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 Topic: Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation?

 (Read 21406 times)
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  • Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation?
     Reply #90 - April 29, 2022, 03:21 AM

    Dear yeezevee, greetings. Thank you for your good wishes. Hopefully you too are fine.

    Hello Mughal., I have time and intend to reply in detail to your wonderful greetings ..

    Well month is ending
    we need not fast anymore
    we can go back to the way
    we used to live
    Ramadhan   Mubarako
    I am fine
    I was fine
    I will be fine
    I came with nothing
    and I go with nothing


    Every one is listening sermons

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4KsR-3QtvE

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1505500620551516164

    and after this the war will start ., more important is your response on Quran and tafseer .. let me make zest your post as pointers

    Quote
    1_ I do intend to write my own tafseer of the quran but before I do that I wanted to have the clear basis upon which to base my tafseer of the quran.

    2_ I managed to discover the proper way to understand the quranic text. However I need to do two things

    one to write a dictionary of the words used in the quran.

    other thing ie decoding the message in the quran.

    This is the most time consuming project. I am too old to complete this project. However I am going to do this only for one part of the quran so that if I go away then someone after me could complete this project.

    well simple START WRITING .. START WORKING ,,,

    Quran has 6,236 verses  excluding Bismillah and  if you include Bismillah as  a verse,  the book  has  6349 verses and  uses  some 77,430 words ,  there are 113  ]Bismillahs ,, So,  Quran is full of repeated words and repeated stories .. your work is easy .. start working ..
    .
    Quote
    After that I hope to start the other thing ie decoding the message in the quran. Again I do not know if I will be able to complete this project. As it is clearly obvious from my writings that my understanding of the quran is completely different from all the rest. It is because I take rationality and logical consistency very seriously. It is because I try to prove things on basis of defining proof.

    well good luck...  BUT   WHICH QURAN ARE YOU INTEND TO USE FOR YOUR WORK??

    The present GOOFY BOOK  with some 114 chapters with funny names  that was first put together in 1924 in that Egypt  Al-Azhar University??

    Let me paste something for you here

    Quote
    1924 Cairo edition
    The influential standard Quran of Cairo ("1342 Cairo text" using the Islamic calendar) is the Quran that was used throughout almost all the Muslim world until the Saudi Quran of 1985. The Egyptian edition is based on the "Ḥafṣ" version ("qira'at") based on ʻAsim's recitation, the 8th-century recitation of Kufa.  It uses a set of additional symbols and an elaborate system of modified vowel-signs and for minute details, not identical to any older system.
    Quote
    The Cairo edition has become the standard for modern printings of the Quran  with the exception of those used in all North Africa (excluding Egypt) where the Warsh version is used.[

    A committee of leading professors from Al-Azhar University[89] had started work on the project in 1907 but it was not until 10 July 1924 that the "Cairo Qur’an" was first published by Amiri Press under the patronage of Fuad I of Egypt,  as such, it is sometimes known as the "royal (amīriyya) edition."

    The goal of the government of the newly formed Kingdom of Egypt was not to delegitimize the other qir’at, but to eliminate that, which the colophon labels as errors, found in Qur’anic texts used in state schools. To do this they chose to preserve one of the fourteen Qira'at “readings”, namely that of Hafs  , student of ‘Asim. Its publication has been called a "terrific success", and the edition has been described as one "now widely seen as the official text of the Qur’an",

     so popular among both Sunni and Shi'a that the common belief among less well-informed Muslims is "that the Qur’an has a single, unambiguous reading", i.e. that of the 1924 Cairo version. Minor amendments were made later in 1924 and in 1936 - the "Faruq edition" in honour of then ruler, King Faruq.


    And that is one Quran .. and the other one is GO STRAIGHT TO  "SANAA MANUSCRIPTS" and work with them ..  here are  some links
    Quote

    good luck on your work with Quran.. and creating Quran word dictionary

    Quote
    If I ask people what is the ultimate purpose of life in their understanding, they fail to answer this question purposefully or objectively. Likewise if I ask people what is proof and how to prove things again they fail to answer this question. All because most of them have never thought about it in a serious way.. They live in an imaginary world of their own ie cut off from ultimate reality. They fail badly to contextualise things.

    Purpose of Life??.. Oh my goodness
    well I failed miserably answering that Q, and I am still  looking for it where as you....... YOU ALREADY FOUND YOUR LIFE PURPOSE

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jac1C8Ni11U

    Quote
    As for your videos, you already know I am anti religion and anti secularism. This is very much obvious from my writings. I do not accept the idea of personal God. If there is a God then that God is God of everyone not just mine or yours. So if anyone bashes mullaans or philosophers or scientists for the right reasons then I am all for that.

     don't worry about those videos and my responses.. and I bash my head all the time..... 

    Quote
    In my view humanity can never find actual purpose of life without the proper study of the quranic text and likewise it cannot fulfil that purpose without the proper study of the quran.. I have this opinion due to my understanding of things.

     well good..... Glad to note that

    Quote
    Of course people have right to disagree with me but they will never have the valid reasons to do so. Disagreements between people without any real basis only ruin humanity.

    Noooooooooooo

    .. Me Disagreeing with you IS NOT GOING TO RUIN HUMANITY.....

      Cheesy

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation?
     Reply #91 - May 04, 2022, 10:28 AM

    Hello Mughal., I have time and intend to reply in detail to your wonderful greetings ..


    Dear yeezevee, thanks for your detailed reply but I will simply add my comments with your reply in brackets.

    Well month is ending (well months come and go and time never stops for anyone)

    we need not fast anymore (No one needs to fast unless one has some health problems which need to be sorted out through less food intake at times.)

    we can go back to the way

    we used to live (we have been living the way we have been always except when God decided to send his guidance for mankind and people decided to follow that guidance)

    Ramadhan   Mubarako (no there is no goodness in ramadhan because it is a period of strife and hardship and that is why the quran was revealed so that people unite and become peaceful and make progress and prosper as a proper human community.)
     
    I am fine
    I was fine
    I will be fine

    (May God make you fine and keep you fine)

    I came with nothing ( we humans were sent in this world by God with everything we will ever need to carry out his mission)

    and I go with nothing
    (Hope you do not go empty handed but play your part in grand scheme of things as God has asked us to do to make his world a paradise for all of us to show greatness of God through our own efforts and hard works)

    Every one is listening sermons (mullaan sermons are misleading, they just make up stories as they go which make no sense)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4KsR-3QtvE

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1505500620551516164

    and after this the war will start ., more important is your response on Quran and tafseer .. let me make zest your post as pointers
    well simple START WRITING .. START WORKING , (yes I will as soon as I can.)

