Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


Qur'anic studies today
Today at 06:50 AM

Do humans have needed kno...
April 20, 2024, 12:02 PM

Lights on the way
by akay
April 19, 2024, 04:40 PM

اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
April 19, 2024, 12:50 PM

Do humans have needed kno...
April 19, 2024, 04:17 AM

What's happened to the fo...
by zeca
April 18, 2024, 06:39 PM

New Britain
April 18, 2024, 05:41 PM

Iran launches drones
April 13, 2024, 09:56 PM

عيد مبارك للجميع! ^_^
by akay
April 12, 2024, 04:01 PM

Eid-Al-Fitr
by akay
April 12, 2024, 12:06 PM

Mock Them and Move on., ...
January 30, 2024, 10:44 AM

Pro Israel or Pro Palesti...
January 29, 2024, 01:53 PM

Theme Changer

 Topic: Western Islam and Scholarly Shirk

 (Read 1876 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Western Islam and Scholarly Shirk
     OP - January 18, 2018, 01:50 AM

    I am sorry for this long rant and it is not my intention to offend. But I have personally had it. I tried to find the good in Islam. And there is some good, but there is a whole lot of negativity. I have been on this forum, while also trying to hold on to my Islam. I respected you all a great deal and loved to read your posts, but was trying to find a way to continue to honor my shahada. I was trying to be an open-minded Muslim, but it's not working.

    I was looking at some responses to questions from Yasir Qadhi. I notice whenever he gets to a sticky subject like voting, killing of apostates, domestic violence, secular governments, etc. he always says some version of "We live in the West so we don't need to worry about what the Quran/Hadith/Shariah says about these things". It reminds me of when I took my revert class and I asked a question about polygamy and my teacher said, "Well in the U.S. you can only have one wife legally anyway". It seems that the go to answer is always "Well we live in the West". It's like they are relieved that they don't live in a country run by Islamic Law. But that answer doesn't solve the fundamental problems on which these questions are based. So with all of that in mind, are they not all but admitting that there is something wrong with Islamic Law or at the very least something being wrong with the interpretation of Islamic Law? To me the logical person would ask the following questions:

    1. If Allah (swt) knows best, why is there not more peace and harmony in countries run strictly by Allah (swt)'s law?
    2. Why do I appear to be relieved that I don't live in an Islamic Country?
    3. If we do not have to worry about such questions because we live in the West, then don't such questions point to a flaw in Islamic Law?
    4. And my final question is...Do these YouTube Sheikhs truly believe what they are saying? They have to know deep down inside based upon their answers that this is some B.S. An Ex-Muslim has a YouTube video of Nouman Ali Kahn talking about the "perfection" of the Quran when talking about the hitting verse in the Quran. He said every ayat is "perfect". And no where in there did "NAK" explain why this ayat is perfect in the perfect Quran. He didn't even try the whole argument that the passage does not mean to physically hit but to walk away. He never addressed the fact that men often use this ayat to beat their wives. So domestic violence is perfect?!

    Then there are the mental gymnastics. You ask about female genital mutilation and you get a myriad of answers. "We don't practice it." "It's not Islamic". "It's MEANT to increase a woman's sexual pleasure because we don't do FGM but rather some other version of cutting". To which I want to ask, I have not seen anything in this religion being concerned about women, much less our sexual pleasure.But then you point out that Islamqa says that FGM is Fard (Obligatory) they say a whole bunch of stuff I don't understand and can't even begin to try to explain to you.

    And if you really back these folks in a corner where they can't answer a question, they say "Allah knows best!"

    THEN, there is the FEAR! All they talk about is FEAR. "FEAR Allah (swt)!" "FEAR the hellfire". "FEAR, FEAR, FEAR, FEAR". It's been my personal observation that you FEAR something, it leads to anger and that anger often leads to violence. And this may explain why they are angry all of the time. These are some of the angriest people I have every met. And truthfully, I have become a very nasty person at times. I have said things that am not proud off because I'm pissed off all the damn time.

