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 Topic: Hagia Sophia_ Church to Mosque and Mosque to Museum., Now Museum to Mosque

 (Read 708 times)
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  • Hagia Sophia_ Church to Mosque and Mosque to Museum., Now Museum to Mosque
     OP - July 20, 2020, 02:54 PM

    Hagia Sophia _ Church to Mosque and Mosque  to Museum and Now  Now Museum to Mosque 

    well on that let me start with Mr. Erdogan's public address on Hagia Sophia..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x-ROvVnPXU

    and who else said what???

    Quote
    Quote
    New status of Hagia Sophia  By Zahid Hussain on  15 Jul, 2020


    THE reversion of the celebrated Hagia Sophia museum into a mosque is perhaps the most telling sign of the rolling back of Turkey’s secular character and a reflection of the rise of religious nationalism in the country. As a museum, this architectural wonder symbolised the idea of a common cultural heritage that transcended faith. The change of its status has removed that symbolism.

    While the decision by President Recep Tayyip Erdogan may have pleased his Islamist followers and his populist base, millions of Turks, as the country’s Nobel laureate Orhan Pamuk noted, “are crying against this but their voices are not heard”. The move has not only shaken the world, it has also divided the nation.

    Built some 1,500 years ago as an Orthodox Christian cathedral, the Hagia Sophia was converted into a mosque after the Ottoman conquest of Constantinople (Istanbul) in 1453. It was turned into a museum on the orders of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, the founding father of secular Turkey in 1934. The majestic complex has been declared by Unicef as a World Heritage Site and is one of the most popular tourist destinations in the world.

    Some sections of conservative Muslims had long campaigned for reopening the complex for prayers but they were in a minority. Turkey’s strong secular culture would not permit restoration of the heritage as a place of worship. However, the rise of the Islamists led by Erdogan is changing the country’s political landscape.

    Quote
    The rise of the Islamists led by Erdogan is changing the country’s political landscape.

    Although the secular character of the state is still protected by the Turkish constitution, the resurgence of faith and the confluence of faith and politics has weakened the Kemalist order. Erdogan’s latest action, coming after a court ruling, has raised questions about Turkey’s image as a moderate Muslim country.

    By changing its status, the universal nature of Hagia Sophia’s heritage is affected. The complex reflects centuries of interaction between Europe and Asia, and to treat it as the heritage of a particular faith will be seen as a negation of its overall historical value. Such an approach can also fuel religious fanaticism and widen religious divides, besides causing a shift in the perception of Turkey as an open society. Many may see it as shift towards exclusion.

    During the mediaeval ages, it was a common practice of conquerors everywhere to convert places of worship of the vanquished to premises for the practice of their own religion. There have been a number of examples where churches were turned into mosques and mosques into churches. Hagia Sophia was also such an example. By turning it into a museum, Mustafa Kemal had restored history. It also reinforced Istanbul’s position as the city where different cultures and faiths could coexist.

    Erdogan’s action of reversing this aspect of the Kemalist legacy has intensified the clash between those who want Turkey to remain secular and the conservative support base of the Turkish president. The issue has highlighted the battle for the soul of Turkey. “To convert it back to a mosque is to say to the rest of the world unfortunately we are not secular anymore,” Orhan Pamuk was quoted as saying.

    Predictably, the decision has provoked intense international outrage. In a statement, Unesco, the UN’s cultural agency, has warned Turkish authorities against “taking any decision that might impact the universal value of the site”. Several Western countries have also protested.

    But the Turkish president does not seem bothered over the outcry. He has defended his action by stressing that the country had exercised its sovereign right in converting the museum into a mosque. This argument does not sound very convincing.

    Many Turks also question the timing of the move at a time when the country is badly affected by the Covid-19 pandemic, the economy is in a slump and tourism is non-existent. Some see it as a political move in that it is meant to assert a strident nationalism as part of the battle against the president’s secular rivals.

    Erdogan’s move cannot be seen in isolation. It reflects the increasing instrumentalisation of religion in order to solidify his populist support base. In fact, at a more general level, it symbolises the rise of right-wing nationalism and religious chauvinism around the world today.

    In recent years, religiously inspired nationalist movements have gained prominence in several countries around the world. The confluence of politics and religion has also generated exclusiveness and majoritianism. The tendency to drive political legitimacy through religion has serious implications for the democratic process and political development in society.

    Quote
    Turkey under President Erdogan is such an example. He has used religious nationalism to undermine democratic rights and freedom of expression and faith. According to media reports in the past decade, less famous former churches in other parts of Turkey have resumed services as mosques.

    Yet Turkey is not the only country that is witnessing the rise of a strident religious nationalism and chauvinism. There are many democracies worldwide that are also experiencing the emergence of such political movements holding a strong religious appeal, including countries as diverse as India and some countries of Latin America and Western Europe.


