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 Topic: Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation?

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  • Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation?
     Reply #90 - April 29, 2022, 03:21 AM

    Dear yeezevee, greetings. Thank you for your good wishes. Hopefully you too are fine.

    Hello Mughal., I have time and intend to reply in detail to your wonderful greetings ..

    Well month is ending
    we need not fast anymore
    we can go back to the way
    we used to live
    Ramadhan   Mubarako
    I am fine
    I was fine
    I will be fine
    I came with nothing
    and I go with nothing


    Every one is listening sermons

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4KsR-3QtvE

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1505500620551516164

    and after this the war will start ., more important is your response on Quran and tafseer .. let me make zest your post as pointers

    Quote
    1_ I do intend to write my own tafseer of the quran but before I do that I wanted to have the clear basis upon which to base my tafseer of the quran.

    2_ I managed to discover the proper way to understand the quranic text. However I need to do two things

    one to write a dictionary of the words used in the quran.

    other thing ie decoding the message in the quran.

    This is the most time consuming project. I am too old to complete this project. However I am going to do this only for one part of the quran so that if I go away then someone after me could complete this project.

    well simple START WRITING .. START WORKING ,,,

    Quran has 6,236 verses  excluding Bismillah and  if you include Bismillah as  a verse,  the book  has  6349 verses and  uses  some 77,430 words ,  there are 113  ]Bismillahs ,, So,  Quran is full of repeated words and repeated stories .. your work is easy .. start working ..
    .
    Quote
    After that I hope to start the other thing ie decoding the message in the quran. Again I do not know if I will be able to complete this project. As it is clearly obvious from my writings that my understanding of the quran is completely different from all the rest. It is because I take rationality and logical consistency very seriously. It is because I try to prove things on basis of defining proof.

    well good luck...  BUT   WHICH QURAN ARE YOU INTEND TO USE FOR YOUR WORK??

    The present GOOFY BOOK  with some 114 chapters with funny names  that was first put together in 1924 in that Egypt  Al-Azhar University??

    Let me paste something for you here

    Quote
    1924 Cairo edition
    The influential standard Quran of Cairo ("1342 Cairo text" using the Islamic calendar) is the Quran that was used throughout almost all the Muslim world until the Saudi Quran of 1985. The Egyptian edition is based on the "Ḥafṣ" version ("qira'at") based on ʻAsim's recitation, the 8th-century recitation of Kufa.  It uses a set of additional symbols and an elaborate system of modified vowel-signs and for minute details, not identical to any older system.
    Quote
    The Cairo edition has become the standard for modern printings of the Quran  with the exception of those used in all North Africa (excluding Egypt) where the Warsh version is used.[

    A committee of leading professors from Al-Azhar University[89] had started work on the project in 1907 but it was not until 10 July 1924 that the "Cairo Qur’an" was first published by Amiri Press under the patronage of Fuad I of Egypt,  as such, it is sometimes known as the "royal (amīriyya) edition."

    The goal of the government of the newly formed Kingdom of Egypt was not to delegitimize the other qir’at, but to eliminate that, which the colophon labels as errors, found in Qur’anic texts used in state schools. To do this they chose to preserve one of the fourteen Qira'at “readings”, namely that of Hafs  , student of ‘Asim. Its publication has been called a "terrific success", and the edition has been described as one "now widely seen as the official text of the Qur’an",

     so popular among both Sunni and Shi'a that the common belief among less well-informed Muslims is "that the Qur’an has a single, unambiguous reading", i.e. that of the 1924 Cairo version. Minor amendments were made later in 1924 and in 1936 - the "Faruq edition" in honour of then ruler, King Faruq.


    And that is one Quran .. and the other one is GO STRAIGHT TO  "SANAA MANUSCRIPTS" and work with them ..  here are  some links
    Quote

    good luck on your work with Quran.. and creating Quran word dictionary

    Quote
    If I ask people what is the ultimate purpose of life in their understanding, they fail to answer this question purposefully or objectively. Likewise if I ask people what is proof and how to prove things again they fail to answer this question. All because most of them have never thought about it in a serious way.. They live in an imaginary world of their own ie cut off from ultimate reality. They fail badly to contextualise things.

    Purpose of Life??.. Oh my goodness
    well I failed miserably answering that Q, and I am still  looking for it where as you....... YOU ALREADY FOUND YOUR LIFE PURPOSE

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jac1C8Ni11U

    Quote
    As for your videos, you already know I am anti religion and anti secularism. This is very much obvious from my writings. I do not accept the idea of personal God. If there is a God then that God is God of everyone not just mine or yours. So if anyone bashes mullaans or philosophers or scientists for the right reasons then I am all for that.

     don't worry about those videos and my responses.. and I bash my head all the time..... 