    THEN, there is the lie (my word for it) where they tell you that Islam gives you a relationship with just you and Allah (swt), not a middle man. Actually, having studied many religions, Islam has more middle men between me and God than anyone. And not only that, the relationship between me and God is some of the most complex mess I have ever seen. In fact, I don't care what anyone says, the scholars are worshipped. You can't do anything without getting guidance from the Imam or Sheikh and the answer they often give you is often based on interpretations by scholars or writings from Centuries ago.

    I became a Muslim in part because a family member ran off and became a Salafi. We (several other family member took shahada) were trying to save said family member and feared he would cut himself off from us. I thought I could cling to the spirituality of Islam. But that is drowned out by the people. And had only saw the "beauty" of Islam until this mess came along. So I earnestly am trying to look at the spirituality. But the Muslim Community is annoying, no offense. Everyone is in everyone else's business in the name of "advising". And they are quite manipulative. It's disgusting. I literally had someone at the masjid tell me that my bun was too big. So God has nothing better to do than to worry about how big my bun is underneath my scarf?

    Which brings me to my next issue.... They have reduced God to this very petty entity. He (yes, I am using the pronoun "he" because, no offense, only a man could come up with this mess)... He worries about how I use the bathroom, if I take a picture, if I listen to music, if I go to the movies, if put on oils, if put on lipstick. And what's worse, all of these things are more important than how you treat people (at least that's the impression I get).  And they never tell you in the outset that you have to give up music, movies, and TV. You can be the kindest, gentlest, sweetest, most giving person in the world and still go to the hellfire because you put on lipstick. At least that is the impression I get by the way they act. And then they turn around and say, "Allah made this religion easy for us". If it is so damn easy, you don't need to say it's easy!

    And then they say, "You are giving into your desires". Damn right I am! Didn't Allah give me desires in the first place? And culture, music, art, literature are often ahead of the curve when it comes to social change, which is my guess as to the real reason these things are "haram". Someone didn't want people to be too enlightened about the world around them so they made damn near all art "haram". But that's my guess. You can't have people thinking too much because they might do something crazy like think for themselves and have a revolution. It appears there is no such thing as balance in Islam.

    I take my spirituality seriously. And I stay a Muslim because I don't want to think badly of all Muslims because of these horrible experiences I have had. I thought my brother's cult was the problem. But some of these beliefs seem to be common to Islam as a whole. You kind of run into it everywhere you go. The answers to the questions are pretty similar. And where there is disagreement they say "Scholars have different opinions on these things".

    I am getting to a point where I HATE Islam with a passion. Yet, I am still trying to stay Muslim because I don't want HATE another religion, especially one that has 1.6 Billion people. And I am angry because, as I said before, it turned a very sweet caring person I know into to something unrecognizable and hateful. I tried to come to some sort of peace with Islam and the Muslim community. But there is no room for individual interpretation and connection with Allah (swt). I'm usually fine with the religion when I am by myself. But I get around other Muslims and I want to deck them. Invariably someone will criticize something in the name of "advising" me. And Oh, It's there "duty" to "advise" and be such obnoxious asses.

    I had Muslim friends and now I look at them completely differently than I did before. I can't believe that they are a part of such hate.

    I'm a huge Star Trek fan and these folks behave like the Borg. Every time someone says, "Allah knows best", I hear is "We are the Borg. You will be assimilated".

    I came into this thinking about Rumi. I have been reading his poetry for years. Where is the Rumi version of Islam?

    I've tried to stick it out, but I am beyond disgusted and annoyed.

    Again, I did not want to be offensive to anyone. But I needed to get all of this out.



