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Theme Changer

 Topic: Muslim heritage?

 (Read 17699 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Muslim heritage?
     OP - June 02, 2019, 10:53 PM
    I saw Sajid Javid making his play for PM on a politics show today. The interviewer referred to his muslim heritage for some reason at one point.

    I'm not sure what the intended messaging was? He used to be a muslim but feels better now? Is there much support for a pseudo ex-muslims within the tory party? Why be so coy about his background?
  • Muslim heritage?
     Reply #1 - June 16, 2019, 12:59 PM
    This campaign video is basically about hard-working immigrants and their children. Is that the same group of people he appears to treat as 2nd class citizens and arbitrarily banishes to their countries of origin? Vote #TeamSaj

    https://mobile.twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1138357421183852545
  • Muslim heritage?
     Reply #2 - June 16, 2019, 11:36 PM
    Quote from: crumble on June 16, 2019, 12:59 PM
    This campaign video is basically about hard-working immigrants and their children. Is that the same group of people he appears to treat as 2nd class citizens and arbitrarily banishes to their countries of origin? Vote #TeamSaj

    https://mobile.twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1138357421183852545


    well dear crumble.. that is not true... yes being son of an immigrant  parents with responsibility and in politics he may sound harsh on some Government immigration policies .,   but  people like Javid has double problems being a son of immigrant parents...  ,He will feel lot more pressure and more responsible for well being of his country as well as his parents.. culture/religion whatever ....  So clash bound to happen., It is same / similar to  a Muslim kid criticizing Islam and his own Muslim father' Islam consequently his community faith .....   

    that video is OK but what he wrote above is foolish

    Quote
    I got into politics because I wanted to give back to our country, which has given me so many opportunities. I'm proud to be able to share my story with you. Check out my campaign video and join me at

    THAT IS NONSENSE ..  you can give back to your country without being a politician  .. and millions of folks have done that...
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Muslim heritage?
     Reply #3 - June 17, 2019, 12:30 AM
    The pressure to fit in with an anti-immigration party by undermining citizen rights based on ethnicity? I've never felt the need to be the biggest racist in the room just to fit in or improve my career prospects. Nor do I cite my skin colour or cultural/religious heritage as some kind of credential or mitigation - that would be pretty hypocritical for a coconut whether in or outside politics.
  • Muslim heritage?
     Reply #4 - June 17, 2019, 02:17 AM
    Quote from: crumble on June 17, 2019, 12:30 AM
    The pressure to fit in with an anti-immigration party by undermining citizen rights based on ethnicity? I've never felt the need to be the biggest racist in the room just to fit in or improve my career prospects.

    Well  he may be a Muslim... He may be racist he may  be everything you accuse but he is British born citizen and he has the right to choose any political party he likes  .. Moreover he is CONTESTING elections and wining UNLIKE LORDS & BARONS of UK SELECTED politicians such as these

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgMRiA9dZQs

    Quote
    Nor do I cite my skin colour or cultural/religious heritage as some kind of credential or mitigation - that would be pretty hypocritical for a coconut whether in or outside politics.

    well he is a politician  and to get elected by public he has every right to use all tricks within laws permitted in UK and that may include his color/religion/connections with Pakistani/Indian community etc..etc..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Muslim heritage?
     Reply #5 - June 17, 2019, 07:53 AM
    He doesn't identify as a muslim - remember, he interchangeably cites his muslim or pakistani heritage despite having left both far behind.
  • Muslim heritage?
     Reply #6 - June 17, 2019, 10:29 AM
    Quote from: crumble on June 17, 2019, 07:53 AM
    1. He doesn't identify as a muslim -

    2.   remember, he interchangeably cites his muslim or pakistani heritage despite having left both far behind.


    both of your statements points out  to  what i said..
    Quote from: yeezevee on June 17, 2019, 02:17 AM
    .......................... he is a politician  and to get elected by public he is using  use all tricks within laws permitted in UK and that may include his color/religion/connections with Pakistani/Indian community etc..etc..


    now  your 1st point 1. He doesn't identify as a muslim -

    that is for getting non-Muslim votes

    and your 2nd point..... 2.   remember, he interchangeably cites his muslim or pakistani heritage despite having left both far behind.............

    that is for getting votes of folk that have muslim or pakistani heritage

    Now crumble  what is your opinion on this today's news...