    Quran has 6,236 verses  excluding Bismillah and  if you include Bismillah as  a verse,  the book  has  6349 verses and  uses  some 77,430 words ,  there are 113  ]Bismillahs ,, So,  Quran is full of repeated words and repeated stories .. your work is easy .. start working ..
    .well good luck...  BUT   WHICH QURAN ARE YOU INTEND TO USE FOR YOUR WORK??

    The present GOOFY BOOK  with some 114 chapters with funny names  that was first put together in 1924 in that Egypt  Al-Azhar University??

    Let me paste something for you here
    A committee of leading professors from Al-Azhar University[89] had started work on the project in 1907 but it was not until 10 July 1924 that the "Cairo Qur’an" was first published by Amiri Press under the patronage of Fuad I of Egypt,  as such, it is sometimes known as the "royal (amīriyya) edition."

    The goal of the government of the newly formed Kingdom of Egypt was not to delegitimize the other qir’at, but to eliminate that, which the colophon labels as errors, found in Qur’anic texts used in state schools. To do this they chose to preserve one of the fourteen Qira'at “readings”, namely that of Hafs  , student of ‘Asim. Its publication has been called a "terrific success", and the edition has been described as one "now widely seen as the official text of the Qur’an",

     so popular among both Sunni and Shi'a that the common belief among less well-informed Muslims is "that the Qur’an has a single, unambiguous reading", i.e. that of the 1924 Cairo version. Minor amendments were made later in 1924 and in 1936 - the "Faruq edition" in honour of then ruler, King Faruq.

    And that is one Quran .. and the other one is GO STRAIGHT TO  "SANAA MANUSCRIPTS" and work with them ..  here are  some links good luck on your work with Quran.. and creating Quran word dictionary
    Purpose of Life??.. Oh my goodness
    well I failed miserably answering that Q, and I am still  looking for it where as you....... YOU ALREADY FOUND YOUR LIFE PURPOSE

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jac1C8Ni11U
     don't worry about those videos and my responses.. and I bash my head all the time..... 
     well good..... Glad to note that
    Noooooooooooo

    (if you will read through my walls of text you will see that I have explained away all these points people raise against the authenticity of the quranic text so no point in repeating what I have said already)

    .. Me Disagreeing with you IS NOT GOING TO RUIN HUMANITY.....  (Yes, it will if you have no solid basis to disagree. If you have then you will be able to convince me to your side. It is simple as that)

      Cheesy

    with best wishes (My regards and best wishes for you and all the others on this forum who have managed to read what I have written. Blessings of God be upon all.of us)

    I am a student of quran and islam and not an exmuslim.
  • Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation?
     Reply #92 - May 04, 2022, 10:50 AM

    If we look into surah annaas ie 114 chapter of the quran. What message it contains for mankind?

    In it God tells us he is God of whole of mankind. He asks his messenger or missionary to tell rest of people what God wants them to do ie seek refuge in God ie in guidance of God. How can people seek refuge in God? Simply by living the way God tells people to live so that they stop hurting each other for their petty personal gains and start complementing and supporting each other to establish way of life told by God ie deen of islam.

    This surah also tells us to be careful about people with bad intentions because they will do all they can to cause troubles between people with their wrong ideologies.

    What mullaan made up stories tell us about this surah? They tell us people done some magic on messenger of God and God sent him these couple of surahs to tell him to read and blow them upon himself to save himself from their magic etc. So one can see why people must not follow mullaans and instead learn themselves how to make proper sense of quranic message.

    Idea is very simple to understand ie to do all that is good for one another and never do bad to each other. If we all did this imagine what kind of human world will come about? This is how one can clearly see what actual message of the quran is for mankind. 

    I am a student of quran and islam and not an exmuslim.
  • Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation?
     Reply #93 - May 04, 2022, 11:24 AM

    well hard to read .. so let me make Mughal's post readable so the reader will know who is saying what

    Mughal: Dear yeezevee, thanks for your detailed reply but I will simply add my comments with your reply in brackets.

    Quote
    yeezevee :  Well month is ending we need not fast anymore
    Mughal: well months come and go and time never stops for anyone  No one needs to fast unless one has some health problems which need to be sorted out through less food intake at times.


    Quote
    yeezevee :  we can go back to the way we used to live
    Mughal: we have been living the way we have been always except when God decided to send his guidance for mankind and people decided to follow that guidance


    Quote
    yeezevee :  Ramadhan   Mubarako
    Mughal: no there is no goodness in ramadhan because it is a period of strife and hardship and that is why the quran was revealed so that people unite and become peaceful and make progress and prosper as a proper human community.

     
    Quote
    yeezevee : 
    I am fine
    I was fine
    I will be fine
    Mughal: May God make you fine and keep you fine


    Quote
    yeezevee :  I came with nothing and I go with nothing
    Mughal: we humans were sent in this world by God with everything we will ever need to carry out his mission Hope you do not go empty handed but play your part in grand scheme of things as God has asked us to do to make his world a paradise for all of us to show greatness of God through our own efforts and hard works


    Quote
    yeezevee :  Every one is listening sermons
    Mughal: mullaan sermons are misleading, they just make up stories as they go which make no sense


    Quote
    yeezevee :  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4KsR-3QtvE

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1505500620551516164

    and after this the war will start ., more important is your response on Quran and tafseer .. let me make zest your post as pointers
    well simple START WRITING .. START WORKING ,
    Mughal: yes I will as soon as I can.


    Quote
    Quote
    yeezevee :  Quran has 6,236 verses  excluding Bismillah and  if you include Bismillah as  a verse,  the book  has  6349 verses and  uses  some 77,430 words ,  there are 113  ]Bismillahs ,, So,  Quran is full of repeated words and repeated stories .. your work is easy .. start working ..
    .well good luck...  BUT   WHICH QURAN ARE YOU INTEND TO USE FOR YOUR WORK??

    The present GOOFY BOOK  with some 114 chapters with funny names  that was first put together in 1924 in that Egypt  Al-Azhar University??

    Let me paste something for you here
    A committee of leading professors from Al-Azhar University[89] had started work on the project in 1907 but it was not until 10 July 1924 that the "Cairo Qur’an" was first published by Amiri Press under the patronage of Fuad I of Egypt,  as such, it is sometimes known as the "royal (amīriyya) edition."

