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 Topic: Salaam :) :) :) from a Bosnian (non)-Muslim

 (Read 4059 times)
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  • Salaam :) :) :) from a Bosnian (non)-Muslim
     OP - May 19, 2018, 09:18 PM

     Hello folks,

    I decided to register here because I'd like to discuss about troubles of ex-Muslims worldwide and Islamic/Muslim issues in general. Personally, I wouldn't label myself as an ex, but rather I'd say that I'm a non-religious Muslim. It may sound weird to many of you, but it is related to my background.

    To say that you are an ex-Muslim is practically a statement of apostasy: it's like saying "I denounce Islam, its creed and practices" and to proclaim its invalidity on a metaphysical level. Also, it somehow implies that you were a practicing and believing Muslim once, but got dissilusioned and abandoned it (although, rare are those who chose it willingly and consciously, most were pushed into it by their extremely religious families and found themselves praying and fasting one day without ever expressing their consent with it, so, whether you actually ever believed all that is highly questionable).

    I wouldn't label myself as an ex-Muslim (although I labeled my profile that way, since it is the most proximate position I hold on it) because I did neither of the two above. I've never renounced Islam publicly, not because I'm afraid of the persecution, but because of a pretty much unbelievable reason (from the perspective of most of the Islamic world): in my country, it's not even a thing. Here, many Muslims are Muslims only by name, some are superficially religious (like holding Islamic dogmas as true, but not practicing it, or maybe practicing some of it simbolically, like for Eid or Ramadan), or nominally Muslim, but practically deistic (like, believing in God in general, not Islamic way), while others are openly anti-religious and atheist. Converts to other religions are not so often found here, but those who are, rarely face any problems, even if they preach it to other Muslims. There's a whole palette of positions: from people being allergic to Islam or religion in general to radical Salafists who denounce the official Islamic Community of Bosnia and Herzegovina because it's all bid'ah Smiley Although the Salafis diverge from the Bosnian social pattern (their ideology was brought here only after the war in 90-ies), rest of Bosnian Muslims are predominantly secular (even the practicing ones), deeply Westernised and tolerant of other religions and cultures, but at the same time very respectful towards Islamic beliefs and practices (by it, I mean mostly prayer and fasting and stuff like that; Sharia punishment and similar things are here out of question, no way we as people would accept that in our country). So, we are most similar to ex-USSR Muslims (but probably more religious in average, communism has definitely secularised us, but atheism in Yugoslavia was not so violently promoted in as in USSR), or to Turkey, in lesser extent.

    So, I never actually stopped believing in Islam, but gradually figured out (in my early teens) that the very existence of God and the concept of religion is deeply illogical and rather a social convenience than eternal truth. Although I received some religious education and learned to respect those who were religious (my grandparents do pray often and they used to fast in Ramadan, while my parents are respectful to the tradition, culture and practices, but seldom involved in it), I simply never catched to it, but never had any issues about it nor i was annoyed by religious people. So, reasons for my irreligiosity are more of basic nature (like most atheists of Christian background) than specifically Islamic. It's simply because Islam is  reduced to mere religious practice here and lacks any political involvement (Imams often recommend people to vote for SDA, top Muslim right-wing party, but it's a secular party which is only identitarian about Bosnian Muslims issues, also, Catholic and Orthodox priests act similarly in Bosnia and surrounding countries; so, that doesn't count and hardly can be decribed as political Islamism).

    But, although I grew up with an atheist worldview, I often held apologetic stance on Islam. It took a lot of time for me to figure out that Islam has so many problems in core teachings, and I often understood criticism of Islam as a kind of "islamophobia" (anti-Muslim chauvinism). Also, I found it so humiliating to belong to a tradition that has so many pretty much shameful teachings, and I felt that I was loosing my dignity by accepting that. But when I finally admitted to myself that there is hardly any excuse for so many disturbing passages in Qur'an and ahadith (which are never mentioned by our imams, or when they can't be avoided, like when whole Qur'an is read and interpreted in Ramadan in our mosques, it's all extremely sugarcoated with loads of typical apologetic bulllsh*t). Also, I noticed that many other Bosnian Muslims who are of atheist conviction have same problem, we think of Islam like most Europeans think of Christianity, so you may  disbelieve, but still respect it as a part of your culture. The truth is shocking and depraving.

    So, I came here to see what are the experiences of people who actually suffered under religious tyranny in their countries (or homes) and to discuss about the future of Islam, Islamic countries and the World.
  • Salaam :) :) :) from a Bosnian (non)-Muslim
     Reply #1 - May 20, 2018, 06:02 AM

    Welcome!  parrot
  • Salaam :) :) :) from a Bosnian (non)-Muslim
     Reply #2 - May 21, 2018, 09:40 AM

    Hi and welcome  parrot

    there are other people from Bosnia as well. I live in Germany were many Bosnian people live and usually they are quite relaxed with religion, similar to many Turks. However, in Turkey it goes to a total different way now.
  • Salaam :) :) :) from a Bosnian (non)-Muslim
     Reply #3 - May 21, 2018, 03:24 PM

    Hi and welcome  parrot


    Thank you all.

    there are other people from Bosnia as well. I live in Germany were many Bosnian people live and usually they are quite relaxed with religion, similar to many Turks. However, in Turkey it goes to a total different way now.


    What are their relations with the rest of Muslim immigrants there? Are they seen as "bad Muslims" because of their loose religiosity or what? Would you say that they, despite their predominantly European appearance ( both racially and culturally), have religiously based disandvantages in their integration with other people in German society?

    Concerning Turkey, yeah, we had Erdogan's election campaign rally here yesterday Smiley A lot of Turks from Western Europe came, few local cucks got crazy excited about our "Sultan"  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy coming.
    What are your prognosis on Turkey? I don't actually see him as a hardcore islamist, rather than Islamic right-wing populist. Although Turkey will surely suffer censorship and other totalitarian-like stuff, I don't think it will ever again become Sharia country.
  • Salaam :) :) :) from a Bosnian (non)-Muslim
     Reply #4 - May 21, 2018, 06:46 PM

    Well, I think many Turks are adapting to the behavior of Arabs here and are getting more religious. But also some lose their connection to their religion entirely.

    Yes, I think there is a discrimination to some point if you have a Turkish or typical Islamic name. But it also depends on the company.

    I lost all hope that I had for Turkey. He is winning every election and he will continue to do so, because he is in control of the media, which makes his propaganda.

    Maybe Turkey will not get Sharia law but something close to it.
  • Salaam :) :) :) from a Bosnian (non)-Muslim
     Reply #5 - May 25, 2018, 03:08 PM

    Welcome Smiley
    I'm from Bosnia too, good to see another the Bosnian person here.
  • Salaam :) :) :) from a Bosnian (non)-Muslim
     Reply #6 - May 27, 2018, 01:55 AM

     parrot

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Salaam :) :) :) from a Bosnian (non)-Muslim
     Reply #7 - June 02, 2018, 02:26 PM

    Welcome Al-Razi26, have a rabbit!  bunny

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
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