    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men (and women) to do nothing" -Edmund Burke
  • Western Islam and Scholarly Shirk
     Reply #1 - January 18, 2018, 10:28 AM

    I am sorry for this long rant and it is not my intention to offend. But I have personally had it. I tried to find the good in Islam. And there is some good, but
     there is a whole lot of negativity. I have been on this forum, while also trying to hold on to my Islam. I respected you all a great deal and loved to read your posts, but was trying to find a way to continue to honor my shahada. I was trying to be an open-minded Muslim, but it's not working. 
    I was looking at some responses to questions from Yasir Qadhi.
     I notice whenever he gets to a sticky subject like voting, killing of apostates, domestic violence, secular governments, etc. he always says some version of "We live in the West so we don't need to worry about what the Quran/Hadith/Shariah says about these things". It reminds me of when I took my revert class and I asked a question about polygamy and my teacher said, "Well in the U.S. you can only have one wife legally anyway". It seems that the go to answer is always "Well we live in the West". It's like they are relieved that they don't live in a country run by Islamic Law. But that answer doesn't solve the fundamental problems on which these questions are based.
    So with all of that in mind, are they not all but admitting that there is something wrong with Islamic Law or at the very least something being wrong with the interpretation of Islamic Law? To me the logical person would ask the following questions:

    Quote
    1. If Allah (swt) knows best, why is there not more peace and harmony in countries run strictly by Allah (swt)'s law?
    2. Why do I appear to be relieved that I don't live in an Islamic Country?
    3. If we do not have to worry about such questions because we live in the West, then don't such questions point to a flaw in Islamic Law?
    4. And my final question is...Do these YouTube Sheikhs truly believe what they are saying? They have to know deep down inside based upon their answers that this is some B.S.

     
    An Ex-Muslim has a YouTube video of Nouman Ali Kahn talking about the "perfection" of the Quran when talking about the hitting verse in the Quran. He said every ayat is "perfect". And no where in there did "NAK" explain why this ayat is perfect in the perfect Quran. He didn't even try the whole argument that the passage does not mean to physically hit but to walk away. He never addressed the fact that men often use this ayat to beat their wives. So domestic violence is perfect?! 

    Then there are the mental gymnastics. You ask about female genital mutilation and you get a myriad of answers. "We don't practice it." "It's not Islamic". "It's MEANT to increase a woman's sexual pleasure because we don't do FGM but rather some other version of cutting". To which I want to ask, I have not seen anything in this religion being concerned about women, much less our sexual pleasure.But then you point out that Islamqa says that FGM is Fard (Obligatory) they say a whole bunch of stuff I don't understand and can't even begin to try to explain to you.

    And if you really back these folks in a corner where they can't answer a question, they say "Allah knows best!"

    THEN, there is the FEAR! All they talk about is FEAR. "FEAR Allah (swt)!" "FEAR the hellfire". "FEAR, FEAR, FEAR, FEAR". It's been my personal observation that you FEAR something, it leads to anger and that anger often leads to violence. And this may explain why they are angry all of the time. These are some of the angriest people I have every met. And truthfully, I have become a very nasty person at times. I have said things that am not proud off because I'm pissed off all the damn time.

    THEN, there is the lie (my word for it) where they tell you that Islam gives you a relationship with just you and Allah (swt), not a middle man. Actually, having studied many religions, Islam has more middle men between me and God than anyone. And not only that, the relationship between me and God is some of the most complex mess I have ever seen. In fact, I don't care what anyone says, the scholars are worshipped. You can't do anything without getting guidance from the Imam or Sheikh and the answer they often give you is often based on interpretations by scholars or writings from Centuries ago.

    I became a Muslim in part because a family member ran off and became a Salafi. We (several other family member took shahada) were trying to save said family member and feared he would cut himself off from us. I thought I could cling to the spirituality of Islam. But that is drowned out by the people. And had only saw the "beauty" of Islam until this mess came along. So I earnestly am trying to look at the spirituality. But the Muslim Community is annoying, no offense. Everyone is in everyone else's business in the name of "advising". And they are quite manipulative. It's disgusting. I literally had someone at the masjid tell me that my bun was too big. So God has nothing better to do than to worry about how big my bun is underneath my scarf?