    In fact, Hagia Sophia is not the only historical site that has seen a religious reversion. Similar moves have been part of state policy elsewhere too. For instance, the Indian supreme court last year endorsed the 1992 demolition of the 16th-century Babri Masjid by Hindu fundamentalists aligned with the current ruling BJP, who believed it was built atop the birthplace of Ram. The issue may have helped the party galvanise the religious vote bank, but at the expense of India’s secular character.


    Religious conflicts are being increasingly weaponised by virulent nationalist forces to assert their political brand. It is a highly dangerous proposition as appeals to religion invariably create an opening for a more strident nationalism. Conversions of such sites reflect an aggressive nationalism that presents one of the most serious challenges for the civilised world. What is happening in Turkey, India and some other parts of the world must be a serious cause of international concern.

    The writer is an author and journalist.

    zhussain100@yahoo.com



    well only hope is .. My good friend Imran Khan do not take the country in  that direction..  but who knows .. allah knows the best ..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Hagia Sophia_ Church to Mosque and Mosque to Museum., Now Museum to Mosque
     Reply #1 - July 24, 2020, 08:02 PM

    turkish economy heading into toilet and religious nationalism won't pay the bills. meanwhile, pakistan can only dream of a toilet economy.
  • Hagia Sophia_ Church to Mosque and Mosque to Museum., Now Museum to Mosque
     Reply #2 - July 28, 2020, 04:41 AM

    Quote
    My good friend Imran Khan do not take the country in  that direction..  but who knows .. allah knows the best ..


    You seem to have a crush on Imran Khan lol. Do you have his number? Tell him to stop pandering to the backward imams of his country and focus on real issues. And if it's possible, establish some sort of dialogue with India. OK, maybe scratch that last bit lol. Still, no one wants to see mushroom clouds over the region.
  • Hagia Sophia_ Church to Mosque and Mosque to Museum., Now Museum to Mosque
     Reply #3 - July 28, 2020, 02:27 PM

    You seem to have a crush on Imran Khan lol. Do you have his number?

    crush is wrong word dear Ward_End .  I am a guy that too friends.. men and women joke all the time that I am an alpha male., WHICH I AM NOT .. but I do stick to my guns., anyway you are right., I still will give him a  benefit of doubt ., Yes through contacts .. there is a chance  he reads rascals like me...

    Quote
    Tell him to stop pandering to the backward imams of his country and focus on real issues.

    He is a believer., there is nothing wrong with it.,  and HE IS NOT PONDERING TO IDIOTIC Imams.. he is trying to use them., he knows how to use people.. including women ., as far as real issues are concerned .. he is trying his best ,, but you know problems are immense.,  Unfortunately he also falls for sycophancy
    Quote
    And if it's possible, establish some sort of dialogue with India. OK, maybe scratch that last bit lol. Still, no one wants to see mushroom clouds over the region.

    ..

    No..no..no.., as long as he is in charge of Pakistan  .. He will not go for those mushroom clouds., if it happens it will be on his dead body... He actually likes India and Indians .. and he loved his mother immensely



    and watch Imran's Second wife  what she is saying about India and Imran Khan

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xUCyjsgNO0

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Hagia Sophia_ Church to Mosque and Mosque to Museum., Now Museum to Mosque
     Reply #4 - July 29, 2020, 04:46 PM

    Quote
    He is a believer., there is nothing wrong with it.,  and HE IS NOT PONDERING TO IDIOTIC Imams.. he is trying to use them., he knows how to use people..


    Pandering or using, there's not a whole lot of difference to me.

    Quote
    and watch Imran's Second wife  what she is saying about India and Imran Khan


    I can certainly watch but I can't get much out of what she's saying, I'm the child of semi-literate Mirpuri villagers, having grown up in England. Urdu is a luxury!
  • Hagia Sophia_ Church to Mosque and Mosque to Museum., Now Museum to Mosque
     Reply #5 - August 03, 2020, 07:49 AM

    I posted this on the random Islamic history thread but it’s also relevant here. Anthony Kaldellis talking to Bob Ousterhout, the leading academic expert on Byzantine architecture, about the politics behind the conversion of Hagia Sophia back into a mosque.


    Byzantium and friends podcast: https://byzantiumandfriends.podbean.com/e/29-the-many-identities-of-hagia-sophia-past-and-present-with-bob-ousterhout/
    Quote
    The many identities of Hagia Sophia, past and present, with Bob Ousterhout

    Hagia Sophia is back in the news. To understand what is happening, we need to know the complex history of this building as a church, mosque, and museum, and the many parties that have sought to claim it. In this episode, Bob Ousterhout (University of Pennsylvania) illuminates this rich history, with a focus on the last century and a half, the current political forces, and the priority to preserve the history of the monument for all who wish to study and experience it. He is the author of the magisterial survey Eastern Medieval Architecture: The Building Traditions of Byzantium and Neighboring Lands (Oxford 2019), and an article on the topic at hand: 'From Hagia Sophia to Ayasofya: Architecture and the Persistence of Memory,' İstanbul Araştırmaları Yıllığı 2 (2013) 1-8, which is available here.