    Quote
    https://www.dawn.com/news/1488706/blogger-killed-in-islamabads-g-94-area-police-register-fir

    Blogger killed in Islamabad's G-9/4 area, police register FIR

    https://twitter.com/BilalKhanWriter

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_zKJXvuhWg

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Muslim heritage?
     Reply #7 - June 17, 2019, 12:20 PM
    I don't seem to have a quote button...

    His not being muslim is primary. Advertising the fact is secondary. Otherwise we agree.

    Comments on the dawn article point at either anti-islam or anti-ptm tweets as the reason for the killing. Either way, freedom of speech is particularly dangerous in countries like pakistan - best to post anonymously until law and order situation improves.
  • Muslim heritage?
     Reply #8 - June 17, 2019, 01:02 PM
    well  it really  doest not matter to me whether Sajid Javid gets elected or not in England ..  but your response on Muhammad Bilal Khan  murder
    Quote from: crumble on June 17, 2019, 12:20 PM
    .....................Comments on the dawn article point at either anti-islam or anti-ptm tweets as the reason for the killing. Either way, freedom of speech is particularly dangerous in countries like pakistan - best to post anonymously until law and order situation improves.

    tells me you  know very little about that Pashtun  and  political Islam around his  blogs, tweets and videos....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdqXUFs9v9I

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W0FXw0I7s4

    and you can watch other videos of him below...

    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Muhammad+Bilal+Khan

    but yous heading of this topic  "Muslim heritage"   is interesting...

    Now I wonder what  actually do you men by "Muslim Heritage "Huh?
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Muslim heritage?
     Reply #9 - June 17, 2019, 06:01 PM
    I didn't read his tweets or blog as not in english. Naturally, I don't claim to know anything beyond what's written on the quoted article.

    Would ask you to provide a summary and your own comments rather than links to youtube videos. I only have a basic working knowledge of urdu but sounds like he's telling off the maulvi for saying pathans breed like rabbits and increase criminality wherever they are, ie in karachi. None of that seems controversial enough to lead to his murder so I'm guessing the other video contains more answers but it's too long for casual viewing.

    As I see it, "heritage muslim" is just a euphemism for non-muslim with muslim parents.



  • Muslim heritage?
     Reply #10 - June 20, 2019, 01:18 AM
    Quote from: crumble on June 17, 2019, 06:01 PM
    I didn't read his tweets or blog as not in english. Naturally, I don't claim to know anything beyond what's written on the quoted article.

    Would ask you to provide a summary and your own comments rather than links to youtube videos. I only have a basic working knowledge of urdu but sounds like he's telling off the maulvi for saying pathans breed like rabbits and increase criminality wherever they are, ie in karachi. None of that seems controversial enough to lead to his murder so I'm guessing the other video contains more answers but it's too long for casual viewing.

    well   dear  crumble  Muhammad Bilal Khan  murdered  not   for his videos and blogs on Islam but due to his  ethnicity combined with his words against Patriotic Islamic Pakistan ,, anyways if you do not speak/read Urdu then that subject is irrelevant...    but this is interesting  from you
    Quote
    As I see it, "heritage muslim" is just a euphemism for non-muslim with muslim parents.

     
    and this one at https://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=31631.msg883390#msg883390
    Quote
    Hi there - I'm a coconut living in an................

     I'm more like a non-exmuslim lol.


    those are interesting words dear  crumble... lol..But I tell you., YOU ARE NOT A CRUMBLER .. you have very strong personality with individualism built in to you.. well on the way let me read these links..

    Hm APPG.......All Party Parliamentary Group...

    http://theconversation.com/why-uks-working-definition-of-islamophobia-as-a-type-of-racism-is-a-historic-step-107657
    https://policyexchange.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Defining-Islamophobia.pdf

    with best wishes
    yeezevee
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Muslim heritage?
     Reply #11 - June 20, 2019, 07:01 AM
    coconut is flippant but direct. non-exmuslim gives a similar flavour. heritage-muslim is doublespeak intended to misdirect.

    I'll reply about muslimness once I've read the linked blurb.
  • Muslim heritage?
     Reply #12 - June 20, 2019, 12:25 PM
    scanned through first link, not enough time for the 2nd one.

    so linking muslimness with race is fine within a certain context. the context being white europe and mostly brown immigrants who happen to be muslim. islamophobia on the british streets is interchangeable with racism against asians, usually pakistanis.

    some say you can't be racist against a religion but bigotry can be applied to any group of people with recognisable characteristics. the ideology of race has no monopoly on irrational hatred.
  • Muslim heritage?
     Reply #13 - June 20, 2019, 11:19 PM
    Quote from: crumble on June 20, 2019, 12:25 PM
    scanned through first link, not enough time for the 2nd one.

    so linking muslimness with race is fine within a certain context. the context being white europe and mostly brown immigrants who happen to be muslim. islamophobia on the british streets is interchangeable with racism against asians, usually pakistanis.

    some say you can't be racist against a religion but bigotry can be applied to any group of people with recognisable characteristics. the ideology of race has no monopoly on irrational hatred.

    Well crumble..I don't know I am confused since i started questioning Islam I wish i could be bold like ... Dr. Pervez Hoodbhoy

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd4Zxkh4gJo

    well  this All Party Parliamentary Group
    on British Muslims      says
    Quote
      “Islamophobia is rooted in racism and is a type of racism that targets expressions of Muslimness or perceived Muslimness.”

    and let me watch this

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nh-PdWBjkh4
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Muslim heritage?
     Reply #14 - June 21, 2019, 01:08 AM
    so you will have people using the persecution of muslimness as a cynical/delusional defence against legitimate criticism of religious arguments. in the same way, some ethnic people play the race card when it is not appropriate. yet the concept of racism is not undermined by those bad actors.

    I'm not sure about the usefulness of categorising islamophobia and it's causes - I suspect it's an attempt to rationalise the irrational or define good bigots and bad bigots. legitimate criticism should not fit within the anti-muslim arena whatever islamic apologists say.
  • Muslim heritage?
     Reply #15 - June 21, 2019, 01:34 AM
    found the full discussion between hoodbhoy and tzortis - it's a bit long but looks like fun example of science versus pseudo science. is it odd that the proponent of the latter was invited to an apparently elite university in pakistan? it makes me wonder about the mindset of the teachers and students
  • Muslim heritage?
     Reply #16 - June 21, 2019, 02:52 AM
    Quote from: crumble on June 21, 2019, 01:34 AM
    found tzortis - ...................................


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=287388vONrs

    Scoundrels like that one who moved in to Islam is the reason why Islam got and gets bad name ., This ruining of simple faith by the thugs who moved in to Islam  is happening since the day that first preachers of Islam died  way before Islam.. the political Islam began in the name Muhammad.. a unknown character of Islam ..

    and thanks to these thugs and their silly stories of Islam .,  news  like these are happening for the past 1400 years

    Court sentences Lahore man to death over blasphemy
    and that is today's news,,
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Muslim heritage?
     Reply #17 - June 21, 2019, 05:25 PM
    as hoodbhoy says, he is a good entertainer but I'm not sure we can blame clowns like him for everything. after all, those who make a career from religion need a receptive audience and the noose only tightens around the blasphemer's neck when the audience applaud.
  • Muslim heritage?
     Reply #18 - June 21, 2019, 06:05 PM
    Quote from: crumble on June 21, 2019, 05:25 PM
    as hoodbhoy says, ...........

    lucky  dr. Pervez Hoodbhoy  only lost his job as Physics Professor..

    https://lubpak.net/archives/230304

    Any other small time lecturer/student could have lost his/her life  with that Blasphemy accusation 

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07pOd2nKWTo

     
    RIP ..Mashal  Khan
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Muslim heritage?
     Reply #19 - June 22, 2019, 11:20 AM
    I think the prof is a bit too optimistic about forward thrust of humanity.