    Which brings me to my next issue.... They have reduced God to this very petty entity. He (yes, I am using the pronoun "he" because, no offense, only a man could come up with this mess)... He worries about how I use the bathroom, if I take a picture, if I listen to music, if I go to the movies, if put on oils, if put on lipstick. And what's worse, all of these things are more important than how you treat people (at least that's the impression I get).  And they never tell you in the outset that you have to give up music, movies, and TV. You can be the kindest, gentlest, sweetest, most giving person in the world and still go to the hellfire because you put on lipstick. At least that is the impression I get by the way they act. And then they turn around and say, "Allah made this religion easy for us". If it is so damn easy, you don't need to say it's easy!

    And then they say, "You are giving into your desires". Damn right I am! Didn't Allah give me desires in the first place? And culture, music, art, literature are often ahead of the curve when it comes to social change, which is my guess as to the real reason these things are "haram". Someone didn't want people to be too enlightened about the world around them so they made damn near all art "haram". But that's my guess. You can't have people thinking too much because they might do something crazy like think for themselves and have a revolution. It appears there is no such thing as balance in Islam.

    I take my spirituality seriously. And I stay a Muslim because I don't want to think badly of all Muslims because of these horrible experiences I have had. I thought my brother's cult was the problem. But some of these beliefs seem to be common to Islam as a whole. You kind of run into it everywhere you go. The answers to the questions are pretty similar. And where there is disagreement they say "Scholars have different opinions on these things".

    I am getting to a point where I HATE Islam with a passion. Yet, I am still trying to stay Muslim because I don't want HATE another religion, especially one that has 1.6 Billion people. And I am angry because, as I said before, it turned a very sweet caring person I know into to something unrecognizable and hateful. I tried to come to some sort of peace with Islam and the Muslim community. But there is no room for individual interpretation and connection with Allah (swt). I'm usually fine with the religion when I am by myself. But I get around other Muslims and I want to deck them. Invariably someone will criticize something in the name of "advising" me. And Oh, It's there "duty" to "advise" and be such obnoxious asses.

    I had Muslim friends and now I look at them completely differently than I did before. I can't believe that they are a part of such hate.

    I'm a huge Star Trek fan and these folks behave like the Borg. Every time someone says, "Allah knows best", I hear is "We are the Borg. You will be assimilated".

    I came into this thinking about Rumi. I have been reading his poetry for years. Where is the [u][b]Rumi [/b][/u]version of Islam?

    I've tried to stick it out, but I am beyond disgusted and annoyed.

    Again, I did not want to be offensive to anyone. But I needed to get all of this out.



    Hello Gnostic   lots of  new year rant but simple questions., well  i say    it is easy to answer those questions if  we understand  what is allah and who is allah of Islam.,  but before I answer them  let me watch this

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kabul-afghanistan-capital-under-siege-while-americas-longest-war-rages-on/

    which comes from that BSI scholar dr. Yasir Qadhi   country ..   also let me drop a link here as you mentioned a important person in your post

    http://www.dar-al-masnavi.org/about.html

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Western Islam and Scholarly Shirk
     Reply #2 - January 18, 2018, 12:09 PM

    Wasn't Yasir Qadhi born in the U.S. though (or came here really young) and his parents from Afghanistan? But the point is, they left. So how does he think "Well, we live in the west so we don't have to worry about this" is a sufficient answer to fundamental questions about Islam? Essentially, he is saying "Thank God these 'kuffars' have instituted laws to protect us from our religion". That makes no sense. Could it possibly be that these 'kuffars' have something to teach you and point to a need for your to have some kind of modernization to your religion? And I use the word 'kuffar' to present their perspective, not to be derogatory. I can't stand that word and how it is used within the Islamic Community.

    My personal observation...having grown up Christian is that Islamic founders have put the religion in a box that prevents it from growing with the times. The authors of the Bible gave future generations a way out. The authors of the Bible never claimed that the Bible was the direct word of God. They claimed that the Bible was "inspired" by God. This allowed for changes to be made for the times because they could say..."At the time this was written, this that or the other was going on". Whereas the writers of the Quran (yes, I said writers because to me that makes the most sense)...the writers of the Quran didn't say it was inspired by Allah (swt). They say it is the direct word of Allah (swt) that is unchangeable through time and space. In my very humble opinion, the decision to do this planted the seed for Islam's destruction from the very beginning and it's surprising it's lasted this long. Perhaps it lasted this long because up until fairly recently, Islam was mutable and open to change until these Salafis came along.