    The goal of the government of the newly formed Kingdom of Egypt was not to delegitimize the other qir’at, but to eliminate that, which the colophon labels as errors, found in Qur’anic texts used in state schools. To do this they chose to preserve one of the fourteen Qira'at “readings”, namely that of Hafs  , student of ‘Asim. Its publication has been called a "terrific success", and the edition has been described as one "now widely seen as the official text of the Qur’an",

     so popular among both Sunni and Shi'a that the common belief among less well-informed Muslims is "that the Qur’an has a single, unambiguous reading", i.e. that of the 1924 Cairo version. Minor amendments were made later in 1924 and in 1936 - the "Faruq edition" in honour of then ruler, King Faruq.

    And that is one Quran .. and the other one is GO STRAIGHT TO  "SANAA MANUSCRIPTS" and work with them ..  here are  some links good luck on your work with Quran.. and creating Quran word dictionary
    Purpose of Life??.. Oh my goodness
    well I failed miserably answering that Q, and I am still  looking for it where as you....... YOU ALREADY FOUND YOUR LIFE PURPOSE

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jac1C8Ni11U
     don't worry about those videos and my responses.. and I bash my head all the time..... 
     well good..... Glad to note that

     
    Mughal: if you will read through my walls of text you will see that I have explained away all these points people raise against the authenticity of the quranic text so no point in repeating what I have said already

    Quote
    yeezevee :  Me Disagreeing with you IS NOT GOING TO RUIN HUMANITY.....  (Yes, it will if you have no solid basis to disagree. If you have then you will be able to convince me to your side. It is simple as that)   Cheesy

    with best wishes
     Mughal: My regards and best wishes for you and all the others on this forum who have managed to read what I have written. Blessings of God be upon all.of us


    well that I can read ... anyways thank you for the response and let me watch the moon




    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation?
     Reply #94 - May 05, 2022, 12:51 PM

    well hard to read .. so let me make Mughal's post readable so the reader will know who is saying what

    As I often say .. It is difficult to read Quran and I can say now it is also becoming difficult to read Mughal's  wall of text posts as well as the above post ...lol..  In such narrations it is often taxing to figure out .. ....WHO IS SAYING WHAT & WHY....  So I have to redo that Mughal's post., EVERYTHING IS GOOD except these two responses
     
    Quote
    VERSE 1). 
    Quote
    yeezevee :  I came with nothing and I go with nothing
    Mughal: we humans were sent in this world by God with everything we will ever need to carry out his mission Hope you do not go empty handed but play your part in grand scheme of things as God has asked us to do to make his world a paradise for all of us to show greatness of God through our own efforts and hard works


    VERSE 2. 
    Quote
    Quote
    yeezevee :  Quran has 6,236 verses  excluding Bismillah and  if you include Bismillah as  a verse,  the book  has  6349 verses and  uses  some 77,430 words ,  there are 113  ]Bismillahs ,, So,  Quran is full of repeated words and repeated stories .. your work is easy .. start working ..
    .well good luck...  BUT   WHICH QURAN ARE YOU INTEND TO USE FOR YOUR WORK??

    The present GOOFY BOOK  with some 114 chapters with funny names  that was first put together in 1924 in that Egypt  Al-Azhar University??

    Let me paste something for you here
    A committee of leading professors from Al-Azhar University[89] had started work on the project in 1907 but it was not until 10 July 1924 that the "Cairo Qur’an" was first published by Amiri Press under the patronage of Fuad I of Egypt,  as such, it is sometimes known as the "royal (amīriyya) edition."

    The goal of the government of the newly formed Kingdom of Egypt was not to delegitimize the other qir’at, but to eliminate that, which the colophon labels as errors, found in Qur’anic texts used in state schools. To do this they chose to preserve one of the fourteen Qira'at “readings”, namely that of Hafs  , student of ‘Asim. Its publication has been called a "terrific success", and the edition has been [font=Verdana][u][b]described as one "now widely seen as the official text of the Qur’an",[/b][/u][/font]

     so popular among both Sunni and Shi'a that the common belief among less well-informed Muslims is "that the Qur’an has a single, unambiguous reading", i.e. that of the 1924 Cairo version. Minor amendments were made later in 1924 and in 1936 - the "Faruq edition" in honour of then ruler, King Faruq.

    And that is one Quran .. and the other one is GO STRAIGHT TO  [font=Verdana][u][b]"SANAA MANUSCRIPTS" [/b][/u][/font]and work with them ..  here are  some links good luck on your work with Quran.. and creating Quran word dictionary
    Purpose of Life??.. Oh my goodness
    well I failed miserably answering that Q, and I am still  looking for it where as you....... YOU ALREADY FOUND YOUR LIFE PURPOSE

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jac1C8Ni11U
     don't worry about those videos and my responses.. and I bash my head all the time..... 
     well good..... Glad to note that

     
    Mughal: if you will read through my walls of text you will see that I have explained away all these points people raise against the authenticity of the quranic text so no point in repeating what I have said already


    Well I must say in that Mughal/yeezevee  Quran verses_discourses .. THOSE TWO VERSES I WOULD AGREE TO DISAGREE ., but there is no point of going further on that disagreement ., So move on to Mughal's post on that last chapter...chapter 114 of Quran .. this is what Mughal says

    If we look into surah annaas ie 114 chapter of the quran. What message it contains for mankind?

    In it God tells us he is God of whole of mankind. He asks his messenger or missionary to tell rest of people what God wants them to do ie seek refuge in God ie in guidance of God. How can people seek refuge in God? Simply by living the way God tells people to live so that they stop hurting each other for their petty personal gains and start complementing and supporting each other to establish way of life told by God ie deen of islam.

    This surah also tells us to be careful about people with bad intentions because they will do all they can to cause troubles between people with their wrong ideologies.

    What mullaan made up stories tell us about this surah? They tell us people done some magic on messenger of God and God sent him these couple of surahs to tell him to read and blow them upon himself to save himself from their magic etc. So one can see why people must not follow mullaans and instead learn themselves how to make proper sense of quranic message.

    Idea is very simple to understand ie to do all that is good for one another and never do bad to each other. If we all did this imagine what kind of human world will come about? This is how one can clearly see what actual message of the quran is for mankind. 

    Well I read that last chapter Surah  AnNas ( The Man Kind)  innumerable times.,  but dear Mughal did you know that LAST CHAPTER PF THE BOOK actually a 21st surah in the revelation order., I am sure you know compilation order of the book is different from revelation order., Long time ago .. some 9 year ago  December 31, 2013, 06:03 PM I wrote something on that surah  at https://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=16106.msg726977#msg726977   
     
    It is after all 6 verses surah.. let me put it to re-read those verses

    Quote
    Surah 114

    Say: I seek refuge in the Lord of men,
    The King of men,
    The god of men,
    From the evil of the whisperings of the slinking ,
    Who whispers into the hearts of men,
    From among the jinn and the men.

    yes.. yes.. slinking   ... AND JINNS...

    its implications are not just these first three verses

    I seek refuge in the Lord of men,
    The King of men,
    The god of men
    ,

    that is wonderful.. but you know what MULLAHS &THEIR FOLLOWERS DID WITH THE HELP OF EDUCATED FOLKS  LIKE YOU(& some time ago me))  THEY  DID  THIS   with those two words   ....slinking   ... AND JINNS...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XogKU-4TJ5M

    and they  did such things ((in the name of understanding Allah words from Quran)) before that brutal event  .....before our birth..... and after that event.... and even after our demise....

    So My dear friend you are Ooold .. I am getting old.,  but you understand very little of what .....ORIGINAL QURAN SAID..... and how it is transformed in to a POLITICAL LYNCHING FORCE IN THE NAME OF ALLAH...GOD...

    oh well ... Allah bless you.. but for me I will listen to Ramadan Sermons 

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7i11LU0DSXk

    and watch young  ladies speak out

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-oLSIGXvF4

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFG2k5g5tH8

    I know you are old and I am also walking  right behind you ., but those young ladies .....  my hats of to them..    WHERE WE FAILED THEY WILL CHANGE ISLAM   my friend

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation?
     Reply #95 - May 22, 2022, 10:16 AM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI6W1bcMfA0
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ_7ZxFgdqs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIdCX4Eo7DQ


    I am a student of quran and islam and not an exmuslim.
  • Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation?
     Reply #96 - May 22, 2022, 01:42 PM



    what is the point of those videos  of that young fellow  Hafiz Atif Khan dear Mughal?  well if you like that then watch all of  Hafiz Atif tubes

    https://www.youtube.com/c/HafizAtifKhan

    But you are supposed to work with Quran.,

    Quote
    .....I do intend to write my own tafseer of the quran but before I do that I wanted to have the clear basis upon which to base my tafseer of the quran.....


    I managed to discover the proper way to understand the quranic text. However I need to do two things one to write a dictionary of the words used in the quran. This is the most time consuming project.

    I am too old to complete this project. However I am going to do this only for one part of the quran so that if I go away then someone after me could complete this project.

    After that I hope to start the other thing ie decoding the message in the quran. Again I do not know if I will be able to complete this project. As it is clearly obvious from my writings that my understanding of the quran is completely different from all the rest........................

    That is what you are supposed to do to help humanity dear Mughal ., Instead of that you are in to youtubes .,   I guess that work of your's went out of the window..

    Any way., I have lot more other problems ., Thanks to hidden political games of Pakistan., I guess we are back on to streets

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation?
     Reply #97 - July 01, 2022, 10:31 PM

    what is the point of those videos  of that young fellow  Hafiz Atif Khan dear Mughal?  well if you like that then watch all of  Hafiz Atif tubes

    https://www.youtube.com/c/HafizAtifKhan

    But you are supposed to work with Quran.,
    I managed to discover the proper way to understand the quranic text. However I need to do two things one to write a dictionary of the words used in the quran. This is the most time consuming project.

    I am too old to complete this project. However I am going to do this only for one part of the quran so that if I go away then someone after me could complete this project.

    After that I hope to start the other thing ie decoding the message in the quran. Again I do not know if I will be able to complete this project. As it is clearly obvious from my writings that my understanding of the quran is completely different from all the rest........................
    That is what you are supposed to do to help humanity dear Mughal ., Instead of that you are in to youtubes .,   I guess that work of your's went out of the window..

    Any way., I have lot more other problems ., Thanks to hidden political games of Pakistan., I guess we are back on to streets

    with best wishes
    yeezevee


    Dear yeezevee, the point of sharing videos is to show that people are waking up and questioning things and are offering alternative good explanations for things related to quran and islam.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rvDsKRRtbw

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTP25xNJLu0

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNIW0P0XqIYyoP-mDyWcNfQ/playlists

    regards and all the best.

    I am a student of quran and islam and not an exmuslim.
  • Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation?
     Reply #98 - July 02, 2022, 09:55 AM

    hello Mughal ., glad to see your response ., although I expected much better response than what I read ., I guess it was due to time limitation.,  But I must say I was happy to read  few lines from you instead of wall of text   Cheesy  ..  Please keep your health intact   and kick start the work on Quran .. YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING OF QUARN.. I think that is important
    Dear yeezevee, the point of sharing videos is to show that people are waking up and questioning things and are offering alternative good explanations for things related to quran and islam  .

    well I will only take part of your statement as i do not understand the underlined statement of your response .,  As far as "people are waking up and questioning things"   is concerned .,  what are you talking dear Mughal??   it appears that you have not read 7th and 11 century Muslim folks who woke up and questioned Quranic statements., IN FACT I CONSIDER THAT AS GOLDEN PERIOD OF ISLAM., please read   Mu'tazilite scholars of Islam .. such as the intellectual giants of Islamic theology...

    Amr Ibn Ubayd ibn Bāb ... 710?? -761
    Abu al-Abbas Abdallah ibn Harun al-Rashid  786 – 833
    Ibn al-Rawandi  ......827–911 CE

    start with their Islam., It is already late for you.... I am surprised  that you are such a patient reader and writer that you did not read the works of  Mu'tazilite scholars of Islam

    Quote

    errrr,,, rubbish superstitious videos ., Islam is filled with such foolish fellows.. why waste time on them?   so let me read these  ...

    https://www.dawn.com/news/1697781/israels-secret-weapon   ... by prof..  Pervez Hoodbhoy

    and watch this guy and his life

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNUATS8Jhuk

    and read fascinating real life story of  that guy

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation?
     Reply #99 - July 31, 2022, 08:48 AM

    hello Mughal ., glad to see your response ., although I expected much better response than what I read ., I guess it was due to time limitation.,  But I must say I was happy to read  few lines from you instead of wall of text   Cheesy  ..  Please keep your health intact   and kick start the work on Quran .. YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING OF QUARN.. I think that is important well I will only take part of your statement as i do not understand the underlined statement of your response .,  As far as "people are waking up and questioning things"   is concerned .,  what are you talking dear Mughal??   it appears that you have not read 7th and 11 century Muslim folks who woke up and questioned Quranic statements., IN FACT I CONSIDER THAT AS GOLDEN PERIOD OF ISLAM., please read   Mu'tazilite scholars of Islam .. such as the intellectual giants of Islamic theology...

    Amr Ibn Ubayd ibn Bāb ... 710?? -761
    Abu al-Abbas Abdallah ibn Harun al-Rashid  786 – 833
    Ibn al-Rawandi  ......827–911 CE

    start with their Islam., It is already late for you.... I am surprised  that you are such a patient reader and writer that you did not read the works of  Mu'tazilite scholars of Islam
    errrr,,, rubbish superstitious videos ., Islam is filled with such foolish fellows.. why waste time on them?   so let me read these  ...

    https://www.dawn.com/news/1697781/israels-secret-weapon   ... by prof..  Pervez Hoodbhoy

    and watch this guy and his life

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNUATS8Jhuk

    and read fascinating real life story of  that guy

    with best wishes
    yeezevee


    Thank you for your response dear yeezevee. I am looking at islam from the very same angle as many others before me except that I am explaining things by way of very basic rules. I am calling into question all interpretations of the quran by all interpreters be they muslims or nonmuslims on basis of some rules that cannot be ignored as already explained by me in detail.

    I am calling into question definitions of things by many others. For example, what is proof and how does it prove a claim? People talk about anecdotes, personal experiences and circular reasoning and rubbish them. I on the other hand am showing very clearly that these are the only tools that are available to humanity to make sense of anything at all. Rubbishing them means writing off all our knowledge of things.

    Proof cannot be anything other than subjective. People cannot know anything other than what they have experienced so these things cannot be dismissed at all. See if you or anyone else here can explain why proof is subjective by its very nature?

    If we do not get basics right then whatever else we say or do makes no sense.

    All interpreters of the quran ignore these two main points so they dismiss the quran otherwise they could not have dismissed the quran. They say since quran makes claim and it gives no proofs so it is not true. They fail to realise that the quran is a statement by God by its claims and that what it tells us makes perfect sense provided we have prepared ourselves to understand the quran properly. They look for proofs out side the quran and that means they do not realise what proof is.

    If we have not worked out how to understand the quran properly then that is not fault of God or the quran but our own. If we do not understand the fact that proof can only and only be subjective then what else can we understand for sure? Nothing at all. If you do not see what I am trying to explain regarding proof then kindly let me know so I could explain this in a bit of detail for you. This is a fundamentally important point so we need to know it as it ought to be known. Only then we can discuss things we need to discuss. Only if get definition of proof right then we can see why the quran on its own is the proof of its claims.

    if anyone has explained what proof is then please share it with me so that I too could see whether it is a correct definition or not. If a definition tells us the proof is a subjective thing then it is a correct definition otherwise it is incorrect if it tell us the proof is an objective thing.

    Hopefully you will try and explain things in a bit of detail for me.

    Meanwhile regards and all the best.

    I am a student of quran and islam and not an exmuslim.
  • Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation?
     Reply #100 - July 31, 2022, 08:58 AM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnPorJh9IVg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmxYJelcMUc

    https://www.youtube.com/c/AlMosesPhDQuranStudent/videos

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi-bLjWr_Vg

    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sachwala+on+tv

    I am a student of quran and islam and not an exmuslim.
  • Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation?
     Reply #101 - July 31, 2022, 06:41 PM


    Hello Mughal.,  well you are NOT doing the work that you are supposed to do., and YOU KNOW WHAT IT IS...

    hence there is no point of you posting some you tubes of ex-Muslims of India and that video links of that  young man Hafiz Atif Khan they are useless .. and that young  Atif will run in circles for some times and he will grow out of it .

    Things are going very fast dear Mughal., here these are from yesterday., and these guys are way younger than you and me

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqk6ryr6YZM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHDqYOj1i7s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGi0_ITiPvc

     .....from Ex Pakistani and Indians .. So START WORKING ON QURAN..... 

    Some where I wrote this   Islam is just ONE SENTENCE

    لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله
     “La ilaha illallah”
    “There's no God but God”.

    And
    No Hadith
    No Quran
    No Muhammad
    No Mullah
    No Imam
    No Book

    Such Islam can work in near future and people can live with such Muslims folks  together in peace ...  well

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation?
     Reply #102 - August 02, 2022, 09:24 PM

    Hello Mughal.,  well you are NOT doing the work that you are supposed to do., and YOU KNOW WHAT IT IS...

    hence there is no point of you posting some you tubes of ex-Muslims of India and that video links of that  young man Hafiz Atif Khan they are useless .. and that young  Atif will run in circles for some times and he will grow out of it .

    Things are going very fast dear Mughal., here these are from yesterday., and these guys are way younger than you and me

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqk6ryr6YZM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHDqYOj1i7s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGi0_ITiPvc

     .....from Ex Pakistani and Indians .. So START WORKING ON QURAN..... 

    Some where I wrote this   Islam is just ONE SENTENCE

    لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله
     “La ilaha illallah”
    “There's no God but God”.

    And
    No Hadith
    No Quran
    No Muhammad
    No Mullah
    No Imam
    No Book

    Such Islam can work in near future and people can live with such Muslims folks  together in peace ...  well

    with best wishes
    yeezevee


    Dear yeezevee, people have no idea where to start when they start a debate about islam. All need to start from defining what is a proof and how it proves a claim. This will help people realise why the quran is called a proof and how it prove its claims. People call the quran a nonsense and say it is circular reasoning to accept the quran as the proof. It is because they have no idea what proof is and what proving is all about.

    In my view there is no point in people talking about everything without any real solid basis. It is just like primary school kids arguing in the play ground calling each other wrong without knowing why or how etc.

    Some people want a world without quran and I know for sure that that sort of world is impossible. The quran is here to stay and it will, no matter how much this statement is hated by them.

    It is because people need to try and understand the quranic text properly rather than just making silly statements against it.

    Here is a video in which a mullaan is showing his stupidity by telling people things in the name of islam but in a wrong sort of way.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsuogjSMky0

    The truth is God sent his messengers to guide mankind in the sense that I have explained it in detail. God is showing people the right way to live in this world so that this world becomes a paradise for them by their own making with help of each other. Mullaans need to explain to people that messengers of God come with a very powerful message from God but they are not super human beings who can do things magically due to having supernatural powers. Only if people will understand the God sent message properly and follow it faithfully that they will get a great life in this world and also in hereafter as a reward for it.

    God is giving humanity a building map to build according to it a human society. So if people will study that map properly and build their society according to it then both God and humanity will become pleased with each other. Humanity will become pleased with God because he has given them a great map and God will become pleased with humanity because it will have turned that map into a reality. So it is a win win situation for God and humanity both.

    This is why we must start with right definition of proof and proving and then with quran and islam etc etc. Otherwise we can argue all we like till the cows come home because that way we will do no good for ourselves nor for others.

    regards and all the best.

    I am a student of quran and islam and not an exmuslim.
  • Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation?
     Reply #103 - August 04, 2022, 02:24 PM

    hello Mughal  I will deal with the text of your above post in a different response but what is the point of putting this Indian Mullah video in to he post ??
    Dear yeezevee, people have no idea where to start when they start a debate about islam. All need to start from defining what is a proof and how it proves a claim. This will help people realise why the quran is called a proof and how it prove its claims. People call the quran a nonsense and say it is circular reasoning to accept the quran as the proof. It is because they have no idea what proof is and what proving is all about.

    In my view there is no point in people talking about everything without any real solid basis. It is just like primary school kids arguing in the play ground calling each other wrong without knowing why or how etc.

    Some people want a world without quran and I know for sure that that sort of world is impossible. The quran is here to stay and it will, no matter how much this statement is hated by them.

    It is because people need to try and understand the quranic text properly rather than just making silly statements against it.

    Here is a video in which a mullaan is showing his stupidity by telling people things in the name of islam but in a wrong sort of way

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsuogjSMky0

    The truth is God sent his messengers to guide mankind in the sense that I have explained it in detail. God is showing people the right way to live in this world so that this world becomes a paradise for them by their own making with help of each other. Mullaans need to explain to people that messengers of God come with a very powerful message from God but they are not super human beings who can do things magically due to having supernatural powers. Only if people will understand the God sent message properly and follow it faithfully that they will get a great life in this world and also in hereafter as a reward for it.

    God is giving humanity a building map to build according to it a human society. So if people will study that map properly and build their society according to it then both God and humanity will become pleased with each other. Humanity will become pleased with God because he has given them a great map and God will become pleased with humanity because it will have turned that map into a reality. So it is a win win situation for God and humanity both.

    This is why we must start with right definition of proof and proving and then with quran and islam etc etc. Otherwise we can argue all we like till the cows come home because that way we will do no good for ourselves nor for others.

    regards and all the best.

    Those Mullahs of India will be dealt by Indians but My interest is Mullahs from My good old land of pure .,So give me the videos from there .. I will deal with them.. In fact No mullah videos .. I have enough problems with these bearded brainless Islamic Idiots from Pakistan .. such as

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc78XTRlFYg

    I need to deal with that fool ., But Arzoo can deal with

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b6x0rn5mJs

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAGiCB4PyxQ

     such idiots as above that comes from that country

    well enjoy Mullah videos and I will respond to rest of your post  on Quran and its problems and why people do not understand it ..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation?
     Reply #104 - August 13, 2022, 04:57 PM

    Dear yeezevee ...........

    Here is a video in which a mullaan is showing his stupidity by telling people things in the name of islam but in a wrong sort of way.

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsuogjSMky0 

    dear Mughal., I sent that video to Indians to give me some info on that bearded baboon  from the video of your post  and they sent me these link of him

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D36sK_B24mY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfv5xpJ-Fos

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xEeBmrZ0UY

    http://oldislam.blogspot.com/p/molana-jarjees-ansari.html

    And I am passing that on to you .,  So you watch them., And I watch this video from an young man from Pakistan..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eicehMF5kwM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41xiBYFpMuQ

    He used to be ardent follower of that Indian Idiot Zakir Joker  and used to preach Islam on roads of Canada

    Quote
    The truth is God sent his messengers to guide mankind in the sense that  I have explained it in detail.   

    sorry to this but you explained NOTHING in this forum as well as other forums I used to interact with you dear Mughal.,

    That same statement
    Quote
    Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation?

    you are singing for the past twenty years.. And that song is of no use in 21st century  but it was useful before the age of internet .  We know since the beginning of human settlements and migration patterns  for the past  100, 000 years of  human history and we know their faith books of every faith that has come for the past 6000 years or so., All that is at our fingertips   

    So forget messengers., but as  you often said "YOU ARE TRYING TO RE-WRITE OR RE-EXPLAIN THE MESSENGERS MESSAGE., So work with the Message.,  work with Quran... .. THAT IS USEFUL ..... writing drivels around Quran is of  no use dear Mughal

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation?
     Reply #105 - August 28, 2022, 09:06 PM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAI5ONLhCOw

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80FIHig60EI

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5JoODSYtnal_L34i-JTQ5g/videos

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7ZlXD7COMU

    I am a student of quran and islam and not an exmuslim.
  • Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation?
     Reply #106 - October 13, 2022, 05:05 AM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMqO-tNC4J0

    I am a student of quran and islam and not an exmuslim.
  • Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation?
     Reply #107 - October 13, 2022, 06:28 AM

    oh my goodness gracious ..... Mughal   is back in action
    Hi Mughal  glad to see you .... and NOW YOU STOPPED READING QURAN but watching that Indian former Islam preacher "Sachwala" and other Indian Islam preaching fools ??