    how do educated students become a barbaric mob? why do they feel compelled to prove their allegiance to religion with murderous violence? how does any sane adult become a brainwashed pawn in someone else's game?

    https://nayadaur.tv/2019/06/jamaat-e-islami-and-brainwashing-a-personal-tragedy/

    the brainwashing has been ongoing in britain for 30yrs and I see no hope of reversing backward direction of travel. I suppose things may change when "heritage muslims" don't feel the need to identify themselves in contrast to an imagined orthodoxy.
  • Muslim heritage?
     Reply #20 - June 29, 2019, 07:22 AM
    Quote from: crumble on June 22, 2019, 11:20 AM
    I think the prof is a bit too optimistic about forward thrust of humanity.

    how do educated students become a barbaric mob? why do they feel compelled to prove their allegiance to religion with murderous violence? how does any sane adult become a brainwashed pawn in someone else's game?

    https://nayadaur.tv/2019/06/jamaat-e-islami-and-brainwashing-a-personal-tragedy/

    the brainwashing has been ongoing in britain for 30yrs and I see no hope of reversing backward direction of travel. I suppose things may change when "heritage muslims" don't feel the need to identify themselves in contrast to an imagined orthodoxy.

    that question has simple answer and the words are in your post .....

    Well Brain washing kids with so-called education  has the ability  to transform so-called educated students in to  barbaric mob that could kill absolutely unarmed innocent person....
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Muslim heritage?
     Reply #21 - July 30, 2019, 06:42 PM
    If someone trades on their background then it's fair to criticise their record on that basis.

    Quote from:
    The appointments of Javid and Patel show that minorities can succeed in Tory Britain, but only in exchange for abandoning their kind, writes Sophia Akram.


    https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/comment/2019/7/30/muslim-or-not-sajid-javid-does-not-represent-me
  • Muslim heritage?
     Reply #22 - September 17, 2019, 06:04 PM
    some good news from the liberal democrats - they will campaign to undo damage to uk citizenship rights.

    Quote from:
    Party members on Tuesday backed a motion taking away the Home Secretary’s unilateral right to deprive people of their citizenship.

    Instead, the Secretary of State would have to apply to a UK court to have citizenship rescinded.


    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/lib-dems-rid-home-secretary-110107229.html
  • Muslim heritage?
     Reply #23 - September 30, 2019, 08:54 PM
    turns out saj speaks punjabi like a china-man - how authentic as well as prescient!

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rdkPPGXSnoQ&time_continue=82
  • Muslim heritage?
     Reply #24 - November 01, 2019, 10:17 PM
    mister heritage saves the day again.

    Quote from:
    In an article headlined ‘If you do one thing this election, stop your kids voting’, Mr Liddle wrote: ‘My own choice of election date would be a day when universities are closed and Muslims are forbidden to do anything on pain of hell, or something. ‘There must be at least one day like that in the Muslim calendar, surely? That would deliver at least 40 seats to the Tories, I reckon.’

    Home Secretary Sajid Javid, who is of Muslim heritage, said Mr Liddle’s words were ‘not funny and not acceptable’.


    https://metro.co.uk/2019/11/01/muslims-condemn-rod-liddles-blatantly-racist-islamophobic-remarks-11027560/?ito=cbshare
  • Muslim heritage?
     Reply #25 - February 13, 2020, 12:25 PM
    an older thread:

    Sajid Javid is an ex-Muslim?
    https://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22108.0

    well, he's definitely an ex-chancellor as of today:

    Chancellor Sajid Javid in shock resignation over special advisers
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/cabinet-reshuffle-chancellor-sajid-javid-in-shock-resignation-over-special-advisers-1-5090054
  • Muslim heritage?
     Reply #26 - February 13, 2020, 12:34 PM
    Quote from: crumble on February 13, 2020, 12:25 PM
    an older thread:

    Sajid Javid is an ex-Muslim?
    https://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22108.0

    well, he's definitely an ex-chancellor as of today:

    Chancellor Sajid Javid in shock resignation over special advisers
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/cabinet-reshuffle-chancellor-sajid-javid-in-shock-resignation-over-special-advisers-1-5090054

    crumble links a post of  a_tea_potist  Cheesy

    hello crumble A Tea Potist  some times turns in to A beer potist  Cheesy ..

    but just curious to know from you .. How do you define ex-Muslim?? and how do you  differentiate say between an ex-Muslim and an Atheist Muslim??
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Muslim heritage?
     Reply #27 - February 13, 2020, 08:43 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 13, 2020, 12:34 PM
    but just curious to know from you .. How do you define ex-Muslim?? and how do you  differentiate say between an ex-Muslim and an Atheist Muslim??


    radical muslim, political muslim, traditional muslim, heritage muslim, cultural muslim, liberal muslim, secular muslim, atheist muslim, ex muslim... - it's all bollocks.

    no point in differentiating between variants of an imaginary identity. call yourself an englishman, a muslim or a satanist but don't buy into the delusion that they are distinct from one another.
  • Muslim heritage?
     Reply #28 - February 14, 2020, 09:51 AM
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 13, 2020, 12:34 PM

    Q- but just curious to know from you .. How do you define ex-Muslim?? and how do you  differentiate say between an ex-Muslim and an Atheist Muslim??

    Quote from: crumble on February 13, 2020, 08:43 PM
    ANS: radical muslim, political muslim, traditional muslim, heritage muslim, cultural muslim, liberal muslim, secular muslim, atheist muslim, ex muslim... - it's all bollocks.

    no point in differentiating between variants of an imaginary identity. call yourself an englishman, a muslim or a satanist but don't buy into the delusion that they are distinct from one another.


    perfect answer to evade the questions dear crumble..

    yes you are right crumble ., good point.,  ..... A Muslim is a Muslim.. no difference between two Muslims ..  it is all bullocks.. IT IS ALL BULLSHIT ...ALL MUSLIMS ARE MONOLITHIC SINGLE IDENTITY WITH SINGLE MINDSET .... ,, EVERY MUSLIM IN NON ISLAMIC NATIONS SHOULD BE TREATED IN THE SAME WAY...

    but for that i need to know,   how to define a Muslim dear crumble .. So in your neck of the world.,   Who is Muslim and who is NOT Muslim??

    Quote
    no point in differentiating between variants of an imaginary identity. call yourself an englishman, a muslim or a satanist but don't buy into the delusion that they are distinct from one another

    Oh I agree with that point   but why even  call myself as englishman, a muslim or a satanist ??

    Just a man... why even a man?  just a biological species  evolved from monkeys  some 5 millions years ago..

    errr,,,why even a biological species ?  stupid me.,  before the   evolution of  species it was all water ....carbon dioxide sunlight and some elements from  periodic table ..

    Damn I can go further down to that Bang bang .. big bang.,  some 13 billions years ago..... Oh shit it is all fields.. it is all NOTHING..........

    so dear crumble tell me  to differentiate people on the road .,   Who is Muslim and who is NOT Muslim?? .. How do we define a Muslim??   by birth?  just because born to parents who happened to be following THEIR Islam??
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Muslim heritage?
     Reply #29 - February 15, 2020, 01:35 AM
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 14, 2020, 09:51 AM

    Oh I agree with that point   but why even  call myself as englishman, a muslim or a satanist ??

    Just a man... why even a man?  just a biological species  evolved from monkeys  some 5 millions years ago..

    errr,,,why even a biological species ?  stupid me.,  before the   evolution of  species it was all water ....carbon dioxide sunlight and some elements from  periodic table ..

    Damn I can go further down to that Bang bang .. big bang.,  some 13 billions years ago..... Oh shit it is all fields.. it is all NOTHING..........


    unfortunately, those random fields insist on defining a relative state of existence, ie most people need a point of reference for their meaningless/meaningful lives.

    Quote from:
    so dear crumble tell me  to differentiate people on the road .,   Who is Muslim and who is NOT Muslim?? .. How do we define a Muslim??   by birth?  just because born to parents who happened to be following THEIR Islam??


    both everyone and no-one is a muslim. you need to follow incoherent rules to arrive at a more precise answer.
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