    As for the mess we created in Afghanistan....Of course the United States if more willing to fight people with our powerful weapons than the fight a sociopathic ideology. He spoke about the ideology in the at the end, but the focus is on weapons, weapons and more weapons. And the U.S. thinks these are people that can be negotiated with? Talking to them is like throwing a rock at a brick wall, reinforced by cement the fortified with steel. Per usual, my country is focused on the wrong thing and doesn't know what they are doing.

    Thanks for the link to book on Rumi. I am interested in reading that.  thnkyu

    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men (and women) to do nothing" -Edmund Burke
  • Western Islam and Scholarly Shirk
     Reply #3 - January 21, 2018, 12:29 AM

    Wasn't Yasir Qadhi born in the U.S. though (or came here really young) and his parents from Afghanistan?

    hello    Gnostic    yes...   Mr. Dr.  Yasir Qadhi  was born in USA and his parents are Migrants from Pakistan .,  He and his family is nothing to do with Afghanistan

    Quote
    But the point is, they left. So how does he think "Well, we live in the west so we don't have to worry about this" is a sufficient answer to fundamental questions about Islam? Essentially, he is saying "Thank God these 'kuffars' have instituted laws to protect us from our religion". That makes no sense. Could it possibly be that these 'kuffars' have something to teach you and point to a need for your to have some kind of modernization to your religion? And I use the word 'kuffar' to present their perspective, not to be derogatory. I can't stand that word and how it is used within the Islamic Community.

      Who cares what he thinks or any   one thinks on Islam??  why worry about fools?  Read Quran....  Read Hadith/Sunnah ..Read Islamic history  and makeup your own judgement  on Islam.

    Quote
    My personal observation...having grown up Christian is that Islamic founders have put the religion in a box that prevents it from growing with the times. The authors of the Bible gave future generations a way out. The authors of the Bible never claimed that the Bible was the direct word of God. They claimed that the Bible was "inspired" by God. This allowed for changes to be made for the times because they could say..."At the time this was written, this that or the other was going on". Whereas the writers of the Quran (yes, I said writers because to me that makes the most sense)...the writers of the Quran didn't say it was inspired by Allah (swt). They say it is the direct word of Allah (swt) that is unchangeable through time and space. In my very humble opinion, the decision to do this planted the seed for Islam's destruction from the very beginning and it's surprising it's lasted this long. Perhaps it lasted this long because up until fairly recently, Islam was mutable and open to change until these Salafis came along.

    Gnostic you are correct in your assessment of of so-called religious books ...  All these so-called  scriptures/religious books are books of their time and must have written by someone .. Often more than one person is written all  those faith /story  books. And that goes to Quran.. Bible.... OT & NT and and gillion other books of faiths    that you see at this link    



    those who are interested in faiths/faith stories please  click the above JPEG  and read or down load them to your PC

    Quote
    As for the mess we created in Afghanistan....Of course the United States if more willing to fight people with our powerful weapons than the fight a sociopathic ideology. He spoke about the ideology in the at the end, but the focus is on weapons, weapons and more weapons. And the U.S. thinks these are people that can be negotiated with? Talking to them is like throwing a rock at a brick wall, reinforced by cement the fortified with steel. Per usual, my country is focused on the wrong thing and doesn't know what they are doing.

    Well  in the history of US of A .. it never did any thing good  specially in those covert operations/wars

    Quote
    Thanks for the link to book on Rumi. I am interested in reading that.  thnkyu

      you are welcome  and here is another book for you



    Mystical Poems of Rumi   by Jalal al-Din Rumi

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Western Islam and Scholarly Shirk
     Reply #4 - January 21, 2018, 06:14 AM

    Thank you for the response. I am going to read the book on Rumi. I have loved his poetry for over 20 years.

    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men (and women) to do nothing" -Edmund Burke
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »