, 03:39 AM

    The wisdom of Dave though....Would love to see that on Broadway. :p

    It's not hard to make decisions once you know what your values are.
  • As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #112 - October 27, 2013, 11:28 PM

    There are two members who recently joined this forum, DaveMK and Ex Hijabi, if your reading my post, I'd like to ask your opinions on this topic if you don't mind. Why, because Dave as far as I remember you described Mo in one of your previous posts as evil, could you elaborate. Ex Hijabi you said you were initially put of this site by the language used to describe this influential figure, I'm curious to know if your view has since changed? I'll give you my views shortly but there wont be anything in them that hasn't already been said.
  • As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #113 - October 28, 2013, 12:17 AM

    Also, check the above link for the Book of Dave Smiley

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #114 - November 01, 2013, 11:16 PM

    There are two members who recently joined this forum, DaveMK and Ex Hijabi, if your reading my post, I'd like to ask your opinions on this topic if you don't mind. Why, because Dave as far as I remember you described Mo in one of your previous posts as evil, could you elaborate. Ex Hijabi you said you were initially put of this site by the language used to describe this influential figure, I'm curious to know if your view has since changed? I'll give you my views shortly but there wont be anything in them that hasn't already been said.


    Oh, sorry! I'm just seeing this now.

    Okay, my views on Muhammad. Well, they have definitely changed. Ironically enough, it was through my conversations with muslims that I started to lose respect for him. I'm still not at the point of feeling comfortable calling him a pedophile or whatever other names he gets called. And I agree with lerhodora that I don't think the criticism he gets is entirely fair, but I definitely see your (as in other posters who call him names) point in that you only call him names/make fun because Muslims hold him in such high esteem (greatest Muslim ever and such).

    I don't think I'll ever feel comfortable insulting him, but I definitely no longer hold the unreasonable respect I once had for him. Now he's just a guy who started a religion. I feel like I don't know him anymore. And I don't want to make a definite opinion on Muhammad until I learn more about him outside of the Islamic view.

    "so now, if you leave (Allahu A?lam is you already have) what will u do??? go out and show ur body to all the men??? sleep with countless men?? maashaAllah if you think think this is freedom or womens right then may Allah guide you to that which is correct."
  • As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #115 - November 01, 2013, 11:18 PM

    He was an ass hole.
  • As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #116 - November 01, 2013, 11:23 PM

    Oh, sorry! I'm just seeing this now.


    I don't think I've ever feel comfortable insulting him, but I definitely no longer hold the unreasonable respect I once had for him.


    You don't need to insult him. Just quote him verbatim from the ahadith and that should be enough to arouse an orgy of laughter from your vulnerable, consenting audience.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #117 - November 02, 2013, 11:33 PM

    @ Ex Hijabi thanks for your time in replying to my post. I did mention I'd give my own view as well so here goes. Let me be honest, I'm no learned scholar of Islam or it's origins so perhaps I have no place giving my views on such a revered character by so many but regardless I will.
    Of all the words used to describe him none more stand out to me than the word opportunist. From what little I've read it was common knowledge at the time that another prophet was expected to appear in that part of the world at any given time, in fact by some accounts would be prophets of this era were 2 a penny.
    Sorry battery running low and can't find the charger, gotta go before this thing shuts down on me, back soon with  more.
  • As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #118 - November 03, 2013, 12:17 AM

    Aside from being an opportunist, another word I hear commonly used to describe him was disillusion, and also that he suffered from epilepsy. In addition to this it's also hard to argue from a non muslim p.o.v that he wasn't ruthless(unless your Karen Armstrong or some clueless leftest) considering the extreme acts of violence that were carried out at his command against preceived threats to him or the ideology.
    Being delusional and ruthless is almost forgivable but if this isn't the case then his behavior is far more sinister. The fact that from time to time his revelations were revised (i.e Satanic versus) to keep his followers happy or to suit himself suggests to me that he may well have known what he was doing all along? Thinking hard
  • As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #119 - November 03, 2013, 01:54 AM

    You're not the first to think that.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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