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 Topic: France Muslims were in danger of forming separate "counter-society

 (Read 544 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • France Muslims were in danger of forming separate "counter-society
     OP - October 02, 2020, 04:45 PM
    France  Muslims were in danger of forming separate "counter-society _ France President  says BBC news  with this picture



    Quote
    French President Emmanuel Macron has announced plans for tougher laws to tackle what he called "Islamist separatism" and defend secular values. In a keenly awaited speech, Mr Macron said a minority of France's estimated six million Muslims were in danger of forming a "counter-society".

    His proposals include stricter oversight of schooling and control over foreign funding of mosques. He had been under pressure to address radical Islam amid security fears.

    But his comments were condemned by some Muslim activists who accused him of trying to repress Islam in the country.....


    well that is the news today..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • France Muslims were in danger of forming separate "counter-society
     Reply #1 - October 03, 2020, 01:59 AM
    Can't say I'm a fan of the French burka ban to be honest, though maybe we should look at banning grotty maulvi types who seem to be here for no reason other than to beat the Quran into kids.

    But this isn't really news, this is a challenge of the times when it comes to Islamic radicalisation, wider Islamic conservatism and how the rest of society is having to react.
  • France Muslims were in danger of forming separate "counter-society
     Reply #2 - October 05, 2020, 01:12 PM
    Quote from: Ward_End on October 03, 2020, 01:59 AM
    Can't say I'm a fan of the French burka ban to be honest,


    Why not? Close religious schools, stop foreign funding, ban face coverings and leave no doubt that a state within a state will be tolerated.
  • France Muslims were in danger of forming separate "counter-society
     Reply #3 - October 05, 2020, 01:16 PM
    Quote from: crumble on October 05, 2020, 01:12 PM
    Why not? Close religious schools, stop foreign funding, ban face coverings and leave no doubt that a state within a state will be (NOT) tolerated.

     Cheesy my goodness gracious .. what happened TODAY dear crumble?

    and did you miss that word "NOT" there??

    well Yesss.. 

    Dammit ....make France like Saudi Arabia Sand Land.. Make France like Land of Pure follow the rules of Iranian Mullah regime ... finmad finmad
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • France Muslims were in danger of forming separate "counter-society
     Reply #4 - October 05, 2020, 01:24 PM
    leave no doubt followed by not  results in double negative.

    I think they call it muscular secularism - it will clear up confusion in some muslim minds at least, ie no room for mini medinas in france.
  • France Muslims were in danger of forming separate "counter-society
     Reply #5 - October 05, 2020, 01:37 PM
    Quote from: crumble on October 05, 2020, 01:24 PM
    leave no doubt followed by not  results in double negative.


    Oh.. Oops., well I am in fighting mood today  finmad     

    So what there is double negative in a sentence?  why do you multiply them??  ADD THEM

    Quote
    I think they call it muscular secularism - it will clear up confusion in some muslim minds at least, ie no room for mini medinas in france.

    well I am not certain that is right way to eliminate mini medinas in France.  In fact indirectly you are saying France should act like Medina Story of 6th century to eliminate mini medinas in France

    but give me your opinion on another folder .. Because  I read your posts   and that folder is right above this   https://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=29109.0
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • France Muslims were in danger of forming separate "counter-society
     Reply #6 - October 05, 2020, 01:55 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on October 05, 2020, 01:37 PM
    In fact indirectly you are saying France should act like Medina Story of 6th century to eliminate mini medinas in France


    You compare the removal of a few abused liberties to religious totalitarianism? The all-or-nothing view of rights/freedoms is pretty crazy.

    I'll look at the other thread later on.
  • France Muslims were in danger of forming separate "counter-society
     Reply #7 - October 05, 2020, 03:03 PM
    Quote from: crumble on October 05, 2020, 01:55 PM
    You compare the removal of a few abused liberties to religious totalitarianism? The all-or-nothing view of rights/freedoms is pretty crazy...............


    well..  I am looking for permanent solution without  impinging on liberties.. ." that removal of a few abused liberties"  .,


    .......Often that word  "FEW"   or...  "removal of a few abused liberties"  leads to abusing liberty itself.. So we don't to go to a slippery slope on Liberty ..

    Off course "LIBERTY COMES WITH A SIMPLE RESTRICTION ".. That is golden rule...
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • France Muslims were in danger of forming separate "counter-society
     Reply #8 - October 05, 2020, 05:27 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on October 05, 2020, 03:03 PM
    ..  "removal of a few abused liberties"  leads to abusing liberty itself.. So we don't to go to a slippery slope on Liberty ..


    And rights have to be expanded continuously to prevent the slippery slope? If a single person feels disenfranchised then the whole edifice slips down to tyranny? Of course, that is absurd.
  • France Muslims were in danger of forming separate "counter-society
     Reply #9 - October 06, 2020, 06:56 AM
    Quote from: crumble on October 05, 2020, 01:12 PM
    Why not? Close religious schools, stop foreign funding, ban face coverings and leave no doubt that a state within a state will be tolerated.


    There are a number of things I would put above the face veil that are a threat to the secular state. Like you, I'm in favour of secularism. But I don't want to be authoritarian in the name of maintaing a secular society. The French have their muscular secularism but I prefer what ten years ago David Cameron described as muscular liberalism, if the choice comes between those two.

    Which isn't to say that the burka or face veil shouldn't be challenged, I'm no relativist. But I prefer it being challenged in civil society rather than the state infringing the liberty of the individual to wear what they want, however distasteful.
  • France Muslims were in danger of forming separate "counter-society
     Reply #10 - October 06, 2020, 08:06 AM
    Quote from: crumble on October 05, 2020, 05:27 PM
    And rights have to be expanded continuously to prevent the slippery slope?

    No...
    Quote
    If a single person feels disenfranchised then the whole edifice slips down to tyranny? Of course, that is absurd.

      No... 

    but we have problem about the word "rights" itself .,  what rights are we talking about?  let us take examples from your own statement

    Quote
    1). Close religious schools,
    2_. stop foreign funding,
    3).  ban face coverings
    4). and leave no doubt that a state within a state will be (NOT) tolerated.


    those are the points that are from your post that you think  a government of a democratic state  should  control   with force ,..  now compare  the  rights  in those 4 points  with  universally recognized Human Rights,  such as

    Quote
    Right to self-determination
    Right to liberty
    Right to due process of law
    Right to freedom of movement
    Right to privacy
    Right to freedom of thought
    Right to freedom of religion
    Right to freedom of expression
    Right to peaceful assembly
    Right to freedom of association


    and figure out those four points whether they are trespassing  the above fundamental rights .. along with golden rule ..debate .. discuss  with those who  are opposing your views  and convince them that you are right  ..

    that is all what you need to do  Cheesy    I agree it is a tough problem but I think Human beings are intelligent enough to participate in such open discussion in this 21st century
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • France Muslims were in danger of forming separate "counter-society
     Reply #11 - October 06, 2020, 08:25 AM
    human rights are arbitrary not fundamental. democracy is the force of the many over the fewer. administrative secularism should prioritise the latter over the former.
  • France Muslims were in danger of forming separate "counter-society
     Reply #12 - October 06, 2020, 08:26 AM
    ie, democratic will over ideological rights gumf.
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