  • Hagia Sophia_ Church to Mosque and Mosque to Museum., Now Museum to Mosque
     Reply #6 - August 11, 2020, 11:20 PM

    Open Letter on the International Byzantine Congress and the Future of Byzantine Studies

    https://torch.web.ox.ac.uk/article/open-letter-on-the-international-byzantine-congress-and-the-future-of-byzantine-studies
  • Hagia Sophia_ Church to Mosque and Mosque to Museum., Now Museum to Mosque
     Reply #7 - August 12, 2020, 12:21 PM

    Open Letter on the International Byzantine Congress and the Future of Byzantine Studies

    https://torch.web.ox.ac.uk/article/open-letter-on-the-international-byzantine-congress-and-the-future-of-byzantine-studies


    more than that.. this link

    https://oxfordbyzantinesociety.wordpress.com/2020/01/12/the-byzness-12-01-2020/

    that is from THE OXFORD UNIVERSITY BYZANTINE SOCIETY  .,  and  is useful for those who are interested in understanding/trying to work in the  field of  Rise and fall of Byzantine political order and the future of Byzantine studies ., it give opportunity to publish papers and as well as  JOBS AND SCHOLARSHIP OPPORTUNITIES....

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Hagia Sophia_ Church to Mosque and Mosque to Museum., Now Museum to Mosque
     Reply #8 - August 21, 2020, 05:22 PM

    Turkey's Erdogan converts another former church into mosque   says news

    Quote
    Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan on Friday ordered another ancient Orthodox church, that became a mosque and then a popular Istanbul museum, to be turned back into a mosque. The decision to transform the Kariye Museum into a mosque came just a month after a similarly controversial conversion for the Unesco World Heritage-recognised Hagia Sophia. Both changes reflect Erdogan's apparent efforts to galvanise his more conservative and nationalist supporters at a time when Turkey is suffering a new spell of inflation and economic uncertainty caused by the coronavirus.

    But they have added to Turkey's tensions with Greece and its Orthodox Church. The Greek foreign ministry called the decision “yet another provocation against religious persons everywhere” by the Turkish government.  The 1,000-year-old building's history closely mirrors that of the Hagia Sophia — its bigger neighbour on the historic western bank of the Golden Horn estuary on the European side of Istanbul.

    The Holy Saviour in Chora was a medieval Byzantine church decorated with 14th century frescoes of the Last Judgement that remain treasured in the Christian world.  It was originally converted into the Kariye Mosque half a century after the 1453 conquest of Constantinople by the Ottoman Turks.

    It became the Kariye Museum after World War II as Turkey pushed ahead with the creation of a more secular new republic out of the ashes of the Ottoman Empire. A group of American art historians then helped restore the original church's mosaics and opened them up for public display in 1958.

    But Erdogan is placing an ever greater political emphasis on the battles that resulted in the defeat of Byzantium by the Ottomans. Turkey's top administrative court approved the museum's conversion into a mosque in November. “It's a place steeped in history which holds a lot of symbolism for a lot of different people,” said 48-year-old French tourist Frederic Sicard outside the building.

    “For me, [these conversions] are a little difficult to understand and to follow. But we would visit if it were a mosque. We might just have to arrange visits around prayer times.”  The sandy-coloured structure visible today replaced one created as part of a monastery in the fourth century when Constantinople was the new capital of the Roman Empire. It features a minaret in one corner and small cascading domes similar to those of other grand mosques whose calls to prayer echo over Istanbul.

    But inside it is filled with magnificent frescoes and mosaics that represent some of the finest examples of Byzantine art in the Christian world. Turkey's tumultuous efforts to reconcile these two histories form the underpinnings of the country's contemporary politics and social life. Opposition HDP party lawmaker Garo Paylan called the transformation “a shame for our country”.

    “One of the symbols of our country's deep, multicultural identity and multi-religious history has been sacrificed,” he said in a tweet. Yet some locals fully supported the change. There are dozens, hundreds of churches, synagogues in Istanbul and only a few of them have been opened to prayer as mosques,” said Yucel Sahin as he strolled by the building after the morning rain.

    “There is a lot of tolerance in our culture.“


    and here is that Church which became Museum..  now it is mosque..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcttB62A85I

    well that is the news from this brainless TURKEY


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Hagia Sophia_ Church to Mosque and Mosque to Museum., Now Museum to Mosque
     Reply #9 - August 23, 2020, 01:01 PM

    well on this problem of totalitarian regime in so-called Islamic lands ..let me read these wonderful Opeds...

    Quote


    all of them are from today's dawn.. wonderful eye opening opeds...  but one has to read and think  to open his mind..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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