    I ASK YOU WHY??  I am of the opinion you are way more intelligent  and far well educated  than these guys ...  PLEASE READ QUARN..

    and here is the most recent video of Sachwala ..   well One Guy is from Pakistan and other guy is Indian.. Many including Arif left Pakistan .,  but that guy Sachwala lives in India.. I hope Indian government gives some sort of protection to him.   And Arif says he went back to Hinduism .. Off course  he is no more living in Pakistan.,     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdBzFdc12Kc

    that is Arif Aajakia who has his own you tube channel   .. I just watched that video.  Saxhwala ripping hadith  as well as Quran and here is verse((33:50)) that he says makes it Muhammad .. prophet of Islam is No good role model.. well you read it
    Quote
    33:50 
    Quote


    يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ إِنَّا أَحْلَلْنَا لَكَ أَزْوَاجَكَ اللَّاتِي آتَيْتَ أُجُورَهُنَّ وَمَا مَلَكَتْ يَمِينُكَ مِمَّا أَفَاءَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْكَ وَبَنَاتِ عَمِّكَ وَبَنَاتِ عَمَّاتِكَ وَبَنَاتِ خَالِكَ وَبَنَاتِ خَالَاتِكَ اللَّاتِي هَاجَرْنَ مَعَكَ وَامْرَأَةً مُّؤْمِنَةً إِن وَهَبَتْ نَفْسَهَا لِلنَّبِيِّ إِنْ أَرَادَ النَّبِيُّ أَن يَسْتَنكِحَهَا خَالِصَةً لَّكَ مِن دُونِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ ۗ قَدْ عَلِمْنَا مَا فَرَضْنَا عَلَيْهِمْ فِي أَزْوَاجِهِمْ وَمَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُهُمْ لِكَيْلَا يَكُونَ عَلَيْكَ حَرَجٌ ۗ وَكَانَ اللَّهُ غَفُورًا رَّحِيمًا


    Transliteration:   Ya ayyuha alnnabiyyu inna ahlalna laka azwajaka allatee atayta ojoorahunna wama malakat yameenuka mimma afaa Allahu AAalayka wabanati AAammika wabanati AAammatika wabanati khalika wabanati khalatika allatee hajarna maAAaka waimraatan muminatan in wahabat nafsaha lilnnabiyyi in arada alnnabiyyu an yastankihaha khalisatan laka min dooni almumineena qad AAalimna ma faradna AAalayhim fee azwajihim wama malakat aymanuhum likayla yakoona AAalayka harajun wakana Allahu ghafooran raheeman


    Yusuf Ali:   O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

    Shakir:   O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who fled with you; and a believing woman if she gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her-- specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers; We know what We have ordained for them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess in order that no blame may attach to you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

    Pickthall:   O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war, and the daughters of thine uncle on the father's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the father's side, and the daughters of thine uncle on the mother's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the mother's side who emigrated with thee, and a believing woman if she give herself unto the Prophet and the Prophet desire to ask her in marriage - a privilege for thee only, not for the (rest of) believers - We are Aware of that which We enjoined upon them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess - that thou mayst be free from blame, for Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.

    Mohsin Khan:   O Prophet (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم)! Verily, We have made lawful to you your wives, to whom you have paid their Mahr (bridal-money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage), and those (slaves) whom your right hand possesses - whom Allah has given to you, and the daughters of your 'Amm (paternal uncles) and the daughters of your 'Ammat (paternal aunts) and the daughters of your Khal (maternal uncles) and the daughters of your Khalat (maternal aunts) who migrated (from Makkah) with you, and a believing woman if she offers herself to the Prophet, and the Prophet wishes to marry her - a privilege for you only, not for the (rest of) the believers. Indeed We know what We have enjoined upon them about their wives and those (slaves) whom their right hands possess, in order that there should be no difficulty on you. And Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

    Saheeh:   O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation and those your right hand possesses from what Allah has returned to you [of captives] and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who emigrated with you and a believing woman if she gives herself to the Prophet [and] if the Prophet wishes to marry her, [this is] only for you, excluding the [other] believers. We certainly know what We have made obligatory upon them concerning their wives and those their right hands possess, [but this is for you] in order that there will be upon you no discomfort. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.

    Look at that pathetic verse ..  I DO NOT NEED SUCH QURAN.. .. so  I teared many such pages from my  Quran,, and  what I left in that book is Just stories of OT & NT ,, that is what I read.. Not even stories ... Just names from OT /NT ,, and here is Sachwala Channel 

    https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/sachwala

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation?
     Reply #108 - November 03, 2022, 06:57 AM

    oh my goodness gracious ..... Mughal   is back in action Hi Mughal  glad to see you .... and NOW YOU STOPPED READING QURAN but watching that Indian former Islam preacher "Sachwala" and other Indian Islam preaching fools ??

    I ASK YOU WHY??  I am of the opinion you are way more intelligent  and far well educated  than these guys ...  PLEASE READ QUARN..

    and here is the most recent video of Sachwala ..   well One Guy is from Pakistan and other guy is Indian.. Many including Arif left Pakistan .,  but that guy Sachwala lives in India.. I hope Indian government gives some sort of protection to him.   And Arif says he went back to Hinduism .. Off course  he is no more living in Pakistan.,     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdBzFdc12Kc

    that is Arif Aajakia who has his own you tube channel   .. I just watched that video.  Saxhwala ripping hadith  as well as Quran and here is verse((33:50)) that he says makes it Muhammad .. prophet of Islam is No good role model.. well you read it
    Yusuf Ali:   O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

    Shakir:   O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who fled with you; and a believing woman if she gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her-- specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers; We know what We have ordained for them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess in order that no blame may attach to you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

    Pickthall:   O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war, and the daughters of thine uncle on the father's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the father's side, and the daughters of thine uncle on the mother's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the mother's side who emigrated with thee, and a believing woman if she give herself unto the Prophet and the Prophet desire to ask her in marriage - a privilege for thee only, not for the (rest of) believers - We are Aware of that which We enjoined upon them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess - that thou mayst be free from blame, for Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.

    Mohsin Khan:   O Prophet (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم)! Verily, We have made lawful to you your wives, to whom you have paid their Mahr (bridal-money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage), and those (slaves) whom your right hand possesses - whom Allah has given to you, and the daughters of your 'Amm (paternal uncles) and the daughters of your 'Ammat (paternal aunts) and the daughters of your Khal (maternal uncles) and the daughters of your Khalat (maternal aunts) who migrated (from Makkah) with you, and a believing woman if she offers herself to the Prophet, and the Prophet wishes to marry her - a privilege for you only, not for the (rest of) the believers. Indeed We know what We have enjoined upon them about their wives and those (slaves) whom their right hands possess, in order that there should be no difficulty on you. And Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

    Saheeh:   O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation and those your right hand possesses from what Allah has returned to you [of captives] and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who emigrated with you and a believing woman if she gives herself to the Prophet [and] if the Prophet wishes to marry her, [this is] only for you, excluding the [other] believers. We certainly know what We have made obligatory upon them concerning their wives and those their right hands possess, [but this is for you] in order that there will be upon you no discomfort. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.
    Look at that pathetic verse ..  I DO NOT NEED SUCH QURAN.. .. so  I teared many such pages from my  Quran,, and  what I left in that book is Just stories of OT & NT ,, that is what I read.. Not even stories ... Just names from OT /NT ,, and here is Sachwala Channel 

    https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/sachwala

    with best wishes
    yeezevee


    Thank you dear yeezevee for your kind response. My problem is not only with nonmuslims but also with muslims when it comes to correct interpretations of the quran and ahaadis. I have made this very clear in my posts. I see that people do not think properly according to solid rules and facts. I want people to try and understand the quran and the hadis in light of real world realities. In my view quran is scientific and rational or logically consistent. The same is true about ahaadis that are according to the quran.