    Quote
    In my view humanity can never find actual purpose of life without the proper study of the quranic text and likewise it cannot fulfil that purpose without the proper study of the quran.. I have this opinion due to my understanding of things.

     well good..... Glad to note that

    Quote
    Of course people have right to disagree with me but they will never have the valid reasons to do so. Disagreements between people without any real basis only ruin humanity.

    Noooooooooooo

    .. Me Disagreeing with you IS NOT GOING TO RUIN HUMANITY.....

      Cheesy

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation?
     Reply #91 - May 04, 2022, 10:28 AM

    Hello Mughal., I have time and intend to reply in detail to your wonderful greetings ..


    Dear yeezevee, thanks for your detailed reply but I will simply add my comments with your reply in brackets.

    Well month is ending (well months come and go and time never stops for anyone)

    we need not fast anymore (No one needs to fast unless one has some health problems which need to be sorted out through less food intake at times.)

    we can go back to the way

    we used to live (we have been living the way we have been always except when God decided to send his guidance for mankind and people decided to follow that guidance)

    Ramadhan   Mubarako (no there is no goodness in ramadhan because it is a period of strife and hardship and that is why the quran was revealed so that people unite and become peaceful and make progress and prosper as a proper human community.)
     
    I am fine
    I was fine
    I will be fine

    (May God make you fine and keep you fine)

    I came with nothing ( we humans were sent in this world by God with everything we will ever need to carry out his mission)

    and I go with nothing
    (Hope you do not go empty handed but play your part in grand scheme of things as God has asked us to do to make his world a paradise for all of us to show greatness of God through our own efforts and hard works)

    Every one is listening sermons (mullaan sermons are misleading, they just make up stories as they go which make no sense)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4KsR-3QtvE

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1505500620551516164

    and after this the war will start ., more important is your response on Quran and tafseer .. let me make zest your post as pointers
    well simple START WRITING .. START WORKING , (yes I will as soon as I can.)

    Quran has 6,236 verses  excluding Bismillah and  if you include Bismillah as  a verse,  the book  has  6349 verses and  uses  some 77,430 words ,  there are 113  ]Bismillahs ,, So,  Quran is full of repeated words and repeated stories .. your work is easy .. start working ..
    .well good luck...  BUT   WHICH QURAN ARE YOU INTEND TO USE FOR YOUR WORK??

    The present GOOFY BOOK  with some 114 chapters with funny names  that was first put together in 1924 in that Egypt  Al-Azhar University??

    Let me paste something for you here
    A committee of leading professors from Al-Azhar University[89] had started work on the project in 1907 but it was not until 10 July 1924 that the "Cairo Qur’an" was first published by Amiri Press under the patronage of Fuad I of Egypt,  as such, it is sometimes known as the "royal (amīriyya) edition."

    The goal of the government of the newly formed Kingdom of Egypt was not to delegitimize the other qir’at, but to eliminate that, which the colophon labels as errors, found in Qur’anic texts used in state schools. To do this they chose to preserve one of the fourteen Qira'at “readings”, namely that of Hafs  , student of ‘Asim. Its publication has been called a "terrific success", and the edition has been described as one "now widely seen as the official text of the Qur’an",

     so popular among both Sunni and Shi'a that the common belief among less well-informed Muslims is "that the Qur’an has a single, unambiguous reading", i.e. that of the 1924 Cairo version. Minor amendments were made later in 1924 and in 1936 - the "Faruq edition" in honour of then ruler, King Faruq.

    And that is one Quran .. and the other one is GO STRAIGHT TO  "SANAA MANUSCRIPTS" and work with them ..  here are  some links good luck on your work with Quran.. and creating Quran word dictionary
    Purpose of Life??.. Oh my goodness
    well I failed miserably answering that Q, and I am still  looking for it where as you....... YOU ALREADY FOUND YOUR LIFE PURPOSE

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jac1C8Ni11U
     don't worry about those videos and my responses.. and I bash my head all the time..... 
     well good..... Glad to note that
    Noooooooooooo

    (if you will read through my walls of text you will see that I have explained away all these points people raise against the authenticity of the quranic text so no point in repeating what I have said already)

    .. Me Disagreeing with you IS NOT GOING TO RUIN HUMANITY.....  (Yes, it will if you have no solid basis to disagree. If you have then you will be able to convince me to your side. It is simple as that)

      Cheesy

    with best wishes (My regards and best wishes for you and all the others on this forum who have managed to read what I have written. Blessings of God be upon all.of us)

    I am a student of quran and islam and not an exmuslim.
  • Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation?
     Reply #92 - May 04, 2022, 10:50 AM

    If we look into surah annaas ie 114 chapter of the quran. What message it contains for mankind?

    In it God tells us he is God of whole of mankind. He asks his messenger or missionary to tell rest of people what God wants them to do ie seek refuge in God ie in guidance of God. How can people seek refuge in God? Simply by living the way God tells people to live so that they stop hurting each other for their petty personal gains and start complementing and supporting each other to establish way of life told by God ie deen of islam.

    This surah also tells us to be careful about people with bad intentions because they will do all they can to cause troubles between people with their wrong ideologies.

    What mullaan made up stories tell us about this surah? They tell us people done some magic on messenger of God and God sent him these couple of surahs to tell him to read and blow them upon himself to save himself from their magic etc. So one can see why people must not follow mullaans and instead learn themselves how to make proper sense of quranic message.

    Idea is very simple to understand ie to do all that is good for one another and never do bad to each other. If we all did this imagine what kind of human world will come about? This is how one can clearly see what actual message of the quran is for mankind. 

    I am a student of quran and islam and not an exmuslim.
  • Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation?
     Reply #93 - May 04, 2022, 11:24 AM

    well hard to read .. so let me make Mughal's post readable so the reader will know who is saying what

    Mughal: Dear yeezevee, thanks for your detailed reply but I will simply add my comments with your reply in brackets.

    Quote
    yeezevee :  Well month is ending we need not fast anymore
    Mughal: well months come and go and time never stops for anyone  No one needs to fast unless one has some health problems which need to be sorted out through less food intake at times.


    Quote
    yeezevee :  we can go back to the way we used to live
    Mughal: we have been living the way we have been always except when God decided to send his guidance for mankind and people decided to follow that guidance


    Quote
    yeezevee :  Ramadhan   Mubarako
    Mughal: no there is no goodness in ramadhan because it is a period of strife and hardship and that is why the quran was revealed so that people unite and become peaceful and make progress and prosper as a proper human community.

     
    Quote
    yeezevee : 
    I am fine
    I was fine
    I will be fine
    Mughal: May God make you fine and keep you fine


    Quote
    yeezevee :  I came with nothing and I go with nothing
    Mughal: we humans were sent in this world by God with everything we will ever need to carry out his mission Hope you do not go empty handed but play your part in grand scheme of things as God has asked us to do to make his world a paradise for all of us to show greatness of God through our own efforts and hard works


    Quote
    yeezevee :  Every one is listening sermons
    Mughal: mullaan sermons are misleading, they just make up stories as they go which make no sense


    Quote
    yeezevee :  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4KsR-3QtvE

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1505500620551516164

    and after this the war will start ., more important is your response on Quran and tafseer .. let me make zest your post as pointers
    well simple START WRITING .. START WORKING ,
    Mughal: yes I will as soon as I can.


    Quote
    Quote
    yeezevee :  Quran has 6,236 verses  excluding Bismillah and  if you include Bismillah as  a verse,  the book  has  6349 verses and  uses  some 77,430 words ,  there are 113  ]Bismillahs ,, So,  Quran is full of repeated words and repeated stories .. your work is easy .. start working ..
    .well good luck...  BUT   WHICH QURAN ARE YOU INTEND TO USE FOR YOUR WORK??

    The present GOOFY BOOK  with some 114 chapters with funny names  that was first put together in 1924 in that Egypt  Al-Azhar University??

    Let me paste something for you here
    A committee of leading professors from Al-Azhar University[89] had started work on the project in 1907 but it was not until 10 July 1924 that the "Cairo Qur’an" was first published by Amiri Press under the patronage of Fuad I of Egypt,  as such, it is sometimes known as the "royal (amīriyya) edition."

    The goal of the government of the newly formed Kingdom of Egypt was not to delegitimize the other qir’at, but to eliminate that, which the colophon labels as errors, found in Qur’anic texts used in state schools. To do this they chose to preserve one of the fourteen Qira'at “readings”, namely that of Hafs  , student of ‘Asim. Its publication has been called a "terrific success", and the edition has been described as one "now widely seen as the official text of the Qur’an",

     so popular among both Sunni and Shi'a that the common belief among less well-informed Muslims is "that the Qur’an has a single, unambiguous reading", i.e. that of the 1924 Cairo version. Minor amendments were made later in 1924 and in 1936 - the "Faruq edition" in honour of then ruler, King Faruq.

    And that is one Quran .. and the other one is GO STRAIGHT TO  "SANAA MANUSCRIPTS" and work with them ..  here are  some links good luck on your work with Quran.. and creating Quran word dictionary
    Purpose of Life??.. Oh my goodness
    well I failed miserably answering that Q, and I am still  looking for it where as you....... YOU ALREADY FOUND YOUR LIFE PURPOSE

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jac1C8Ni11U
     don't worry about those videos and my responses.. and I bash my head all the time..... 
     well good..... Glad to note that

     
    Mughal: if you will read through my walls of text you will see that I have explained away all these points people raise against the authenticity of the quranic text so no point in repeating what I have said already

    Quote
    yeezevee :  Me Disagreeing with you IS NOT GOING TO RUIN HUMANITY.....  (Yes, it will if you have no solid basis to disagree. If you have then you will be able to convince me to your side. It is simple as that)   Cheesy

    with best wishes
     Mughal: My regards and best wishes for you and all the others on this forum who have managed to read what I have written. Blessings of God be upon all.of us


    well that I can read ... anyways thank you for the response and let me watch the moon




    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation?
     Reply #94 - May 05, 2022, 12:51 PM

    well hard to read .. so let me make Mughal's post readable so the reader will know who is saying what

    As I often say .. It is difficult to read Quran and I can say now it is also becoming difficult to read Mughal's  wall of text posts as well as the above post ...lol..  In such narrations it is often taxing to figure out .. ....WHO IS SAYING WHAT & WHY....  So I have to redo that Mughal's post., EVERYTHING IS GOOD except these two responses
     
    Quote
    VERSE 1). 
    Quote
    yeezevee :  I came with nothing and I go with nothing
    Mughal: we humans were sent in this world by God with everything we will ever need to carry out his mission Hope you do not go empty handed but play your part in grand scheme of things as God has asked us to do to make his world a paradise for all of us to show greatness of God through our own efforts and hard works


    VERSE 2. 
    Quote
    Quote
    yeezevee :  Quran has 6,236 verses  excluding Bismillah and  if you include Bismillah as  a verse,  the book  has  6349 verses and  uses  some 77,430 words ,  there are 113  ]Bismillahs ,, So,  Quran is full of repeated words and repeated stories .. your work is easy .. start working ..
    .well good luck...  BUT   WHICH QURAN ARE YOU INTEND TO USE FOR YOUR WORK??

    The present GOOFY BOOK  with some 114 chapters with funny names  that was first put together in 1924 in that Egypt  Al-Azhar University??

    Let me paste something for you here
    A committee of leading professors from Al-Azhar University[89] had started work on the project in 1907 but it was not until 10 July 1924 that the "Cairo Qur’an" was first published by Amiri Press under the patronage of Fuad I of Egypt,  as such, it is sometimes known as the "royal (amīriyya) edition."

    The goal of the government of the newly formed Kingdom of Egypt was not to delegitimize the other qir’at, but to eliminate that, which the colophon labels as errors, found in Qur’anic texts used in state schools. To do this they chose to preserve one of the fourteen Qira'at “readings”, namely that of Hafs  , student of ‘Asim. Its publication has been called a "terrific success", and the edition has been [font=Verdana][u][b]described as one "now widely seen as the official text of the Qur’an",[/b][/u][/font]

     so popular among both Sunni and Shi'a that the common belief among less well-informed Muslims is "that the Qur’an has a single, unambiguous reading", i.e. that of the 1924 Cairo version. Minor amendments were made later in 1924 and in 1936 - the "Faruq edition" in honour of then ruler, King Faruq.

    And that is one Quran .. and the other one is GO STRAIGHT TO  [font=Verdana][u][b]"SANAA MANUSCRIPTS" [/b][/u][/font]and work with them ..  here are  some links good luck on your work with Quran.. and creating Quran word dictionary
    Purpose of Life??.. Oh my goodness
    well I failed miserably answering that Q, and I am still  looking for it where as you....... YOU ALREADY FOUND YOUR LIFE PURPOSE

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jac1C8Ni11U
     don't worry about those videos and my responses.. and I bash my head all the time..... 
     well good..... Glad to note that

     
    Mughal: if you will read through my walls of text you will see that I have explained away all these points people raise against the authenticity of the quranic text so no point in repeating what I have said already


    Well I must say in that Mughal/yeezevee  Quran verses_discourses .. THOSE TWO VERSES I WOULD AGREE TO DISAGREE ., but there is no point of going further on that disagreement ., So move on to Mughal's post on that last chapter...chapter 114 of Quran .. this is what Mughal says

    If we look into surah annaas ie 114 chapter of the quran. What message it contains for mankind?