    Let me bring in an example to prove my point. People talk about the quran telling us that life of messenger of God is an example for humanity. What does it really mean in light of real world realities? Can any muslim or nonmuslim answer this question as they should? So far they have not. Is interpretation of mullaans, scientists and philosophers  correct or can it be correct? My answer is no. If muslim interpretation is incorrect then has any nonmuslim interpreted verse 33/21 of the quran correctly? Again the answer is no. My question is, why nonmuslims have not bothered to challenge mullaans for their such gross mistake?

    It is due to this major misinterpretation of the quran muslims and nonmuslims are stuck in backwardness. Why? Because from this wrong belief they assume that following the messenger of God means to do all that messenger of Allah did in his lifetime. Why is this interpretation of the quran and hadis wrong in my view? First, it is because no one can have lifetime record of anyone as to what one said and did etc etc. Now if no one can have such record about life of anyone then how can such a belief be practiced? It is impossible. Let alone anyone else one cannot have such record of one's own lifetime. Why not? Because it is impossible to have such record.

    Secondly, what one can gain by doing something someone else did just for sake of copying that person when that person actually needed to do that but others will be wasting their time by copying that person? For example, messenger of Allah did something because he actually needed to do it but why others need to do exactly the same just because he did it just for sake of copying him? I had food or drink because I was hungry or thirsty but why should you do the same just to copy me when you are neither hungry nor thirsty? So interpreting the quran wrongly has its consequences which could be very serious at times. By misinterpreting the quran this way people be they muslim or nonmuslim are proving their ignorance or insincerity on God and quran issue.

    Sunnah does not mean following messenger of Allah blindly but purposefully. That is messenger of Allah was send on a mission to bring about a proper human community which he did. Following him means doing things that need to be done for bringing about a proper human society and maintaining it. People turned islam into a religion by misinterpreting the quran and the hadis as I have explained it in detail already.

    Why people want to deliberately misinterpret the quran after knowing its right interpretation becomes clear ie they have alternative agendas that are not good for humanity. This is very clear from our education systems that we want to create slaves for the powerful and rich elite instead of creating a proper human society that benefits humanity greatly. This very clearly shows nonmuslims are as ignorant or dishonest as so people who claim to be muslims yet know nothing about actual deen of islam. They are worse than kufaar in my view for doing this to actual deen of islam.

    regards and all the best.

    I am a student of quran and islam and not an exmuslim.
  • Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation?
     Reply #109 - November 03, 2022, 05:44 PM

    Thank you dear yeezevee for your kind response. My problem is not only with nonmuslims but also with muslims when it comes to correct interpretations of the quran and ahaadis. I have made this very clear in my posts. I see that people do not think properly according to solid rules and facts. I want people to try and understand the quran and the hadis in light of real world realities. In my view quran is scientific and rational or logically consistent. The same is true about ahaadis that are according to the quran.

    Let me bring in an example to prove my point. People talk about the quran telling us that life of messenger of God is an example for humanity. What does it really mean in light of real world realities? Can any muslim or nonmuslim answer this question as they should? So far they have not. Is interpretation of mullaans, scientists and philosophers  correct or can it be correct? My answer is no. If muslim interpretation is incorrect then has any nonmuslim interpreted verse 33/21 of the quran correctly? Again the answer is no. My question is, why nonmuslims have not bothered to challenge mullaans for their such gross mistake?

    It is due to this major misinterpretation of the quran muslims and nonmuslims are stuck in backwardness. Why? Because from this wrong belief they assume that following the messenger of God means to do all that messenger of Allah did in his lifetime. Why is this interpretation of the quran and hadis wrong in my view? First, it is because no one can have lifetime record of anyone as to what one said and did etc etc. Now if no one can have such record about life of anyone then how can such a belief be practiced? It is impossible. Let alone anyone else one cannot have such record of one's own lifetime. Why not? Because it is impossible to have such record.

    Secondly, what one can gain by doing something someone else did just for sake of copying that person when that person actually needed to do that but others will be wasting their time by copying that person? For example, messenger of Allah did something because he actually needed to do it but why others need to do exactly the same just because he did it just for sake of copying him? I had food or drink because I was hungry or thirsty but why should you do the same just to copy me when you are neither hungry nor thirsty? So interpreting the quran wrongly has its consequences which could be very serious at times. By misinterpreting the quran this way people be they muslim or nonmuslim are proving their ignorance or insincerity on God and quran issue.

    Sunnah does not mean following messenger of Allah blindly but purposefully. That is messenger of Allah was send on a mission to bring about a proper human community which he did. Following him means doing things that need to be done for bringing about a proper human society and maintaining it. People turned islam into a religion by misinterpreting the quran and the hadis as I have explained it in detail already.

    Why people want to deliberately misinterpret the quran after knowing its right interpretation becomes clear ie they have alternative agendas that are not good for humanity. This is very clear from our education systems that we want to create slaves for the powerful and rich elite instead of creating a proper human society that benefits humanity greatly. This very clearly shows nonmuslims are as ignorant or dishonest as so people who claim to be muslims yet know nothing about actual deen of islam. They are worse than kufaar in my view for doing this to actual deen of islam.

    regards and all the best.

    dearest Mughal.,  I have to delay reading  your response so I can respond to that at a later times., More over you are telling/writing  same thing for a long time.    I fully agree to disagree with  many of your statements/conclusions on Quran/Islam/Prophet of Islam. .BUT  I FULLY SUPPORT YOUR RIGT TO HAVE YOUR BELIEF SYSTEM. Unfortunately things are going bad to worst in the country I come from and I have pay some attention .. So I will not be able to write a decent response to  your post and i have t postpone that ..

    and my good wishes to you
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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