    In it God tells us he is God of whole of mankind. He asks his messenger or missionary to tell rest of people what God wants them to do ie seek refuge in God ie in guidance of God. How can people seek refuge in God? Simply by living the way God tells people to live so that they stop hurting each other for their petty personal gains and start complementing and supporting each other to establish way of life told by God ie deen of islam.

    This surah also tells us to be careful about people with bad intentions because they will do all they can to cause troubles between people with their wrong ideologies.

    What mullaan made up stories tell us about this surah? They tell us people done some magic on messenger of God and God sent him these couple of surahs to tell him to read and blow them upon himself to save himself from their magic etc. So one can see why people must not follow mullaans and instead learn themselves how to make proper sense of quranic message.

    Idea is very simple to understand ie to do all that is good for one another and never do bad to each other. If we all did this imagine what kind of human world will come about? This is how one can clearly see what actual message of the quran is for mankind. 

    Well I read that last chapter Surah  AnNas ( The Man Kind)  innumerable times.,  but dear Mughal did you know that LAST CHAPTER PF THE BOOK actually a 21st surah in the revelation order., I am sure you know compilation order of the book is different from revelation order., Long time ago .. some 9 year ago  December 31, 2013, 06:03 PM I wrote something on that surah  at https://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=16106.msg726977#msg726977   
     
    It is after all 6 verses surah.. let me put it to re-read those verses

    Quote
    Surah 114

    Say: I seek refuge in the Lord of men,
    The King of men,
    The god of men,
    From the evil of the whisperings of the slinking ,
    Who whispers into the hearts of men,
    From among the jinn and the men.

    yes.. yes.. slinking   ... AND JINNS...

    its implications are not just these first three verses

    I seek refuge in the Lord of men,
    The King of men,
    The god of men
    ,

    that is wonderful.. but you know what MULLAHS &THEIR FOLLOWERS DID WITH THE HELP OF EDUCATED FOLKS  LIKE YOU(& some time ago me))  THEY  DID  THIS   with those two words   ....slinking   ... AND JINNS...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XogKU-4TJ5M

    and they  did such things ((in the name of understanding Allah words from Quran)) before that brutal event  .....before our birth..... and after that event.... and even after our demise....

    So My dear friend you are Ooold .. I am getting old.,  but you understand very little of what .....ORIGINAL QURAN SAID..... and how it is transformed in to a POLITICAL LYNCHING FORCE IN THE NAME OF ALLAH...GOD...

    oh well ... Allah bless you.. but for me I will listen to Ramadan Sermons 

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7i11LU0DSXk

    and watch young  ladies speak out

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-oLSIGXvF4

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFG2k5g5tH8

    I know you are old and I am also walking  right behind you ., but those young ladies .....  my hats of to them..    WHERE WE FAILED THEY WILL CHANGE ISLAM   my friend

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation?
     Reply #95 - May 22, 2022, 10:16 AM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI6W1bcMfA0
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ_7ZxFgdqs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIdCX4Eo7DQ


    I am a student of quran and islam and not an exmuslim.
  • Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation?
     Reply #96 - May 22, 2022, 01:42 PM



    what is the point of those videos  of that young fellow  Hafiz Atif Khan dear Mughal?  well if you like that then watch all of  Hafiz Atif tubes

    https://www.youtube.com/c/HafizAtifKhan

    But you are supposed to work with Quran.,

    Quote
    .....I do intend to write my own tafseer of the quran but before I do that I wanted to have the clear basis upon which to base my tafseer of the quran.....


    I managed to discover the proper way to understand the quranic text. However I need to do two things one to write a dictionary of the words used in the quran. This is the most time consuming project.

    I am too old to complete this project. However I am going to do this only for one part of the quran so that if I go away then someone after me could complete this project.

    After that I hope to start the other thing ie decoding the message in the quran. Again I do not know if I will be able to complete this project. As it is clearly obvious from my writings that my understanding of the quran is completely different from all the rest........................

    That is what you are supposed to do to help humanity dear Mughal ., Instead of that you are in to youtubes .,   I guess that work of your's went out of the window..

    Any way., I have lot more other problems ., Thanks to hidden political games of Pakistan., I guess we are back on to streets

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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